Paragon 2.0 Major Redesign in New Patch


There are a lot of changes and updates in today’s new beta patch for Reaper of Souls, and perhaps the most impactful is the big overhaul to the DiabloWikiParagon system. You still earn points in the same way but the options to spend them have been revamped and improved.

Previous DiabloWikiParagon 2.0 Points:

  • DiabloWikiCore tab: Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Vitality.
  • DiabloWikiOffensive tab: Attack Speed, Critical hit Chance, Critical hit Damage, Cooldown reduction.
  • DiabloWikiDefensive tab: All Resistance, Life %, +% Armor, and Dodge chance.
  • DiabloWikiUtility tab: +to maximum resource, Movement Speed, Pickup Radius, Magic Find.
  • Patch Updated Paragon Points:

  • Core tab: Mainstat (varies for each class), Vitality, Movement Speed, Maximum Resource.
  • Offensive tab: Attack Speed, Critical hit Chance, Critical hit Damage, Cooldown reduction.
  • Defensive tab: Life %, +% Armor, +All Resistance, and Life Regeneration.
  • Utility tab: Area Damage, Resource Cost Reduction, +to maximum resource, Life on Hit, Gold Find.
  • Bonuses to the non-mainstat attributes are gone, as is Dodge chance, and Magic Find (replaced by Gold Find). Resource cost reduction, regeneration, and Life on Hit are all newly added. It’s not clear what Area Damage is; perhaps equivalent to splash damage, a new item mod in Reaper of Souls (It causes enemies near the target to take a % of the damage dealt.)

    This system now gives a lot more compelling options to spend your paragon points in every tab, and there will be much debate over how much bonus each point provides. Good changes on the whole, though. Screenshots of the new Paragon tabs can be seen below.

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    1. Kinda disappointing. This is Blizzard giving in and saying, “yeah, non-primary stats are totally useless”

      They should’ve buffed non-primary stat effect not gotten rid of them entirely, and really given players some build choice. Oh well, I don’t seem to be in their targeted demographic.

      I’ve said this a lot about D3V, but RoS is going nowhere fast.

      • One more thing, changes to paragon 2.0 are useless unless they take away the restriction of only being able to add points per tab every 4th level.

        Please take the training wheels off Blizzard.

      • Totally agree regarding the core stat changes. I’ve hoped since day one of D3V that they would go the other direction and return utility to all stats, so that you have more interesting and compelling gear choices to make. This is going in the wrong direction. Outside of that, the changes…if we are going to have to have Sharagon…are for the better I suppose.

        • I think they’re just accepting the reality that non-mainstats will never have the utility of main or vit, given D3’s base design of mainstat = higher DPS. I like the new changes in theory; mixing around the bonuses and giving more compelling options in each tab. Every field can’t ever be identical in value to every other field, since chars vary too much in their wants and gear.

          Anyway, if all the bonuses were identical then what would be the fun in that? It’s nice to assign points and feel like you’re improving your char in specific ways.

          • I think you should look up the word “specific” in dictionary.

            It would be nice if you could assign paragon points they way you want and no be forced to assign in this specific shit way.

      • They gave up on that idea a long time ago. It sucks but no use being disappointed now. That ship has sailed very far away.

      • If the next WoW expansion is any indication, main stats are going to be nothing in most RPGs. Most of your gear will automagically switch the main stats around when you change roles (like a melee Shaman into a healing Shaman, or a tank Paladin into a healing Paladin). They’re tools for the developers when they tune the monsters; players should be tweaking other stuff. I kind of like the Mastery system in WoW, for most specs. That should be something they look into for D3.

    2. Sigh.
      Sure this is better for the current game, but the issue (or one of many) still is the current main stats are terrible. Worse than terrible actually.

    3. First thing I did when I signed in was go to paragon tab. I am at a total paragon Lvl of 135 and I’m a little underwhelmed my my options here. I just felt like I should have a lot more points to spend. It really felt like work leveling my character in d3v to a paragon 100 but I did it because I imagined a huge payoff.

    4. My first experience with the PTR was that the sharagon system is really boring. The stat choices aren’t that interesting, and the increases are tiny.

      My second experience was that I was getting a whole bunch of level 61 items, even though I’m stuck at level 60. Presumably that’s a bug, or else buying RoS will be practically mandatory.

      • I spoke to Bobby and he confirmed its mandatory. If you don’t buy RoS, smart loot will stop working and you will be hit with a -100% mf hidden debuff.

        He is already upsad that his annual bonus took a hit with not so good CoD:Ghost sales and removal of D3 RMAH.

    5. I’ll ask again; why is this better than hunting down gems? Especially now that gems are soulbound? Stupid treadmill grinding that could be better served w/ a better item/crafting game.

      • You have both, since hunting down gems is an inevitable part of leveling up. The issue of gems interacting with paragon points is a balance point, since in the current system socketing diamonds in armor gives you must more return than anything else, due to the total points you need/want in the various properties.

        Diamonds give the same amount to all res as other gems give to attributes, like +70 from a Royal gem, but with good gear at lvl 70 giving a character maybe 8000 mainstat, 6000 vit, and 1400 to all res, there’s obviously a much higher fractional return from socketing diamonds. Gems would need to give 3-5x their current value to match up, though there you’d get into arguments about attribute points being amplified by things like defense, +%life, dodge, etc.

        That aside, the same issues impact where you spend PPs. Adding 5 per level to mainstat seems almost beside the point at high level, where all 50 would only get you 250 more to the attribute, which is negligible when you’ve got 8000 total. I guess +all res PPs are a bit more useful, adding up to 250 out of maybe 1500-2000 total, but AllRes still seems a pretty uncompelling PP target, when you can add 70 with one socket.

        • I think a few things should be changed to a percentage based bonus from Paragon. Attributes should have maybe a max 10-20% bonus at 50 points and the other bonuses should be reworked similarly as needed. It would suck for leveling, but I don’t think the main goal behind the Paragon system is to help low level characters.

    6. No limit on movement speed from the Core tab?

      • MS is still capped at 25% (before skills)

        • This. MS is 25% max from gear + paragon points. So when you bring in your lvl 60 from D3, you usually only want 1 or 2% MS from the PPs. Once you start upgrading your gear you’ll soon find something better than Lacunis or Inna’s Pants and at that point it’s nice to add 10% or so more MS from PPs, to keep up your speed. (I’ve yet to see any RoS legendary armor that grants MS other than on boots.)

    7. Why is Area Damage a picture of gold wile Gold Find is a flail with a heart?

      …Perhaps they’re backwards…

      Actually…. Flail + heart could be life on hit, gold = Gold Fine, But now the yellow one doesn’t fit anywhere. The blue guy may be better for Area Damage and the yellow guy can be Resource Cost Reduction.

    8. I was really enjoying having all my crafted items that I have had for 6 months all of a sudden being not equipable…lol.

    9. Oy, my Guardian Turret doesn’t drop at my feet! Wizard is baller fun now, although the light show pollution is even worse now; three Cold wizards flinging Orbs means you can’t see ANYTHING at all anymore.

    10. how Area Damage work ? for AoE skill only ?

      • Not sure yet. Splash Damage is still a new stat on items and it shows in your Character window, and adding Paragon Points to Area Damage does not change the basic Splash Damage display. We’ll get an explanation from Bliz or some testing to to figure it out.

    11. Utility tab: Area Damage, Resource Cost Reduction, +to maximum resource, Life on Hit, Gold Find.
      Emm +to max res? Looks like a miss, Flux. Max res can be found in a core tab. Del it.

    12. Non Core tab stats still have a cap, right?

      After wich you only get 1 point to spend, in core tab, every 4 levels?

      • After you max out all your non-core tabs you will get a core stat every level.

        • That’s so far into the future that it’s hardly worth considering. Very busy players enter RoS with like 200 PPs, and that’s players who have like, multiple Paragon 100s in D3. The highest I’ve heard of is mid-300s. So worrying about what your Core tab Paragon Points will spend on once you’re Paragon 801+ is sooooooooooooo far down the road…

    13. Just finished playing through Act 1 on the PTR with a fresh WD using the few paragon levels I have. Had 60 int from level 1, and it makes skills like Haunt unbelievably OP/fun to use, they just clear whole packs 😀 Not sure how much more testing I’m going to do…we’ll see

      • Paragon points are awesome with new chars. That’s when they are most impactful. End game you tend to stack them in areas to fill holes.

        We’ve discussed them on podcasts, but PPs are weird in that each new one seems almost irrelevant with the tiny bonuses, but they feel awesome in their bulk. So you hardly notice them as you are playing and leveling up, but 20 or 40 or 80 of them at once seems great.

        http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/on-the-drawing-board-25-paragon-2-0-no-feeling-of-character-progression
        The issue of individual characters not feeling like they’re growing or changing, especially once you’ve got a fair number of PPs so the leveling rate is very slow, remains…

    14. I never was able to get a BotD, but I did use Beast and Grief to good effect.

    15. Good one 🙂

      Yeah, whatever is dying is fighting the hardest to live on, if even just an additional, single moment…

    16. I still feel that they are going in the wrong direction with Paragon 2.0.

      What this reminds me of is vehicle combat in WoW. When players wanted vehicle combat, they imagined awesome and powerful vehicles that were very hard to obtain. Blizzard implemented them with a goal of making them as accessible as possible, so it was very easy to get a vehicle, but the trade off was they were very weak and boring. So what was once a potentially awesome addition to WoW became something pretty much universally hated.

      I have similar worries with Paragon 2.0.

      Paragon 2.0, should offer truly game-changing rewards, but they should be difficult to obtain, requiring either a time sink that takes 9 months or more, TRULY difficult quests that NEVER get nerfed, or both. I think it should offer things like special spells and skills, maphacks, an extra item slot, super mercs, etc. But these things are HARD to unlock.

      What they doing is making Paragon 2.0 easily accessible. Everyone will be able to use what they want in Paragon 2.0. As a consequence, the rewards must be weak, underwhelming, maybe even boring, and after a while it becomes a chore.

      This could be so much more, but they have to remove accessibility.

      • Pretty much on point.
        This is just more loss of costumization opportunity.

        If you only had X points to spend on each the last 3 tabs.
        Ex: You would have to choose armor OR life OR resist OR dodge, or combination.

        And you would choose them!! to complement your items/build.

        Meele chars might prefer dodge and armor since they are more commonly “in the fray”.
        Casters might prefer life and resist to complement their squishy build.

        They could actually be a meaningfull choice!

        Instead we get “everyone gets it” past Y time spent leveling, and as such they must be boring and lackluster. Why have it in the first place?

        • *Replace casters for ranged there. For better understanding.

          Cause you can have wizards in “meele” play mode. And crusader in “ranged” play mode. Choice!

    17. so much whining, all these old men never fail to amaze me.

    18. Is a pure dodge monk not possible/viable in ROS anymore now it’s been removed from the Paragon System? I would actually like to dodge nasty elite attacks with a decent chance :).

      • You will!

        No nephalem valor = no reason to kill elites on way to boss.

        Slowly making the game more like D2…
        Skip, skip, skip. Boss! Loot. Remake. haha

        • Random elites continue to drop as well or better than “bosses.” There is some skipping when doing bounties, especially if you’re looking for a dungeon level down, but that’s part of the fun. It’s actually fairly hard to skip Elites in RoS, especially if they’re on the same level as the Bounty boss; they tend to run after you pretty tenaciously.

          That aside… I’m curious; are you just bringing this up to hate about it, or do you honestly think it’s bad game design to make some things more valuable than others, thus giving players the option to choose what they kill and maybe skip some stuff if they want to?

          • B/c it turns into skipping everything but the good stuff. I noticed that the first day of FF beta, and it’s why they nerfed Bounties so hard. It was back to D2 bot-like skip, skip, skip to Bounty, rinse, repeat. If there were more and varied types of bounties (escort, defend, steal w/o hurting/killing something, crumbling vault, etc) then it’s not that big of a deal, but so far all of the randomized events (save crumbling vault) are pretty cut and dry. Even Starcraft 2 managed new and varied ways to change up the “build base, build army, destroy enemies” paradigm. Those missions, especially Heart of the Swarm, were a lot of fun. Diablo needs more quests and things to change up the play styles. This D2 bot-friendly skip stuff is for the birds.

    19. Hate!!! Joke.

      I like it! Reminds me of teleporting all the way Baal to throne room, then make portal and watching people zone in kill and stuff.

      Was fun, even with all the ttpk. Lost plenty chars like that in pub hardcore. But the adrenaline was there everytime. Amazing! 😀
      If they promote this… it can \maybe\ be a small steping stop in the way of adding more players per game. *wishfull*

      Also if end bosses become the main thing to be farmed. Or the bosses of bounties.
      It \means\ they will make them more \challenging\/diverse in the future. And challenge = fun.

      Maybe make a rare chance for bounty boss spawn with the old Invulnerable Minions. Or something like PoEs very rare boss mod that makes them drop higher quality and quantity loot.
      Or any other end/bounty boss specific modifiers.

    20. they are desperately trying to look like they know what they are doing while they know nothing. Almost. They know how to make fluid gameplay and fast paced combat, i give them that.

      Except they dont know how to make an ARPG title , good one. They dont know and they dont want to looser their jobs…we better pretend that the 4TH BIG ITEM PATCH IS GOING TO DO THE JOB!

    21. Wait… so is MF only from gear now or…?

    22. So sad that pick-up radius is gone from paragon 🙁

    23. You likely don’t see this much crying at a justin beiber concert. popcorn for all the drama. Seriously do people who enjoy the game for what it is just not comment?

    24. They really need to double mainstat/vitality bonuses.

      +5/+250 is nothing in RoS.

    25. What’s the max on resource reduction? 5%? I think that’s way too low to be woth the paragin points. It would be nice to have numbers in instead kf having to find a legendary ring to do the same.

    26. I have a question: do attributes (sth, dex & int) still give secondary bonus (armor, dodge, resistance)?
      If yes, I think it would be wiser to remove secondary bonuses from these attributes & only have them in the paragon system & on items…

    27. QUOTE

      I have a question: do attributes (sth, dex & int) still give secondary bonus (armor, dodge, resistance)?
      If yes, I think it would be wiser to remove secondary bonuses from these attributes & only have them in the paragon system & on items...

      Yes, although the scaling of Dodge is different than it is on live. I don’t know what the exact formula is.

    28. Man, why no ditching MF & Pickup radius sucks. Those 2 are very desirable stats.

    29. SIZE=3][B]NOT[/B][/SIZE] have to grind till your eyes bleed. This is just more tedious for new players. With way higher %’s in the paragon points and so few to invest in it’ll really make it work out better for build choices.
      The %’s are pitifully low so gear will still be depended on. Forcing you to grind levels for days with the stupid idea to not have a level cap.

      They should be higher, and keep the max level at 100 so you can only invest in a 100 paragon points(when each has a max of 50 or maybe reduce it to 25), and

      NOT have to grind till your eyes bleed. This is just more tedious for new players. With way higher %’s in the paragon points and so few to invest in it’ll really make it work out better for build choices.

    30. How are “pitifully low” %s forcing you to grind levels?
      Shouldn’t you be less interested in grinding those lvls if they dont offer much bonus.

      Anyway, yet another random paragon 2.0 idea:
      Keep it tretty much like now, except one big change.
      You can only have 1 bonus in each category active at a time. You can make 4 different combo sets to pick from, which can be changed in 1 second, at any time and anywhere (4 new keybinds).
      Changing anything in your 4 combos is however very costly.

      For example
      Combo 1: Main stat, crit chance, AR, Area dmg (some typical farming setup)
      Combo 2: Vit, cooldown reduction, life regen, life on hit (aka. ‘oh please god save me’)
      Combo 3: Max resource, attack speed, life regen. resource cost (‘give me ma energy back’ – could maybe have a regen on hit bonus as well)
      Combo 4: Main stat, crit dmg, AR, resource cost (for example if you had a skill that could proc higher crit rates for x seconds, you could maybe increase dps by siwtching to crit dmg instead for a few big attacks)
      etc.

      This means
      1) Paragon 200 can be as strong as a paragon 1000, just have less flexibility.
      2) Potential for more tactical and “twitchy” gameplay, where you can increase performance by juggling your paragon combos.

      Could also add more bonuses in a system like this, since it would always be balanced around only having 4 active bonusses. Such as individual resistance types etc for even more twitchy gameplay.
      Bonuses should continue to be fairly low though. Gear still ought to be the place where most of your bonusses come from imo.

      Im a bit inspired bySacred 2 here, which had “orbs” you could configure with the different dmg resistances, and switch between at will.

    31. QUOTE

      The %'s are pitifully low so gear will still be depended on. Forcing you to grind levels for days with the stupid idea to not have a level cap.
      They should be higher, and keep the max level at 100 so you can only invest in a 100 paragon points

      Alternativly you could spend points during you level up from 1-70 & paragon levels only give you magic find

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