Not the Most Beautiful Thing You’ve Ever Seen

Not the Most Beautiful Thing You’ve Ever Seen

This is meant to be the counterpart to the Most Beautiful Thing post from last week, though somehow I doubt quite as many of you guys will want to grab this one for your new wallpaper.

As you can see, this is the current (as of the DiabloWikiDiablo III Beta preview event at Blizzard two weeks ago) DiabloWikideath penalty in Diablo III. Not too harsh, for non-DiabloWikiHardcore characters, at least.

Update: I initially wondered if the durability loss was from current item durability or off of the max, but everyone in comments seems to think (approvingly) that it’ll be just like in World of Warcraft, where the 10% comes off your item’s maximum; e.g. your sword’s durability would go from 80/100 to 70/100, if you died.

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114 thoughts on “Not the Most Beautiful Thing You’ve Ever Seen

  1. I’d guess it follows the WoW durability model and it’s 10% lost from max durability…so you can die 10 times before your gear is destroyed.

    – Malignant

      • You would be wrong then, WoW gear does not take any kind of durability damage besided when you die.  In Diablo every attack and every time you get hit your gear takes durability damage.

          • I guess was wrong, (I looked it up) but I will say this, you could play for days in WoW and not need to repair your gear. That’s probably why I don’t remember durability loss other then the one from death.  On the other hand in D2 you had to repair just about every time you were in town.

        • theeliminator, what makes you think that durability will work the same way as d2? Maybe they might add durability or make it decrease at a different speed.

          • Well the repair system they had in D2 was good as a gold sink. (unfortunately it was really the only money sinks in D2)

            WoW had (in the beginning) a lot of money sinks like: skill trainers cost, trade skills cost, mount cost, repair bills, flight path cost, reagents cost(items used to cast some spells) AH listing cost, respec cost, Bank slot cost, Bag cost, Ammo cost, food and water cost. Some quests had items you had to get and they cost gold. There are also vanity items you can buy with gold.

            Diablo 3 doesn’t have as many (as far as we know) money sinks, repair, artisans, socketing items, enchanting, AH listing cost, and (maybe) unsocketing gems. So if there isn’t as many (and they don’t decrease the amount of gold that drops) they have to make the ones they have cost more either by raising the price or increase the number of times players will use them, so the repair system from D2 would do a better job then the one from WoW.

          • @theeliminator you forgot buying new spell/ability ranks, one of the biggest gold sinks. I remember on my first char (mage) strugling to buy spell ranks that unlocked at level 23, and I was lv30 at the time. Every one of your spells had ton of ranks (levels) and new one would open up every few levels. Then they removed them, I think in Cataclysm. Also, dualspecing (having two access to two specs instead of one on that char) when it was first made available in WoftL, it costed 1,000 gold. Now it costs 10g.

  2. Looks like you’re just looking for reasons to flame the game at this point. D2 didn’t even have this penalty (though you did lose some trivial gold), yet just the idea of dying pissed you off. D3 has a penalty which will effect an actually valuable currency, and you call it noob friendly? Inconsistent or just jumping into the whineboat to please the non-masses?

    What I’ll disagree with is pasting the loss of durability across the screen. It certainly looks dumb, almost as if death had become an industrial process. Adding it to the combat log (which I believe they will have) would be just fine.

    • What I found most absurd in the post is the totally unfounded guess that the durability loss will be based on current durability, not only because in WoW it is and always be based on max durability but also because it’s the most logic way to go.
      “Looks like you’re just looking for reasons to flame the game at this point.” Thought the same, honestly.

    • When did you last play D2? Death in D2 actually mattered. You lost gold (irrelevant), but you also lost experience, which might be hours of time to recover at high levels, plus you popped back to town and you were naked. Getting back to your corpse to re-equip could be difficult or impossible, and was at least inconvenient.

      In D3 your penalty is waiting 2 seconds to click a button, which warps you back to the last checkpoint, which is almost always less than 30 seconds from where you died. Assuming you can’t get a free res on the spot from a teammate. There’s no exp loss, no item loss, and minor durability loss as most. And you consider that a death penalty?

      That sort of mentality is why I’m looking forward to playing HC.

      • Might it be safe to assume that this durability loss is for normal difficulty only?

        IIRC (and I could be wrong) but in D2 normal diff you’d lose gold, nightmare you’d lose gold + a little XP, hell you’d lose gold + lots XP.

        If this death screen is from the beta (which is normal mode) then it’s nearly the same thing as before.  In D2 you’d lose some gold.  In this you lose some durability which requires gold (we assume?) to be repaired.


        • There’s no way this team will have exp loss on death. Even if so, you’ll be sixty when you beat hell anyway.

          And there’s the corpse run, or respawning the entire game, which D3 will not have.

      • Exp penalties are impossible in D3 because:
        1. There’s an easily achievable level cap.
        2. Grinding levels sucks, so exp penalites suck too.
        And I don’t recall making corpse runs in D2 that took me more than 30 secs…. 

        In game in which gold really matters, I believe it’s more than a decent penalty.
        Also what makes you so sure you won’t get “farmed” by some nasty mobs in NM/Hell?

        • What is this about an easily achievable level cap? Just because it’s 60 doesn’t mean it will take any less time than it took to get to 99 in D2 and could conceivably take much more time.

      • My level 99 didn’t care, that’s for sure.

        So, your main argument was that death in D2, you lost exp.
        In a game where dying was a challenge.

        You also forget that you only lost exp on nightmare/hell modes. This very death, that you posted, was probably done in normal mode. Yes, where you wouldn’t lose exp anyway. Get off the hateboat and think a bit. C’mon.

    • “Looks like you’re just looking for reasons to flame the game at this point.”
      I’ve thought Flux has looked for reasons to flame or stir controversy for awhile now… but he’s still the best news poster out there so it’s all good.

      • You know what’s really funny about this whole thing? Instead of talking about something good like “Diablo 3 isn’t as easy as a lot of people thought” it’s about how something in the game is similar to WoW that they need to talk about.

        To me that pic is beautiful it proves that even normal difficulty will be challenging to some.  It also gives me hope that the higher difficulties will be challenging to all.

  3. Of course it’s going to be 10% max durability.
    You guys are too dense to realize that Flux was joking obviously; hence his last comment.

    • If you ask me, almost every mechanic in WoW has a very well thought through reason behind it. But hey, I’m just a WoW fanboy.

      • Still, I think he has a more valid opinion in my eyes than most of the WoW haters on this website. And not just because he’s trying to defend a WoW mechanic.

      • He’s commenting on the community, not the game.
        I don’t see why so many people are completely oblivious to this. It can’t be made any more plain, can it?

        • This. My comment was based entirely on the unprecedented 8 or 10 posts in a row on this thread, all referencing WoW, without someone chiming in to say “WoW sucks/worst RPG evah!”  Like I updated the OP to say, I have no opinion on WoW other than what the various community memes about it are.

          Further sarcasm warnings: I don’t really think Bobby Kotick has glowing red eyes or solid gold plumbing fixtures in his guest mansion.

    • I’ve never played WoW, but a game mechanic is a game mechanic and I think we should judge mechanics to be good or bad based on their own merits rather than what games use them.
      10% of max durability seems like a pretty good punishment – it is permanent and if it happens too often your gear becomes useless. That’s pretty serious when you have some pet items you love. I rarely cared too much about XP loss because I stopped trying to level once I beat Hell difficulty. I’m also excited about Hardcore though.

      • I don’t think durability works the way you think it does.  Say your item has 80/80 durability.  You die.  You now have 72/80 durability.  You repair, you now have 80/80 durability.

        • We don’t know yet whether the 10% is off the maximum durability, or is just a wear-n-tear penalty. Right now most people are assuming it is a maximum penalty.

  4. What’s so bad about WOW? You guys do realize that WOW borrowed a lot of design ideas from Diablo, right?

    • Nothing, except maybe that you need to put in time and effort to get anywhere. Unlike D3. Haters gonna hate.

  5. HC dudes with unstable or shitty connections better get used to this screen (minus the durability loss and revive stuff ofc).

  6. I wonder how long it took them to die. Did they, perhaps, just sit there standing still, letting the monsters wail on them?

  7. So wait.  If it’s max durability that goes down how can that possibly be a good thing as some people are suggesting?  You think you will enjoy losing that insanely rare unique or, potentially, a high level rune word or a high level set piece.  Oh wait.  you get to make a choice between replacing the lost item with something not nearly as good or earn blizzard some money at the AH.  Congratulations.

    This game is about getting stuff.  With this inane design choice they are messing with a fundamental gameplay aspect inherent to Diablo.

    • This is actually where I’m confused. Are we losing 10% durability from maximum, or are we losing 10% of max dura from our current?
      So, for example, if our item is 20/20 durability and we die, does it drop to 18/20 or 18/18? The latter is a much more damaging loss (I’d probably say worse than an experience loss if it’s a fantastic item), but in no way is it a gold sink since it’s irreparable damage.

    • The max durability doesn’t go down, the 10% is based off the max. So if an item is at 10/100 and you die, the item will now be 0/100.

      • Ah. Thanks for explaining. I found it confusing as well.

        This would indeed be the best way to handle any durability loss at death.

    • You’re jumping to conclusions. Here’s a brief historical background on item and durability on past Diablo games:
      In Diablo 1, you don’t lose the item when durability hits 0.
      In Diablo 2, you don’t lose the item when durability hits 0.
      Heck even if you didn’t play Diablo 1 and 2..
      In WoW, you don’t lose the item when durability hits 0.

      • I think the only game in recent memory I’ve played that had items bust when they hit 0 durability was UO. And that was a really long time ago.

        • Crap.  There was another, but, for the life of me, I can’t remember right now.  The item would just disappear from your inventory when it hit zero.

          • Outside of UO and D1 (which went without saying, I thought) I dunno. Maybe Brotherhood of Steel? Did that even have gear? I can’t remember.

      • Pretty sure in Diablo 1 you did lose the item when durability hit 0.
        Source: memory, and 2 Diablo wikis (including ours).

        • Yes, items vanish, permanently, at 0 durability in D1.  As there’s absolutely no possibility in a billion years any current or future Blizzard game would have that harsh a punishment for anything in any game ever for any reason, I don’t see that it’s even worth mentioning in this debate?

  8. Even if it’s really 10% of max durability, it doesn’t certainly mean that after 10 deaths the item is broken.
    If after first death only 90% is left, after second death it can be 90% of that new decreased durability, which means 0.9*0.9=0.81 – 81% from initial durability.
    If it works this way, any amount of deaths can happen, the item will just become less and less durable. Of course, it also depends on when and how the numbers are rounded.

    • well actually using Gear ; hitting stuff and getting hit , will probably also decrease durability … so whats all this fuzz about ?

    • I don’t think that’s how it works.  10% of max durability (and max dura doesn’t go down). 10 deaths and you’d be at 0 durability (100%, 90%… 10%, 0%).  Repair, you’re back up to 100%.

      • well if that is so – it would be unlike every RPG Blizzard has ever created . do you have quote to back your statement up ? i mean afaik even in dia 1 it was only with the scroll ?

        • It’s how it works in World of Warcraft, and everything we’ve seen about D3 indicates that is the durability system they will use in D3.  Items permanently losing durability and eventually being unusable is completely contrary to the RMAH.  Also AFAIK they intend durability to be a gold sink.  If items permanently lose durability, there’s far less repairing, and it’s not much of a gold sink.

          • i agree with you on ” the maximum durability is always unaffected” – stuff
            but when i played WoW 3 years ago, you would lose durability all the time (even without dying)
            i played a rogue – thus i always used my weapons , and was hit , because iam in melee range,
            maybe you played Mage and killed / crowd controlled everything before it came to you ? and as mage you also would never use melee attacks – thus you rarely lose durability on either weapon nor armor , without dying, that is.
            maybe it got “patched” and you are right ; i dont know.

          • Heh, i never said anything about durability loss outside of death.  I’m pretty sure you will lose durability from taking hits and attacking, just like in WoW.
            What i meant by the “less repairing” is that if your items permanently lose maximum durability, you repair less often compared to if they do.  But, thinking about it, it might be equivalent.

  9. Regarding the edit:
    What happened is that the new information being released about Diablo 3 is so scary for everyone, that they look to WoW for comfort 🙂

  10. So thats the screen of death for the hard core player huh?

    Question: If we now have a max of 6 abilities, then why does it look like there’s 7 slots? The first 4 (I assume the 5th one is potion only), left mouse button, right mouse button and the right mouse button swap button.

    Can anyone enlighten me please?

    • The 7th looks like “autoattack”, but i could be wrong.
      And no that’s not the HC death screen, HC you don’t lose durability, you just die for good.

      • Hang on. I thought they still have the right button swap but they just no longer have the skill slot shown on the interface. So they have totally gotten rid of the right mouse button swap altogether? Can anyone confirm this (ie, someone who toyed with it back in late july)?

  11. I am a little bit confused, so someone please set me straight at that.
    When I have sword with, let’s say 20 max durability an 16 durability right now, when I die, will my sword be 20/14 or 18/14?
    I somehow believe it would be option one, although I would really love to see the second one. Then, especially on high levels with top gear, death would really matter. It would also be a damn good gold sink, because not only would you have to pay gold to repair the item, but after 10 deaths your items would be destroyed and you would have to pay gold or $/€ to get new gear.
    With the casual friendly way (I do not mean that as a negatiev thing, well not entirely) Blizzard is going on about DIII, I can’t see option two happen, although it would mean more cash through the RMAH for Blizzard.

    • 10% off the max. So if you have an item with 100 maximum durability, no matter how much durability it currently has, it will lose 10 if you die. Unless it’s already broken or about to be, because then it’s just broken.

  12. It would be really frustrating if you permanently lost max durability.  It takes forever to find good gear, and the thought that every time you die it is permanently getting worse would be a major fun-kill for me.
    Yes, I know it is nothing compared to hard-core.  But I want to play for fun, and for me losing stuff I spent hours on because I didn’t realize this mini-boss had a bad set of enhancements is not fun.
    If you just lose current durability, that is no biggie.  They could take your stuff down to 5% and force you to do a town run for all I care.  It would still be way better than the D2 system.  To get your gear back, you’d have to return to where you died.  Often this required equipping some backup gear, or you’d die again just trying to get back.  Then, when you find your body, your inventory is too full for your regular gear + backup so you can’t pick up some stuff.  Really easy to lose gear with other players around, lost connection, etc.

    • Since when was the death penalty permanent? wouldn’t that be a poor way to get people to spend gold, break there stuff and don’t let them repair it? oh btw you wont work hours to get some super special awesome item and than die a couple times and lose it forever, thats not how blizzard would ever design it.

    • you got it all wrong you lose Minimum durability based on your max durability
      100/100 -> die -> 90/100
      i hope etheral gear returns – in a more powerful faishon – to make them all around interesting there should be mats that can only be salvaged from etheral weapons.

  13. OMG!!! If this is the thing that I think it is then Blizzard are evil geniuses.
    Items losing part of their maximum durability on death is clever way to clean the market from endgame gear.
    And if Blizzard are bad(which they are) that 10% is only for normal difficulty. It will be 20% for nightmare and 30% or 33,(3)% for hell. Then death will be expensive stuff in D3 indeed. $^_^$

    • blah blah blah blizzard is so evil etc etc etc. I swear its the swan song of the troll these days. There is no evil genius at blizzard short of Bobby Kotick so relax.
      Go to the blacksmith and repair your gear. I don’t see what the big deal is for everyone speculating that this 10% is a permanent thing. It won’t be I can promise you that.

      • You misunderstand me. In fact I admire that durability loss thing. It perfectly fits the RMAH conception. That’s why I say they are evil geniuses – dying in D3 will be more painful than dying in D2.

  14. I think this is their way to make items disappear in the economy. Since diablo 3 now is always online and you can sell your items in auction houses anytime you want, high level items will always circulate and let’s say after 1.5 years, this items will just pile up and obviously no one would manually destroy them using that “pulverize box, forgot its name” since it would be more profitable to sell them to newer players. They could either implement a server reset like the ladder resets in d2 or this mechanism that an item is destroyed after several deaths to balance out the economy

    • A better option would be to make the items bind on equip.  That would also remove them from the circulation but without the enevitable loss due to dying.

      • But opportunistic people would not bind items for themselves if they know they could sell it for a good amount of a good amount of $. But its possible. Maybe a “max no. of owners” mechanism that if a certain has been owned by a certain number of people. The item would not be traded anymore. But hey we are not the developers. Just like the post above me has mentioned. Blizzard developers are evil geniuses.

        • Yeah, but an item is valued because people want to use it. So eventually SOMEONE would equip the item, and it would bind, thus taking it out of circulation. If no one ever wanted to equip it, then why would it be worth buying in the first place??

  15. I think the permanent loss of durability is a great idea! Except when I think about the auction house…It would most likley add another variable to consider when buying an item… Hmmm

    • Where is permanent writen? I want to see where it says “You have permanently lost durability”

  16. It will never* happen.
    They wont first take RMAH out of HC because ‘we wont let people buy items they lose on death’, and then afterward make people lose items on death.
    *Never being defined as until Kotick calls them and overrules it

  17. I have to say I was fine with a lot of stuff many people had problems with.  From the color palette to the online only play, to the RMT, you name it.  But if this max durability loss thing is real, that’s a dealbreaker for me.

  18. Diablo 1 had max durability loss. When you repaired you item yourself in the field, it lost some max durability (e.g. sword is at 1/20 dur. Repair in field, now has 17/17 dur).  I think you could only do this with a warrior, though.
    But I would be very surprised if that is the durability loss we’ll see in D3. It will be like this: Sword at 10/20, die. Now sword at 8/20. Just repair it to be back to 20/20.

  19. 10% durability loss isn’t harsh enough. YOU DIED. All your crap should be broken 100%, down to 0 durability. Then repairs would be a true gold sink.

    • People can go hardcore if they want really harsh penalties. This is one of those areas where you can’t satisfy everyone. 100% durability loss (assuming you don’t mean permanent) means spending money, but how much? It depends on how costly it is to repair, so why not just skip the middle-man and have a gold penalty?

      • well first off all who is talking about maximum durability ?
        second i would like to see harder penalties for death – – 100% sounds a little hard – i would go with something like 30% durability loss ~ – 5% exp of your current level
        additionally – if i an item breaks(e.g. 0/100 durability) the repair cost of that item should be ~100%-200% higher per durability repaired.
        i mean if you play like suicide bomber you should also pay like one – i think you should get a reason to reconsider your strategy / build /gear – and not just respawn like a lemming as often as it is required until a mobpack / boss is dead.
        and i think that those penalties are still very mild given that “townportals” returned. so stfu if you think that this is too “hardcore” :p

  20. Having now read the comments, i was confused at why so many ppl are confused.  Then i realized ppl like myself who have played WoW assume D3 will have that same durability system (and it seems certain to me that will be the case).  The other Diablo players are confused, because of how the meaning of durability has changed in each game, fom d1 to d2 to d3.

  21. stfu you “wow-like” theres nothing to say like “i think its like wow” because it IS like wow… and it’s ok.
    durability needs to be repaird = gold loss per death… gold is worth something in d3 so I think the penalty won’t be a shot into the blue but a respective gold loss… I think better items will cost more to be repaired later on.

  22. Max makes way more sense, not because “that way it’s like WoW, LOL”, but because if it’s from current, then the game monetarily rewards waiting until your gear is almost broken to repair it, instead of repairing it whenever is convenient. Under the “10% of current” system, if you die when your gear is at 100/100, you have to pay for 10 units worth of repair as a result of the death, but if your gear is at 10/100, you have to pay for 1 unit worth of repair as a result of the death. That anyone would even think that it makes sense to punish people more or less severely for dying depending on how broken their gear is at the time is ludicrous.  It’s 10% of max because that way the penalty for dying (gold-wise) doesn’t depend on how busted your gear happens to be at the time.

    • well i doubt that the gold outlet is so low that you are barely able to repair your gear ,if you play “moderate” i mean thats not even the case in WoW. that being said – i think that penalties for repair cost on completely trashed gear are reasonable. i mean even if this is just a game ; you should always have a sense of self preservation, not just ” woah i died – no problem the last checkpoints is 30 seconds ago lets just right walk back in”

  23. why play diablo 3 if i already play wow? this game is a joke. almost everything resembles wow, they took every idea that work in wow. they took away the identity of the franchise for what one may ask, to fix things? lol, i dont think so. its almost like the they are trying to please and lure the 11 million wow fanbase into another buy. i am follow the news to see if diablo 3 has anything to surprise me till beta video pop in youtube, but im not buying it the way it is today   i prefer playing wow, d3 is simply isometric wow and im happy already with my other game   PS to the devs: instead of going the easy path and removing what doesnt work in d2 and replacing with what works in wow, why dont you guys try better next time and actually FIX the system instead of axing it?

    • I hope that it won’t be the WoW way too. The X deaths-no gear system looks more fun and challenging. That fits better to Diablo game. And it still will be easier than hardcore where one death means no more gear at all.

  24. Mindlessly wandering through a game unafraid of dying is lame! Especially in Diablo… How about 3 styles of play….? Normal, Hardcore, and Pussy!

  25. Flux, do you also have a shot with an opened inventory? I was wondering if the nephalem cube, stone of recall and cauldron of jordan replaced the talisman space now.

  26. It’s always funny to me to see people bash World of Warcraft when high-level raiding in World of Warcraft is far, far more difficult than Diablo 1, 2, or 3 will ever be.  I suppose hardcore mode has harsher penalties for failure, but I don’t think it changes the fact that despite all the theorycrafting and gear maxing, it takes a lot more time and work to perfect a challenging raid encounter with 9-24 other intelligent people than it ever will to kill ArchDemon Tyrael or whatever. And I say this as someone who is far more excited for D3 than I ever was about WoW when I played it.  But the idea that the whole game is kiddie mode is so overplayed around here.  Oh, and the gnarliness of some of WoW’s corpse runs>>>>>>> D2.

    • well i played WoW and most of the time it`s not the “hard” encounter , you have to deal with, rather its the incompetence of fellowraiders. i mean i know it can happen once in a while , that a player slips , and wipes the whole raid. but if there are 40 / 25 / 10 people , that can happen suprisingly often.
      that was especially apparent in vanilla when you needed 40 people to work together – over long periods of time. 3h in a row was standart. 8h in a row (with small pauses) were still very common.
      so yeah you are right , the group effort you needed was kinda remarkable, but the individual effort was pretty moderate.
      the effort in d2 isnt too extreme either if you know how – but iam confident that diablo 3 will put up a bigger challange
      i `d rather see them overtune the difficulty by 30% at hell / inferno than undertune it .

    • You mean Hellfire oils? I would love that, they were a great mechanic and would be a very attractive expansion feature.

  27. Just make it so the items lose 10% of their maximum durability permantently, and you’ll have a decent penalty.

    • And piss a shitload of people off when they lose their favourite items, blizzard isn’t going to punish you in a way that just fustrates the crap out of you, esspiecally cause the noobs dieing all the time will be like “I LOSE ALL MY STUFF WTH!! T.T” and we all know how much blizzard wants to accomidate D3 to people who don’t care that blizzard is accomidating to them.

      • Why the hell is everybody so damn worried about some shitty durability loss, it’s as if y’all to lazy to pay gold to repair, wich btw is already on auto-pickup fuck!

        • How in the world do you not understand by this point in the thread that people are referring to loss of MAX durability and not repairable durability? i.e. When your MAX reaches 0, the item is broke or disappears and is no longer repairable.

          I mean really… How are people still missing/not understanding the difference by this point?

  28. If Blizzard would just put the game out already we could shut up and play, since they won’t…
    I’m really disappointed in Blizzard’s lack of originality.  Twelve years later and Starcraft 2 didn’t even have a 4th race.  That is truly pathetic, and ultimately disappointing.  It also shows they truly lack the sack to experiment.   How hard would it have been to throw in some elemental race, or mythological type race for example?  I’m not buying any expansion to Starcraft 2, nor any game beyond Diablo 3 if they don’t get their “game” back.
    It also seems nearly everything they have implemented in Diablo 3 is ripped off of other games in one way or another.  It could be the other way around…but I doubt it.

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