Life Steal Going, Going, Gone in Reaper of Souls


As we saw from the planned changes to class skills and item modifiers in Reaper of Souls, DiabloWikilife steal is being phased out in the expansion. Virtually every skill that now grants life steal is being changed to heal by a flat amount, or by a % of your character’s total life, or to grant DiabloWikiLife on Hit, or by a % of your character’s DiabloWikiHGHB, or via DiabloWikiLFSS/DiabloWikiLFFS, etc.

But what about current gear? Won’t players just keep using their current equipment, since it’ll be worth it for the Life Steal, even if the DPS and other stats are lower than the new gear? Well, the newest datamined info from the RoS test build shows that Blizzard has thought of that as well:

  • Life Steal is less effective when you are higher level.
  • At level 60, Life Steal gains a 0.10x multiplier.
  • At level 70, Life Steal no longer functions.
  • A fan aware of this planned feature change, but not some of the related monster changes, asked about it in the forums today and got a Blue reply:

    Since life steal is gone at level 70, does that mean that reflect damage is gone from the game?
    Grimiku: We’re keeping a close eye on all of the systems since changing any one element will likely have a ripple effect of some sort. However, Wyatt has specifically mentioned the DiabloWikiReflects Damage affix in the past.

    Wyatt Cheng: Regarding the existing monster affixes. We’ll be keeping an eye on these. For example, Reflects Damage internally has been changed to a flat amount rather than a percentage. I don’t know if it’s going to ship this way but that’s the current internal version.

    The Blue recommended revisiting Wyatt Cheng’s recent posts on changes coming to combat and to the healing and health systems of Diablo 3, and I’ll second that. Also, while I’m going to continue enjoying the Auction House and Life Steal until they’re gone, and I think they’re essential elements in the game today, I can see silver linings in both removals.

    As with the AH, if they just yanked LS out of the game right now it would be a borderline disaster, since players and characters depend on the current system. I consider LS all but mandatory for any HC Monk using DiabloWikiSweeping Wind (since SW DiabloWikiprocs with LS, but not DiabloWikiLoH), and I’m sure my high risk/reward WD remains alive largely due to the LS on her Manajuma’s knife. Other classes will also be greatly affected by the removal of LS, with the Barb near the head of the line, largely because that class has easy access to 2-3x the amount of LS anyone else gets. (DiabloWikiBloodthirst is being nerfed and now LS Mighty Belts are useless as well.)

    But… if other things change in the game, monster damage is made less spiky, new/improved affixes allow for more sources of healing, etc, that could create a lot more gear diversity. As I said with my Monk, I don’t even look at weapons without LS on them, and the same is true of many other players, especially when considering using a Skorn. Ergo, a game without Life Steal = a lot more options when looking weapons… right?

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    1. This is the only change I’m really concerned about, because it would be too easy to screw up. But as long as they’re actually testing the endgame this time, fine.

      Aside from general balance issues, the idea that offense shouldn’t be a good form of defense may also slow the game down even for softcore characters, which isn’t particularly desirable in an action RPG like Diablo.

    2. QUOTE

      As I said with my Monk, I don't even look at weapons without LS on them, and the same is true of many other players, especially when considering using a Skorn. Ergo, a game without Life Steal = a lot more options when I'm looking for Monk weapons... right?
      I play Monk as main, other is WD. I have not tried other classes yet :D
      
      To clarify myself (lazy as I am to read all new changes coming) LS is the only one affected in future patch, not LoH? If that is the case, I have never looked LS on my mp6 Monk's weapons. Only LoH as it is much cheaper. So not true to every player looking for Monk weapons, just to voice out the (dual wield = more dodge; no Skorn) minority(?) ;)
      • You are correct, but that’s why I made sure to note that my Monk was HC in the OP. Doesn’t really matter if you’re softcore.

        I do know people who go with just LoH on HC Monks (my first one did, before he died in a blink from hitting about 8 RD enemies at once and overwhelming his 1200ish LoH) and it can certainly be done, but it’s a risk. (Albeit one easily rewarded with much bigger damage/cheaper weapon options.) In my experience 2.5-3% LS on a 100k DPS Monk is equivalent to about 2500 LoH. And LS heals from SW constantly. With LoH you get zero healing when you’re moving, or if the monster you’re targeting has a Shield up, etc.

        • Wut…

          Every monk in SC uses a LS weapon. The choice is simply do you use one or dual wield. Someone just starting out may go LoH, but as soon as you get to any reasonable gearing level, LoH just doesn’t cut it.

    3. I hope…apart of DESTRUCTING all those things (LS, Barb, etc)…They add BETTER things to supply them all. Erasing the game is not a good solution, damn I CAN DO IT JUST NOW.

    4. This will suck! The way i play my DH in HC, i rely on the 3% LS on the Windforce

      • It’s been slow but i have managed to get my Monk (in HC) to p28 with only 467 loh. But it has been a lot of “fight and run away, to live and fight another day!”

        • It’s certainly possible not to use LS on a HC Monk. My first one made it to P61 without LS, after all, and he was using a Fist with LoH and a Unity for around 1200 LoH. But LS gives you *much* more healing than LoH once your DPS is at least 90k or more, and as always with HC, you’re gearing up to survive that 1/10000 calamitous event. Or just hoping you don’t run into it.

    5. The answer is NO! We just switch from LS to another source of Life. It is not diversity. Diversity means not relied on single source of thing to live.

      Well their prediction of fun is same as their prediction of AH.

    6. Honestly, I’m not surprised by this change. Lifesteal was a fine mechanic in D2, because it did not stack with spell damage, and melee damage did less. I never played a melee guy in D2, but I am pretty sure that hitting for 10,000 damage was an excessive amount of force. Even then, 3% lifesteal would have given you 300 life back; basically 1/3 to 1/4 of an average character’s health.

      The problem with lifesteal in D3 is that damage goes much higher, and scales with spell damage. If your DPS is at 200k DPS, then 3% lifesteal given you 6000 life back. Granted, this number is much smaller than it would have been in D2, but it is basically impossible in the game is it is now to get 6000 life on hit; even my best friend, who built pure-LOH Monk only ever got up to 3200 LOH. Because lifesteal scales so drastically, it needed to go.

      The new life-returning mechanics are fine; they need to be tweaked, as the numbers are currently not good enough to see play (unless difficulty is also tweaked, which is looks like it has been), but the actual core mechanics seem fine. Probably the best thing about the new mechanics is that they seem to be incorporating other mechanics into their scores; for example, one of the Barbarian Passives grants ‘Life-per-Fury-spent,’ and scales with 1% of Health Globe healing bonus (HGHB). Most items can get that bonus, and a most of them can stack up to around 10,000 HGHB per item. This rewards Barbarians for building for an unusual affix, by ranting them very large healing per Fury spent. For this skill, if you could stack up 100k HGHB on items, then each point of fury would heal for 1145; even just using a spell like HotA, which costs 20 Fury, you would still heal for over 20k life.

      If all of the new healing mechanics are going to work with old, previously-unused mechanics to make them better, then I can see the new system working very well to create many new builds. If they fail, then it looks like a straight nerf, and I will be very disappointed. However, just from the datamined information, it looks like they are not failing. That said, only time will tell.

    7. LS on weapons forces you to drop perfectly good weapons simply because the affix is not there. Its clear that Blizzard didn’t realize the severity of this decision making process experienced players would make.

      They could increase the effectiveness of resistances/armour to compensate and it would do exactly the same thing LS is doing now – mitigating damage. Then players would be free to access a larger variety of weapon if and only if they don’t replace LS on weapons with LoH or another 2nd most preferable life replenishing affix.

      Another problem with LS is it reduces the importance of globes/pots. You can just go nibble on a few nothing monsters to do the same thing. I’m in favour of its removal as it has far to greater impact on the streamlining of the gameplay and choices made by players. I enjoy the challenge of trying to balance out asymmetrical benefits and liabilities. LS takes this away from the game.

      If they had just given monsters proper elemental resistances this wouldn’t even be a problem to begin with since that made is so you couldn’t LS off everything (physical res/immune, block, skellies).

      Now just what them achieve nothing as the 2nd best to LS just takes its place on weapons.

    8. Finally. Percentage life steal was always a bad idea; you need to make damage and defense a trade off, instead of hard-coupled like LS. Life-on-hit benefits from IAS, but that’s not so bad.

    9. They have also removed the cap on crit chance/damage and attack speed while removing life steal at the same time.

      It seems clear to me they are giving you the choice to gear up the way you want but if you go all out on trifecta stats, having poor survivability is going to kill you without life steal.

      You probably want a healthy mix of offense/defense stats rather than the current meta game where damage is king mixed in with life steal.

    10. “life steal is being phased out in the expansion”

      This would be like removing +skills on gear in Diablo 2

      Just how retarded are the people working at Blizzard?

    11. Life steal gone is not as bad as it seems , my self found monk was doing mp1-2 without any Lifesteal or Life on Hit just relying on defense and Breath of Heaven with good amount of Extra Health from Globes and Life Per Second , my battles were not spiky and it was under control almost 90% of the time unless I met some crazy affixes combination where they melted me in seconds if I didn’t run around alittle bit , not to forget that current game situation is built around having LS and Spiky damage.

      So if without LS they can control the kind of damage players can encounter then it will allow for better game balancing and not dying in split second because some crazy mob hits you like a truck and your 1 hit should refill your entire HP Pool and if you didn’t hit anything because the monster put a shield up or you got knocked back you die.

      Lets just wait and see what the game is like when the Beta comes around , I am sure we will test it and they will fine tune it to make it as good as possible.

    12. In b4 “Life Steal % is a broken mechanic that has never worked and will never work in games!!!”

      Makes me sad.

    13. Is is just me or is this game looking less and less like it’s a part of the Diablo franchise?

      • I don’t understand how idiots like Mackan and yourself have the mental capacity to post on a forum. There is currently one REAL source of regen/sustain, completely overshadowing many other mechanics in the game.

        The removal of LS coupled with other tweaks opens up the door to life/sec, life after kill, health globes, potions, LoH, life per resource spent, class healing skills, and even more.

        I know this might be hard for you to understand, but 7>1.

        DO try to use your damn brain.

        • Insults and name calling? Wonder who’s the idiot here, hiding behind “common sense”.

        • Eh, there is this old saying “Be wary of illiterates who learned how to count.”, i guess the real meaning is quite different but i always remember it when people try to argue that REMOVING something instead of fixing it is the only solution, like, you know, starting to have a thought but being distracted halfways trough the thought process by a bright light…

          • There is no way to “fix” a stat that heals you proportional to all of the damage you do. It’s one thing to have a specific skill or two that can do that for limited periods of time (like Nether Tentacles or something), but a simple gear stat that means your best defensive stats are crit, crit damage, IAS, and your main stat, means that the damn thing is broken. You can’t fix something like that. Same thing when they try to “fix” Magic Find; at some point, the stupid hoops you have to jump through, the compromises you make w/ a lot of the other gear and stats, just isn’t worth trying to fix the fly in the ointment. Pull out the fly, stop throwing in beetles, spiders, and mosquitoes to try and cover up the original bug.

            • – if you do less damage, it heals you less, they are already reworking stuff for the lack of ls
              – if there are rules that affect which, ls or loh, works with different skills, or different situations, it becomes a interesting choice, remember manasteal vs triumphant?

              Lets not kid ourselves that we have here some complex system that is unmaintanable and there is no time to make something interesting instead of removing stuff.

    14. i’m gonna wait till we get all the changes before making judgments. they’re re-working entire systems here, change to one mechanic tells us exactly nothing.

    15. You can also get huge amounts of healing from Life On Hit + certain skills. Acid Rain on a group of monsters shall quite always fully heal my WD who has only LoH on his skorn(not even remotely the best weapon for LoH). But I believe I read somewhere that they shall rebalance proc rates so al skills give similar LoH, it was in some discussion about healing and combat.

      Zombie Bears and especially Cloud Of bats are simply suicidal with LoH gear, so I support this change on condition that they completely rebalance all proc rates.

      BTW: Am glad I already have LoH weapons before this announcement, if enough people read this can this increase their price.

    16. QUOTE

      Is is just me or is this game looking less and less like it's a part of the Diablo franchise?

      There are so many things that are different now that it just doesn’t seem logical to keep 1 or 2 things in just to preserve the games heritage. D2 worked, it was complex for a fast paced game but it worked. D3 is streamlined, its not as complex but it is fast paced. I think at this point they are working on the complexity side of the game which is good. They seem to be only capable of working on one or the other, I like the idea that they’re working on the complex side of the game.

    17. Why are they trying so hard to make me to not want expansion? Nerfs everywhere.

    18. What a relief. For a while with the first news of RoS I thought Blizzard was finally to the point where they’d begin fixing the game and adding on to it. I’m glad they’ve confirmed with this and the AH that they realize it best stick to their well proven method of just gutting any system that they can’t be bothered finding a solution for.

    19. Glad it’ll be gone. It’s a stupid mechanic and a broken premise that offense = survivability, leading to a situation where your DPS stat is the only one that matters. D3 has been so primitive in the stats department because of this, it’ll be nice to see some depth that might make people care about more than one number on the screen. It’s stupid that all your survivability needs are met by just making sure you have one or two items with lifesteal.

    20. You are aware that offense is the best defense even without LS right? Both in the sense that any GOOD alternate recovery is gonna have the exact same effect, and in the sense that most deaths come from control stealing and/or unavoidable damage spikes. Every second you let an enemy live is another second they get a chance to do that on you.

    21. Yeah.
      Offense will always be a good defense too, and that is fine.
      Which is a very good reason we don’t need to make offense an even better defensive, by having stuff like LS scaling directly off your offense.

    22. QUOTE

      There are so many things that are different now that it just doesn't seem logical to keep 1 or 2 things in just to preserve the games heritage. D2 worked, it was complex for a fast paced game but it worked. D3 is streamlined, its not as complex but it is fast paced. I think at this point they are working on the complexity side of the game which is good. They seem to be only capable of working on one or the other, I like the idea that they're working on the complex side of the game.
      
      That's what my **** sandwiches taste like.

      The only reason I bought D3 in the first place was because it was a part of the Diablo franchise, all these changes make it more like the dozens of generic fantasy games that are released every year. With D3X looking like its drifting further for the ethos that is Diablo, my enthusiasm is rapidly on the wain.

      Oh, and I prefer ham and cheese on my sandwiches. Each to their own I suppose.

    23. QUOTE

      The only reason I bought D3 in the first place was because it was a part of the Diablo franchise, all these changes make it more like the dozens of generic fantasy games that are released every year.  With D3X looking like its drifting further from the ethos that is Diablo, my enthusiasm is rapidly on the wain.

      Yeah, well I’ve said it somewhere else before but I’ll say it again. I don’t consider anything in D3 part of the Diablo universe. And yeah, it is only Diablo in name. God damn barb looks like a granny when he swings a weapon, just pathetic which I think says a lot about the game in general. But that doesn’t mean its not to be enjoyed for what it is. Getting jailed and one hit is pretty stupid which is what my PC memories of D3 are like :coffee:. But its still a crazy stupid little game with Melee builds running the charge. The biggest let down for me has been no necro, it really allowed me to enjoy D2 because you could play a bit melee (barb), projectile, then a necro which was just epic.

      On top of this, LS is really just melee imo, and once again we have no idea how it really works until you go and do your online research and find out what skills are actually benefiting from it. But I know when I use skills like life per second whats going on, no need to research. I just get sick of this kind of ****. D2 could have made life per second work but they never bothered, I’m guess having both makes things just stupidly spazoid unkillable god heros. But then in D2 you had ‘cannot be frozen’ on rings which was a must imo. D3 needs more ‘musts’.

    24. Great. Now i’m really looking forward to find ilvl 70+ legendaries in RoS with rolled life steal on them. It will be awesome. Imagine 3500 dps crossbow with STR and lifesteal. Totally BiS…

    25. Well, I wonder if the game can be considered “fun” if they take away our current god mode for mp10.
      I’m all for making the game rewarding for high-skilled play over high-geared play, but Blizzard didn’t really get it with D3C.

      One one hand we want higher rewards on higher difficulties, on the other hand we wanna be able to beat those difficulties without having the best gear.

    26. Right now, every mechanic in the game is overridden because of LS. People ignore the pools of plaugued, arcane spinners, molten, etc. There really is no penalty for poor play. Then when they die and complain about imbalance because they can’t just smack their way to good items. Removing this will bring back the need for skill, reactions to changing environments, and the importance of character placement to each enemy encounter. Bravo.

      • But this wont change, ls will be replaced by elite damage reduction and cc reductions, the problem is not ls, the problem is, whether you like it or not, that people are not interested in playing against the odds 24/7. Players want to feel powerful, fighting 3 mobs where every one of those has more damage, health, speed, in some cases abilities while rubberbanding, trying to avoid hits that the server has pulled out of a hat and trying to make out what is what in a complete mess of polygons on the screen quite naturally does not reinforce that feeling 🙂
        So the player does what he has to.

    27. What do we have here. So basically AS will be even more important now for those using LoH. I am not actively playing now, but I guess that the power creep à la wow will render 90% of my current gear useless within 2 levels if not less. WTB Fel Armor, Drain Life.

    28. QUOTE

      What do we have here. So basically AS will be even more important now for those using LoH. I am not actively playing now, but I guess that the power creep 
    29. They can’t find out how to balance a multi-decade old mechanic.
      I’m stunned at the variety of ways they can fail.

      D3 is a joke.

    30. It being multi-decade old hardly counts for much when it has been a badly designed stat for just as long.
      Their mistake was implementing a stat like that in the first place.

    31. QUOTE

      It being multi-decade old hardly counts for much when it has been a badly designed stat for just as long.
      Their mistake was implementing a stat like that in the first place.

      D1 had lifesteal. It wasn’t overpowered there. D1 didn’t have much health/damage asymmetry either. So you hit for 300 and heal… 15… then you get hit back for 100 a mob. Yeah.

      D2 had lifesteal. It wasn’t overpowered there (even though the health/damage asymmetry was strong in this game, lifesteal only worked with physical attacks which were incredibly weak ANYWAYS, due in part to Iron Maiden which was also only a problem because of health/damage asymmetry).

      The problem is health/damage asymmetry, not lifesteal itself. Try lifesteal in PvP for example, it won’t hardly do anything. In D2 or D3.

      • LS in D2 was not overpowered? Ask my Barb with dual wield Grief 2fpa WW and around 50% life steal. He can steal 5K life in a sec lol…

        • Yes, because everyone is these days much happier having to deal with the same issues as only the most dedicated people had to deal with in the past.

          I mean, come on, ladder runeword? All ls eq? What is the next argument? That we should remove armor and resistances because some people can reach 15-20m ehp ?

    32. Then we will probably have to disagree. I think both health and mana steal was fairly OP in Diablo 2 too. Not to the degree of D3 no.
      Of course it didnt work with everything – which made it less used – but something that is OP for only 20% of cases is still OP tbh.

      Cant speak of D1 though, cant even remember life steal in it 😀
      Got to go back and play it, started a new character right before D3.
      Probably it was indeed so weak Ive forgot it. Not that far off from ‘decades old” however…

    33. The monsters in D3 MP 10 are for the most players NOW overpowered. So most chars NEED lifesteal to play the game with FUN. Best and most easy way to fix problems with overpowerded chars would be to cut steal from a certain point of dps. All problems would be fixed.

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