Not Everyone is So Happy with D3…

We’ve had an interesting mixture of events lately in the Diablo 3 community, with fan rage over cancelled features interspersed with fan joy over “signs of release” — such as Blizzard sending out about 10x more beta invites in the past three days than they had during the previous 4+ months. Not everyone is won over by the fact that D3 is (apparently) finally starting to accelerate towards a release date, though.

A fan posted a rant about ways D3 sucks compared to D2 today, and got a quick reply from Bashiok. I’m not going to quote the rant since it was weak and full of complaints about changes LONG since made, but here’s Bashiok’s reply:

The feedback from the vast majority of players, and we actually track, document and build reports on this stuff, is overwhelmingly positive. You’re entitled to your opinion, but let’s not make sweeping statements to try to justify them. Be the proud and the few! We’re not trying to remake Diablo II, though. That’s not going to jive with everyone, and that’s ok.

I’d be curious to see that feedback. Obviously we’ll never get the raw data, but the general forum conversation from beta testers is in no way “overwhelmingly positive.” Pretty much everyone says something positive, but pretty much everyone has a number of critiques or dislikes as well. Maybe the raves are all coming from casuals who aren’t talking about their beta experience in the forums? Could be, but Bashiok’s previously said that most people who get a D3 beta invite play 1 or 2 chars in solo games and then never log on again… and it seems pretty unlikely all that positive feedback is coming from people who lost interest in playing D3 after 2-3 hours.

How about feedback from someone who did play the beta, and was anything but positive, much less overwhelmingly? Here’s why Mr_Bartuc, a long time active member of the Diablo 3 community, says he won’t be playing Diablo III or ever again giving Blizzard any of his money. Here’s an excerpt; click through (or hit the original forum thread) for his full argument. I don’t agree with some of his issues, or his conclusion, but he makes some good points.

I did get into the beta, and I wasn’t impressed. I played for up to a week. The half zombies crawling out of bushes got old very quickly. The wretched mothers constantly vomiting. The humans transforming upon your entrance to a room (like they waited for that moment). The amount of cheesy laughter in dungeons as well as laughing skeletons. The buildings that crumble when you cross an invisible line (happens almost every time you pass a ruin), the townsfolk that talk when you cross an invisible line. The quest system that throws you back and forth abit, to the east of the town to the west, to the waypoint to the graveyard. The voice acting that’s way over the top and way enthusiastic. Stereotyped characters (eg asian is super asian, blacksmith being heavily scottish). The annoying names some carry (john Darrrrrrrrrrr, Kormac)… I’m not even sure there are two people in the town with a common accent?

The full non-rage quit post is here. See the full forum thread for lots of discussion of the issues, skeptical “you’ll be there day one with cash in hand” replies, and some follow ups from Mr_Bartuc.

my last post here. I’m out

Me and mates have decided to pass on the game. We’ve been tossing it up for awhile, but finally after more features were taken there is nothing left of the game.

So for starters, we’ve been waiting over 3 years now. I’ve never seen a company handle a game in this way, reiterate systems so much that it makes you wonder if they even know what they’re doing. The removal of the death animations was the final nail in the coffin for me, they’ve actually removed the cuts and slashes the barbarian gets on his skin through battles too.

I did get into the beta, and I wasn’t impressed. I played for up to a week. The half zombies crawling out of bushes got old very quickly. The wretched mothers constantly vomiting. The humans transforming upon your entrance to a room (like they waited for that moment). The amount of cheesy laughter in dungeons as well as laughing skeletons. The buildings that crumble when you cross an invisible line (happens almost every time you pass a ruin), the townsfolk that talk when you cross an invisible line. The quest system that throws you back and forth abit, to the east of the town to the west, to the waypoint to the graveyard. The voice acting that’s way over the top and way enthusiastic. Stereotyped characters (eg asian is super asian, blacksmith being heavily scottish). The annoying names some carry (john Darrrrrrrrrrr, Kormac)… I’m not even sure there are two people in the town with a common accent?

I think you can see where I’m going with this, it’s a major crapfest, like it was made in RPG maker.

But then before you go “oh this game isn’t for you” blah blaghbghbhj. Well hang on, I played Diablo 1 and 2 and with those games comes a certain quality expectation for the third. I was disappointed with the fantasy art direction but like most, I bit the bullet and accepted it saying “ok it’s blizzard they can still pull it off”. But then came the crappy armors, how many times we raged when the monk was announced, to the giant WoW shoulderpads, to the garbage can and starfish wizard hat, to the demon hunters high heals/lip gloss/glowing eyes and exact night elf physique minus the ears?

Now, the icing of the cake is how there isn’t enough time for the monk skill animations to include his weapons. How sad is that?

Simplified tooltips. As if 200 weapon percent wasn’t simple enough they go and simplify to “shoots fire out of hands”. So tell me now this was a game made for a mature audience. Honestly, who didnt understand the tooltips in the beta!?

ok so, here’s how it plays out now. You don’t have to worry about skill points or stat points, it’s all done for you. You dont have to worry about potions now, because you just walk into a health globe. Don’t worry about anything, just grind items and that’s it. Right click an item to identify for free, unlimited town portals for everyone! Don’t worry about picking up gold just summon a pet (I know they took it out, for now). So how does D3 differ from a facebook game right now ?

Vanilla WoW was the best thing to come out of blizzard and everything that came after has been rubbish. They screwed up with the WoW expansions, they screwed up with SC2 and D3. And now you can see that with the current state of WoW, they will get it wrong with their upcoming mmo. I won’t even buy that, I’ll be like “oh it’s made by blizzard, that company is the worst”. Blizzard have mastered trolling, they got to me. I get it, grats blizz. They’re worse than Nintendo, ok now I’m just raging.

So you get the point, I’m out. My mates are out, everyone I’ve talked to in person is on edge about it. You’re all debating about it like usual, biggest nonstop controversial game ever. You are welcome to quote me and correct/deny my opinion but I’m still out. No not “he’ll buy the game anyway”. No, the way blizzard have handled this- I will not contribute and turn this into “game of the year”/”1 million copies sold in first week” god no. I will not give blizzard my money. I can wait another year for the cracked game and I wont even play that. That’s right, I wont play blizzards work for free even. byeeeee

I’ll echo my hypothetical comment on this from the forum thread. Is there a point at which your pride forces you to cut off your nose to spite your face? Even if you know you’ll enjoy D3, maybe you just feel that some of the changes to the game, or to how Blizzard handles things these days, are too much to swallow? And you want to vote with your wallet, even though you know you’ll miss playing?

That’s a sort of pride and integrity that most of us do not have, which is exactly what Blizzard is counting on.

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212 thoughts on “Not Everyone is So Happy with D3…

  1. “That’s a sort of pride and integrity that most of us do not have, which is exactly what Blizzard is counting on.”
    Exactly. Gaming industry have changed – developers are no longer dependent on customers, customers are dependent on developers.

    • I’d beg to differ.  The way the gaming industry is going (as a whole), it’s digging its own grave.  I don’t want to get into a giant discussion, but I’d say developers are more dependent on customers.  Just look at social and mobile gaming where people have tens of thousands of options for games, many of them completely free.  It’s all about the lowest common denominator, and it can be hard to compete when dozens or hundreds are giving their product away for free.  You want to grab a customer and pray they latch on, because these days it’s extremely easy for the consumer to find something else to occupy their time.

      That being said, quality does (usually) have a price. I’m not saying D3 isn’t worth the price, or saying there’s an equally good free equivalent, I’m just saying there are so many options now that devs and publishers really want that retention rate more than ever.

      • He is not, actually this whiner represents a niche of whiners with valid points being me, one of them.

        • so you’re actually a whiner :P?
          just joking, its ok not to be confident with the game, but it is common sense that not everyone can be pleased and “I WONT PLAY THE GAME EVEN IF YOU SAY “BAAAH SEE YOU BACK THEN WHEN D3 IS OUT”” is just getting on my nerves… and it is whining ^^

        • simplified tooltips?  Humans turning into zombies as the character walks by?  The demon hunter looks like a night elf???? REALLY?  Give me a break.  These aren’t valid points, these are rantings of a maniac who was never an actual diablo fan.  Seriously diablo 3 certainly has its problems, but these complaints are absolute rubbish.  You realize, i hope, that there are HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS of zombies already turned wandering the cathedral i hope?  Yet one human turns zombie in front of your eyes and its unbelievable?  Stupid.  You really are going to quit the series you love because of TOOLTIPS that can be fixed by HOLDING CONTROL?  Asinine.  Demon hunter looks like a night elf?  Retarded.  One game is fixed isometric, the other is full 3d with rotating camera… none of the characters look anything alike.  Sheer lunacy.

  2. Yeah, but how much of that feedback is from grandmothers and non-gamers who now “like” some of the more dumbed down or removed aspects of the game?  Because it seems relatively clear what goes through their focus tests, to a degree, of course.  And lets face it, grandmothers need Diablo, too.
    You could get overwhelmingly positive feedback from a group of noobs/idiots/insert-name-here… that doesn’t necessarily make it a good or fun game.
    Then again, for all we know, Bash is seemingly wrong on the surface (surprise!) and Blizzard actually has managed to craft a game my grandmother can play, but that is also deep and challenging for the rest of us.

    • Market analysis is based on statistical aggregation of data that spans across carefully calculated demographics.

      Sweeping generalizations like the one you just wrote is just outright wrong. Perhaps you didn’t mean to come off in such a linear manner, but I surmise that more time has gone into researching their audience than on the game. Or at least a comparable amount of time.

      You can be sure that Bobby and Co. have made sure of that.

      • Except for the fact that they’ve actually come out and said “We let our [grandma/little brother/gibbering Rhesus monkey] play the beta, and it was very informative perspective-wise!”  You can’t just have blind faith they’ll get everything right just because “It’s Blizzard”. How many of the people from D1/D2 actually remain to give it that level of credibility?

        More and more I’ve started to fear that D3 : D2 :: Brawl : Melee. It’s the third game, made by a mostly different set of people adhering to different priorities. Neither has (or seems to have, I still hold out hope for D3) that “raw” feel, gritty but technically sound, that their predecessors had in spades. They lost sight of making a fun play experience to make it the kind of play experience they want for everyone.

        Like I said, I hope I’m wrong, but we can’t be “sure” of anything at this point; it’s all one iteration away from madness

        • D1 and D2, who were made by “divine and perfect” Blizzard North (as in can’t make mistake) also adhered to the “mom test” over which people here raise so much fuss. Schaefer admitted it, they uses mom test as a way to make sure that both D1 and D2 are accessible for all people, and have extremly low enter reqs in terms of general game knowledge. But, hey, don’t let me spoil your pointless, nostalgia-overdosed, raging.

    • Your grandmother could probably play through the game on normal, and then the ladder difficulties are deeper and more challenging.

      That’s usually how games work.  

      In super smash bros, a blindfolded monkey can beat a rank 1 computer-player. While it’s pretty damn hard to beat a rank 10.

      get it? 

      All this whine about the game is too easy is starting to make me sick.

    • +üoiahsvnpoihfspiwaspefhspefgoph<joen gphnpoasERHPAoseihfpogvshrfpgo<iashen opsjpoA<CENFRGVÜASEPPO< OHETPOS NBGÜPA<IJSPOTHCATJINBÜSACPVOATPENOJHOP
      well so thats î î î î your opinion nough said

    • People keep citing “removed” aspects of the game. That is a practice all developers do for all games. If something isn’t working, they remove it. The public rarely sees this stuff and even if they do, it is after the game has been out. Blizzard is being unusually transparent about the process and it is biting them in the ass because most uninformed people don’t realize it is just a development process and attack them for it. I won’t be surprised if Blizzard takes a much less transparent approach in the future because of this.

      • “isn’t working” = I just thought of a way to increase transaction fees by removing X feature!  cha-ching!

    • The reason why your post is blatantly wrong is because of the generalisation. The basic premise of your post is, if I don?t like something about the game, if something I like has been removed, or something I don´t like has been added, it must be because of the casuals. You are esentially blaming casuals for any and all bad things about the game.

  3. A lot of the things Bartuc mentioned that he didn’t like were very superficial aspects of the game, and not exactly limited to just the third entry in the series. I maintain that he, like many others, are seeing the previous instalments through rose-tinted specs. He says he got bored of the beta (considering it’s repeatedly playing over a short, boring part of the game it’s not a huge surprise), so if he legitimately doesn’t enjoy playing the game either, then fine, he’s justified in not wanting to spend money on it. For the majority of us it remains to be seen whether or not Diablo 3 will be an enjoyable game to play. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t miffed when I read the death animations were out, but after a couple of days I thought to myself – if I enjoy how the game plays, does it really even matter?
    And besides, Blizzard are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. They have to make choices, and those choices will please some people and anger others. They can’t please their entire audience, it’s nigh-on impossible. If we didn’t see them making these changes then we would have solemnly accepted the design decisions when we picked the game up on release. It’s only because we’re seeing an idea we liked removed for one we don’t that we’re actively getting angry about it all.

    • “They have to make choices, and those choices will please some people and anger others.”
      True, though many of the choices they’ve made aren’t exactly 50/50 chance of fan hate/glee.

      Some things are solely subject to taste I admit, as I was thoroughly baffled when I read: ‘how many times we raged when the monk was announced’.

      The Monk is easily the sole reason I started paying attention to D3. Overplaying D2 got me really, really tired, and I didn’t think I’d want another go. But the aspects of the Monk, to me, really is that interesting. People raged over the Monk??? :S

      • Strange, isn’t it! One man’s rubbish is another man’s treasure, and I’m sure it’ll be the same with this. There always seems to be a glut of hate whenever a feature’s announced, but most often that ides away as people get used to the idea (not that they necessarily ever like it!)

        • I agree totally.  I shouldn’t continue to be surprised at how people can get deeply offended by an opinion different from theirs.  The reactions to the opinion can be hugely different too, one person will shrug it off and think fair dos, you really love that aspect but I don’t whereas others will need a change of underwear they’re so beside themselves with rage.

          I sincerely believe at the end of the day it’ll be like the picture flux put at the end of the news item though. 😉

          • There’s something to be said for diplomacy. Telling a bunch of people that their most anticipated game looks like it was made in RPG maker isn’t the best way to encourage a healthy discussion. Of course, being mild mannered never got much results on the internet.

          • But that’s Mr Bartuc’s opinion and if you agree or not he’s entitled to say it is he not?  I don’t think his post was undiplomatic either, I’ve seen opinion presented in far less diplomatic ways on the forums and even in the comments in the news.  But, I must admit we don’t really have a rule that members have to post in a diplomatic manner, just civil really, good manners and all that.  I think it’d be a hard rule to enforce anyway.

            Anyway, his post is linked in the news item so you could always tell him you don’t think his post is particularly diplomatic, if you’ve not done so already.

          • Haha yeh. It’s almost as though people take it all as a personal insult. But in the end it says a lot to how much people liked Diablo 2, and their vision of D3 is obviously of a perfect game. It obviously can’t happen, and I guess some people are willing not to play the game rather than have their dream dashed :/ A few more years on their shoulders will probably give them a better perspective, though.
            And yes, I wouldn’t be surprised!!

    • Right, but i can understand him. He points out some things, that are right at te moment. D3 is NOT D2, sure, but it messed with them. I havent played it so far, but only from the facts i would say, D3 will never reach to the playbility of D2. Why? No Skillpoints, Levelcap, a normal Level that seems to play in god mode and so on.
      For me personaly, the levelcap is stupid. What is when i reach the cap? Play only for items? Oh right, theres the achievments. Pff, a trolling banner where i can pose. If prefer that thing with level 99 and the D2 exp reduce in 5 Level steps. But ok, thats personal reasons.
      Sure, i will buy, it, will try Hardcore and surly the RMAH, but i cant imagine, that i will play it 5 or 7 years like D2. Sorry Blizz, i can unterstand Centurys post, the direction of the development imho is wrong and so the spirit is gone!!!

      • @Coolhawk No…. You sir have rose tinted glasses as well. The level cap makes the end-game more balanced. It will give you much more of a challenge and you will need to use your skills correctly. Having a level cap lets developers determine how to tune end game content, thus it makes a more engaging, and much more fun game overall.
        Now now… You do realize they want to add more content yes? Not having a level cap,, well 99 which was impossible,,, didn’t add anything* to Diablo 2. All Diablo 2 had to offer was the endless grinding of bosses, and afk’ing in baal runs? Fun? NO.  😛

        • Well, the playstyle has also a development like anything else. But for the first two years, Boss runs wasent so effective like today. For me i can say, my Necro played most of the time solo to Level 92 in CLASSIC HC, not the damn Addon. And if you can remember, the skill would not change after a reach of level 70 or 75? Right, i dont now, how many times i run the flame river up and down, sometimes it was surly boring, but anyway, i moved up with exp, very slowly, but i moved up.
          I cant imagine, i had the same fun now whe i reach level 60. Your opinion with a better balanced game is ok, but dont you mean, that some ppl find a way, to get the fastest exp or so? Time will tell. But its my style to play, the ladder was a personal challenge, its not a must, that all ppl must like.

          • Problem is you both have points. Some people liked being able to get to 99. For many others there’s just no point. And Blizzard took it out for whatever reason – all we can do is trust that they know what they’re doing. And after all, they have a lot more experience than we do. They hardly want to ruin the game/franchise.

      • Level 99 was unachiveable for the average player after 1.10 hit – I stopped counting it as even existing and planned my chars for level 90 as cap. So, effectively, the cap did nothing for me except for being a number.
        Seriously, you should enjoy playing your characters and, for me, joining game after game after game just to kill Baal wasn’t fun at all. On top of that, if you made a single mistake, you lost several million xp, which again translated into more bloody Baal runs…

        Another thing I’ve always disliked about leveling in D2 is that you’ve got all these nice, cool, funky and awesome abilities – but you can’t actually use them. Playing a Barbarian is a freaking nightmare, up until level mid 40 where you can equip the gear needed to sustain actually using your abilities… If you’re starting from scratch and can’t find said gear, you’re screwed.

        Being a fan of ‘Diablo’, I’m willing to wait and see.

    • Haha I completely agree with you Wowreally. This site is Notorious for dishing out shit to the Diablo community. What flux doesn’t seem to realize is this kind of stuff is very disrespectful to the Diablo 3 development team. They have spent alot of time working on this game, to bash it on a Fansite dedicated to them. Flux, you wouldn’t have income coming in on this site w/o em’.
      Oh wait…. That’s right Flux knows it’s disrespectful… He just has his head so far up Max Schaffers ass you can no longer see him!!!  😆

      PS: Flux, you were wondering why you weren’t invited to Aug 1 event last year?
      This is why!

      • Oh boy, you take those words right out of my mouth! And while I still come back to this side to get the latest news I am growing more and more discontent by the way they are presented. Obviously, this fosters a certain type of community as well and this I dislike even more.

      • “Haha I completely agree with you Wowreally. This site is Notorious for dishing out **** to the Diablo community. What flux doesn’t seem to realize is this kind of stuff is very disrespectful to the Diablo 3 development team. They have spent alot of time working on this game, to bash it on a Fansite dedicated to them. Flux, you wouldn’t have income coming in on this site w/o em’.”
        Yeah Flux, Leave Diablo 3 development team ALONE!!!! *cries under a blanket*
        And fanbois call everyone who doesn’t like diablo 3’s current direction whiny… 🙄

      • Oh noes, we might hurt the feelings of the people trying to milk us like dairy cows.  Won’t someone think of the devs!?  I call BS.  Every decision since they figured out that they could actually get away with implementing the RMAH has been about greed and not work ethic or game play.  Yes, it is common practice (and common sense) for a company to maximize their profit; however, if it’s at the sacrifice of quality and feature sets, they should expect to take flack for it.  They are big boys and girls, they made the choices, they can live with the contempt of the sector of their (perhaps former) fan base still capable of critical analysis and objectivity.
        And before anyone says, the devs just do the job they’re given, and decisions are made at the top.  1) That argument hasn’t held water since the 40’s, 2) other dev teams have shown initiative and forced issues that were important to them (e.g. BL), 3) they claim to want feedback from us, and 4) life ain’t always fair (see: D3: removed features).
        As for Flux- just because he is involved in a “fan site” doesn’t mean he’s lobotomized. And I think it’s a pretty big assumption to pretend that you have any idea what what Flux “realizes” or not.  A lot of us choose to come here exactly because people are able and willing to speak their minds.  Personally, if I ever stop reading this site daily, it will have NOTHING to do with Flux, and everything to do with Blizzard.

    • I agree with wowreally. You guys need to realize that “unbiased” is not “cynical”. Whatever is the current situation, it likely cannot be improved upon much. Is this situation, let us ask ourselves whether we will remain fans or become critics. As a fan, we should be the ones to support the game (and the devs who have poured all their talent and effort into it) and not the ones raising the alarms.
      I have never been this vocal about it before, but I think Flux is losing his grip. The problem is, he still remains an eloquent writer and thus can influence opinion a LOT. So I’ll just say it:
      I do not think Flux should be allowed to put up more posts on the main page.

      • humungous – it says twice in the news piece who wrote the post it was Mr Bartuc not Flux.  Jesus, basic frigging reading skills man.

        • If Bartuc wrote it, and Flux put it up on the main page, who is guilty here? Basic common sense man.

      • humungous, I know you are a regular here so I am quite surprised with your position. One of the reasons I come here is actually b/c I love reading Flux’s provocative question or lines. The point is he is doing it on purpose, you know, like – and this is a literal translation from my native language so sry if it sounds funny – he is putting a stick in a fire, and that is why we got these regular river-long comments here. Without this “touch”, this site would be just a dull data site like many others. I am quite surprised, you don’t see this and you are making this sweeping suggestion, which makes me only wonder…

    • Why not try to squeeze in a bit more bad language? That will surely help to bring across your point and demonstrate your maturity.

    • As a bunch of other people have already pointed out, if all you want to hear is about how great D3 is and how awesome the devs are, etc, then you should probably stick to blizzard’s own site. Or maybe some fawnsites.  That you’re here reading this makes me suspect that you do in fact want some actual news and content and the truth about things, and not just PR happy talk. I wonder why you’d complain to vigorously about hearing one opinion, about a video game, that you don’t want to agree with?

      At IncGamers we take seriously our leading role in the Diablo community, and feel we have an obligation to present all the official game info and blizzard statements, as well as dissenting views. Especially when they’re well-stated and make some valid points, as Mt_Bartuc did here. I didn’t quote the forums rant that Bashiok replied to, since it was weak sauce and QQ. Also, you’ll note that I don’t actually agree with Mr Bartuc, as I said in the intro. I mostly found his post interesting as it was taking a sort of moral stand. (Whether he actually stands firm in taking that stand or not.)

      Some additional links you might find enlightening.

      • Then why do you favor bringing up the negative feedback as news more than the ‘fawnboi’ feedback? Equality? After all you are so ‘journalistically neutral’….

      • Is this a joke? Did you really quote wikipedia about freedom of speech? LMAO!! Man I’m sorry you got your feelings hurt so badly. Although you claim to accomodate dissenting views, I guess you don’t like negative feedback when its against THIS SITE huh? Take some constructive criticism for a change, geez. The fact that you thought this post newsworthy shows an extreme lack of judgment and journalism ability. We don’t want you to fawn over the game, just a little less doom, gloom, and dripping sarcasm will suffice.
        Your statement of taking a moral stand is absolutely hilarious. Do you know what morals are? Mayhaps i can point you to this link
        This wasn’t a moral stand, it was a QQ rage quit post by a most likely fat sweaty gamer who is disappointed and disillusioned that a BETA didn’t live up to his expectations. I’m pretty sure morality doesn’t play a role when deciding when or not to purchase a game. If you are as moronic as to avoid purchasing a game that you might enjoy just to spite a company or because of so called “moral grounds” then you sir probably have a severely damaged frontal cortex. There is no merit in Mr_Bartuc’s post nor in your rebuttal to criticism of the site.
        If you really care about equality, why don’t you put up a forum post of a person “fawning” over the game as well? Your logic = :^(

        • Clearly you don’t agree with the Mr Bartuc’s reasons for being unhappy about the game but why resort to personal insults, it doesn’t bolster your argument.

          • I think it does, I am merely retaliating. The “journalist” on this site just insulted “the readers” indirectly, by using that trademark sarcasm and arrogance that this site is superior and go somewhere else if you don’t like what you see. Quoting wikipedia? Come on, show some professionalism. Y’all are way too childish.

        • Frontal cortex?…  Ohh, you’re referencing something that you know absolutely nothing about in a vain attempt at being clever.

        • The fact that you would care enough to post all this garbage speaks more tellingly about your narcissism and lack of mature priorities in life than anything you driveled actually impugns Flux.

      • Look, I appreciate your site and I appreciate having somewhere to go for up-to-date news on the development that isn’t sugar-coated and gussied up.. but really? Freedom of the press? You understand that criticism isn’t censorship, right? You understand that to be a journalist, you’d need to do something more than repost (with added snark!) official releases and/or rumors from the internet that readers submit? Your site is certainly well-run and worthwhile, but calling yourselves “journalists” and declaring that freedom of the press guards you from criticism is, well, absurd.

        The idea that cherry-picking a rambling forumgoer’s declaration that the removal of character death animations and the non-appearance of cuts on his avatar’s body (setting aside how dumb that is to begin with) is journalism is, well, beyond absurd. Again, I understand it’s been a long in-and-out development process and you’ve got to put up something, but come on. Don’t pretend you’re Ida Tarbell sneaking into a sanitarium or a brave reporter bringing out news on human rights abuses in a country where there is actual repression of freedom of the press.

        Coming back to what I set aside earlier: Taking a “moral stand” that you’re not going to purchase a product (that isn’t even finished yet) because the developers of that product made the mistake of showing you what they might do, and subsequently dashed your death-animation hopes is pretty much the most morally pointless exercise I can think of. It’s not “interesting” in the least.

        All this is to avoid mentioning that the entire premise of “well, I don’t understand how you can say the feedback is ‘overall’ positive when I have anecdotal evidence to the contrary from my echo chamber of a ‘community'” is pretty far-fetched. Even your own polls on this site have shown a general contentedness that’s not remotely displayed in the tenor of select forum posts or angry diatribes of people who have replayed the same 3 hours of beta-released beginner game ad nauseum and expecting that to be equal to their memories of diablo II plus 10 years “better.” Obviously Blizzard has an interest to keep things positive, but somehow I think they have a better grasp on the overall reaction that they’re getting than you do perched here.

        You might recognize that if you were a journalist.

        • I love you. This basically sums up my feelings in an extremely thoughtful and eloquent way, thank you for saving me the trouble of writing something eerily simialr to this. +1

          • What execution was there? I quoted Bashiok spinning against a lame critique, and then I quoted a forum post that I thought did a lot better job in the same vein, while saying i disagreed with it, but that it made some interesting points, at least from a philosophical approach. I never said everyone should agree, or cancel their preorders.

            Also, I think the complaints are fairly obviously disingenuous. Get some perspective. This is just one of the 6 or 8 daily posts here, the VAST majority of which are straight news with, at most, some comment added to spur discussion.  We no more endorse Mr Bartuc’s opinion than we do every quoted utterance from Bliz PR –but it’s our responsibility to  present you guys with information and a variety of opinions. We’re not running a propaganda mill here; you’re free to make up your own mind about everything.

            Speaking of philosophy, I guess that’s what this boils down to. I really enjoy hearing different PoVs on issues; and reading opinions from all perspectives and making up my own mind. I read a number of news and political blogs where I disagree with a lot of the opinion offered. Personally, I get bored reading people who all agree on things, and feel I’m missing out on the full picture; it’s why I try to offer counter points and questions and bring up larger issues, especially on the podcast.

            Like I said in the OP, I don’t actually agree with Mr Bartuc (obviously, or I wouldn’t be devoting so much of my time to running a D3 fansite), but I thought he made some interesting points that were worthy of more discussion and wider readership. If someone read this post and took from it, “Flux says everyone who likes D3 is a fool.” you brought that interpretation with you, since nothing in the OP says anything like that.

        • THIS. Thank you so much, Anon. I’m afraid I’ll be less eloquent.

          I run a small press club in my college, and have actually been threatened expulsion because I was too honest about professors shielding their favorite students from harm during a recent incident. So please keep to yourself the posts about journalistic freedom because I know exactly how such power can be abused – I was accused of doing just that. But it was something I did after careful research and verification that it had really happened and had the balls to risk expulsion for exposing it.

          I do apologize for pointing my finger at Flux directly because he did not write the post per se…however, the finger now points at whoever was moderating the site at that moment and allowed such diatribe to go up in the name of “journalistic freedom”. 

          And why am I even bothering to write all this? Because we love you guys still – you’re still the best in the business here so stay like that! Post articles, post your insights, post balanced opinions, post humorous “diablo drought” memes if you have nothing to post. When was the last time we had one of those lovely “On the Drawing Board” articles? Please don’t post rabble-rousing nonsense like this. It is unbecoming of you, and 206 comments proves how divided YOUR fanbase is about this.

          Oh, and site admins, if you’re checking StatCounter right now, and seeing how many additional hits this piece has brought you, then you are truly pathetic.

          • “Oh, and site admins, if you’re checking StatCounter right now, and seeing how many additional hits this piece has brought you, then you are truly pathetic.”

            Yes, that would be. But no we weren’t checking but as you were wondering I had a quick check for you just now and as I would imagine it’s not even the most read news item on the front page despite it being a good news item. Works a little differently than that but I can see why maybe you would think that.

      • I do appreciate actual news and “truth”, but “truth” doesn’t mean endless criticism either. Criticism is great, but it’d be even better if it weren’t dripping in sarcasm and pessimism. A journalist ought to be impartial – and that means citing both sides of the story but showing agreement with neither. If you want to editorialize that would likely be better suited to separate posts.

        I don’t take issue with you quoting this person’s opinion, but I question its relevance. Bashiok made a comment regarding the statistics pertaining to people’s overall feedback; citing a single opinion isn’t especially relevant here.

  4. I think that the people that end up playing D3 long term will likely be new to the franchise, not those who played and loved the original. The Blizzard of 10 years ago does not exist anymore. People expecting Diablo II-2 are setting themselves up for disappointment.

    I fully expect a lot more of this in the coming weeks. It wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of high profile community members, and even fansite staffers, decide to throw in the towel when D3 is finally released. Emotions are running high and we’re all fatigued from the constant waiting…

    • You’re probably right, but not on ground that you’d probably think.

      There are millions upon millions more that are now exposed to Blizzard. By sheer numbers alone, it would only make sense to bet on the fact that more people will be “new” to the franchise. You know, because WoW has probably had around 300 million unique users alone, if not more since its release back in 2004.

      • @Wowreally
        Ok, you’ve proved that. Now show us that you’re not too ‘****ing stupid’ to come up with real adjectives.

    • well, i played d1d2 really long term. and i waited for D3 long enough 2 say i will play it, because it just has the right attitude 2 make a game something special and interesting. Sure you cant compare it the older ones (they were probably deeper in story and mood ect) but thats not the thing you are looking for, or do you want another clone ?
      Lets say the game is named Hell : Rising
      Not a good name but just lets get 2 the point, if it wouldnt be called diablo3 it would be an awesome standalone game. I mean srsly who else has made a good h&s game over the years, for multiplayer!
      Nobody !, thats fair 2 say. Torchlight and Titanquest were interesting but not over 2 months, then i put them behind me.
      I think Diablo3 will give a new experience in H&S Gameplay and an even deeper satisfiying gameplay in the harder difficulties.

    • Sorry, my post wasn’t worded very clearly but I think you’ve misread me.

      Diablo 3 will sell millions and millions, win industry awards and earn critical acclaim from gamers and press. However, there are a vocal minority of uber-hardcore people who will never be happy with Diablo 3 because it’s more like a reboot or a spiritual successor rather than a direct, dyed-in-the-wool sequel to previous Diablo games. They’re entitled to their opinions of course but those people rage quitting will have zero effect on the game or its community in the long run.

      Personally I’m still really looking forward to it *shrugs* but it seems to be rather ‘cool’ and en vogue to bash on Diablo 3 these days. I’m not jumping on that bandwagon.

      • Blizzard has always said that they want the casual gamer to become ‘hardcore’, by gently phasing them into the game until they’re hooked, and have taken a lot of flak for that.
        – But what when the hardcore gamer becomes casual?
        I used to be able to play games as much as I wanted to, but as I’ve gotten older, the time available to do so have greatly been reduced – silly things like work, family and social life demands its attention as well.
        Before anyone starts calling me for that statement, it’s a practical reality – I want to play more than I do, but it’s not realistic to do so.
        If Blizzard can make it so that D3 will be enjoyable for those of us who just haven’t got the time to play as well as for those who have got the time, so much the better for everyone – isn’t it?

    • Nah, majority of us wants a new and POLISHED game, not a D2 clone with better graphics.

      There are plenty of such trashy clones though, so bye!

    • Blizzard may be not the same, but they know they own a franchise that made an excellent impact in the previous releases!
      I am angry at Blizz but they did for sure their homework and investigated the previous Diablo games and their players to finde the holy grial of success!

      Also they tried to adjust this “wonder game” for a wider audience just like Nizaris said! This is not because they betrayed their old school fellows, this is because they need the money they spend on human resources to get this game done! We can only hope this game still has that spirit we use to see in the previous Diablo games.

  5. For me the decision to not buy was a slow but easy process – a few months ago I was fairly disillusioned about D3, but still thought I’ll buy it, play some – and get my money’s worth. Then more changes came, each one slightly simplifying the gameplay, removing stuff to do in the game, and with each change my interest slighly lowered. At some point I discovered that somehow I’ve already decided to ignore D3 – no need to agonize about this decision, it’s already made quite some time ago.
    Yes, it’s a facebook game now – Blizzard believes that’s what sells. They are entitled to put their money where various parts of their anatomy are and see what transpires. Still a bit sad I’m not their target audience. Flux, thanks for keeping the site active – even though you are disillusioned too and Blizzard PR does not seem to like you. I’ve spent quite a few years in D1 and D2, and your site was a faithful companion in my travels. That’s why I still read it, even now, when D3 is not interesting anymore.

  6. lol incgamers is geting worse every day: there is no more real diablo news here, only speculation, “release date” post and troll food. probably i will quit not diablo, but this fansite

        • Exactly, the guy with the most thumbs up got edited out even though he made some valid points and censored all his language. I guess they don’t like people who disagree with how awesome this site is.

          • Wrong on both counts.  Neither did he censor his language, the comment system did that automatically.   Besides the language it was a rant just full of personal insults.  As was crazynomads but he knows that as the majority of his posts are just him offloading dribble he knows they’ll get deleted.

    • Yeah, mid last year I went looking for D3 news and ended up here. This site is run by a guy that seems to gravitate towards news that suites his own agenda. A lot of the news he posts has this tinge of ‘I agree with these whingers, which is why I am posting this’. He’s also ok with having hackers / crackers using his forums to post shit that is quite frankly the opposite of what a ‘fansite’ should be.

      I come here for the odd announcement to see if I’ve missed something and nothing more. I keep well away from the forums. I was fucking sick to death of the spoilers and other rubbish posted by the hackers / crackers and all that other bullshit.  

      This site is VERY far from being a fansite. I can see why Blizzard has issues with people from this site. So they should.

      • you are TOTALLY wrong 
        the thing about this site is that they post EVERYTHING, good and bad, real news and speculation

        this site actually allows dissenting opinions, it allows people to compare D3 to other games without getting banned

        this very much a fan site
        what it is not is a FANBOY site 

        • I’ve read most of the replies to this topic, and this is the one that sicks most out to me.

          100% correct, this site posts all news, and at the moment the news is bad, not because they have an agenda against blizzard or the game. For years Flux and Elly having been feeding us info about the game and you can tell they were excited about the game. 

          Its because the game is bad, in its current form. I have played the BETA like a lot of people and it doesn’t feel like Diablo 1 or 2 at all to me. It feels like a totally new game, and now whats worse Blizzard have come out and said “we are not trying to remake Diablo 2”.

          Well if they are not trying to remake the Diablo series what the hell are they doing?

  7. love this post!
    bashiok talks shi_t -> real nerd tells him off and offers real (contrarian) opinion
    fu blizz PR

  8. Well if I’ve learned something about D3 development is…that american grandmothers must be friggin awesome :mrgreen:
    Mine hardly knew how to turn on the tv and there they are playing Diablo, impressive!

    • true I feel sad for my Aussie grandmother, oh how her life would be complete if only she could play D3. give. me. a. break. Blizzard.

  9. How’s he spiting his face? Seems he’s making a rational choice based on what he’s expecting from the game.

  10. To anyone who says wah wah I’m not getting diablo now because it’s to easy then simply dont. Just don’t come here and moan about it

  11. If D3 was released today with the information I have about it then I wouldn’t buy it. I’m sure I would enjoy playing through it atleast once or twice but it’s simply a matter of principle, I don’t like the direction they are going in with D3 so I won’t support it with my wallet.
    I’m still hoping they have some great news to release about the later difficulties before release(I’ve given up hope on the grandma difficulties), if they can impress me enough with the gameplay in lategame to outweigh the dumbing down of many features then I’ll buy it.

    • Another QQ about difficulty……? Seriously…..?
      Please, please don’t buy…. I’d rather not see you in there… 😐

      • Ok so Blizzard North used the mom test? I think the principle of making a game user friendly is great as long as there’s also customization and depth to the game. D3 certainly looks like it will be user friendly but they are removing alot of depth and customization imo, which I don’t like.

        I used the grandma reference to illustrate that atleast normal mode will be too easy for me to enjoy, I would have liked to be able to choose difficulty from the start. We haven’t seen anything about later difficulties yet so I can’t speculate about how much I’ll enjoy those.

        • But yet you mention the false sanse of customization in D2 as superior to what we have in D3. Which is not the case, D3 will have significantly more customization options and I won’t even bother to elaborate on that because it has been beaten to death.

  12. How can you write stuff like that if you only have seen the Beta. No Runestone witch will change the game big times!
    I am not in the beta but if i look at all the videos i think looks cool and i want to play it. And once it released and we see the hole game i am shure many ppl that talk like that now will buy it.

  13. I leveled through all 5 characters and I started getting bored around the third char’s playthrough. Not because the game is bad, but because I’m running through the same thing over and over and since it is the very start of the game on normal, there is no challenge. I never even came close to dying, I could play ranged classes and just stand in place and be just fine. So I can understand people getting bored after a couple playthroughs.
    Hasn’t dampered my anticipation though. There will be 4 full acts, *real* boss fights. Much more challenging gameplay. Runes (will make a big difference to skill variety and fun), gems, more skills to access, more gear to find, more stuff to see and not just running the same 20 minute chunk over and over (I never did “runs” in D2.)

    • I used to have faith that the endgame would be awesome aswell. With the direction they have been going with the game lately though, I’m not believing anything until I get to see it. That’s my biggest issue with the game atm, we haven’t seen anything from the later difficulties.
      They keep hyping the endgame but if they won’t show some extensive gameplay videos of it before release it’s a really bad sign imo. One thing I’ve learned through all my years as a gamer is: don’t believe the hype from gamedevelopers pre-release, believe what you actually see from the game(also keep in mind that what you see from the game might just be a scripted sequence :p).

        • Yeah they’ve shown some very limited clips at Blizzcon. We don’t really know what we are seeing there though, what lvl is that character and the monsters he’s fighting? what gear does the char have? is it average gear for that lvl? is he focused on offensive or defensive stats? what skill runes? are those typical zones or zones that are harder than average? etc.
          We’ll need to see some extensive footage to be able to draw any conclusions on how challenging it is later on.

          • Just from watching those, roughly 90 seconds of footage, I am itching to play D3 so badly, and I think that’s the best recomendation that any game needs. We’ve been following this game so closely, and Blizzard has been so increadibly transparant with us, that, I think, we’ve lost focus on the big picture. We can talk about different aspects of the game and different systems and functions all we want, the fact is, nobody will know if the game is fun to play, untill he or she sits down and plays later difficulties for 10, 20, 30, 100, 1000+ hours. Ultimetly, most/all of these things we’re reading about matter only so much as they make the game fun to play, something I believe we’ve all lost focus on. 

            I won’t speak for casuals and newcomers, but any hardcore fan of Diablo, somebody who played and loved the series since D1, that quits now and says “I’ll never buy/play this game, Blizzard has gone to far” is a moron. Regardless of playing beta or not, play through the game, give it a chance, see is it for you all the way through, and then come here and say “I don’ like/hate this game”. Anybody who quits the series now is an idiot or is, at the very least, making idiotic decision.

  14. Don’t remake Diablo 2, BUT ALSO don’t reinvent the wheel, Blizz. Diablo 3 will definitely have its own identity, but my fear is that it won’t be as immersive and as fun as D2 was. But we’ll see.

  15. ” That’s a sort of pride and integrity that most of us do not have, which is exactly what Blizzard is counting on.”
    What the fuck – why would I come to this website if every fucking post is one of the site’s admins basically shitting on the opinions of anyone who is actually looking forward to the game’s release. I don’t know why Flux is even still here. On the podcast he admitted he hasn’t played D2 in years, he seems to hate everything about D3, he sarcastically interrupts anyone who has anything positive to say about it ever, and now this shit.
    I’m not quitting Blizzard, but this is most definitely my last visit to this site.

  16. Did everyone forget how easy and essentially boring D2 gameplay was? Google the proper build = win. At least with D3 it seems you have to use some strategy in battles.

    My guess is that the haters are afraid the game will be too hard for their trained clicky-click fingers and excel-based hard-ons

  17. Good job sir. If more beta testers do there job so like u, bet, D3 was better than now.
    It so frustrating, that we stand at this point after a so long development, thtas made me very sad. Blizz dont need to discover the wheel again ;(

    • Trolling? Are you even in the beta? If you are, you should see many of the problems I bring up in your own playthroughs. The game has a lot of potential, but it currently feels very far from polished.

  18. my god people are mad lol ….. the beta only contains 1 third of the first act .. so ya its easy , like in any other diablo, the first part is mostly about understanding gameplay.. and yes it kinda sucks the fact they removed alot of variations , like stats and attribute poitns and so on ,, but honestly the game is fun, and Im Definaly buying this game . Cheers

  19. “but let’s not make sweeping statements to try to justify them”

    Yes Bashiok, let’s not…

  20. I have played the beta and it’s enough for me to see that I will never regain any good Diablo feeling. It’s really just a dumbed down cute game with no atmosphere from the previous games at all. 

  21. I’ll be the first to admit I haven’t been above bitching nonstop about things (particularly the delay after delay), but I gotta say Bartuc seems like he’s got far too much time on his hands and isn’t thinking too clearly here. Much of the content he mentioned that bothered him I would describe as “fluff content”. Not seeing the Monk’s weapons in spell animations? Who cares??? The Demon-Hunter’s glowing eyes and “Night-Elf figure without the ears”??
    Umm earth to Bartuc, not everyone here has played WoW so we don’t all give a shit. And as for the “removed” features, Blizzard never said they removed them permanently. We got multiple expansions coming and there’s plenty of room for more features. They’ll have plenty of time to put stuff together after release, we’ll all be too busy playing the hell out of the game to notice any delays.

    And he keeps repeating the million dollar word…..”BETA“……..because that’s the only thing he’s gotten to play. It’s the BETA, less than half of Act 1, he hasn’t seen a damn thing from later Acts other than what we’ve been shown in panel vids and other snippets. He’s grasping at straws and nitpicking like never before, just to argue for arguing’s sake. We’ve been promised a hell of a ride

    Get over yourself Bartuc. The boycotter attitude got old before it even started. Oh yes, not only YOU WILL buy Diablo 3 and help make it the game of the year with 1 million sales in the first week, but you’ll also buy a 4-pack to share with your boycotter friends lol, like boycotters did with Left 4 Dead 2, they were all found “in-game” in the first week of release.

    Get over yourself, you’re not convincing anyone. We’ve seen that song n dance far too many times to even take it remotely seriously, let alone fall for it.

    And Bashiok, you’re still as full of shit as ever, feedback has NOT been overwhelmingly positive. You’re obviously suffering from tunnel-vision.

    • Some points of bartucs statment wont change later in the game, f. E. Stats.
      All say something about the “easiness” and dont cry about it. Ok is beta, some health, mob or char, will change in final. I will only say den of evil. There was the first mob, they can you send you to heaven without a little caution. In all the streams i havent realy see anyone in real trouble, all seems very smooth and realy easy, I hope realy they will change it to the final. Without challenge, fun will go away very soon, for “noob” too.


  23. Bashiok trolls all of you. Blizzard draws strength from your asperger rage.

    Hey guys, you know what I love the most about the diablo 3 beta?

    That I’m in it and you’re all not. Sucks to be you.

    Your crying lady in waiting,

    Boycott all reactions towards diablo 3 that aren’t frothing with hatred, kind of like the hatred one would feel if their site was ignored by the company they worship because it’s a shitty fucking site that has nothing to offer that other sites haven’t done, better.

    Still waiting for to be your crying lady in waiting,

    • actually YOU are what it sux to be. you have to play, what? the same few areas, 33% of Act1 over and over again? how boring as hell is that?? when we non-beta testers get our hands on the full game, EVERYTHING will be a new experience. gameplay vids and beta streams don’t even begin to compare to the real FULL thing.

      we’ll be excited as hell when we start our very first char, and our excitement will only keep building up and up, whereas you’ll go through the same areas you went through over and over and over, and it won’t feel any different.

  24. Yes, Diablo 3 is getting more simplified compared to Diablo 2. But does that mean the game will be totally bad and not worth playing? No. As long as there are tons of loot, items with random prefixes. random dungeons and random elite monsters, I will be satisfied and drool myself to death while playing the game. Plus nobody played Inferno difficulty yet, on which I bet my two cents it will keep me hooked to game for very long time.

  25. Farmais, you have entered a danger-post zone. I have to warn you that your post may end up in the line of fire, and potentially become a casualty of war.
    To escape this danger zone, simply look into a mirror forged of pure silver and repeat the words BASHIOK BASHIOK BASHIOK. Assuming you did this correctly, Bashiok will appear and give you a copy of the REAL D3 Beta, for being such a dedicated supporter.
    And yet this site is still cut off from being an official extension of Blizzard’s property. Must fucking suck to be the guy who owns this site.
    Tangentially, I’d like to remark on just how pathetic and sad the captcha phrases on this site are. “Two cents worth”.  I mean yeah, incgamers’ opinion is worth about that much but to make us normal gamers acknoledge it daily is a bit much, hey?

  26. This guy’s comments can be colored by his adoration of “Vanilla WoW”.  He is mistaking nostalgia for viable game mechanics in 2012.
    I’m really glad he “and his mates” aren’t buying… I’d hate to accidentally co-op with him.

  27. You all yelling and blabling. “HE DOES NOT PLAYED END GAME, and FULL GAME”.
    He don’t have to, and either I. You might ask, why? Normally I try Demo//Trial of Game, to decide
    (Play or not to Play) If first Example of that game is fun, and enjoyable, I will dig It, and buy It. If some of You tell me, that game is SUPER fun but I have to spend 100h more to get to the End Game… That argument, isn’t addressing to me. Diablo III… without exception.

  28. They are really counting on a legion of fanboys to be happy with this product.  I don’t know if it will be enough.

  29. I was a longtime fan of the diablo series, but after they watered down everything, i am out. But there will certainly enough people playing the xbox or ps2 version of the game, but for me as a pc player I demand a lot more for a AAA arpg than they have to offer now, after so many years of development.

  30. I feel a lot of the issues people have stem from too high expectations. I’m not gonna touch whether they are seeing the past games through rose-tinted glasses, it doesn’t matter. But I think a lot of the people complaining consider D2 one of their favorite games of all time and if D3 has not improved considerably it is a failure. But most games will not be your favorite game, obviously, and a game can be good, even great, without coming close to your favorite game of all time. You are setting yourself up for dissapointment if you ever expect something to considerably exceed your favorite in any category. 

    So lower your expectations, from ‘has to be a lot better than my favorite game’ to ‘something that just might be a bit cool’. Instead of thinking in terms of must by or won’t ever buy, approach it a bit more level-headed. Reset your default to ‘something you’ll check out’ and if you get a bad feeling about it investigate what reviewers you trust say about the game. And make sure your sources don’t have the ‘its either the best or worst game ever’ attitude.

    Sorry if my language skills are sub-par.

  31. Other than a few concerns I had when I got into beta I think the game is a positive overall. Things change and you have to roll with times. The old glory days of D2 will live forever but this is now 2012. Time to move on!

  32. I like that rage quit, actually. That’s how I feel right now for the most part.
    P.S. Worst art-direction of the year – I vote for Diablo III.

  33. Yes, Flux, we all know you hate this game. Please stop these nonsense “news” posts. It must be sad to be so cynical and delusional. Just don’t buy the game and leave us alone.

  34. Haha, remember in the D2 stress test when you could only play a Barbarian up to Blood Raven? We have way more content now and way more complaining. Just crazy!

  35. “me and my mates are out” is a typical troll statement.

    Because the person in question wants to motivate his qq by implying his opinion is supported by X other “friends”.

    Of course it isn’t.

    Far too much attention for yet another Blizzard hating idiot who wants to feel more important than he really is.

    I stop reading every time a post starts talking about “me and my 9 other imaginary friends…”

    Pathetic really, just like you need support …to form an idea.

  36. Lol. Flux obviously did the “right” thing by posting this, considering this has almost reached 100 comments.  More traffic for the site!

  37. This guy has a point, Blizzard try to increase the amount of people who will play the game, trying to be favorable on too many levels.  Instead they should keep with the actual 17+ effects and realism instead of some 12+ gay effects, trying to get kids to buy this game…and has shown with WoW expansions, and they haven’t and wont change…  

  38. I have been a little disappointed by certain things about D3. The online only part being my biggest bitchh. The removal of death animations and bodily injuries have just been pushed up to 2nd in the bitchh department. But, I will make due, get a better computer, router, internet provider, etc.
    D1 and D2 just had a certain feel to it for me. Any other game I played just paled in comparison. That feeling is hard to explain or put into words, but I am sure there are other people that feel the same way. I still enjoy starting D2 up and hearing that music kick in. I just hope D3 has that same feel to it, dark and gloomy, almost gothic. For a hack and slash to have no death animations and very little gore just doesn’t make sense to me. It will take away from that feeling I am talking about. Not like D2 had the best death animations or anything, but there was blood and the occasional blood spray from a death. I am still excited for D3, and it’s OK if some people have become disillusioned. I believe there is still alot of gameplay that hasn’t been seen that will change alot of minds. They will get my 60 bucks and probably more from the AH, but I just don’t know how long it will hold my interest. Especially if they have turned it into a happy game for 11 year olds.

    • Explanation: Flux, you base the introductory argument of this article on the assumption that Forum-goer feedback is  statistically reliable.  (It’s not.)  Blizzard isn’t designing a game FOR forum-posters, they just happen to want to include forum-posters.   The amount of statistical bias in forum feedback is absurd.   

      I assure you, the feedback that they’re referring to reasonably represents the audience they’re making this game for.  How?  Because they have a marketing department with a market research budget, and they know how to get statistically valid results.  

      So by putting this at the top of your article, you transform a potentially reasonable post about what some people don’t like about it and why, into some absurd and obnoxious troll about how Blizzard is out of touch with their game design decisions.

        • Feedback that they solicit from people in surveys / controlled tests.  

          While I cannot know the exact methods Blizzard is using, I do know that game developers with significant resources do a lot of “focus testing” where they partner with marketing research firms, (or act on their own) to bring in people to play the game under NDA and collect feedback.  

          For example, Valve has been pretty open in commenting (various dev interviews, books, etc.) on how frequently and heavily they do this to inform their design decisions.

          It’d be really interesting to find out exactly how Blizzard collects this feedback, or just know more about their methods.  But, regardless, it’s silly to assume forum feedback is a primary source of information Blizzard uses to influence their design decisions since it represents such a ‘biased’ (biased in statistical terms) portion of their intended audience.

          • Right now I would say feedback on their forums and bug reports that may offer opinion while they’re at it is their primary source.  I haven’t had a survey request and none of the testers I just asked in chat or on my msn/skype has yet.  We did with SC2 so I do expect one, but hasn’t happened yet.  As the CMS are at pains to point out they (and the devs) monitor forums (certainly their own at least) constantly.  I would fully expect them to be tapping that resource constantly.

            But that’s beside the point as Flux didn’t say feedback on forums was statistically reliable he said ‘everyone has something good to say and everyone has something negative to say” which is as down the middle assessment as one could possibly get.

        • Also, Elly, I’ve been a long-time visitor of your site.  I understand that your staff, your site, and Blizzard especially, have changed over the years.  

          It’s just frustrating to see so much personal bias (non-statistical kind, heh) come out in Flux’s posts under the touted guise of journalistic integrity. (e.g. not praising every decision Blizzard makes) 

          I actually have no personal issue with Flux, he’s entitled to his opinion, and he’s entitled to post it on a Diablo news site, regardless of the quality of journalism. If nothing else, he’s a Diablo fan who’s had the job of staying close to D3’s development process for the last four years — and everything else aside, that’s going to piss anyone off. (In my opinion.)

          It just feels like Flux has been so close to this PR mess that it’s impossible for him to NOT integrate his personal opinion in such a way that it feels like this site has a bit of inflammatory “tabloid” vibe to it now.

          • Excellent post.
            I’d like to think I’m mature enough to maintain a relatively objective view of Blizzard, D3, and related events. As such, when I read Flux’s articles, it feels like he makes a conscious attempt to acknowledge both sides of an issue, but then breaks the façade of objectivity with sarcastic jibes and a thick slathering of discontent.
            It’s nice to get news that doesn’t stink of Blizzard PR or sickly-sweet fan-boy enthusiasm, but it seems like Flux has been pushing the pendulum awfully far in the other direction lately, which really isn’t much better.

    • Yeah, it’s pretty embarrassing at this point. I don’t even read the white text that comes with most articles. You know it’s just going to be another opportunistic and poorly-formed bitch-session about Blizzard. Time to start migrating to diablofans.

      • Every one of your posts over the months have disagreed with anything, anything, negative anyone says about the game, found zero value in any point made. All are negative towards this site and yet you keep coming back to tell people it’s time to stop coming here.  At some point you’ll have to stand by that sentiment.

  39. In the beta forums you can see the disappointment and technical problems with the game. I just got in the beta myself after its been out for months and still there is stuttering. My PC isn’t exactly top notch anymore but it sure as hell was last year with state of the art hardware. But that’s besides the point.

    What Blizzard should of done was open the beta up to Diablo II players FIRST. Then to everyone else and then have an open beta.  I feel that this Diablo III beta is broken and im almost heartbroken because i want it to be so good….

    • The stuttering has already been fixed internally. It’s a non-issue.

      Also, opening it up to D2 players first and then everyone else, is probably the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard. Especially since I know what you really mean to say; ‘Only “true” Diablo players should be able to provide input on D3!”

      So glad Blizzard is smarter than that.

  40. The Beta showcases how terrible the game is. The graphics look like they’re dated by 5 years and nothing seems to flow well in the beta. I played the beta and let friends from D2 try it and they were equally disappointed in the game. Maybe opinions will change when the full game is out who knows.

    • Nobody cares about your anecdotal evidence. Real game site reviews have been overwhelmingly positive. Until we start seeing people who are actually credible give criticisms of the game, these complaints are betrayed for what they really are: a bunch of whiny tardcores pissed off that Blizzard didn’t make Diablo 2.5.

  41. The only thing in his post that rings true with me. And scares me.
    “Vanilla WoW was the best thing to come out of blizzard and everything that came after has been rubbish. They screwed up with the WoW expansions, they screwed up with SC2 and D3. And now you can see that with the current state of WoW, they will get it wrong with their upcoming mmo.”

  42. “…but the general forum conversation from beta testers is in no way “overwhelmingly positive.”

    Good thing that your general forums represents a tiny fraction of the overall population. Nor do you have access to the tools or data that Blizzard does. 

    It’s cute though that you’d like to make the small contingent of malcontents appear larger than they really are however.

  43. “That’s a sort of pride and integrity that most of us do not have, which is exactly what Blizzard is counting on.”

    Seems a bit harsh. I’m sorry I like Diablo 3?

  44. Century, are you sure about that (that they don’t want do ruin the franchise?). Diablo is way to problematic to the recent Blizzard approach. It had/has blood and gore, religious apparatus, really badass stereotype, gothic and underground theme, and so on. They have been \killing\ much of this dramatic and intense aura with many off their decisions (good or bad, that isn’t the point). They can easily kill the Diablo franchise with a game that doesn’t stand to its reputation and direct resources to other franchises, like Titan or WoW. Everyone knows that Diablo is the most neglected of the Blizzard franshcises. Too many times people have said that Diablo can and will canibalize WoW… but the cash-cow is the last one. They can make a Diablo game that ruins its badass reputation, cash-in a lot of money with it (yes, people will buy it, good or bad) and at the same kill the franchise for good. If it doesn’t stand to the standards of a Diablo game, it will have a short life cycle, thus reducing potencial profits with the RMAH and, eventually, expansions (plural). This is more than a good argument to make Bobby put Diablo in the \abyss\. I don’t know. Everytime, it seems like Diablo isn’t 100% Blizzard. But, man! Do you remember all the joy people had when D3 was announced? The video gives me the shivers! It’s a stupid conspiracy theory. It really is :S

  45. I have not had time to digest this thread until this evening and I am quite surprised at some of the comments in this thread. What amazes me is that anything critical about the game is immediately jumped on and then a finger is waved at Flux. It’s not his comments but he is bringing it to the attention of people following the game and Blizzard, who will read your comments on here I am sure also. He even states clearly

    “I don’t agree with some of his issues, or his conclusion, but he makes some good points.”

    People need to get a grip and realise that the game will have faults, all games do. I cover 100s of games every year and there is not one that does not have issues, Blizzard games included.

    I don’t think half the people in this thread actually read the news story. Flux is pointing out that not everyone is happy (not “Everyone is not happy”), there are some things in the game I am not happy about. Sure I will be playing like we all will here but there are design decisions I don’t agree with and I, like all other testers, are free to air my grievances. The old saying “Blizzard knows Best” is actually not true any more, and they have pretty much said that after Cataclysm where they made some bad mistakes.

    The fear is that mistakes are going to be made here also. Of course we don’t want that to be the case but we can not stick our heads in the sand all agree that everything is perfect with the game features. If you think Diablo 3 will be perfect then great but there are a lot of people who are concerned because they want to love the game because of two fantastic previous titles. Their investment in this game is huge.

    I am pleased that posts like this can be brought to the attention of readers and the devs, they will gain a lot more from critical feedback than 100% positive feedback all the time. As they did with the feedback on the Followers only being viable in Normal, the community’s feedback led them to pause and reconsider and ultimately change that. If we all say “yes it’s great” then people can not complain if they find things in the game they are disappointed with when it releases.

    • I have zero problem with criticism directed to blizzard and the d3 team specifically Rushter, not at all.. I think the problem lies in the fact that the quoted post while serving up a few points of discourse has wrapped it in a rage-quit coating. That just immediately turns me off to the idea of the initial premise of the post and the defense of the topic of said post. 

      Regardless, Cheers

  46. I never bought SC2. I got into the beta and was in the diamond league. I played it for the whole time the beta was going, and loved it – the dev team wanted to make a great game and they did.
    But the whole 2.0 fiasco as well as a hundred other little things made me resent it enough to not buy it. The last straw was all the losers who would just shoot down every critique with “LOL YOU”LL BUY IT ANYWAY.”
    No, you’ll buy it anyway. I won’t.
    The critique in the OP makes so many baffling good points – why is the voice acting so cheesy? Why do skeletons laugh? Why is there no sense of intrigue or horror? Why is everything so hammy? Why does the map design look like a WC3 campaign level? Every time I see a new list of changes I feel like Dr. Robotnik – “WHY? WHY? WHHHYYY???”

    • Not sure if serious or satire. If the former, then, I dub thee Sir Moron, if the latter then you are awesome and I love you.

  47. Fed-up community members: “hey can you please not be so negative, sarcastic and bitter all the time?”
    Flux: “NO. wikipedia slash freedom of speech. Go back to battle net forums! This is neutral journalism!”
    Rage kid: “Diablo 3 is like it was made in RPG maker” (actual quote)
    Flux: “Insightful, well reasoned post. Front page for you sir!”


    • Go away.  No, seriously.  I’m assuming you’re the one that ‘recommended’ your own comments?

  49. All this bull shit about complaing about scripted events makes me LOL.


  50. So much hate and anger, and personal insults of immature people who apparently feel good about themselves b/c they anonymously came up with an offending line, it makes me vomit.

    This is, sadly, the community and the internet at its worst, regardless of what you think about Mr. Bartuc’s quit-letter or Flux’s post.

    Man seriously. If you dont like it here, don’t come. This “sarcasm” and “negativity” has been going on too long for anyone to make a legit claim of how upset all of a sudden they are with this site.

    Really, don’t like it, don’t lick it. And take your suppressed anger/ hate to a boxing ring or sth. 


    • As a long time reader of this site, (yes, I know, the most cliched opening), I actually always appreciated Flux’s, shall we say, unique brand of reporting. It was better then other sites, especially horror that is forum. Critiquing the game, offering his own opinions, etc, made it better. Not perfect, far from it in fact, and it could get annoying occasionally. 

      However, Flux lately seems different lately and not in a good way. A lot of more recent posts, were far from any sort of standard this site or general quality one can expect on online sites. He has been much less of a journalist offering his thoughts on the game, and more like, overly entitled brat who’s self-esteem comes from being “badass” and “underground” by insulting “evil” corporations. I would in particular single out his post on removal of special death animations and especially, this here. Giving, I’m sorry for name-calling but there is no other way to describe his post, idiot like Mr_Bartuc “screen time” on front page and even describing his post “well thought and insightfull”, which, as many times as I may read it, I fail to see anything resembling that. 

      And then there is his recent attitude that anybody who disagrees with him MUST be a Blizzard fanboy. I’m going to quote another poster: “I am sorry I like Diablo 3.” Just as there is issue of site becoming too fanboyish, whose writers and admins spend most of their time kissing asses of the devs, which is obviously very bad, there is also the other side of the spectrum. Site becoming nothing more then a whine-fest and a sanctuary for all haters, as in people who hate the game with unbeliable vigor for no reason other then it makes them feel “cool” and “important”. This site alrady seems to be in that end of the line. One thing I in particular find offensive is his impication that anybody who disagrees with him is a Blizzard ass-kisser, all the while diagreeing and presenting his own opinion. That’s highly hypocrtitcal of Flux, there really is no other way to describe it. I have my own opinion, which I form on as many sources and pieces of information I can find. In some cases I agree with Blizzard, in other I disagree with them, and that is the true definition of “unbaised”. The definition of fanboy is somebody, most often without his own opinion, who always agrees with the company, if the company says “jump” he jumps, “hand over all your money”, well, you get the idea. And it is painfully obvious that is bad. However what is equally bad is somebody, who, no matter what, always finds some way to paint that decision in the worst possible light. “We removed A/Added B/Changed C”, “That’s all the accomodate casuals, Blizzard is going downhill, etc”. Unlike fanboys, haters/whiners do have they own opinion, howver sadly that opnion is colored by their complete refusal to think, and their reflex to turn everything into worst possible decision Blizzard has ever made.

      I found it offensive that Flux implyed that anybody who disagrees with him is drooling fanboy. No, I don’t like every single decision in D3, and yes, I do have issues with it, however, I dislike the implication that because my overall impression of D3 is positive, that I am dumb fanboy who can’t form his own opnion. After everything, I won’t be quitting D3, however I will seriously reconsider my relationship with this site.

      • Thank you for taking the time to write this. You make some good points. I also don’t quite agree with Mr. Bartuc’s post, but I also don’t categorize myself, regardless of what Flux write’s. I just find ..him, I guess, and this site, entertaining even if he slips a little out of the objectivity zone. To me that the added value of this place. Although I agree he starts lacking credibility when personal view are being labeled as objective journalism, or does he?

        I think ultimately its a personal choice anyone is free to make.

        I was just upset with all the bad blood in this comments. Peace out.

      • I guess the last sentence of the post is what people are seizing on? I meant that one as a humorous ending, lumping myself into the, “we’ll buy it anyway.” mass, but obviously some people haven’t taken it that way.

        My analogy, from the forum thread about Mr. Bartuc’s post, was to compare D3 to a GF/BF in a relationship. You know you enjoy being with them and most of the things about them, but there are some things that just drive you crazy. So do you focus on those and take a moral stand and dump them? Or do you ignore those things and stay in teh relationship for the overall benefits?

        The vast majority of us (me included) do the later, and we just choose to forgive and forget all the dev decisions about d3 that drive us crazy and are dumbed down as they seemingly develop the game for Bashiok’s mom. Some people do not, and take a semi-moral stand and say “hell no I won’t take it anymore,” which is what Mr. Bartuc here is saying.

        I have no idea if he’ll actually follow through on that, but I found his opinion and the reasoning behind it interesting and worthy of a wider audience. You guys are free to disagree, and many of you have. And that’s fine; it’s why we have a healthy readership; since we offer a variety of opinions and free debate.

        • I know, Flux. I found this stunningly surprising that so many readers here didn’t get that, but instead read it on a personal level or what not.

          I ve been following this site since D2 classic. I would be really, really upset if its flavor were to change b/c during all these years i have not found any other diablo site, that i visit every day.

          I guess to me it was a bit of a shocker that so many people took apparent pleasure in personal insult war. It’s one think to write f**k you Blizz, and to call somebody names just b/c you don’t share his point of view. And still we care to call ourselves community…

          Keep up the good work!

          • Thanks for sharing the spirit of mind. This whole thread, especially the angry posts that (the more responsible) Elly pointed me to, keep reminding me of one of my favorite quotes.

            “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.” — F Scott Fitzgerald

            I should add that I don’t mean that as a way to call some people stupid, but as a quote that’s always encouraged me (attempt to) open my mind to different viewpoints and to develop more empathy. (If not necessarily sympathy.) Even for people like Bobby Kotick, who is, after all, like all of us…. the hero of his own story.

        • I actually have, well I can’t say no problem, but little problem with your news post. And I didn’t even notice/register that last sentence untill you pointed it out. My problem, and the reason for my rant, are few of your responses in the comment section. Your response to a criticism that several posters offered in the comments, was to tell that anyone who disagrees with you can “go to forum or some Blizzard fawnsite”, heavily implying that anyone who disagrees with you, and likes D3, or most of it, must be Blizzard fanboy who can’t form independet opnions. Since you offer your own opnions on daily basis and even quoted wikipedia article about freedom of the press, I found it hypocrtical that you of all people are controling/censoring what people say and what are allowed to think about the game, if they want to be part of this community. I consider you an intelligent and dedicated person who does what he loves and loves what he does,  however you must learn to accept criticism, of any kind, including pointless raging against this site and/or D3 and then dismiss it or accept is as flaw and try to correct it.

          As far as your news post goes, my main problem with that is your continued stance that Mr_Bartuc’s post is “well reasoned and insightfull”. I came back with a fresh mind after good night’s sleep, and for the life of me I can’t find any semblence of intelligence and/or intelligent thought in that post. That’s, for forum and internet standards, fairly common rage post and as such shouldn’t deserve much, or any attention. So, it baffles that how much attentions he has been getting lately. Not because his opinion is different from mine, but because just how badly written (not in grammatic sence) and poorly thought-out his post is, and how, just plainly dumb, he comes of from reading his post. I haven’t met him real life, but if I were to form an opinion of him just from that post, I’d say he’s a moron. I have absolutely no problem when somebody writes long objective post discussing many issues that D3 does indeed have, but as, fellow long-time Diablo fan, I would personally be ashamed if I had written that. 

          Overall, I have been coming to this site for years and I doubt I’ll stop, but this site, like D3, has many bad points in addition to its many good points that have made it my favorite Diablo site for years.

  51. I say who cares about one persons opinion, don’t base your opinion of one person. Play it for yourself (if you happen to get into the beta), take into consideration its only 10% (if-that) of the game, and make your own decisions.

    There are some things I don’t like ((*cough* RMAH *cough*)), but those handful of ideas don’t ‘break the game’ for me. I’m just saying — play it first and make your own decisions 🙂

    Edit: And Flux, keep up the good work of reporting the good and the bad!

    Does anyone else watch the news on television?? Is there not good and bad on the news?? You have to report on both to give an un-biased opinion. Sorry but this isn’t ‘’ 🙂

    • Thanks for seeing the point.

      While I’m human enough to like that you agree with me, honestly, I’m not looking for agreement. I state opinions and post controversial stuff since I want to spur debate, even if some people take it the wrong way and flame me. I have a very thick skin, and criticism is welcomed.  I’d much rather start a good conversation than get people all agreeing with me.

  52. I’m not a “casual”.

    I’ve enjoyed my experience with the beta.

    Sure, there are things that I can criticize, but none of them are game-breaking and overall I think it’s a really fun time.

    No, not everyone is happy with D3, but I suspect that the majority who’ve played it are, overall, fairly happy with what they’ve seen.

    • Here, here. I don’t know why some people people are getting into  a fizz over the news item.  It’s true if you are casual or hardcore everyone has something bad to say and everyone has something good as it says in the OP. Also like you said “not everyone is happy with D3” which is exactly the headline of the news item.

      • The headline implies an antagonistic stance towards Bashiok’s claim, and posits “casuals” as the source of the positive reviews. My comment was meant to contradict this notion, specifically the suggestion that “maybe the raves are all coming from casuals who aren’t talking about their beta experience in the forums.” Simply put, I disagree with that suggestion.

        • I got something entirely different from the headline, I got from it that not everyone is happy with Diablo 3, but if you think everyone is happy I can see you would disagree with that.  But I have seen threads in forums from people who aren’t completely happy so the headline is correct and you’re deluding yourself. But most people unhappy with parts of the game (myself included) will buy the game anyway.  As flux said.

  53. I think that complaints like the one quoted here are a microcosm of the complaints people have about any number of things in society today. Specifically, any time people see money corrupt something more heavily than it used to, people aren’t willing to accept it and usually get very vocally angry about it.  Think about sports.  Athletes used to play for a fraction of what they are paid now and most team sports are dramatically influenced by money far more than they ever were.  As the popularity of a sport grows and people’s loyalty to it grows, business exploits that loyalty for profit at any opportunity.  This is just one of a long list of examples.  When it comes to D3, the business of D3 is clearly influencing the gameplay experience in a way that limits the developer’s choices on how the game can be created.  D1 & D2 weren’t designed with the same goals in mind.  D3 is trying to be as fun as it can be with Blizzard maximizing profits while D1 & D2 simply maximized fun.

    This said, my conclusion is that consumers must change with the times or be left behind.  Game developers are constantly looking for new revenue streams.  They make games to make money.  All of them.  Are you eventually going to stop playing all games?  And do what then?  Capitalism is everywhere.  You can’t escape it.  You don’t have to like it.  But unfortunately, you do have to deal with it.  Diablo 3 might not be as fun as it could be, but it will be a lot of fun and worth the $60 as much as any other game will be.  Forget about what Diablo 3 could have been and embrace what it is.  Everybody’s got things they’d change if they could, but the fact is that they can’t.  We don’t get to make the game.  We get to choose to play it or not.  So if you think D3 will be worth playing, then play it.  If not, why are you still reading??

  54. I lol’d after reading all these comments. For all these people bashing Blizzard, Diablo 3 and being dramaqueens, every one of you will still buy the game. So in the end, Blizzard wins.

  55. Aww , I got edited, so much for your enlightening links Flux

    You can turn to your “if all you want to hear about is how great D3 is blah blah” until your blue in the face, because no that’s not what we want to hear

    We just dont want the same old bullcrap naive opinions of one thing in particular (ofcourse there are many) But in particular the same old “in-depth” reviews of the Diablo 3 beta’s –Depth / Difficulty — and quoting ‘reviews’ from the minority all the way up to the mentally retarded

    I’m sorry but 70% of your news posts are not what you proclaiming to be “honest truth” “actual news” Please explain to me how this particular news post falls under those categories, you quoted a few troll forums and wondered where Blizzard got there “overall positive feedback”, when siffling through the trolls you’d be suprised how positive it has been, it’s already winning awards, and blizzard know true diablo fans are still eagerly awaiting to get there hands on this game and even alot of people looking at joining the franchise

    But hey, you keep using this website as a place to dump your own bias personal opinions and then put your cool shades on and herp the derp up with your “If all you want to hear is how awesome herp derp D3 is herp derp”

    Take a look around, everyone can see it, gradually your negative bias opinions have been growing and finding themselves in more and more classic HONEST TRUTH AWESOME NEWS posts, all starting back around August 1st (sorry still hurts to say that date for you), and since your head slowly started entering the dark abyss of which is Max Schaefer’s rectal cavitity

    I really couldn’t care less that this website will just be used by you in the end

    Love you, I look forward to hearing your cool ‘shaded’ responses

  56. This is not about Uber HC gamers community, its all bout gaming in general. “Core gaming” if u want. The fact is this guy is right. What blizzard did, is follow the bandwagon 🙂  And the wagon name is “casual shit”, because it sell well and make lots of $$. (and i can unstertand that)
    Im worried about D3 yeah, because after playing the game like 60 + hours during beta, the game is just “ok” to me. Of course its a beta with less than 1/4 of act 1 but still, this guy isnt 100% wrong. If casual gaming means “no brain” game, im out too, i prefer spend my time on game like Dark souls, because its more close to diablo than diablo 3 … it just need unique items feature.
    Btw : yeah my english sux, sorry 😐

  57. Flux, why do you promote this garbage on the front page?  Do you realize this is why you don’t get any beta keys to give out?  

    No developer in their right minds would ever look at the Diablo 3 General Discussion forums and think anything there was relevant.  It’s all 13-20 year old kids whining about things they have no knowledge of.  Nothing in there is even remotely considered rational thought.

      • Enlighten me, then.  You think a Blizzard rep doesn’t look at this website and think, “Hm, Flux is generally no better than one of the sperglords that post in the General Forums?”.  The last few updates have been really, really unprofessional.  Spelling mistakes, horrible grammar, and hiding his obvious dislike for the game behind “informative” articles.

    • What Elly said.  Furthermore, did you mean your comment as praise or criticism? What would you rather read? What’s more valuable to the community?

      1) A website that reports all the news, and offers a variety of opinions pro and con on everything?

      2) Or one that kisses Blizzard’s ass and never tells you the truth, in order to get a pat on the head from Bashiok ever now and then?

      I might be misinterpreting your comment, but I’m frankly disappointed in the shortsighted fanboyism of some of the commenters in this thread. The number of people in this thread who basically said, “Please lie to me and tell me only good things about D3 and don’t expose me to counter opinions.” is a little surprising.

      Communities, even online ones devoted to frivolous things video games, live and die on their communication and open debate. A fansite that does nothing but repeat and endorse the words and opinions of Blizzard PR is worthless to me. Hence my links in a much earlier comment to things like the role of the media and journalistic ethics; principles I didn’t think had to be defended or promoted.

      • How about a FAN site that treats the people who frequent the site like FANs?  And not people looking for reasons to hate the game.  Again.. post all you want about “Freedom of speach” or what ever.. but this site won’t last post release with this kind of stuff.  I check here several times a day because I’m hungry for news.. but the kind of crap you post as “news” will keep me (and many others) from coming back here when there is an actual game to play. 

        I’ll take a community of people who like the game I’m a fan of, not one who spews garbage like “That’s a sort of pride and integrity that most of us do not have, which is exactly what Blizzard is counting on.”

        Really.. I mean really?  Blizzard is counting on people to not like their game and buy it anyway.. yep.. makes sense..

      • It’s not that you’re exposing your audience to counter opinions.  I think that is an important thing to do.  You are quoting Asperger rants from the D3 General forums.  There are a LOT of very good posts in the Beta Feedback forums that don’t come off as frothing-at-the-mouth drivel.  

        My comment was meant as a frustrated criticism.  I’ve seen you write REALLY awesome stuff, and that’s what kept me coming back.  I like your non-biased views, but there is a fine line to walk there.  Lately, I think that your obvious distaste for certain changes to the game have bled into your writing.  

        People that disagree with you aren’t kissing Blizzard’s ass, and they aren’t head-in-the-sand fanboys, either.  Most of us don’t need you to “show us the truth”.  It’s really offensive that you think like that.  We’re smart enough to figure out what is and is not good game design.  

        At this point, I’d say a lot of your visitors come here because you get the Blue posts up so quick.  Nothing more.

        • “At this point, I’d say a lot of your visitors come here because you get the Blue posts up so quick.  Nothing more.”

          …and the articles.

        • “At this point, I’d say a lot of your visitors come here because you get the Blue posts up so quick. Nothing more.”

          Did you ascend to a higher plane of consciousness? or were you born that way?

      • I think news articles like this are fairly useless to not just the community but to everyone because it’s guy rambling and whining, I don’t come to the site to see endless ass kissing to Blizzard but I don’t come to the site to see endless bashing which seems like a majority of your posts have been lately.

  58. The post you quoted has the kind of quality that would get down voted and maybe even reported by people that criticize Diablo 3 because its that bad and immature.

    That you bring something like that up in the news is weird. I mean you say “insightful and good points” and not yeah there are some people out there that are not positive like this raging guy here.

    There are some good posts about D3 on the forums that actually bring up good points or  good suggestions. This is nothing like that.

    You shouldn’t try to hide your obvious dislike for the game behind biased articles like that, its also not that nice to constantly interrupt or disregard their opinion of the other people on the podcasts with sarcastic wrong information/assumptions based on wrong memory of D2. Seriously go play that game again. 

    They only thing I thought about quitting was maybe your “news” articles but reading the comments was still worth it because most the guys here pointed out your unprofessional style. 

    Also implying people that disagree with you are are fanboys is not that good.

    This is just the impression I get from your post. Maybe you tried to be funny.

  59. I don’t usually reply to Flux’s “news” posts.. but I had to make an exception. (Talk about ‘exaclty what they are counting on’) 

    Forget the fact you took a post that was one persons opinion and through it up on the main page as news.
    Forget the fact that the opinion you posted was of some one saying they will not buy the game that your site is a “fansite” of

    Forget the fact that the VAST majority of people who come to your site actually like Blizzard and actually like the way D3 is shaping up.

    Where you lost me with this “news” post was with the garbage posted at the end of it “That’s a sort of pride and integrity that most of us do not have, which is exactly what Blizzard is counting on.”

    And yes, Posted this same basic comment up above.. but it cant be said to many times.  If you think crap like that is how to run your site.. or needs to be said to be  “fair and ballanced”  than your very very miss guided.  Its no wonder the falling out your site had with Blizzard PR.. I’m all for voicing your opinion.. but this is just sillyness.. and you post it as news.  Well congrats on the views, but post release.. I’m not sure where you think “your” fans will be.  Certainly not at this site

    The thing is.. there is plenty of stuff I’m not toally sold on about D3. There are plenty of great debates I’ve had during development about those things. Some of them, I’ve been conviinced were good ideas, some.. I’m still not sold on. I like having discussions about those things.. I like reading well educated posts about those things.. what I don’t like is reading spam/troll posts about some one saying they won’t ever play D3 ..when there still isnt a release date.. and then have your site say its a valid post.

  60. I knew D3 was going to be inferior to D1 and D2 because Blizzard North is no longer in operation.  Diablo isn’t Blizzard Irvine’s baby; they don’t know what made it tick in the first place.  They just thought it was a cool concept and bought out Condor (which became Blizzard North).  D3 is basically just B.Irv’s best approximation of what “Diablo” is.

    Blizzard lost its soul with the dismantling of Blizzard North, and their games will always be inferior to their older titles because of it.  I’ll still play D3 though!

  61. There’s no doubt the game is very different to D1/D2 and it is a new game with a different atmosphere. I think Flux makes a valid point about people buying it anyway, that’s why it’s called Diablo 3 and not some other title, blizzard can use the franchise to make sales. Thats is one of the reasons I am buying it, I like the franchise. People moaning about this post have nothing to moan about , I am glad negative posts are pointed out, and agree with Bartuc or not, his comments will be the the same many Diablo players have thought in recent months as more has been revealed. Keep up the good work on the site, it’s great and don’t listen to the ragers in this thread.

  62. You know what I listen to the podcast, I have been visiting this site since it was reality x back in the late 90’s and how I read flux’s post with a grain of salt because he seems to have an incredible bias against blizzard anymore and wants to praise runic for everything, and I don’t care if you prefer one game or another or if you have a different opinion than me but I don’t think blizzard needs to be praised for every decision but news articles like this on some idiot named Mr_Bartuc who doesn’t deserve the attention. he didn’t make any good points and shouldn’t have got the attention. I still think the best part of this site is Elly and she’s the reason I keep visiting the site but Flux seems to have gotten worst in the last year.

    • Lothars,  First, thanks for the compliments but I’ll have to disagree with you, not the bit about me being the ‘best part’…:)

      Flux is critical, he’s hard to please, certainly harder than me and he analyses the hell out of everything.  I get it in the ear on MSN all the time but it makes me not accept everything (including everything about D3) at face value.  The majority of his posts aren’t critical but he will always play devil’s advocate in order to encourage people to think about the topic from multiple angles and then hopefully discuss it, which they do as the comments in all the news are testament.  Unfortunately that is interpreted as him hating the game and me forcing him to update the site (that has to be the only conclusion you can draw if he hates the game so much).   The positive or neutral comments are glazed over.  On the front page at this time there are loads but can any who are annoyed with him remember any of them?  I’ll bet a fiver, no.

      Check this out Lothars

      That is a thread started by Urzuxo which quoted flux’s question at the end of this news item and he asks his own question which everyone, so far, has put a lot of thought into answering with cool heads.  Hope it stays that way.

      The only thing I thought when I read Mr Bartuc’s post was “aww, shame, he’s leaving” because he’s a decent guy. He’s certainly not some two-bit troll or I’d have thought “ahh sod ya and good riddance”.

      EDIT – Bloody hell, reality-x, that’s going back a bit isn’t it 🙂

  63. Diablo has always been about making it seem like an rpg but really focusing on the action. I don’t think there is anything wrong with the way it sounds to me. I fact from what I’m gathering people are complaining just because there is something to complain about. The game will be dumbed down in many aspects because they don’t want to offend people’s intelligence with unnecessary details that us geeks will be able the extract anyhow. My conclusion is that this is just another rant without any useful information for the mass’s.

  64. Fuck them all Flux they can’t handle someone with a negative view of the game. I respect this site because it will actually acknowledge that not everyone will froth over every aspect of the beta or development.
    This site is lightyears ahead of Dfans and this is thread is exactly why. Don’t change anything. If these people want something else, leave.

  65. The reality of it all is that Blizzard has exposed us to the development process far more than ever before and far more than I’ve seen from many other companies.
    They could easily have just leaked ‘Game is progressing’ every two months and be done with it, but instead they feed us their ideas and desires for how they want the game to work. When a supercool idea comes up, everyone reacts in an excited and positive way, but when Blizzard then have to admit they can’t work it into the game for whatever reason, there’s a ton of hate coming their way. Some times the things we want to do and the things we actually can do don’t mix and that’s just the way it is. For me, personally, I’d rather see a cool idea scrapped than some half hearted attempt to make it work, just to keep it in the game.
    Just for a silly comparison, think of it as a cooking recipe – I love chocolate and roast chicken, but would I love roast chicken with chocolate sauce? I’m fairly sure that’d make me sick 😛  

    When I was younger I always thought about the bad things about getting older, not realising there’s some good things about it too – one of them being the ability to just let something pass instead of getting all worked up about it.
    Personal opinion is and will always be personal opinion. I like something others don’t like, cool, but that doesn’t make me a lesser being – people arguing why they don’t like the same thing is constuctive, people arguing why I should dislike it as well is a waste of time, plain and simple.

    One thing I’d love to see from people in general, though it is wishful thinking, is an understanding of some times you just cannot agree with someone – focus on the things you do agree on and make something constuctive out of that instead of wasting your own and everyone elses energy on pointless flamewars.
    – Reading why poster A doesn’t like the same thing as poster B is interesting; reading that poster B is blind, dumb, a noob, a fanboy, a hater etc etc isn’t…

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