Should there be limits to Paragon 2.0 respecs?


A fan brings up the question about Paragon 2.0 respecs and gets a boilerplate, discussion-boosting reply. So we might as well play along, eh?

I’m all for having the ability to respec, but I think both paragon and skill respecs neeed to have some kind of limiting factor. I don’t think you should be able to change them on a whim.
Grimiku: We currently don’t have any plans to limit the number of Paragon respecs, but it’d be cool to hear your thoughts on the subject. It’d be nice to have additional detail on why you feel one way or the other, so I’ll write down a few questions to help guide the conversation.

  • Why is limiting/unlimiting Paragon respecs necessary for the game?
  • How does limiting/unlimiting respecs improve your game experience?
  • What sort of limits would you suggest, and why?
  • DiabloWikiParagon 2.0 and DiabloWikiparagon points are new and still hypothetical, but the obvious analogy is to skill points and how they DiabloWikirespec (or not). That system changed many times during development and even after release, based on testing and player feedback. While the devs talked about limiting respecs during development, when we first started testing the game in the beta there were no respec limits at all. At that point the skill window was narrow and on the right, much like the Inventory window now, and players were soon playing with the skill window open and respecing on the fly, even during battles, as a way to circumvent limited number of skill slots. So the devs tinkered with the system, even giving us the infamous DiabloWikiNephalem Altar for a while, before arriving at the current “go to town or else suffer a brief cooldown” system.

    I’m not totally opposed to them taking a similar approach to Paragon points; allow full respecs to start and if that proves a problem, and players are exploiting it, then put in some limits. Maybe just the same as the skill respecs, where you have to return to town or suffer a cooldown before your changes take effect,

    What would be the exploits with PPs? I guess you could do it situationally; put all your DiabloWikiAdventure Tab points into Movement Speed and Magic Find for normal farming and then switch them to resource regen and reduced cooldown for a big boss fight? Shift your DiabloWikiCore Tab points from mainstat to vit depending on the need of the moment? Those don’t seem like such cheesy exploits to require a real anti-respec system design, to me? I’m happy to hear counter arguments, though.

    Tagged As: | Categories: Blue Posts, Paragon, Respecs

    Comments

    You're not logged in. Register or login to post a comment.
    1. The system, in its current implementation is practically a preset progression. The question you should ask isn’t “How much should respeccing be limited?” It’s “Would people ever need a change at all, for any reason?”

      I’m not saying you shouldn’t have respecs, people do misclick I suppose, just I’m not seeing how there are actual choices that’d make such a thing relevant.

      • I came here to say the same thing. If they want respecs to even matter, they’re going to have to do a little better than what we currently know about the paragon point system. It looks little more than an automated system that you have to click instead. There’s no real progression tied to anything but arbitrary stats and numbers.

      • I absolutely agree and don’t really see why some players tend to want things to get tedious, just because they remember having a good time with a game that had a practically non-existant respec-system (at the beginning)…

    2. I really don’t feel like we should be respecing in the middle of a game. I think that the gameplay should really be about tactics – meaning you choose your build (skills, runes, paragon points, gear etc.) and than go and make the best out of it, when the challenge is putting everything in right balance and making the right decisions during battle.
      I think that the respec is something that should really be more strategic than tactic, like if you feel like changing the build from solo to group play or choose another set of skills etc.
      Bottom line, I think that changing skills/pp in the middle of a battle is really too much. You should be enjoying the battle rather than messing with your stats.

    3. The way I see it, if we’re going to have truckloads of points, it’s going to be so tedious to respec anyway that no one’s going to bother.

      Woo, I’m having so much fun clicking a button repeatedly. Yeah, that’s pretty much going to be one-and-done, especially with their sad marginal benefits per point.

    4. The solution is so easy, just make respec’ing cost you a paragon level. Since paragon levels are unlimited it won’t matter except that it’ll take a bit longer to level up. Its a fair cop.

    5. How about you bind gear to characters and have all of your silly Paragon garbage out in the game world instead of a little button at the bottom of your UI? You want more Strength? Go out and find some. Clicking the little buttons is fracking awful. You want to hand out that kind of power, put it out in the world, where you have kill, dodge, explore, etc. And then, to really make an attachment to a character matter, you make the gear that provides all of these perks CHARACTER SPECIFIC. Not account specific, although there’s room for some stuff like that. You kill so many birds w/ one stone. You get rid of tedious grinding for the sake of grinding (old manual stat boredom), you take away the main complaints about re-specs (throw away/anonymous characters), and you ratchet up the skill/item synergy (now gear you wear defines your skills, and hence, your characters). But that would be the smart thing, so of course we get stupid 100’s of button click spam for respecs of crap stats that should’ve been in the gear game to begin w/. Except for Magic Find, that needs to die yesterday.

    6. Respecs should only be aloud in town. Problem solved.

      Limit would be pointless, if you max out all you gotta do is waste 4 hours and make a new character and put all the gear on it… very tedious.

    7. I was tempted to say something like “Respecs destroy 1 random item on your character, in your stash, or on the floor”. That would be terrifying, but it’s (a) a bit over the top and (b) easy to get around, anyway. I definitely think there should be some limitation. Only in town is okay, but it’s hardly a limitation at all. How about allowing weekly respecs? It has the combined effects of making you think about where you put your points, then making you have to get used to what you’ve done whether you like it or not – you either get “punished” for a bad choice (but nothing permanent), or you actually learn to like what you’ve done and don’t want to change in the end anyway. For most people who put thought into it, they won’t really need to respec but if a patch or new item or whatever comes along and changes how things work, they have a free respec waiting for them.

    8. There is no point to limit re-specs in paragon2.0, the pace of gameplay already prohibits it. Is anyone going to wait for a party member to re-spec more cold resist vs a frozen mod elite pack? I’s annoying when people leave 30 seconds to dump their inventory (what the hell are they picking up anyway at this point?) And if players choose to re-spec every opportunity during solo play then it has no affect on anyone else.

    9. They should limit respecs in some capacity. I don’t want to be respeccing just before a boss is killed and dumping as many points into Magic Find to try and maximize loot drops.

      I really like the idea of something like, refund 1 Paragon Point for the cost of 1 Demonic Essence.

      • I like your idea , it still allows people to reassign their points , but 1 point per demonic essence is probably too much , maybe 5 points for 1 demonic essence and the deeper you go into respec the more demonic essences you will need per 5 points , so after 10 or 15 points it becomes 2 demonic essences per 5 points , this way people will think about where they spend points and it is not permanent , maybe the last 5 points you spent should be free respec since many people misclick and a confirm button is just annoying.

    10. Oh lordy, will this dev team never PUNISH a player for bad play ?? For a wrong choice ?? Don’t do away with respec completely but you should have to give something up for it. Give the player some pause, some gravity to his choices.

    11. Oh god yes, this game sorely lacks decisions with gravity and it won’t get the duds D2 sports unless it injects a healthy dose. Unlimited respeccing = “meh, whatevs ill just change it laterz.”

    12. Well it explains why they took mf out of paragon 2.0, cause everyone will respec b4 big red and key masters. I would like a randomiser respec so if you don’t like what you got you click respec and it randomly assigns your new spec’s no cost but your time till you get what you wanted hahahahaha =D Das yo respec’s, everyone happy. Enjoy dat!

    13. Well I think whatever they do, it should limit respecs from being used in a moment-to-moment way. No respecs to add all MF before a certain enemy, for example. If they limit respecs by resource, it won’t eliminate that. I think timed restrictions are the best idea. The aim is to allow respecs if people make a mistake or change build but to stop abuse, as well as actually giving at least some sense of permanence.

    14. There can’t be a limit on respecs, but there can be a limit on when the respecs are possible. First off, limiting respecs would be there primarily to prevent people running macros to swap Paragon points. No casual or even moderately serious player is going to stop in the middle of a dungeon to TP to town, respec and go back to fighting monsters. The advantage you gain from a respec is *never* going to be worth the 10-20 seconds. People with a macro, however, could do that respec in the time it takes to set up a TP. Bots would likewise be easy to program to do so. So if you’re talking about limiting respecs, you’re really talking about preventing people from running macros.

      On the other hand, you have a fundamental game design issue. They’re pushing niche or transformative builds with Loot 2.0. Anyone that has tried niche builds knows that you have to tailor your gear and skills in unusual ways. Since Sentries don’t crit, a Sentry DH needs to focus their gear on Dex and IAS compared to the normal balance of CC/CD/Dex/IAS. A more common transition is CM Wiz vs. Archon Wiz who require dramatically different equipment to function at peak efficiency. It already takes 5 minutes to regear/reskill your hero and now we have to add X minutes to respec? Not only do respecs have to be unlimited, they have to be very fast and easy.

      I would go as far as to say we should be able to create saved profiles – bookmarks, if you will, of paragon point set ups. Limit it to 3 per character, if you feel the need, but the easier you make it to respec, the more variety you’ll have in builds. I think every designer on D3 would agree build variety is near or at the top of their priorities.

      I don’t see a way to limit macro players AND allow fast respecs without having all respeccing done exclusively outside of the game. Basically, you add a menu with hero selection that lets you respec. When you enter the game, no respeccing.

      They also need to realize the need for far, far more stash space if they BoA/BoE every piece of gear. If I need 3 Helms, 3 Chest Armors, 6 weapons and 6 rings for my Barb’s 3 different builds, where does all the equipment for my Witch Doctor go? I fear they will fail to see this connection with Loot 2.0 and multi-class players will be royally screwed over.

    15. Paragon points are so bland, I don’t see why you would respec often. Swapping 1 piece of gear does the same thing as reallocating points from 1 category to another.

      If the points provided bonuses you could not get from gear, the system would be much more interesting. As they are now, the points might as well be automatic.

    16. lulz..the thread has already degenerated into the elitist vs the ez mode types (lpl..is there even such a thing as an elitist d3 player) why oh why does blizz even indulge these people by responding to such a ridiculous question? i guess it’s good blizz PR to pretend they’re being open minded or actually have an choice in the matter when deciding whether or not to inconvenience d3 players.

    17. I know, how about they force respecs. Every paragon level you gain your points are automatically removed and you have to reassign them again. Yay, respec ftw. Or they could make it so you have to answer 20 questions and get at least 15 correct in order to apply for the right to have a paragon point when you gone up a level. Applying is done thru an online email system. You can fail 3 times only then instead of losing that point you get a free respec and 1/2hr of infinite health & 10 gold pieces.

    Comments are closed.