Reaper of Souls Beta Hotfixes: December 4, 2013


A hotfix to the beta test today with just a couple of changes, though one of them is quite impactful.

December 4, 2013

General:

Crushing Blow is being temporarily disabled.

  • Since Crushing Blow is currently adversely skewing data and feedback from the beta, we’re going to remove it for the time being. We’ll be continuing to iterate on this stat in the meantime.
  • Items:
    Gloves of Worship

  • The duration increase to shrines is being changed from 60 minutes to 10 minutes.
  • Crushing Blow had rapidly become the most sought and most valuable modifier, so it’s going to be interesting to see how they change it. The affix was basically creating two play styles; you could go without any CB and just stack up some DPS to 800k or higher, and faceroll through the lower difficulties. But if you wanted to do Torment or higher you had to have CB, and lots of it, and then your total DPS became much less important.

    Just for hypothetical examples: If you were playing Master difficulty, you’d have been better off with 700k dps and no Crushing Blow than if you had 500k hps and 30% Crushing Blow. But take those exact examples to Torment 3 and you’d have been completely helpless with even 1000k dps and no crushing blow, vs. 400k dps and 30 or 40% CB.

    Players and fans I’ve talked to mostly figured that the higher levels of Torment were designed with Crushing Blow in mind, since how else was a character supposed to deal with monsters that had billions of hit points?

    Comments

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    1. Ouch, that Gloves of Worship nerf turns a “game changing” legendary effect into a mere “nice bonus” that will never change the way you play. If it’s too powerful, a more interesting fix would’ve been to limit the player to only 1-2 shrine effects at a time.

      • I gotta disagree, 1H shrine buffs, or ANY shrine, is op to me, maybe 10 min is too much of a ‘nerf’, but again, its a beta, if people complained 1h was OP and blizzard agree, whos to say the same wont be done if 10min is too weak ? …Gotta test to see, but i believe 10-15 min is a sweet spot.

        • I agree. 1 hour shrine buff of any kind is too OP; the one that matters most is the Empowered Shrine, so even if you’re only limited to 1 or 2 effects, that just means you’ll hunt for Empowered specifically before going off. Still, I think that 10 minutes is a little too weak; regular shrines last for 2 minutes, so 10 isn’t that big of an upgrade. Still, I think that it should be 20 minutes, since A) that has a nice round number on it (2 to 20 is ten times duration) and B) the effect is still powerful, but you can’t just get a shrine and be buffed for the rest of your session. I’d guess that 10 minutes will be shown to be too weak, and some kind of sweet spot will be reached. Still, 1 hour was way too OP; there was no way that item was making it through the Beta completely untouched.

          • 20 round number? But 2 to power of x will never give you 20!? 16 and then 32 if you want round numbers 😉
            Too much coding I think 😀

      • wait, what’s stoping me from equipping it before I activate a shrine, then swap to my old gloves?

    2. YES, fucking OP gloves good bye…and incase anyone is or complains about ANY changes happening, please, for god sakes, remember, its A BETA, i cant stress this enough, this isnt a NERF, its just balance.

    3. Dare I comment on the asinine stupidity of 700K+ DPS, billions of HP, items with 700+, 800+, 900+ Primary Stat/Vit, and failing to know the ramifications of adding Crushing Blow to such an ffffed up system?

      What is going to happen is all the ffffed up crap is going to remain and Crushing Blow will be iterated out of D3 never to be seen again because this D2 mechanic cannot be tacked onto and function in D3’s idiotic game design.

    4. Anyone else get the bad feeling CB will be way sadder of a stat by the time the expansion comes out. …If it isn’t outright removed.

    5. Crushing blow will be renamed to Arena PvP, or possibly Neph Trials

    6. agree for this change, nice job blizzard.

    7. Well, they could just make the crushing blow reduce current HP percentage, not total HP… That will solve the problem.

    8. Perhaps make sure that crushing blow can only be applied to each enemy once or twice (total or for each player seperate I’m not sure about)

    9. Good. I hated crushing blow the way they designed it. Especially when you consider how the monsters in higher torment difficulties were designed with millions of HP and mediocre dmg.

      What i want them to do is. If I may dream a little:

      1. Nerf monsters hp pool in torment by a huge amount.
      2. Increase monsters attack speed in torment.
      3. Crushing blow now deals 10/5/2% of monsters total hp, instead of 25/10/5% to remaining hp. This makes it possible to kill enemies with crushing blow, even with terrible dps.
      4. Remove crushing blow as a primary stat on all items
      5. Add crushing blow as a special legendary affix for a couple of melee weapons but make the dps of these weapons terrible. “50% chance to deal a percentage of enemies total hp”
      6. Replace crushing blow with “Compress” as a primary stat which increase dmg by ~10% but lowers AOE by ~5%. This would make single target builds awesome, since single target attacks would only benefit from the dmg increase and not the AOE nerf. Spells with AOE would just scale down in size, so that you would get a really really small but powerful arcane orb for example.

    10. I just want to mention why even 10/5/2% TOTAL HP is still op:
      you can jump to TIV, stack survivability, crushing and attack speed 3+ aps, totally overlook the dps. Even with 50k dps, 3+ aps and say 30% crushing you will be dealing 10/5/2% monster life per second, REGARDLESS of you dps! Thats just ridiculous.

    11. I will change my name to GargosTroll, but I will speak my mind coz I care…Once again NERF, huge nerf, why? Rotten core mechanics.
      This sort of changes can happen in a alpha, a very early alpha when you don’t know what to do with you NEW game, not in a BETA from a EXPANSION, and…certainly not in OUR most hopeful saga, DIABLO =(
      My gosh…im a troll…

      • I somewhat agree. I really, REALLY want D3 to be great and to be honest, in it’s current state I find D3V to be quite enjoyable, if only in small doses every now and then. Still, I can’t help but feel that a great deal of problems we saw around the release of D3, and after, could’ve been avoided if they only had playtested properly.

        And now it seems they’re doing the same thing all over again. Introducing a mechanic like crushing blow while simultaneously raising monster HP into the billions should have the developers asking themselves “Hmm, will ‘normal’ damage be able to keep up with CB when the monsters have such high HP”. Obviously it doesn’t, but it amazes me they didn’t already realize this.

        Let’s do some math: with 3 aps and 30% CB, the expected number of CBs per second is 0.561. If the CB deals 5% damage then at the start of the fight (monster HP near max which is 1 billion) the player will deal 28 million DPS only through CB. The DPS will then fall as the monster HP decreases, but only when the monster has around 35 million HP left (i.e. 3.5% HP) do the DPS fall beneath 1000k. The fact that noone responsible for the implementation of CB even stopped to think about this is (as far as we can tell) is flabbergasting.

    12. Crushing blow chance should proc off crit chance along with crit damage. When you get a crit hit then checks if a crushing blow procs, if crushing blow procs then crit damage doesn’t & if crushing blow doesn’t proc then crit damage does.

      To further balance limit affixes so that only crit chance OR attack spped & crushing blow OR crit damage can roll on an item. This would make having a balance of the 4 affixes more efficient then trying to max 1 of them.

    13. Kinda’ funny seeing all the people getting their panties in a bunch because of Blizzard scaling down the bonus on the gloves of worship. If they would have stayed in the game in their current (former) form, they would become mandatory for pretty much 95% of the builds capable of running torment and higher, and would completely narrow our choices in the glove department.

      As for CB… I used to LOVE the mechanic back in LoD and all my chars, from zons to paladins used it to some degree. I can, however, see the problem with monsters having billions of HP and CB totally nullifying the need for high DPS, so if they can’t figure out a way to make it work, I have no problem with it being removed until later on.

      PS- I simply HAVE to share this build Ziss is using on his stream. Even without the gloves of worship, it looks stupendously fun, and makes me forget all about my love for archon from D3C! Check it out!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed6nmz4-Tr8&feature=c4-overview&list=UUjHIGtvOabdOi10cOxZMvSg

    14. QUOTE

      Ouch, that Gloves of Worship nerf turns a "game changing" legendary effect into a mere "nice bonus" that will never change the way you play. If it's too powerful, a more interesting fix would've been to limit the player to only 1-2 shrine effects at a time.
      As Disciple said, the people would only use the Empowered Shrine, which becomes the Overpowered Shrine with the gloves. First of all, I think the Shrines should be much better balanced. +25% MF+GF or XP is clearly less wanted than the other effects. As for the gloves, I think it should keep it's current effect, but reduce the effectiveness of shrines by 50% or 66%.
      
      
      the effect is still powerful, but you can't just get a shrine and be buffed for the rest of your session. I'd guess that 10 minutes will be shown to be too weak, and some kind of sweet spot will be reached.
      I think you can do a lot of Bounties (maybe all?) or even one or two complete Rift runs in 20 minutes, not that it's an issue. The problem with 10 minutes will be that it's not really enough to allow reliance on any effects, so it would make your character's power too random over time. This is why I think it's better to keep the long duration, but with reduced effects.
      
      
      Dare I comment on the asinine stupidity of 700K+ DPS, billions of HP, items with 700+, 800+, 900+ Primary Stat/Vit, and failing to know the ramifications of adding Crushing Blow to such an ffffed up system?
      It's even more stupid to fixate on something that's irrelevant. What's important is the relationship between enemies and the players. 10 DPS against 100 HP monsters is the same as 100000 DPS vs. 1000000 HP, it doesn't matter at all.
      
      
      What is going to happen is all the ffffed up crap is going to remain and Crushing Blow will be iterated out of D3 never to be seen again because this D2 mechanic cannot be tacked onto and function in D3's idiotic game design.
      It could absolutely work, but monster HPs have to change and there has to be more strong, single enemies that worth targeting. Basically boss runs should be a thing again, only their rewards should be better balanced against the quick slaughtering of huge mobs.
      
      
      Let's do some math: with 3 aps and 30% CB, the expected number of CBs per second is 0.561. If the CB deals 5% damage then at the start of the fight (monster HP near max which is 1 billion) the player will deal 28 million DPS only through CB. The DPS will then fall as the monster HP decreases, but only when the monster has around 35 million HP left (i.e. 3.5% HP) do the DPS fall beneath 1000k. The fact that noone responsible for the implementation of CB even stopped to think about this is (as far as we can tell) is flabbergasting.
      I think they absolutely thought about this, but wanted to know for sure how CB will change players stat preferences for high Torment play. This is what beta tests and the PTR are for after all, to test ideas. Sure, you can see that it will have issues even on paper, but I'd much rather have them test things in a real environment, because this way the solution will be influenced by player feedback.
    15. QUOTE

      PS- I simply HAVE to share this build Ziss is using on his stream. Even without the gloves of worship, it looks stupendously fun, and makes me forget all about my love for archon from D3C! Check it out!

      That’s a really clever use of the Hexing Pants.

      • Isn’t it? An item affix as “simple” as giving boni while in movement and negative effecs while standing still is simply ingenious. And yes, I am aware of the fact that it’s a system that is greatly used in PoE 😉

        Opens up tons of new possibilities and builds!

    16. I’m worried to see how all the popular builds, both in D3V and in the beta always consist in keeping 1 or several buttons pressed in all the situations. There’s no kind of tactic or strategy, it’s always spam one/all the habilities all the time.

      I was hoping for a more strategic combat with the expansion, using more CC skills and positioning of your character, but it looks like it’s still smash your face in your keyboard to succed.

    17. ATTACH=CONFIG]4985[/ATTACH]
      You really didn’t expect for that buff to remain at 60 minutes, right?

      4985
    18. I think CB will be OP or null whatever they do since the result the attack does not depend on the HP of the monster which is one of the two stats which changes when changing difficulty level.
      Without CB, to go to a higher difficulty, you have to stack EHP and DPS (OK with Life Steal, only DPS and they remove LS because of this). Adding CB removes the need for DPS; it adds the problem they solved removing LS.
      In D2, remember that elites are gaining HP while you hit them and “Attack level” (or adding ignore target defense) was a core characteristic to pass hell difficulty. Having a huge EHP, CB but a poor attack rate resulted in the impossibility to kill elites (baal minions….) because they were gaining life faster the you hit them.

    19. I think CB will be OP or null whatever they do since the efficiency of the killing does not depend on the HP of the monster which is one of the two stats which changes when changing difficulty level.

      That is because all monsters are basically the “same”: huge HP bulbs you tickle a bit and slowly they die.. If there would be “tank monsters/bosses” or “mass numbers”, there would be merit for both effects: want to be strong vs tanks/bosses? Go CB, want to beat dozens of pesky things, go flat dmg.

      It does indeed remove the need for DPS: but that is the whole point.. That dps isn’t the end-all stat.

    20. Disabling CB will allow players to test more builds in Torment.

    21. Why don’t they just have CB stop working on monsters below 50% hp?

    22. Why not just make crushing blow something like 150% of your maximum damage. For example say you do 400k-1million damage on normal attacks a crushing blow would always be 1.5 million damage. Then it can be translated to skills the same way with Crushing blow. This way people might build towards buffing their damage when stacking CB. Make crushing blows uncrittable. Could even add in a small percentage of the monster health % damage to it and make the ‘your damage’ (150% from above) part smaller.

    23. Generally speaking, it’s never a good idea to have attacks that do a % of the targets HP. Look at the classic RPGs, skills like Gravitone and the like are useless because they have to be nerfed not to work on bosses, otherwise it’d be too powerful. That said, it’s generally never a good idea to have HPs run into the billions either. Blizzard could definitely benefit from a ‘less is more’ attitude there. Maybe have heroes doing 1-10 dmg in normal, 11-20 in nightmare, 21-40 in Hell, and 40-100 in Inferno, with monster Hps in the 100, 200, 400, 1000 range.

      And really, CB nerf and no Monster HP nerf? I guess they just don’t want people to play Torment difficulty. I imagine the feedback on Torment will grind to a halt now that it’ll take 10 minutes to kill one white mob, and hours to kill a boss. And again with this patch, nothing but nerfs.

    24. Why are people saying CB is being nerfed? It’s clearly the most powerful stat in the end-game and mandatory to have at least some, but the reason they’re disabling it is to gather non-CB information. If everyone’s stacking CB, then that’s all the info they have. CB might be nerfed, and it’ll probably even be removed, but that’s not what is happening right now based on what the blue post says.

      I think the glove change is good. 60 mins = pick the best shrine and roll with it. 10 mins = have a shrine all the time (or at least a majority of the time). The gloves are still pretty powerful at 10 mins if the normal is 30 seconds, considering how strong shrines are. 10 mins of invulnerability? That sounds really fun.

      I like the idea of CB doing damage based on Total health better, but I think the best solution is to make it like D2 static, where it can only take a boss down to 25% or 50%. Right now it seems like it takes 20 seconds to drop a boss to 10% and another 40 seconds to finish them. That’s no surprise given the power of crushing blow, but it really undermines the need for DPS. If you stack survivability instead of DPS, you just get more mileage out of your CB. Capping the CB damage means it’s still useful on trash and not too powerful with bosses on the highest difficulty. Having it only do 5% on bosses is good as well, because it incentivizes you to get more than 5 or 10% CB chance. I think disabling CB when a monster is at 25% hp or lower makes CB a good stat. It’s probably still mandatory, but this way DPS is still important.

    25. QUOTE

      Why not just make crushing blow something like 150% of your maximum damage. For example say you do 400k-1million damage on normal attacks a crushing blow would always be 1.5 million damage. Then it can be translated to skills the same way with Crushing blow. This  way people might build towards buffing their damage when stacking CB. Make crushing blows uncrittable. Could even add in a small percentage of the monster health % damage to it and make the 'your damage' (150% from above) part smaller.

      So crushing blow is just another “critical hit” thing?

      Please when suggesting, think of something UNIQUE that would require something ELSE than the standard dps to maximize efficiency.

      • so sorry must have missed your awesome suggestion…(don’t be a dbag)

        and no it would not just be another dps thing because if it’s uncrittable crit is out, and so is crit damage, but attack speed and mainstats/+to skill damage stats would still be in.

        In what scenario would you still not want to focus some on dps? The fact that CB does NOT require huge dps is one of it’s issues.

        Make Cb uncrittable/lower the % you can stack/range it can have on items, and lower the % of life it takes off monsters by a fair amount and you could even add in MY ‘aweful’ suggestion where it also hits for the absolute top of your max damage instead of a range of your damage like everything else.

    26. Fixes for crushing blow:

      1 damage based on hp as though you are playing solo. I.e. damage does not scale in co op.
      2 you can only apply crushing blow to one target every 3 seconds

      This makes cb really good still vs bosses or that one pesky elite that is left. It becomes useless for aoe farming.

    27. QUOTE

      Players and fans I've talked to mostly figured that the higher levels of Torment were designed with Crushing Blow in mind, since how else was a character supposed to deal with monsters that had billions of hit points?

      Now you are assuming Blizzard design their difficulties with something in mind.

    28. Why do people hate CB so much ??

      It’s a good thing.. no no w8, it’s a VEEEEERY GOOD THING..

      The problem we face is that Blizz IMPLEMENTS IT DUMB, not because of the CB itself..

      Items even at lvl 10 items can drop with a chance to CB = 4% which is f*ckin ridiculous. SAW IT on a stream – someone was leveling a Crus on adv. mode, and a freakin 4% CB item dropped at level 10.. and not because 4% CB is too OP on such a low lvl or sth (if anything it can be deprecating, really), but the problem is if you start with such a high threshold – then there’s no limit to how high lvl items can really gather CB chance in total..

      I’d just halve CB chance on everything and halve CB efficiency (or maybe tripple-down the efficiency, cause 25% is again – f*ckin ridiculous) it..

      Still – CB is a very good thing.. It allows players to define builds on different stat affixes than DPS/Critical in general

      For all those who think that only crits should be working in the game, please gtfo.. 😛

      ==============================================================
      The sweet spot is where CB and Splash and Crit investment will work almost similar in terms of efficiency, only different tastes I guess

      Probably problem is that there’s no good way to invest into your survivability while having at least some decency to not be ridiculous via CB, but you still being less efficient than those who invested in the DPS thing

      Step 1 is to definitely reduce the monster’s HP in Torment diffs, but scale their DPS, or at least their “threatening” a bit more (perhaps chase you longer, perhaps make some of the elites have 5 affixes instead of 4, but still – that’s like the problem #1 ATM), not CB as a MECHANIC

      The second problem is that there isn’t enough survivability investment(except the Crusader I guess).. Except in max HP which is by far too much ridiculous if you ask me personally (cause in RoS you basically have 10x as much HP) – there’s nothing else that scales from AR or Armor or CC reduction or sth.. Same about with the Damage, (the DPS outcome in RoS so far is like 30 times bigger than we’re used to see in the D3v) but w/e..

      Perhaps it’s that they made the primary items look really ridiculous (in terms of max HP and primary stat that increases DPS), but the problem is that noone, like literally no class really can profit (almost at all) in investing stats other than the mentioned and create a build upon it..

      It’s far better condition the game is in now, but don’t like how Blizz doesn’t work with tuning but with turn-on/turn-off and thus make a “polarized” atmosphere amongst the fans/players..

      I for one for example am HEAVILY AGAINST CB REMOVAL (assuming they do their job well at promoting it).. Even more so – I am heavily FOR making some (ACTIVE) skills depend on AR or CC reduction or Armor, or even all those.. And why not do it that way anyway ??

      Why not for example instead of 1 int giving only 10AR make it 20AR, or even better – why not make it percentage-based (same as DPS already is).. Too scared for the Int classes to get too high of an AR or what’s the problem about it ?? Or even further – why not being able to increase CC reduction according to AR anyway (say like 1% of AR resulting in the CC reduction therefore a 2k AR character will have 20% CC red) ?

      And I’m also FOR the ability to invest into splash % as well as radius and not just splash % damage.. Therefore those who prefer single-target-spells can afford to play in a more crowded area, or the other way round (as we already know it – those who get AoE spells get the crits and whatnot to increase the efficiency/damage)

      Whatever – the point is that there’s too much focus on things like DPS and max-life and no viable options for anything other than that.. And THEN maybe think how to scale monsters up, not just making them a whole-day fight and make CB LOOK LIKE OP..

      If anything – to me personally seems that Int classes should have resistance-reduction along with their own resistance increasement and CB being more “typical” for STR.. Crit probably being more Dex-related or sth like that

      in general – to not get me wrong guys : BLIZZ HAS DONE SOME AWESOME JOB WITH THE CHANGE OF ITEMS AND BUILD DIVERSITY, only I dislike and saying this cause I think that they seem to have done a pretty (at least lousy if not lazy) job at making skill diversity (in terms of all of the DPS skills are wep%-based and all the armor skills are lvl-number based and none depend on character’s armor or AR or sth) IMO

    29. EDIT: Sorry – said it wrongly about the AR% you get from Int

      (don’t get me wrong – this is the internet and there are those who would look at that line and reply upon while negating all the other said/mentioned things in the post as a whole, or even find a grammar/spelling mistake and reply upon, yet alone posting a miscalculation y know)

      –> What I meant to say is to make you get like 2AR from 10 int instead of 1AR from 10 int.. Or even make it percentage-based so int would go on par on AR as a base-stat to calc upon..

      So yep – Blizz should do their job in terms of making AR, Armor, CC red work better and even make SOME of the active skills (mainly the armor/defence-skills) depend on them

    30. So the difference is that you always hit for a given amount of damage.. Instead of random damage?

      Sorry but the only reason “stable damage” is important (instead of simply average damage) is when you’re close to 1/2 hitting, only at that point it becomes important that you are certain you deal X damage to kill a mob off (instead of being unlucky and suddenly having to deal 3 hits and another time being lucky and dealing double the damage that would ko it). Now how important is this in diablo? How much would people “use” it? Given the enormous amount of hp it would make CB effectivelly the same as another critical hit stat.

      Give me a situation when it would be different? What different playstyle/mobs would you use CB on instead of simple dps like it is now?

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