Reflects Damage Should be Removed?


Not like this, anymore.

Not like this, anymore.


It seems like the Elite Affix DiabloWikiReflects Damage gets tweaked every patch, and every time that reminds some fans that they want it out of the game entirely. Not that forum posts demanding that get very far…

PETITION TO REMOVE REFLECT DAMAGE

Make your voices heard. Post YES if you want it removed.

…petitons are not permitted
Nevalistis: FTFY.

What actually changed? Here’s the blue description:

Monster Affix – Reflects Damage

  • Only one monster in a pack can be reflecting damage at a time
  • Damage inflicted by each reflects damage has been increased
  • The average damage taken from a reflects damage pack should remain mostly unchanged but the spikiness in damage should be greatly reduced
  • Long ago RD was active on whole packs the whole time and they were instant death if touched by a character with high damage AoE. Bliz therefore adjusted the affix to make it more sporadic, and now on Live, RD is active on several (at most) of the Elite + Minions at once, then turns off for a few seconds, letting players time their attacks to get in damage with no RD present.

    But since in the current game RD can be active on several enemies at once, it’s potentially very “spiky” in damage. Hence this latest change, so that in v2.3.0 on the PTR, RD is always active, but never on more than one enemy in the pack. This makes RD easier to deal with for characters without huge AoE attacks, but means there is zero safe time when RD is entirely absent, and big AoE attacks, especially ones that persist for several seconds, are very dangerous to use against RD elites.

    The Devs obviously want there to be one Elite Affix to which the solution isn’t just MOAR DPS. What do you guys think? Is there a need for Reflects Damage, and should players have to occasionally watch what they’re blasting with their mega-damage?

    PTR Testing Report

    I’ve played a fair amount on the PTR and much of that with a Demon Hunter, the class that’s probably most affected by RD. So… in my opinion it’s not that bad. Everyone’s experience will be a little different of course, but since I play Hardcore I’m running with a lot higher Toughness and LoH/Regen, and somewhat lower DPS, than most softcore DHs. Thus RD is less of a danger to me, since I’ve got so much more damage mitigation. (High Armor really makes a diff in how much damage you take from RD.)

    That said, Reflects Damage is noticeably more dangerous in v2.3. My first game on the PTR I leapt right in on T10, and the first RD pack I met caused me to proc before I even saw the enemy. Just from the damage dealt by my target-seeking Rain of Vengeance hitting the Elite slightly off the edge of the screen. I Vault Vault Vaulted away, and once I was at a safe distance I switched Vault to Smoke Screen. The second of invulnerability provided by that skill was enough to keep me from procing again, though I had to drink some potions, and each RD pack I met required kiting and retreating, to get the minion with the spikes off the screen, they weren’t instant death or anything.

    I’ve since done up to GR50, and using a Unity through the Cube with high toughness and regen, I can pretty much ignore RD now, since the damage is so much less spiky than it is in v2.2 on the Live realm.

    That said, I’m playing with caution and high Toughness, and those gear choices mean I’ve got a bit lower DPS as well. A DH or any other class with big AoE and a more glass cannon build is going to find RD a lot more dangerous than I do, and I’ve seen plenty of PTR forum posts from DHs and others bemoaning the change, and insisting the newly-unavoidable RD makes those elites certain death to engage. There’s a lot of, “my GRift is instantly ruined if I hit an RD” and for all I know they’re not exaggerating.

    So what do you guys thing? Reflects Damage Should be Removed? Changed back? Nerfed?

    Tagged As: | Categories: Bosses, Diablo 3, Diablo 3 Patches, Diablo 3 PTR

    Comments

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    1. I played a witch doctor (pet army build) from level 1 to paragon level 117.  Got as high as torment 2 and GR 15 or so.I completely ignored RD.  It would sometimes take 25 or 50% of my life, but I'd just heal up with health globes after.That said, I don't like the idea of "stop dps now" because there's so many builds that can't.  Like my pet army, how am I supposed to tell my pets "okay stop attacking now"?  Or an AOE ability that was cast before RD swapped to that target?I think a low level of damage that can be mostly ignored is fine for variety, after all our characters can wear thorns gear so why not the enemies?  But it needs to always be survivable.

      • It's kind of an awkward fit, as the devs keep giving us more awesome AoE all the time abilities via sets and legs, and then there's this one monster affix that turns your big damage against you. But it's just the one ability, and it comes with no warning, and many of the big AoE attacks can't be turned on/off that quickly, or aimed precisely.

        In once sense it's like, "occasional instant death is a fair price to pay for gearing/building to deal massive everywhere AoE." But that's not a recipe that works well in a game with Hardcore, and it's not good when competitive higher Grifts are a thing.

        I don't really see how RD can be fixed or made to work in the game as it is today.  Maybe if the ability gave a several seconds of warning before it activated, so a player could avoid it, the way we do Molten or Frozen bombs… but 1) you can't really aim a lot of those AoE abilities, and 2) as fast-paced as the game is, most Elites are dead before "several seconds" have even elapsed.

        • "I don't really see how RD can be fixed or made to work in the game as it is today."Exactly this. I'm not opposed to the idea of RD (and as someone who mains a Barb I've never ever really even noticed RD), but it just doesn't work in the context of game as it currently stands with such and emphasis on massive, uncontrolled, explosive AoE. RD may have worked in a previous (or future) iteration of the game, but not currently. Unfortunately this is yet another example of how this game is still being built as we play it.  =\

    2. As a HC player never really had a problem with RD with much higher def. after vanilla that is. I have an interesting idea, as RD is not liked by many. What if the elite Pack  periodically teleported to a random party member location instead of RD?

    3. The current form is horrible and is a permanent 1 shot for AoE builds. Nats = skip the pack.

      Make it like the old one (ALL OF THEM but only for some time then NON of them for some time)but instead make it scaling. First second it hurts but it is not SUPER deadly, but if you continue to attack you die as punishment.

      There done. Counter-play added. Everyone is happy.

      • I think that would be great if they also added an ability to cancel all dots the enemy has so you could actually avoid being killed.

    4. in season 2 i played WD's.   on one guy I tried the poison dart build.   I forget which lvl of gr it was now, I think  a gr27 or gr28.   RD completely destroyed me so fast I had no time to react. The problem is that it is scaling off your damage ability against a monsters hp ability.  But a player's HP ability is pathetic next to the players dmg output.    In the current meta, we don't buff our hp near as much as we do our dps.  so we quickly become insanely powerful against our own HP. Look at the thorns stuff they put in the game for the player though.   It isn't reflecting dmg from the monster, it is simply saying, hey the monster hit me, now lets apply some amount of dmg back based on +thorns dmg.   D2 of course was +% of incoming damage back to all mobs within a radius.  Maybe if they changed it so that it matched how player thorns works.  Remove our dmg to the monster from the equation and you likely have an ok affix that hurts a little bit but doesn't instagib us.

    5. What if you change the mechanics of RD so that the reflected damages is calculated based on your current health, not so much the damage you're doing to the enemy?  If you hit an enemy with RD, you always take 30-40% of your current life in damage – that way you can never "kill" yourself by hitting something, but you will be severely gimped if you keep whaling on an RD enemy – making you vulnerable to an actual attack.

    6. It's one of those affixes that reminds me why I don't play hardcore… that and thunderstorm are responsible for more "deaths by monster that was just off-screen" than I can count. They keep saying Diablo 3 is about getting away from "spiky" damage and more toward damage that wears you down and forces you to be more "strategic," but, well… that hasn't been my experience since launch in 2012, and it sure ain't my experience now. It's like it's always been, even since Diablo 2: easy 99% of the time, then you're suddenly dead before you know what happened. (I play wizard, of course)

    7. It's more than time they removed this stinky affix from the game. It was causing problems since way back in D2. It should have never even been brought over from D2… This game is about doing damage to the monsters to win, so why is there an affix that causes you to lose for doing that? They might as well make an affix that prevents you from logging in. (oh wait, they already did, error 32! The first elite most players encountered on launch day.) And whatever idiot decided it would be a good idea to have frozen and jailer, and wormhole cause damage AND crowd control needs a kick in the nads.

    8. If Blizzard wants to leave in and constantly adjust Reflect Damage and treat HC players like rats in an ever-changing maze,they could at least create a HC only L potion with no cool down. Seems fair.

    9. …or a L gem that will highlight when a RD is within x yards. Call it ESP.

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