The Diablo 3 Podcast #127: Magic Find Removal Debate and Cursed Chests


Monstrous and Neinball join Flux to debate the removal of Magic Find, more varied play options, tricky new legendary crafting materials, and share stories of the new Cursed Chests feature.

No mention of the Release Date on this since we recorded it Wednesday night, before the news broke. Not sure what we’d say about that on a podcast anyway, other than, “Wow, already?”

This is part two of the conversation began in Episode #126, but the shows cover separate issues and need not be viewed in order. Click through to see show notes and segment start times, plus screenshots of a couple of Nephalem Rift maps that are discussed around the 29 minute point.

  • 1:45 — Magic Find is being all but removed from RoS and D3v2.0. Flux argues against this change, Monstrous and Neinball argue for it.
  • 14:00 — Variety in play options and how that reflects, or does not, on Magic Find.
  • 18:00 — Legendary crafting mats that only drop from one specific monster in the entire game make for some fun and varied farming runs.
  • 24:00 — Spicing up Story Mode and making DiabloWikiNephalem Rifts more varied and rewarding.
  • 34:00 — The deceptive joys of palette shifting in Nephalem Rifts. Super shrines (pylons) turned down in Rifts now, but still amazing and maybe more appreciated since you don’t see them as often.
  • 40:00 — Cursed Chests conversation.
  • 43:00 — PTR mixing with RoS beta in the same game. Watch the Crusader with great jealousy.
  • 45:20 — The lack of stash space going into Loot 2.0, where more storage space is required and not being delivered.
  • 50:00 — Rambling final thoughts and bad jokes.
  • Dhalgur Oasis tileset Rift that was enormous and very altered in layout.

    Dhalgur Oasis tileset Rift that was enormous and very altered in layout.

    The buggy "100% already?" rift map from 29 minute point.

    The buggy “100% already?” rift map from 29 minute point.

    The Diablo 3 Podcast Episode Guide in DiabloWiki.net provides links to every show, plus quick summaries.

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    1. Any idea when the audio-only version goes up? I live in China, so I can’t watch Youtube, but I really like listening to the podcasts. Thanks for the consideration!

    2. Same here! I need it in 67 minutes, for when I’m taking the dog for a 54 minute walk! 😛
      (Hope it stops raining till then.. Merry Christmas… 🙂 )

    3. oh guys … ptr is torture compare to the ROS beta from what I can tell by listening to you all. No gems higher than flawless square drop. Most drops are still useless and barbarians have been neutered.

      I hear all the people who don’t play barbs mocking, ‘spin to win must be removed’ … and it reminds me of As Good As It Gets when Nicolson’s character says, “It’s not true. Some of us have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that’s their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you’re that pissed that so many others had it good.”

      So barbs are having good times, eating noodle salad. So what? Maybe they got something right? I just don’t see why the focus can’t really be in improving the other classes flux. Why does it have to be down with barbs? We should beef up skills in every other class and also just keep making higher levels of monsters … so that eventually, no matter how great a player you are and no matter how good your gear is … you almost can’t beat it. And, if you do beat it, it takes a LONG while; plus you had to do it in total planned coordination with other friends. Make that level torment 7.

      more stash space? we need lots and lots of it? how can we do this? make it so that we can unlock unlimited characters. paid? or reward for game play? I’ll do either.

      • The reason it’s easy to go off on spin-to-win Barbarians are that they are the bad kind of OP build. The good kind of OP build is extremely powerful, but requires skill to play and is fun to run. An example of this kind of build would be CM wizard, where you have to get a specific kind of gear (in this case, attack speed) and use a bunch of skills together in a combination that allows you to break the game (in this case, chaining CC to perma-stun enemies around you).

        The problem with spin-to-win build is that it does not require any real skill, in terms of gear or in terms of play. In terms of gear, all you need is high crit-chance and lifesteal, which you were going to go for anyway. For play style, all it entails is ‘buff yourself, then hold down Whirlwind until everything is dead.’ Not only is this play-style so brainlessly easy that a child could do it, but it also outshines every other Barbarian build, as well as every other build for every other class, in terms of both killing speed and survivability. When one build is so powerful that it outshines every other build in the game, it makes sense to nerf it.

        So, to answer your complaint, it shouldn’t be ‘down with the barbs,’ but it also shouldn’t be ‘play spin-to-win or don’t play at all, since anything else is horribly gimped.’ I’d agree that improving the other classes is a good step to take in order to do this, and apparently Blizzard does too, since many underused skills from other classes have received significant buffs, even on PTR, and many powerful skills have received useful new rune effects or larger damage numbers. However, this does not change the fact that a boring, overpowered build should be brought down to within reason; there should be multiple contenders for the ‘best build in the game,’ not just one easy answer.

        That said, I like your other ideas. Having a really, truly difficult final difficulty level is something I would also advocate for, and was something that originally drew me to Inferno, as that was supposed to be what Inferno was. I would prefer a bigger change than just higher numbers, though; an idea I came up with in a different thread was to give trash mobs one or two boss mods. Other methods would work too; there are tons of ways of increasing difficulty without simply increasing health and damage numbers. As to more stash space and character slots, I’d be fine with having to pay for it; that’s basically what Path of Exile does, minus the character slots. Finally, as to gameplay rewards, I’ve always wanted to have Uberlevels in D3 like in Median XL. I’ve always felt that challenging uberlevels was the most fun part of that mod, and that uberlevels were better than any feature in original D2 at all. From the perspective of D3, Nephalem Rifts seem to somewhat fulfill the purpose of uberlevels, but I would prefer themed levels with specific challenges. This would be a good way to reward good play, as opposed to simply farming weak enemies until you got lucky and found good gear.

        • I would tend to agree with you, in that your argument is sober. But, I still think that the barb wasn’t OP, I think the barb worked really well. And, we need to bring the other classes up to that level of playabiity while simultaneously creating more difficult levels.

          Whenever access to any part of diablo becomes easy for one class it’s OP. Well, I think a lvl 60+ paragon barb that’s well geared SHOULD have an easy go for nearly all the levels. However, they’re should have been an MP 11 that even the best geared player could not solo.

          • The barb could completely ignore the most critical components of monster difficulty (crowd control), indefinitely. “Bringing other classes up” would mean crowd control would be completely ignored, and provide no way to threaten anybody. That’s garbage, and makes the game incredibly boring for everyone.

            • Interestingly, now every class has the potential to do that, but it will require 5 items, each with a perfectly rolled stat. CC reduction can spawn on Helms, Shields, Rings, Amulets and at level 60 each may spawn with up to 20%. Note that total immunity will require lower offense this time as you’ll have to use a shield. Even if there’s a Legendary in the game that provides this immunity that’s probably still a trade-off, because I assume there will be offensive pieces for every slot.

            • To HardRock, the full CD reduction depends on the class. Wizard and Monk have pure CC-reduction passive,s and I believe that the Barb does too (I only played him for about 10 hours, so I don’t know his passives well). I believe that the DH and Crusader have some CD reduction passives for certain skills. Finally, the WD has Grave Injustice, which reduces CD by 1 second per kill, meaning that even if the WD doesn’t get 100% CDR, he/she doesn’t necessarily need it. Finally, every class can spec for up to 10% extra CDR from Paragon points, and Diamonds give CDR when socketed into helms. As a result, while it will still probably be really hard to hit capped CDR, there’s a bit of leeway in the system. You’re right though that gearing this way will require lowered offense/defense unless your luck is godly, since the odds of getting perfect/near-perfect CDR and excellent offensive/defensive stats should be roughly the chance in D3 vanilla of rolling a trifecta ring, amulet or glove. Gearing should be interesting come RoS 🙂

            • Yes, but I was talking CC or crowd control reduction. 🙂

              I don’t think there’s a cap on cooldown reduction actually, but it definitely has diminishing returns.

    4. Call me Master of the Background!

    5. Not sure if this was reported…

      What is included in the Digital Deluxe edition?
      The Digital Deluxe version of includes a digital copy of the expansion along with the following exclusive in-game bonus items for StarCraft II, World of Warcraft, and Hearthstone:

      A summonable skeletal minion.
      3 additional Diablo III character slots.
      3 Hearthstone booster packs.
      A set of Diablo portraits for your StarCraft II account.
      A set of Diablo decals for your StarCraft II buildings.
      A Treasure Goblin pet for your World of Warcraft account.
      7 Malthael-themed no-stat weapons, suitable for transmogrification.
      3 no-stat helmets suitable for transmogrification.

      source:
      https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/diablo-iii-reaper-of-souls-presale-faq

    6. Cursed chest is also in Story mode..just saying

    7. I was never gearing for MF and I liked what they did with Paragon 1.0 but I’m with Flux. Though I see it now working (just like the rest said) with current Torment. They should implement “higher torment level” = “new better legs, higher level mats, etc.”, so you need to play higher torment levels to get a chance for sth better.

      • only flux’s argument was gearing options.. While I understand.. MF is not option for many people..it’s just mandatory way to gear up…I am all for gearing option..but rather let us choose if we want play more offensive, defensive, mobile or with just pure power..for god sake..don’t force us to choose between effective drops and non-effective drops..

    8. I think Flux’s idea is just impossible to balance. The reason magic find was so important in d2 is because it was so effective. The game was really easy enough that you could wear a LOT of magic find and steamroll through everything except the pandemonium event, and it might be possible to do that with a bunch of MF as well.

      D3 is meant to be a lot harder, especially in the expansion with life steal being removed. This means there’s an actual trade-off to MF of kill speed/safety vs loot-per-kill. The problem is that this only results in 2 possible scenarios:

      Gearing for MF is straight worse or better than not gearing for MF; therefore, there is no choice in terms of efficiency.

      MF and no MF are equally efficient (very difficult to accomplish), except for people who have amazing gear who benefit more from MF because they can still do the hardest difficulty.

      The 2nd scenario is the ideal, and it still has problems. The top percent of players would not only have the highest farm rate, but then they would be able to increase that rate further to gain massive benefit. This isn’t a big problem because it doesn’t hurt the lower power characters when someone else can farm more effectively, assuming that there isn’t much of an economy in the expansion. If there IS a strong economy, then it’ll be dominated by the top players with everyone else fighting for scraps.

      The bigger issue with this is now there’s a choice, but it’s a choice that doesn’t matter. Why weaken yourself for better magic find if you’re not gaining anything from it? In fact, you’d be getting less exp by opting to run lower difficulties with higher MF. In order for MF to be a meaningful decision, it has to be more efficient. Since diablo is a game about farming, and your results are based on time spent vs efficiency, maximizing your efficiency is obvious. Instead of incentivizing players to max MF because it’s the defacto efficient choice, they remove the choice and let players focus on the game rather than the metagame, which should be more fun. Diablo is after all an RPG, and the whole reason we want MF is to get powerful items, not so much to get items with even higher MF.

      In the end, this is completely subjective. Some people like MF, but the question is WHY do they like MF? I hate MF, because while I want to farm items, I recognize that’s not the goal of the game. It’s like in real life, I don’t want money as much as I want the stuff money buys. MF isn’t the goal, it’s a tool to accomplish my goals, and if I can accomplish my goals in more interesting combat-oriented ways, then I’ll choose that option.

    9. That is where the beauty of MF comes into play… MF helps you find that “amazing gear”, which helps you run more MF while still playing on a higher difficulty. It’s challenging. Anyone can just grind and up their stats (which is pointless in D3 because stats update automatically, unlike stats in D2, which you had to assign in an appropriate manor in order to have a chance in later acts), MF adds a different twist to the game dynamic. Personally, I do not care to grind endlessly for the same outcome as everyone else. I enjoy hunting for specific legendary and rare items, or for specific item sets.

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