Should Death Make You Miss Out on Boss Drops?

A fan asked about missing out on boss drops while dead, and got a reply from DiabloWikiZarhym.

So apparently the way it works now is that if you die and youre not near the boss when you do so, you get no xp or loot…. so if I die and the bosss is close enough to dead that my team can handle it by himself and still drag the boss far enough away to make me not get any loot or xp, and hes too much of an asshat to come and res me for just that reason… im screwed. thats basically what youre telling us?

Your party member isn’t going to get any additional rewards or loot if she kills the boss while you’re dead. In fact, it’d be more beneficial for her if you were alive, as something might drop for you she wants. If she kills the boss alone, she gets loot for one person. If you kill the boss together, you each get loot for one person, slightly increasing the odds something good will drop for one or both of you. If you’re a good sport and share drops you can’t use, but she can, then you’re encouraging teamwork and fair play.

If your party member is going to make sure you stay dead, it’d be for no other reason beyond causing you grief — like I said, this person won’t benefit at all from you being dead. In that case, this isn’t a person you should continue to group with.

This seems a frivolous complaint to me, and not just because I’m looking forward to playing DiabloWikiHardcore mode.

Here’s a suggestion; if you want DiabloWikiboss drops, don’t die! There are (virtually) no death penalties in softcore D3 as it is, and any thumb-mashing tool can beat the game just by zerging things, but now it’s too much to ask that you are present in non-spectral form to pick up your loot?

D3 does not equal D2, but still… if you died in D2 and didn’t get back to the battle in time, you got nothing but whatever cracked sashes the other players didn’t want. So now that D3 has custom drops, you want one even if you’re not there?

Sure, it would be nice if your party waited for you to get back from the checkpoint, but it’s not like they’re standing around playing rock-paper-scissors to kill time; they’re fighting the same boss and its minions that just killed you, they’re probably near death themselves, and the fight just got tougher since your dumb ass bought the farm. So now it’s their fault for not waiting for you? Just… no.

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70 thoughts on “Should Death Make You Miss Out on Boss Drops?

  1. People are only happy when they’re complaining about something it seems.  If they aren’t there when the boss drops that’s to bad for them, no loot.

  2. What if you are dead and land the killing blow while dead? Eg firewall or other delayed AoE spell. Do these spells continue to display animations but no damage after you’re dead? That would solve the problem, as well as potential cheese (spam Duriel with firewall and wait for him to die while hacking at your corpse).

    • That’s a good question, do spells persist if you are killed? I guess anyone who played PvP might be able to shad some light on that.

  3. I was waiting to see what Flux would write about that post, and I lol’d.

    I find this is a symptom of “too much waiting” where we have the time and ability to theorycraft even the stupidest, most mundane situations…and get a Blizzard response from it. You can sit and wonder anything you like and post about it, but what are the odds of 99% of the crap we come up with ever occurring?

    But there do appear to be many grief-able loopholes in the party system in D3.

  4. you noobs will complain about anything it seems like, If you died during a baal run you weren’t getting any good drops either so whats so different about this?

  5. I think as long as you are there, in the vicinity of the boss, and died trying trying to kill it. You should still get the XP and loot. If you were part of the effort of dealing damage to said boss..or whatever it is, you shouldn’t be punished by getting dick all, just because you died. However, if you were goofing off elsewhere, not paying attention and was too far away to get in on the XP and loot, THEN its your own fault for not being there.
    Also, like Bashiok said, it is presumed, that you are playing amongst friends. Where you have planned out how you will play with one another. So this, douche-baggery where your friends fuck you over, should never really occur in the first place.

    • Exactly. Why not give XP and loot to everyone who participated in the battle? The only counter argument I hear is some babble about how you should have been good enough not to die under any circumstance. If this is a team based game, I would like to share in my team’s winnings if I happen to fight hard and die in battle.

    • pray tell, how is the game supposed to know how much damage you dealt or if you were goofing off? unless they implement some sort of score per minute system into the game (which i doubt they will) then there’s no way of knowing if you were contributing or cheerleading. better to make a black and white system than ‘well, in THIS case you landed 49% of all hits so…’

      I don’t really understand this argument. i can understand people getting concerned when D3 takes a big step away from D2 similarities, but if you died in D2 you still didn’t receive the reward.

      • With everything that the devs have accomplished, it would be trivial to determine whether a character has damaged an enemy.

        If you’re near a monster and do no damage you get full loot. If you do 99% damage needed to kill an enemy and die you get no loot. This is the underpinning point to the argument.

        • in D2, if a teammate killed an enemy while you were away picking your nose, you could technically take dropped loot. if you were fighting a boss and died, but then your firewall or w/e killed him, your teammate could take the dropped loot. it happens.

          DragonChi said you should not get punished, so what is supposed to happen, you die and then when you’re a ghost you can level up and get items? i was saying having a percentage of damage dealt system was NOT something that should be done.

    • Hmm what about if you died, but then your orb or blizzard killed the boss right after? I died by meph plenty of times right before my moat trick blizzard killed him, and loot still dropped. all i had to do was be careful teleporting back down to durance 3 and could gather my loot. if this was the case in D3 and you were alone, would loot still drop? if not, that’s preeeetty not good.

    • I think most of you think its a kind of WoW, where you kill a boss once a day or in a week (Raid), but no, you will be killing it multiple time a day if you want, i do in D2 Baalkills with a normal group in about 20 minutes. So, this option are realy ok, no complaining needed on this. The game is design about that you can play without dying.

      • We don’t know how long the bosses will take to kill in D3. It sounds like you’ve concluded it will be the same as D2 which seems presumptive.

        All things being equal, I’d rather get loot for participating in battle than not. This argument exists because other people feel the same way.

  6. This poster sounds like he may be a WoW player.  Still getting drops after death in WoW makes more sense because the boss fights can last forever and people can die and be resurrected or run back into the fight before it’s over.  I’m assuming that in D3, a 4 v 1 boss battle isn’t going to last long enough for this to be a big issue.

    I also think this is a small “win” for those people concerned that the game design makes it too easy or are concerned that people may stack too much MF and leech off a group.  Think a guy is leeching?  Let Diablo kick him from your group…  Your MF= 0 when you’re dead.  🙂

    • I was going to say something, but your second paragraph summed up what I was thinking nicely.

    • Thumbs up simply for your last sentence.

      I have high hopes for fun, engaging bossfights this time around instead of some boring-ass slugfest against Izual that lasts for ten minutes.

    • I remember WoW does give a player drop if the team loot when he is dead, but I have play WoW for like 5 years. However, the concept of dead player getting loot should work in WoW, since people wait for other player to revive before looting boss because some WoW boss can randomly instant kill players without anyway to avoid.

    • I think they need to be real careful about MF gear. Personally, I think they should make all characters stats heavily dependant on gear and then itimise MF so that if it’s on gear, then there’s nothing else on it. Basically, if you are in a fight where it’s tough and you use MF gear, you die. No tricks, no cheats, no loopholes.

      Hell, I’d even go so far as to take out MF stats altogether. It would remove the duality that occurs with gear choices vs fulfilling their role in the group imo.

      • If you can’t combine good MF and good gear, it’s not fun anymore. And rather pointless to have MF at all.

  7. On the subject of Hardcore, has there been any word on how it’s unlocked or will you be able to start a Hardcore character right from the get go?

    • This is a total guess on my part, but given how concerned blizzard is with noobie players (ie, people not knowing whether they made a offline or online character in D2), I dont think they’d give people the oppurtunity to accidently start a hardcore character when they first install the game.   You’ll probably have to beat one of the harder difficulties first, I’m guessing.

      • Very unlikely. I’d bet my house on it being the same as D2. You’ll be able to start a HC char if you choose, from the beginning. It will of course warn you that you are crazy, that is all.

        • Except in D2 you can’t start a HC char from the beginning.  You have to clear Normal SC first.

          • Not anymore, Patch 1.13 changed it so that you can make a HC char right after installing the game(and updating to the Patch of course =P).

  8. it only makes freakin sense who ever that poster is….you die while fighting a boss, boss dies as you travel to your body only to find him/her dead, you  dont get the experience. its not a hard concept. that poster is a nub.  NUB!

    • word xD … this guy is a real noob xD
      why asking something like this ??
      why not cut out all monsters so that there is just lewt and you cant die xD

      • as someone else suggested, he’s probably used to boss fights in WoW which can take days to initiate and if you miss it- too bad.

    • Is the other way around also. Melee DPS = Better survival traits, skills = better survival = loot?

      It dosent really work like that i know, but sorta.

    • Melee character stops attacking. Wizard does massive damaging shot. Boss Monster makes eye contact with Wizard. Wizard tries to out run boss. *Note word: try* 🙂

  9. What if you’re the only person in the game and kill him with a delayed fire wall / blizzard type spell, while dead?

    No loot?

  10. How pissed people will be all depends on the time it will take to kill bosses. For normal game play where you can just run the boss again, this is fine, at least motivating you to stay alive.
    But for longer world event things that I can imagine there will be more of in D3 as it’s server side. Where you spent the evening with your friends reaching there, and fall on the last hit just as the boss goes.

  11. What about a boss like the big siege demon in the first game play demo?  He grabbed one of the players and ripped its head off.  There might be mechanics where it’s impossible to avoid death?

    • Those sort of special animations are only used when you would have died anyway. So if you’re a 50 hps and a hit comes in that would have dealt 80 dmg, and you’re in range, and the monster has one of those special fatalities, it might trigger. But it’s not like a one-hit kill they can pull out at any time. (Unfortunately?)


      • “(Unfortunately?)”
        That one has me torn as well; I mean, they were going for as much randomization as possible, right?  (not to mention how hilarious the reactions would be to read on the BNet forums)

  12. In D2 if you died there was no loot either people would just snatch it all up anyways. Why complain about this?

  13. I agree with the points listed above.  I’m angry with Blizzard over many things, but this is definitely not one of them.  To be upset that death, which has almost no negative consequence, carries with it the POTENTIAL to not get rewards that, imho, you did not earn, is the essence of banality.  If you die, I would have no problem with a system where subsequently you did not get rewards AT ALL, as it prevents a lowbie cloud from arbitrarily increasing the loot output of a boss just because they happen to be alive when he dies.  That it only doesn’t give you (a char potentially 30 levels lower than those who actually killed the boss) loot if you’re NOT EVEN PRESENT is really, imho, not a system that you have any right to complain about.  Again, I get that people are pissed at Blizzard atm, so am I, but this is ridiculous.

  14. I don’t see a problem with it but it does not seem to fit with their theory that everyone in the game is a team and everyone will be cooperating in the kill.

  15. Let the leechers die, problem solved!  The game is \easy\ enough that you shouldn’t be dying anyway.  Internet went down?  Join the next run.  Went down again?  Play another day or get a new connection.

  16. Yes! I think it’s a ridiculous decision to not give drops to all participants.

    This WILL happen a lot:
    Player 1: “Boss is almost dead! Just a couple more hits!” *Player 1 is also very low health*
    Player 1 dies.
    Boss dies.

    Player 1 gets no credit for the boss kill. Utter crap.

    • not the game’s fault if you suck or spend too much time playing WoW that you think every game should be modelled after it. get with the program, this is D3, not WoW.

  17. I feel like punching that OP in the face. Sorry, but I do.

    So much idiocy in the morning, right after waking up, simply hurts.
    Please, BETA, just come… So I won’t have to pass time by reading up all those morronic posts and drool over all the wonders of live feeds and gameplay reports 🙂

    • Then why the hell are you here for?
      Don’t read and reply to posts if you aren’t interested. You know that beta informations are gonna be discussed here anyway, so gtfo and jerk off while you wait for your precious beta.

  18. OMFG LMFAO!!! People are now bitching about drops??? They want to receive part of the loot despite getting their ass kicked before the boss gets his/hers?? Man “get a life” isn’t even powerful enough to fit this one.

    • I don’t know why everyone is saying he was “bitching” or “complaining”.

      The quoted portion, he’s just looking for information. Granted, it’s a stupid/ridiculous question, but the blues thought it well enough to respond to. The point of that thread was talking about loopholes in the party system. He just chose an incredibly poor example.

  19. Let them stay dead and focus on killing the boss.

    I guess most people here don’t realize that D3 runs do not have lockdowns (from what I know so far). This isn’t like WoW that a dungeon locks for a day and a raid for a week. If you missed out on loots because you died, you can do that run again and again with no restrictions. Dying and not having loots were only critical in WoW, and most noobs here failed to realize that. It only shows that the complainers are mostly WoW players who don’t have a single clue about the game.

  20. So, it’s become a battle between people wanting the game to be super easy (like one big cinematic you can sit back and watch on your couch) and people wanting the game to be just that. A GAME.
    Please read the following interview by Crate Entertainment Developer, Arthur Bruno.

    He has some great points concerning where games are heading nowadays and how they want to change that.  Go down to the question: “The action RPG seems to be becoming more popular of late, which is great news. How will Grim Dawn stand out – what makes it unique?”

  21. And now we got the same 2-3 WoW Hammer Legion members thumbing down every post damning the OP lol. Man, people these days. Get with the program, little WoW 5 year old players, this is D3, not WoW. Get used to it or get the F out.

  22. No cookies for the dead. Since when is that new? Silly argument all together.
    Also there is no benefit for anybody else if you die in Diablo 3. It’s just your own fault.

  23. No pain no gain.
    I’ts verry important to have some penelties in softcore like this. That will keep you on your toe, and thats a good thing.
    i really would like to see more penelties like this when you die, lose xp, gold, dur is just so basic.

  24. In Diablo 2, when doing boss runs with random people, people would mostly die near the end of the fight, because they would stand next to the boss so they could quickly grab the loot. This problem won’t exist in Diablo 3, so you only have to play safe if you’re that worried about dieing.

  25. This kind of posters are the kind of influence I’m worried the most at the moment. I’m quite happy with all the decisions Blizzard made, that caused other people to go nuts with QQ. But this; noob friendliness. I’ll be super pissed if the game is too easy. And yes, I know, I can go hardcore to get extra challenge, I’d still rather be playing softcore…

  26. D3 is not an MMO with dedicated healers.
    If you die in D3, no one’s to blame but you.

    And don’t even think you can get away with writing “OMG LAG” on B.Net with dedicated realms.

  27. in an ideal world (game) the player should be rewarded for a battle hard fought. that means: the more damage inflicted/time spent the more/better your loot. * would stop rushed characters from getting good loot if they just hid somewhere nearby * would stop mf chars that are too weak to fight from getting good loot * would stop chars from entering a battle at 5% boss-health and getting the same as the ones that did the first 95% of the work if you sp and die – and your enemy dies after you (because of dot, some projectile,…) you would still get your reward.

  28. “To court the casual audience, developers are simplifying game systems and minimizing the potential for inexperienced players to make bad choices.
    They’re reducing the amount of time it takes to finish games, adding a constant stream of visible rewards for increasingly simplified achievements,
    and allowing players to pay for success when the effort of achieving it through the game proves too challenging or time consuming.”

    “The sad reality though, is that this isn’t some evil corporate executives have perpetrated upon humanity, it’s what people want. At least, some people.
    Well, as it stands, it appears to be quite a lot of people and that is why the industry and gaming is largely trending in this direction.”

    “While the casual market is certainly large, the hardcore gaming audience has also grown tremendously over recent years.”

    “I believe many in the more traditional, core gaming audience are starting to become frustrated with the changes they’re seeing to their most beloved games.”

    From the grim dawn article – i feel somewhat like what that person i saying there aswell, no trolling, no rabid “i won’t buy D3”, but a fear for these very real occurences today.

    • Nice quoting mate. That pretty much sums up what I was thinking about this. I don’t mind pleasing the casuals, but would prefet there would be a very steep difficulty curve to please the hardcore gamers at the end game as well.

  29. Agree with u flux….. A suggestion to ppl who dont like to miss out on boss drop: play it by urself. that way if u die, u can come back and u know the boss will still be there waiting for u to kill it.

  30. If Hell and whatever Inferno is are as difficult as their boasting, it’ll be funny to see how often all 4 people make it out at the end. If the fastest, least aggravating way to tackle tough bosses requires defined class/build niche roles, people will start to build their teams around those roles. Now imagine one team role is really crucial and important, but has a tendency to get hit a lot more than the other roles (a tank, for example). So now that person has a very good chance of getting nothing for all that effort. Why bother? I guess the group will have to get someone else, and take three times as long, and also the other team members have a much greater chance of dying, as well.
    Point is, teams should be greater than the sum of the parts. Sometimes, those parts have to do very dangerous things in order to keep the other people safe. You can’t (and shouldn’t try to) balance risk evenly amongst team roles. And as difficulty and fight complexity increase, these factors (risk balancing and team roles) become magnified.

  31. Good article, and I love all the work you do on this site, but I could really do without the hardcore elitism…

    There are (virtually) no death penalties in softcore D3 as it is, and any thumb-mashing tool can beat the game just by zerging things

    I respect people who are able to successfully play hardcore, but the fact I play regular mode (softcore is a term used for nekkid movies and by hardcore players trying to belittle others) does not make me a thumb-mashing tool.

  32. This mechanic has the potential to revive the WoW PuG nightmare all over again.

    Just grab the bull by the horns and make it so that as long as you’ve contributed or taken a meaningful ammount of damage to the fight, say around 15% on 4-player mode (this is much easier in D3 since all classes are DPS), you get full XP and loot on the boss regardless of where you are when the fight ends. 

    Designing a system that depends on the kindness of strangers is a sure way of inviting frustration to pick-up groups.

  33. Sad to say it, but in Diablo 2 if you died during a boss fight, guess what? You didn’t get jack.

    I agree, this wont be for the faint of heart. If you need help beating a boss/act/monster in nightmare or hell… grouping is recommended. 🙂

    I don’t honestly believe hell mode will be easy if you decide to solo. I kind of hope it isn’t truthfully…

  34. I didn’t think about this prior… but does it auto-resurrect you to the nearby checkpoint after a ‘set time?’

    What if you just never clicked the button and just sat there and waited for the boss to be killed first? Unless it doesn’t drop any loot if you are in that ‘limbo’ stage. Then nevermind! 😀

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