Why are Paragon Points Available pre-Max Level?


Since the DiabloWikiSharagon system was first announced and detailed we’ve been debating if and how characters below max level should have access to those DiabloWikiParagon points. It seems like it would be awesome for rerolling and leveling up quickly, but it seems kind of cheesy at the same time, imagining a new character with hundreds of bonus stat points to play with, plus all the other cool stuff DiabloWikiParagon 2.0 points provides.

The devs have wavered a bit on this issue, but at this point it seems that all characters will share in the full account Paragon points, even from level 1. Why? A fan asked that question today and received an intriguing Blue reply:

Shouldn’t paragon points be available only once you reach max level (60 or 70 for RoS) ??
Nevalistis: There are some other changes coming that we’ll talk about at BlizzCon that may cast more light on why we made this decision. *temples fingers* You shall know soon, very soon.

What changes might there be that require or benefit low level characters having access to Paragon Points? We know DiabloWikiNephalem Valor is going to kick in below max level, but I don’t see how that directly relates. Is Bliz thinking that DiabloWikiNephalem Trials will require stronger characters early on? Does this relate to Adventure Mode? Possibilities abound…

Tagged As: | Categories: Blizzard People, Blue Posts, Paragon

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  1. I know this is different because it’s just the non-customizable + to gold, magic find and stats , but shared paragon from lvl 1 is already on console. It’s perceptible, but not game-breaking. I’d liken it to the badass ranks in borderlands 2, which plateau with diminishing returns giving you around +12% to every stat unless you basically dedicate your life to the game.

  2. I want “very soon” to be even sooner 🙁

  3. It’s not cheesy. This is where you go wrong, right here…always overthinking to the point of going way too far…

    \imagining a new character with hundreds of bonus stat points to play with, plus all the other cool stuff Paragon 2.0 points provides.\

    First of all, Blizzard hasn’t released what the XP curve will be for converting current amounts of Paragon XP into Paragon 2.0 levels. So for all we know, a Paragon 1000 could end up with 150 Paragon 2.0 levels. They could end up with 900. We can’t tell that right now. But it is a factor in determining just how many Paragon Points a new Level 1 charcter will have when the patch goes live.

    Second, they’ve said before that Paragon Points get awarded into one of each of those four tabs at a time, per level. Meaning an average player won’t be running around with \hundreds of bonus stats\ on their level 1 Crusaders (or other Alts being started), those Paragon Points will be spread out across their whole Paragon menu. Meaning, even those much sought after stats to boost, like Crit Chance and Crit Damage, they won’t have a ton of Points in them when the patch goes live. People will have to gain some serious levels in order to create a level 1 character with game-breaking stats right off the bat.

    Ultimately, it comes down to Blizzard giving people incentive to start new characters and Alts. Before, with Paragon levels, the complaint was that people SAID they wanted to start new characters, but felt like they were losing out on \all the cool stuff\ they got with their high Paragon level characters.

    In Paragon 2.0, no matter what character they play, they can earn Paragon XP to the same pool (provided a character is at the level cap), AND they stand to strengthen their whole list of characters by playing one. For instance…I haven’t played my WD on PC as much as my other classes. But I could play all my other classes, and not touch my WD, gain five or six Paragon 2.0 levels, and my WD is stronger. Not only that, but with the ability to respec, those points can be used in different ways. Depending on how many Points I have to start with in the expansion, I may want to put my Crusader’s Utility points into Magic Find, so he can gather up some good gear to start. Meanwhile, my Monk may be strong enough to handle tougher areas, so he doesn’t need the extra MF as much.

    That’s a great system. Literally, the only thing Blizzard needs to pay attention to is keeping the difficulty high. Characters WILL be getting stronger with more time invested, and as long as the difficulty stays high, the extra bonuses will be appreciated, and not seen as \cheesy.\

    • A valid argument, but nowhere in there did I see any prediction about what specific new system or changes necessitate PPs at lvl 1.

      • Prediction? So, I’m supposed to just throw random ideas out there, or holdover D2 systems, without thinking? That’s your job, 😉

        “In there” I stated an existing complaint…again, for you…

        “the complaint was that people SAID they wanted to start new characters, but felt like they were losing out on “all the cool stuff” they got with their high Paragon level characters.” That’s pretty big. Paragon 2.0 now gives people even more incentive (which I think I also said) to create new characters, as Paragon Points will make those new characters stronger from the get-go, and it’ll be easier to boost them up in strength.

        As for what “necessitates” Paragon Points at level 1…nothing…beyond that strange compulsion people have for spamming forums with stupid threads like, “hey, I want to start up a [class], what gear should I buy?” Even though they won’t be able to use that bought gear til their new character hits the right level, they still want it in preparation.

        People who put enough time into playing to gain high Paragon 2.0 levels will have earned the right to create characters that are stronger than they were when the account was created. And yet, while that privilege seems like it makes the game too easy (which I’m sure “necessitated” this maniacally short post to, as usual, get critical players riled up…because no one wants the community to be positive too long, do we?), it’s a privilege that’s earned with play time…and not a de facto exploit, like the AH was turned into.

        • Checking back after the show, it seems like the specific feature… is “end game for everyone.” More about their general philosophy of players getting cool end game type features all along, instead of just at lvl 70.

          Such as Adventure Mode. Since you can start doing it whenever you want, rather than having to wait until lvl 70, your char might as well get PPs to spend all along.

    • That’s not a great system at all. It just caters for munchkin style game play, even enforces it, with no roleplaying sense at all at its basis. But if numbercrunch and stupid grinding is the only thing you’re waiting for in an action “role playing” game, then hooray to you, because Paragon 2.0 gives you exactly that – now with even less role play around.

  4. Would be nice if you could skip straight to max level using paragon points. Barring that, use paragon points to unlock all skills, skill slots, and runes for the trip.

  5. I don’t really see a problem with this provided that you can continue to bump the difficulty from the start. I know that they’re reducing the number of monster difficulty grades, but if they’ve got a grade akin to 8-10 for starting out in normal, then your extra stats will hopefully be countered, providing for a good challenge. (It’d be nice if they’d put some uniques that are good end game, but drop at lower levels so that if you are levelling, you’ve at least got some sort of reward out there.)

    And, on the other hand, if you just want to rush, low monster difficulty and the extra stats should get you through quicker.

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