The Diablo 3 Podcast #113: Datamined Skill Class Discussion


Diablo 3 Reaper of Souls datamining exposed 5 (4?) character classes undergoing major changes. This podcast covers all 5 classes and the key changes (and omissions) to their skills heading towards the Diablo 3 expansion. Flux, Rankil, and Wolfpaq.

Topic timeline after the break.

  • 0:20 — Intro to Rankil and welcome back to Wolfpaq.
  • 1:30 — Barbarian skills datamining. The Barb met the Nerfstick. About time after they’ve been OP since launch? Barb lost life steal from almost all skills, but so did the other classes, since that’s an overall change in RoS.
  • 8:00 — There are several character properties in Diablo 3 that can be really OP. These include fast movement, too much resource regen, easy high DPS, and life steal. All those things are being nerfed and adjusted in RoS, and the Barb had the most of them of any class, which is why his nerfs seem the most violent.He had the farthest to fall.
  • 11:15 — Are any Barb builds buffed or improved? Weapon Throw and Ancient Spear? We have an admittedly incomplete picture at this point, with much development and balancing yet to come..
  • 18:00 — Demon Hunter datamined skills. Tons of buffs to Hatred Spenders. Why the nerf to Discipline, when it’s already the hardest resource to manage?
  • 20:40 — What if all the classes got a reduction to damage taken, the way Barb/Monk/Cru do? Fixes to the Demon Hunter’s need to kite? Lack of burst damage that equals other characters?
  • 23:00 — The weird Archery nerf: Bows and pistol Xbows reduced bonuses and untouched bonus to Xbow
  • 27:25 — Monk datamined skills. Very few changes to the class and almost untouched passives. But new Monk passives are cool. Fists of Thunder changes: buff or nerf?
  • 33:00 — AoE vs. single target skills. Loot runs or other changes to promote more build diversity? Changes to Monk skills? Not to Mantras, because Crusader has them.
  • 38:40 — Witch Doctor datamined skills. The least changes in the datamining of any class. Devs just haven’t turned full attention to the class yet? Flux highly recommends the summoned vs. free Zombie Dogs debate in the Witch Doctor skills thread.
  • 40:20 — Undocumented changes may be legion. Plague of Toads has hugely faster movement speed on the console. Might such changes be coming to RoS, without any mention in the tooltips as a preview?
  • 42:30 — Why no proper Zoo Doctor build?
  • 45:30 — Wizard datamined skills. Tons of skills. Buffs and tweaks galore to the active skills. Wolfpaq has excite since he’s been playing only Wizard lately. Seems like the Critical Mass build is not entirely broken in RoS, to our surprise. Elemental damage types mattering will make a big difference to the wizard with all the changed elemental types on skills.
  • 48:30 — Infinite resource regen for the Wizard needs to be fixed? Or differs fundamentally from the Barb’s OP Fury filled?
  • 52:30 — Is Double Hydra enough to make the skill a viable build option? Would the “Hydras from corpses” have been better? Legendary items that finally matter to creating builds. For wizards and others.
  • 59: 00 — The best rune in several skills have now been baked in to the base form of the skill, with runes modifying that. Good change. Auction House close encouraging for progress? How best to prepare for the coming close of the AH and the transition to DiabloWikiLoot 2.0, DiabloWikiParagon 2.0, and DiabloWikiReaper of Souls?

The Diablo 3 Podcast Episode Guide in DiabloWiki.net provides links to every show, plus quick summaries.

Comments

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  1. The holy damage secondary effect is life steal.

  2. Great podcast! Is it me or is the wizard getting pampered treatment over the Monk as usual? I’d like to see more Monk changes, seems the dodge aura is getting nerfed too much.

  3. I mainly play wizard and wizard is certainly getting a lot of good changes. I’m not only looking forward to Frost orb but also the other elements the fire orb and lightning orb. They can do so much with passives to encourage “elemental specialization” with wizards. One thing I think they should change is make Sleet Storm it’s own skill and give it the same elemental treatment where it’s rune effects change it to “fire storm” where you have whirling fire around your wizard or “lightning storm” electricity surrounds your wizard. I like that they changed it to its radius increases up to 22 yards over time as well, I like to use the SS build in general.

    • An Arcane version of SS could be the wizard becomes a “twister” where a giant one forms around the wizard and smaller ones spin off hitting monsters further out.

  4. There are some Barbs builds not affected by Into the Fray like Cleave – Scattering Blast, or SS Rumble Mighty Weapon build. The changes to barbs are going to make them more interesting.

    Wizards do not have resaurce generators the way barbs have and to have infinity AP you need at least two items with it. Source is easy to get but than you need StormCrow on head for this. And it’s still on crit and skills cost more than Barbs typical fury spenders. So it’s not the same and needs some items to get it in comparison to Into the Fray.

  5. I’m disappointed that there’s only one class in the expansion, since I was really hoping for a minion-focused class. I suspect the Witch Doctor will get some improvements in that area with new 60-70 skills and some tweaks to existing stuff, but I doubt it’ll reach anywhere near the level of the D2 Necromancer.

    Or more generally, any kind of passive DPS class that focuses on tactical decisions rather than just running around and clicking on everything. Something that offers a fundamentally different play style.

  6. I wanted to draw attention to a potentially interesting change to the DH Grenadier passive. It is a big bonus to grenade damage and blast radius, but I think the most interesting change is in the verbiage of many of the skills. For instance, Cluster Arrow and Beastly Bombs (Reign of Vengeance) have had their tooltips changed from “drop miniature bombs” to “drops grenades.” Also, in the Grenadier tooltips, the word “grenades” is always presented with a lower case g. When a skill is referred to, typically upper case letters are used. In other words, I think Grenadier will affect many skills, and not just the staple “Grenades” skill.

    I thought it was very interesting, and could make the passive and the skills it affects into attractive choices.

  7. The God finds your fascination with CM… disturbing. A mandatory passive taking one slot and reducing overly long cooldowns, at the same time making redundant several other passives/runes, which is almost always paired with one same skill is, by no means, reason to be ‘excited about number of CMWW variations’.

    Very reason why Wizard class is pretty much broken is found ‘amazing’, since after taking mandatory runes/skill, it can be translated to several more or less similar builds. [The God pauses a while to wonder about removing CM in general]

    Wizard class is force-fed with CMWW build, while a number of skill incompatible with cooldown-nulifying combo are rendered useless. The God states that Wizard class is far from balanced, though some changes promise progress.

  8. QUOTE

    The God finds your fascination with CM... disturbing. A mandatory passive taking one slot and reducing overly long cooldowns, at the same time making redundant several other passives/runes, which is almost always paired with one same skill is, by no means, reason to be 'excited about number of CMWW variations'.
    
    Very reason why Wizard class is pretty much broken is found 'amazing', since after taking mandatory runes/skill, it can be translated to several more or less similar builds. 

    Wizard class is force-fed with CMWW build, while a number of skill incompatible with cooldown-nulifying combo are rendered useless. The God states that Wizard class is far from balanced, though some changes promise progress.

    Even if CM didn’t exist the other builds would suck. I’ve spent some more time experimenting with other builds, they’re very questionable in MP 6, when my dps is MP 9 worthy. Conversely my Monk has half the dps and much less of a problem in MP 6 (and of course the Barb is 25% higher and was doing MP 10, but people have an overestimated view of Barb abilities).

    At the very least the damn Blizzard and Hydra cap needs removing entirely. If those skills were spammable that’d be one build right there.

  9. The God agrees that if CM is removed and the rest left unchanged, the Wizard-class is going to be largely underpowered. This was not the direction of divine thoughts in the first place – it was rather completely fixing wizard (mainly cooldowns, perhaps in a manner proposed by The God), then remove zerofying-CM-skill – or nerf it to something reasonable, like ‘has a x% to lower cooldown by 1’.

    That way, weaker CM (or removed CM) allows other cooldown methods (runes, passives, perhaps divine-proposed level-based cooldown reduceres) to “spread their wings” and in fact become useful – together with reducing existing and unneceserally long cooldowns.

    The God states that CMWW build should be nerfed – not into oblivion as Archon – but to the point where other equaly viable builds not containing those are equal in efficiency.

    The God states that CM removal, under conditions stated above, or nerfed with a buff to other skill and cooldown reducement is a way to fix wizard class properly, while obligatory CMWW+sometging (whatever that may be) is not.

    • Cm already requires a really specific gear balance to make it work, tweak one of the components and the build is broken. Not that I find it specially Op, it seems so on good hands, but it’s risky as well, on the other hand if we need Archon and Cm boosting another skill is not enough, you need synergy, my two cents isn’t that wiz are op or babas are op, it’s just that the other classes are poorly designed and there’s no synergy on their abilities, dh and monks are just a pile of random skills put together with 1-2 viable builds in hc and WD are even more broken than wiz (and barbs for coop) and there’s no complaints. I agree with build diversity but not by breaking current fun/useful builds but by promoting new strategies making builds that now seem op (op=viable?) less appealing.

      On the other hand, there is going to be so much change on the expansion that cm might pale in comparison with possible new builds using certain items.

  10. Even I, the almighty Spectral Blades CM Wizard, agree with, not so almighty, Clavdivs. With 2.2 Aps I, the almighty Spectral Blades CM Wizard, cannot perma-freeze but still the CM saves my life. BUT what if all this AS items, that everyone desire, wouldn’t be so powerful anymore? That wiz would loss a lot if deciding to go for Inna’s, Lacuni’s or Mempo’s? That this items wouldn’t make him/her so overpowered as he/she is right now? That all what she/he gets would be perma-freeze but with not so high damage overall? So no, I, the almighty Spectral Blades CM Wizard, does not agree with such a wonderful being like Clavdivs. CM is not broken, broken is that AS,CC,CD (stats needed for perma-freeze) are so overpowered and desired by all.

    Nerf Crit Damage a lot.

  11. I hope Blizzard will never nerf CM, because perm freeze wizards always speed up runs by at least 50%.

  12. It already is x% chance of reducing cooldowns by 1, just most skills have bad coefficents, and then a few don’t.

  13. I, Clavdivs, The God, agree about coefficient – how can anyone disagree with truth?

    Divine being also agree that trifecta is root of all evil – its distribution all over equipment slots and uncontrolled growth (not capped or diminishing, for instance), that is – something that Blizzard *could* fix if they wanted too. This unlucky mechanic, unfortunately, goes very deep and would take another very bold step to eliminate – or, perhaps, the Loot2.0 will do it for us – got is clairvoyant, but Blizzard decisions are chaotic and without plan, it seems…

    Trifecta – well, partof – CD% couldn’t be blamed for this one, is indeed a part of CM problem. But there IS a CM problem, and “take this passive (remaining: 2) and this skill (remaining: 5) and start building your character is limiting. Why not being able to make equally powerful build with using all passives and skills? It doesn’t mean so much for a game like D2, with its 16 active skills and passives aplenty, but it represent 33% and 16% of choice in hard limited skills of D3.

    The same is being truth of ALL mandatory skills/passives for ALL classes – a alternative must be provided, through balancing process – but only on Wizard example did divine being notices actual ‘this is great, our choice is severely reduced!’ type of attitude of respected podcasters.

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