The Diablo Podcast #80: TL2 vs. D3 Features + v1.0.5 Preview


Flux, Wolfpaq, and Xanth compare key features in Torchlight 2 to Diablo 3. The item system, character customization, and much more are handled very differently in TL2, with pros and cons. Also includes a D3 v1.0.5 patch preview.

Times and topics listed below are merely a rough guideline, as the flow of conversation twists and turns.

  • 0:00 — Introductions, TL2 launch vs. v1.0.5 patch preview. Recent Dave Brevik Diablo creator coworker praise.
  • 6:40 — Torchlight 2 difficulty and basics. The horror of Elite/Hardcore mode.
  • 12:00 — TL2 deep character customization and permanence vs. Diablo III accessibility and freespecs. Pros and cons.
  • 19:00 — Skill points. In TL2 better customization. Could/should skill points be re-incorporated into Diablo III?
  • 26:00 — Items. The items system is the most common complaint about Diablo III. How is it handled in TL2? Why is it not good in Diablo III?
  • 42:00 — final thoughts on TL2 vs. Diablo III.
  • 45:30 — Diablo III v1.0.5 patch preview. Monster Power issues, Infernal Machine speculation,
  • 50:10 — class skill changes. demon hunter new build options.
  • 58:00 — Does Diablo III still need more incentives to play in parties?
  • 60:00 — final thoughts on Diablo III and the paragon system. When will v1.05 be released? Will we get PvP in Diablo III this year? Moo. Moo. Moo-ooo.
  • As a programming note, the DiabloPodcast.com site is no more, and going forward, all podcasts will be presented here on Diablo.IncGamers.com in the news.

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Comments

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  1. As I cannot vote on the poll (IT’S A CONSPIRACY)

    4) Zero interest. This is a Diablo site. Stahp.

    • Sure, this is a Diablo site. And Torchlight is the game that actually carries over the essence, fun, gameplay and spirit of Diablo, not ‘Diablo III’.

  2. Regarding the TL2 difficulty settings. You can’t change for an existing character but if you start a new game with a new character.

  3. is the Ring reward Bind on Account or Bind on Character ?

    if it’s BOA then what’s the incentive for doing it more than once ?

    • Hmmm…

      They better sell for a lot to vendors.

    • Because, like most items in Diablo 3, it has 4 random properties. There are about 6 useful affixes in this game, with a wide variability. So you can get a ring with +crit, +crit damage, +AR, +LoH or you can get a ring with .5% chance to freeze, +70 armor, +32 strength, +200 more life on health globe pickup.

    • Bind on Account, meaning that it can be passed to different characters on the same account, but not traded or sold (It’ll be nice to have at least one item in the game that people have to earn instead of just buying on the AH).

      If that data-mined “Hellfire Ring” is for real [ http://d3db.com/assets/hellfire.png ], the core stat roll will make each one basically class specific (except for Vitality). If it were Bind on Pick-up you would just be screwed if you picked up one that was +200 INT when playing a DH or a Barb. At least with BoA it can go to another character on the same account that could actually make good use of it.

      The incentive to do the Infernal Machine again would be to get one for a specific class, or one for each class. Kind of like the Hellfire Torch from D2/LoD. And with those four random magic properties, you are still going to need to get lucky to some degree. Which means more incentive to play through multiple times, trying for better affixes/rolls. You can have more than one per account, but you can only have one equipped on each character at a time. Just like the Hellfire Torch.

  4. I like that Blizzard tried something new. Skill trees were never my favorite part of D2. D1 didn’t have skill trees, D2 evolved and used them, D3 evolved to what it is now. That said, I do miss character permanence. I think D3’s system should be further evolved to incorporate some skill tree system.

    The basic idea is, hey you have access to all skills by lvl 60. You’ve seen them all, you’ve had a chance to play with each and explore your options. Now for the end game. You will now start to earn skill points for every paragon level. You can lvl up the base skill and/or specific rune levels. There is NO respeccing these power ups. EVER… You will need these lvl ups to make it thru our new end game content.

    End game content, PoE’s random map generator is the one brilliant idea I’ve seen in that game. They took Torchlight’s idea of maps (which I guess I first saw in Mythos) and made it even more interesting. A good idea is a good idea and I would love to see it in D3.

    Make more events like the incoming Infernal Machine.

    Endless dungeon would be welcome too.

    Another thing I’d like to see is Boss Levels. For each lvl of the boss you beat, you gain access to the next level. example: So I play act 4 inferno. beat diablo for first time. This unlocks lvl 2 for diablo. I can then create a new game and put diablo on lvl 1 or 2. They could set this up to 100 levels for each boss. (or maybe even more) It’s just a matter of, how high can you go? Of course, each lvl of this boss could give you greater chances of good loot. This probably breaks the economy but at this point I don’t give a shit about the economy. I want a fun long term game first and foremost.

    I agree on the need to fix items. I think one quick fix would be, allow dex/int/str to increase dps for every class. Not at a 1:1 ratio tho. Keep str as main for Barb. But allow dex/int to do a 2:1 ratio of increased dps. This would greatly increase the value of those items that don’t have our main stat. It would let us weigh the benefits of more dodge/resists and still get “some” dps increase.

    • wow…sorry for the wall of text…but the more i listened the more ideas i had.

    • Lots of fun ideas. I’m actually shocked that D3 doesn’t have a random map generator, and on top of that, the system they implemented is one of the most linear I’ve played. You run the same exact map layouts, with the same exact mobs, over and over again.

      • you know..out of all the things wrong with D3, you are right on this. And it is probably the one thing they can’t fix easily. Items/skills/end game they can continue to improve. But fixing the map generation? They dug themselves a hole with that. I know what they tried to do. They tried making pre-built rooms and randomly putting them together with halls. Problem is, for that to work you have to have TONS of pre-built rooms to randomly choose from. Or else you have what D3 is now. Very very very recognizable maps. And that is so counter to what Diablo ever had.

        T2 on the other hand, seems to do a damn fine job of dungeon creation. Graphic style aside, they is much more than just halls connected to rooms…there is visual depth, random height terrains, random terrain, and secret treasure rooms to name a few features. I haven’t played enough quite yet to know just how well they did in terms of preventing players from recognizing a layout, but thus far it looks quite solid.

  5. I got into the Torchlight II beta and played it through once, and then I got the demo and played through it once. I still had memories of how repetitive torchlight 1 was and I found the memory a real deterrent for me.
    BUT, I played through the demo for the SECOND and THIRD time and tried some new things out, such as starting out on a different difficulty level and using different skills.
    A big changes from the beta were the skill tiers. I really like these. They introduce a really fun challenge as I get that 5th skill point and try and decide whether to up one of my current skills to a tier bonus or put it a different skill.
    Being able to respect the last 3 skill points spent feels like the right amount. I can’t remember who said it, but approaching arpgs as a rogue-like game really helped me see these kinds of games in a different light. I think Diablo III got away from that idea to an extent. I feel that arpgs are meant to be played through once per character, have real consequences to how I build a character, and then replayed again with another character trying something different. To me, this is fun.
    I think the further zoomed out view, compared to Torchlight 1 is a real improvement and helps to break it away from the ‘toy-like’ feel the first game had. The models, lighting, sounds, fx, are all big improvements over the first game. If you still think the game is perhaps a bit too ‘toy-like’, I would suggest turning off rim lighting. For me, I think it made a difference.
    Night and day and weather fx were really nice to see again in an arpg, and so was listening to Matt Uelmens soundtrack.
    I’ve still only been playing around with the demo and haven’t an extensive amount of experience with the loot which can be found through the extent of the game, but have already found some Uniques, Rares, Sets, and other things which have been a lot of fun. I found a really nice ‘gem-thing’ to socket into an item. I can’t remember the name, otherwise I’d share, but it was also a unique. That was cool. I wish they had unique gems and other varied socket items in DIII. As more and more other arpgs start to enter the market, perhaps this will help the DIII developers become more creative with their items too.
    So, to sum up, I wasn’t too interested in Torchlight II, but now, after seeing the changes since beta, and having played around with it for a few more hours, I’m actually leaning more towards making the purchase.
    If I were to compare DIII and Torchlight II to musical instruments, DIII would be a huge organ, although perhaps a bit out of tune with more stops than actual keys. Torchlight II would be a baby grand piano which rocks!

  6. Character permanence doesn’t make sense for d3 because the whole experience is geared for max level play. All items under max level are boring and do not beg you to make a new character like they did in D2. I made new characters in D2 primarily to try out new items and have fun with the overpowered lowbie uniques. It was also fun to ‘quest’ through the game and get waypoints. It was a welcome change from endless pit/meph/eldritch/wsk/ etc runs.

    D3 is anti alt. One playthrough and you get to replay quests ad nauseum, whether you want to or not. Its the same linear experience at all levels. There is no change of pace when making a new barb. Its the same game with more limited skill choices.

  7. Love the Podcaaaststss!!!!! +!!!113122111w1 v12ev d1qw2dq

  8. Cool Torchlight Podcast, I stopped listening after few minutes…

    • not very intelligent are you ?

      45:30 — Diablo III v1.0.5 patch preview. Monster Power issues, Infernal Machine speculation,

      50:10 — class skill changes. demon hunter new build options.

      58:00 — Does Diablo III still need more incentives to play in parties?

      60:00 — final thoughts on Diablo III and the paragon system. When will v1.05 be released? Will we get PvP in Diablo III this year? Moo. Moo. Moo-ooo.

  9. After playing TL2 for a couple hours, it is clear that TL2 will never be as good as D3. But also….D3 will never be as good as TL2. Both games have major strengths and weaknesses in very different areas. TL2’s biggest strengths are D3’s biggest weaknesses and D3’s biggest strengths are TL2’s biggest weaknesses. What we need, what we dream of, is Diablolight 5.

    • except that tl2 is better than d3 in just about every way..
      you actually *find* good loot. the world is truly randomized, and so many more other small things that just makes d3 look like a cheap console action game..

      • Except that there are “so many more other small things” that make TL2 look like the low budget game it is.

        • you saying so just proves you havent actually played it..

        • Problem is blizz screwed up the big things. I care about the small things less. As someone put it in a comment would be nice if blizz learned from all those arpgs coming out nowadays to make d3 better. It’s an ironic thing, blizz used to be trend maker not follower… :/ they are lagging behind with something they used to be best in. It is sad, maybe the right people is seeing this up there too, don’t know for sure with people like Jay Wilson or this Kotick fag…

  10. Legendarys will never drop often enough and they’ll never be good because it dilutes Blizzard’s income. They want to make money off uniques not legendary items. It is always all about the RMAH.

  11. just a heads up, there are legendary items in TL2, they have more stats than the uniques that drops alot. They are RED colored

  12. So the economy in D3 is in the tank because it’s so easy to buy good items in the AH compared to the difficulty of finding them yourself. We want to be excited to find items! We want to look forward to finding items! Here is an elegant solution: Give all items a Finders Bonus. Every item you find should have one extra randomly rolled stat generated just like all the others stats (meaning dependant on item type and level). This extra stat is labeled on the item as the Finders Bonus (or whatever Blizz wants to call it) and this bonus is only available to the original finder of the item. As soon as the item is traded or sold on the AH the stat would disappear. Whatya think Flux? If people like this idea please forward it to Blizz! 🙂

  13. Good schtuff but Flux, FYI unlike what was stated right at the beginning you’re not at diablopodcast.com anymore. 🙂

  14. No matter if some one searches for his necessary thing,
    thus he/she needs to be available that in detail, therefore that thing is maintained over here.

  15. stop crapping on Strafe, i love that skill, use it for farming, i can strafe my way through act 1, and barely act 2 inferno. do not hate the strafe!

    and omg 65% – 75% is HUGGGEEEEEEEEEEE. i might use a different rune than drift.

    and I AM COMPLETELY SERIOUS STRAFE 4 LIFE!!!! you will see my drifting with strafe more in act 3 (although in the public games they have a ton of hp and i tend to have to hit preparation to recover my hate.)

  16. Hi to all, how is the whole thing, I think every one is getting more from this site, and your views are
    nice for new viewers.

  17. FYI episode #80 is still not visible in the iTunes feed (http://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/diablopodcast-com/id432810926) as of 1:49pm EST 2012/09/25

  18. There was some talk about the TL2 loot system, but no one mentioned the loot upgrade mechanic. In TL1 you can upgrade your loot — A LOT. But it comes with a special gambler’s risk that the loot can lose all bonuses. This is a major contribution to the economy. It is a mechanism that essentially does the same job as durability, but with player permission.

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