news-t7-t10-v230One topic that came up on the Podcast was the issue of Torment 10, and if the higher difficulty was worth the effort. Experience greatly increases on the higher torment difficulty levels that are added to the game in Patch 2.3.0, but how do the other benefits such as higher legendary drop rate, more cache materials, better KeyWarden KeyMachine drops, more material drops, etc, stack up?

    This is, of course, a very premature evaluation since the PTR is only a week old and we’ll likely see a lot of adjustments to drop rate and rewards over the remainder of the patch testing. Furthermore, with the +2000% legendary drop rate buff, it’s impossible to judge how much higher difficulty levels add to your loot, since even on T1, virtually every Elite and chest and goblin drops at least one legendary. That said…

    Is Torment X Worth It?

    My initial impression from the PTR was that T10 (TX?) wasn’t worth it. Starting off on the PTR, my Demon Hunter was geared enough that T7 and even T8 didn’t feel much/any slower to clear than T6 does on live, especially once I got Kanai’s Cube and improved my performance with full time double Unity and Hexing Pants. (Sadly/oddly, there’s no weapon buff that substantially boosts the physical form of Natalya’s.) T10 felt slower, though.

    Not much more dangerous (I’m playing HC, but with the double Unity buff I wasn’t feeling much pain), and trash mobs still folded up almost instantly, but Elites and Goblins took noticeably longer to kill, and I had to kite/spin around quite a bit during boss confrontations, especially if I missed or didn’t crit some 6 billion killshot with my Crashing Rain proc. Which made T10 not worth it, when I could have cleared twice as fast on T8.

    PTR Patch 2.3.0 buff.

    PTR Patch 2.3.0 buff.

    YMMV of course, especially if you’re playing softcore and can gear for much higher damage… but as I tested more thoroughly, I found there were other drop bonuses that made T10 more valuable than T8, and that made T8 more valuable than T6. Bear in mind that T1-T6 jump the equivalent of 3 GRs each, but T7-T10 jump 5 GRs each, so T6 = GR25, T7 = GR30, T8 = GR35, T9 = GR40, and T10 = GR45.

    Note: All % figures below are estimates based on preliminary play testing; hopefully Blizzard will release exact numbers but until then take these estimates with grains of salt:

  • Torment 6: +1600% EXP, 1 Death’s Breath per elite*, 1 Rift Key per Guardian, 2 Horadric Cache materials, 50% chance of 1 Machine from KWs, 100% chance of 1 Organ per Uber.
  • Torment 7: +1900% EXP, 5% chance of 2 DBs per Elite*, 5% chance for 2 Rift Keys per Guardian, 3 Horadric Cache materials, 60% (?) chance of 1 machine from KWs, 50% (?) chance of 2 Organs per Uber.
  • Torment 8: +2300% EXP, 10% chance of 2 DBs per Elite*, 15% chance of 2 Rift Keys per Guardian, 3 Horadric Cache materials, 70% (?) chance of 1 machine from KWs, 90% (?) chance of 2 organs per Uber.
  • Torment 9:+2750% EXP, 20% chance of 2 DBs per Elite*, 25% chance of 2 Rift Keys per Guardian, 4 Horadric Cache materials, 80% (?) chance of 1 machine from KWs / 10% chance of 2 machines from KWs, 50% chance of 3 organs per Uber.
  • Torment 10:+3300% EXP, 33% chance of 2 DBs per Elite, 50% chance of 2 Rift Keys per Guardian, 4 Horadric Cache materials, chance for bonus Cache legs**, 90% (?) chance of 1 machine from KWs / 33% chance of 2 machines from KWs, 90% chance of 3 organs per Uber.
  • * You may also get double Death’s Breaths from golden chests and Goblins.
    ** On T10 I got 2 DiabloWikiRoRGs from the same A1 cache, and 2 DiabloWikiCoven’s Criterion from the same A2 cache. Bug or RNG or Feature?

    To summarize, as you go up to T8 and higher, your chances of getting double Death’s Breaths drops increase, you’ll find more Rift Keys per Guardian, you’ll almost always see 1 Machine from each KeyWarden and sometimes get 2, and you’ll get more Organs per Uber. Plus much higher exp

    Click through for full Torment EXP scaling details, why Hellfire Amulets are so much faster to make playing T10, plus disclaimers.

    Torment 7-10=+5 GRs.

    Torment 7-10 = +5 GRs.

    Infernal Machine parts increase greatly on higher Torment levels

    I did the Ubers (for the DiabloWikiInfernal Machine) twice on T8 and got 1/2/2/2 and 2/2/2/2 organs from the 4. In two games on T10 I got 2/3/3/3 and 3/3/3/2, from the 4. This means that in a single T10 game, you will usually be able to make 2 Hellfire Amulets, and will often be part way to a third or even fourth. From killing the KWs and doing the Ubers in a single game! (In the current live game on Torment 6 you can, at best, get 1/4 of the materials required to obtain a HFA in a single game.)

    Blood Shards per Guardian also increase on T7-T10. The current game caps it at ~100 on T6, but it seems to increase 20-30 per Torment above T6. (Current PTR Blood Shard rewards are doubled, so it’s hard to say for sure what the T7-T10 shard drops are.)

    Beware PTR Changes

    The biggest issue is that Blizzard can and probably will tweak the drop rates and reward flow during the PTR testing.

    Also, as mentioned above, it’s impossible to estimate leg drop rates while the +2000% community buff is active. Trying to tell the diff in leg drop rates above T5 now is like trying to measure humidity underwater. The same is also somewhat true of experience, since the community buff has all EXP +300%, so it floods in faster than you can track it anecdotally.

    Also, with the endless queues to play on the PTR, our testing time has been limited, so the figures above are all anecdotal. I’ve done 2 games each (all or most of the act bounties + some Rifts + Infernal Machine) on T7, T8, and T10, but haven’t actually played T9 at all, so the figures above are just estimations. Also, without playing dozens of games, it’s impossible to drill down into the RNG for unusual events like KeyWardens. In 2 games on T8 I got 7/8 keys, all single drops. And in 2 games on T10 I got keys from all 8, plus 3 double keys.

    That said, there are definitely benefits to pushing up past T6. Which difficulty you’ll find most rewarding varies by your gear, class, build, etc, and by what you want to gain. If you’re just after fast killing, Rift Keys, and some exp/legs, you might be better off doing a bunch of speed Rifts in T8. If you want Hellfire Amulets you want to play on T10 to get more machine drops and Organs from the Ubers. If you’re after Horadric Cache materials, you’ll want to do T8 or higher to be sure you get the maximum 4 mats per cache.

    And once again, bear in mind we’re a week into the PTR and most of these values will be tweaked during further testing.

    What do you guys think of the varied rewards for T7 and higher? Do you like the idea of different sweet spots for different styles of play? Will you soldier through T10 no matter what, because epeen?

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