Inferno too tough for HC?


We’ve had a long time to wonder just how tough DiabloWikiInferno will be. Of course those in the hardcore community have been especially curious. DiabloWikiJay Wilson has added a few more logs on that fire with this tweet.


Hi Jay, quick question: is Inferno mode designed to be beatable by an HC character?
Not really, but please consider that as a challenge. 🙂

How hard can inferno be? Unfortunately we won’t know for a bit. We’ve been told to expect death ( and a lot of it!) from the testers, and now we’ve been told the hardest difficulty is not beatable for us. While I for one take it as a challenge and look forward to it ,what are your thoughts? Is this grandstanding to make Inferno  seem more difficult and Diablo 3 more marketable or is it really that tough?

Tagged As: | Categories: Blizzard People, Diablo 3, Game Features, Hardcore, Inferno

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  1. It is probably that tough and it better be for Blizzard’s sake. I can imagine an uproar if it isn’t as hard as they have been saying for the past 4 years (or since inferno was announced).

    • There will be a very vocal minority that finds Inferno ‘too easy’ and will swear bloody murder upon Blizzard for broken promises and ‘bait and switch’
       
      So it goes.

    • Here is the issue:
      Developers have dumbed down games so much that when they say it will be hard, we don’t trust them.

      This isn’t world of Warcraft that needs to cater to everybody tokeep subscriptions going, it’s a single transaction purchase game.  Blizzard give two shits if your little brother or some old grandma can’t finish it, that’s what normal is for.

      I believe inferno will be fucking hard, maybe too hard.   

      • at first yes, then it will be “dumbed down” or easened as I like to say. so play the hell out of it for the first 3-4 months.

    • For me personally, since I see little meaning in playing softcore, this new information from Jay Wilson is by far the worst Diablo 3 news so far.

  2. Let us see, I think that it is a minority that will be able to do inferno on HC and much latter into the game.

  3. I’m sorry, but Jay’s reply does not in any way equate: ‘now we’ve been told the hardest difficulty is not beatable for us.’
    Inferno wasn’t designed with the explicit goal in mind that it must be doable on hardcore too. That means it may or may not be beatable on hardcore.
    My guess is it will be, since the devs in general seem to really underestimate the commitment of the players. It’s astounding what some players (not me) manage to accomplish.
    In any case, I’ll look forward to the challenge too 😀

    • I’m sorry, but Jay’s reply does not in any way equate

      lolwut? “Is inferno designed to be beaten by an HC character” and the answer is “not really”. How does that not equate? 

      • lolwut? It’s exactly what he said. Inferno wasn’t DESIGNED to be beaten by a HC character. I’m pretty confident in making the leap that this means they didn’t take HC into account when designing inferno. Which they shouldn’t. HC has always been about doing the exact same thing SC players do but with the chance of permanent death.
        That in no ways means it’s unbeatable for HC. It just means that it is still an unknown variable. It may or may not be beatable.

        • Of course it’s “beatable” but it is designed to kill you in SC. Death is part of the process. We’ve been told this repeatedly, and it does equate to Jay Wilson saying that.

          You’d have been better off arguing that he wouldn’t know what we’re capable of. Because he doesn’t. 

          • A spoon isn’t designed to be a lethal weapon, but that doesn’t mean it’s not possible to use a spoon as a lethal weapon. Jay never said it wasn’t possible to beat Inferno Hardcore; he said Inferno wasn’t designed with Hardcore in mind. Palurian has the right of it, even if he’s using the verb “equate” in a somewhat questionable way: there is a significant difference between what Jay said and what the article suggested.

          • Tobit is right, you have to read the wording more carefully.  It’s very unlikely that someone would go into Inferno for the first time, as a HC player, and live to beat it.  However, you may wish to make a softcore character to practice Inferno with until you feel comfortable bringing your HC character.  Or, you may farm the end of Hell in HC mode for an unneccesarily long time, hoping to be the utmost prepared for your run in Inferno.
            Inferno IS going to be eventually soloable, they’ve even said that before..so what’s soloable in SC is soloable in HC(to a much much more carefully planned and patient extent).  When they designed inferno, they did not say, “Hmm..well we SHOULD make this easy enough for HC players…”.  HC players KNOW what type of difficulty they are getting themselves into.

          • Semantics guys, come on. You all agree on the fundamental issue here.

          • @Gatsby: The issue is that, months from now when someone finally does defeat Inferno on hardcore mode, they’re going to misconstrue Jay’s comment to suggest that it shouldn’t have been possible, and that Blizzard has failed us, etc. etc. Semantics matter!

          • Put in a different way:
            An absence of design for something does not imply the presence of design for its opposite.

  4. I doubt it’s unbeatable for HC, but I also doubt we’ll be seeing anyone beat it in the first week, or even first month of release, solo or team. When people have beaten Inferno on 2 or 3 different characters and have ran all the bosses multiple times to have an encyclopedic knowledge of the mechanics, then we’ll see people beating the final boss on HC Inferno.

    • It will be doable it will require a lot of farming for good items in early inferno though (remember you can get every item in theory from an act 1 baby mob). Even then it likely going to come down to luck to a degree (you dont want to bump into D3 equivalent of a MS LE elite).

  5. Developers always underestimate players.
    Although I still hope it will take me months before I beat inferno on hc.

  6. Hopefully it is that tough.

  7. well Jay, challenge accepted!

  8. I really do believe that Inf is seriously tough. That is the end-game at the moment. If it is easily beatable, then it wouldn’t amount to the longevity of the game. So I think that it is insanely though so us players can prepare and challenge for it with months to come.

    Jay himself said that within his hundreds and hundreds of hours playing the game, he hasn’t beat Inf single or multiplayer. This coming from the lead designer, who should know the ins and outs of the game in the palm of his hand.

  9. There’s a team of insane Germans and gosu Koreans that have already beaten Inferno in HC, we just don’t know it yet.

  10. If people start beating it easily, I’m sure they can come out with a patch that doubles all monster healths quite easily, or make it mathematically impossible to beat like what raid bosses used to be like in WoW.

    • WoW has a long and storied history of raiding which was created over the past 7 years of the game. Originally raiding was the only form of end-game content that was available to players and, back during vanilla WoW, raiding was very much like Inferno is supposed to work in D3. It was extremly difficult (back then there was no distinction between hardcore raids (not the same hardcore as in Diablo) and normal raids, so the difficulty of the raids varies between encounters and dungeons. But it was quite similiar to what Inferno is projected to be like, an elite activity that requires a lot of knowledge about the game and game mechanics as well as some great gear as a pre-requisit. I read a percentage that only something like 5% (or maybe even less) of WoW’s total players raided by the end of vanilla. I know there is prevailing opinion around here that WoW is a boring “noob” game, and that is true to some limited extent, but those raids were seriously fun and very, very difficult, multi-stage encounters, kinda of what I hope Inferno will be like, minus the class roles and sheer logistics of orginizing 40 people.

      • I’ve only played vanilla WoW, and I don’t remember the raids being that difficult actually. It was the organization which was the hard part. When everyone knew what to do, it was easy. With good equipment it was ridiculously easy, although it took a few months to get to that stage. And as you said, not that many people playing ever got there.
        But even so, I really hope that won’t be the case with Inferno, it should be somewhat challenging even with the very best equipment.

        • Well, yeah, like I said, back then there was no division of difficulty, so raids had greatly varying difficulty. Add to that, that all top dungeons were 40 mans and you have quite the challange. Also, back then, there was just less info about everything in general. There was info, but a lot of Azeroth was still uncharted to some degree and there could be occasional mystery around some particular encounter. Like, myth about what causes Onyxia’s breath attack persisted throughout vanilla WoW, with various theories, some more ridiculous then others. 

          I do agree about the Inferno, it should be very challanging even with the best equipment. Though, the differences in gear between WoW and D3 should mean that it will stay challenging.

          Edited because of vagueness.

  11. I don’t think that making Inferno seem as difficult as possible is a marketing gimmick. I think we have all agreed that we, players who will go beyond mid-Nightmare, that is to say hardcore players, are a minority in the overall number of players who will play D3. Battle.net forums really confirm that quite nicely. So, if that really was a marketing gimmick, I think then they would have made the game as easy as possible to give casuals sense of false accomplishment, because I’m sure everyone will want to come to Inferno, but (hopefully) few actually will. 

    As for, is Inferno really that hard. I think it is a bit easier then the Blizzard playtesters say it is, simply because playtersters aren’t gerenerally as good of players as real players going through the game. But, I do believe Blizzard and their promises, so when they say that Inferno really will be ridiculously difficult, i believe that they are capable of designing and creating difficulty with that level of difficulty while keeping it interesting, and engaging, Basically, I’ll trust them on this one untill, or if, I am proven wrong.

  12. I don’t think Uber Tristram has been designed to be soloed or even naked-run. So if there are people in inferno SC who can beat small portions like a single boss without dying but fail at other parts some gosu HC players will just connect all those patches off flawless wins and beat it sooner or later!

  13. Please just stop it.
    “it is too easy” omg “it is too hard”.
    will it be too easy? can we even beat it?

    just fuckin play it 😉 

  14. I don’t think the game was ever particularly designed for Hardcore period. Neither was Diablo 2. It’s just a cool mode they threw in there as an ultimate challenge. All Jay is saying is that Inferno is so punishing that beating it on Hardcore is probably a pipedream. Would you ask him to instead make Inferno easier to accommodate HC?

    • “Would you ask him to instead make Inferno easier to accommodate HC?”

      If there are in fact boss attacks in Inferno that are instant-death attacks, then altering them for HC to just do “huge damage” would be fairer. But there’s no real reason that they couldn’t have slightly different data files for Inferno SC vs Inferno HC.

  15. No problem about the difficulty. It s only a good challenge. Hardcore Players like the challenge and inferno mode is just a good one.
     I can t stand to wait 15 days before try this game and like it …

  16. Well I think the ‘not really’ comment should be taken lightly. There will be a percentage of players that will probably beat D3 in HC. That isn’t to say it couldn’t be beaten. I think they are trying to say is the as a hardcore player, it will be unlikely that you will beat it the first time you are playing and that is where the challenge lies.
     
    I don’t or probably wont play hardcore. I can understand the concern for the the HC players out there as it is you choose to play HC for the challenge and the intensity of loosing your character completely by playing HC. That is your choice and you will take the consequences. In the end Blizzard has opened up the challenge that HC wont be easily beaten.

  17. A well organized team of about 1000 level 60 hardcore characters might be able to do it, fighting 4 at a time.  They just need to fight like “The Immortals.”  When one dies, another will immediately take his/her place.  I guess the host player will just have to hang back as much as possible.

  18. if they balanced the game where a really skilled, fully geared player, could not beat hc inferno i think they did it wrong. if you are “perfect” you should never ever die.  in fact you should not have to be 100% perfect to beat the game without dying

    • A really skilled, fully geared player will obviously be able to beat HC Inferno the same way as in regular. Nowhere is the game forcing you to die. However, just getting “fully geared” in Hardcore will be extremely difficult, and everybody makes mistakes. And they would also be doing it wrong if Inferno was ever without risk even at the top tier.

  19. Are you asking for a CHALLENGE?!!
    Go to Hardcore.
    Or maybe some light fighting?
    Go to Softcore.

  20. Either way I’ll enjoy just getting to inferno and hopefully there will be some cool banner stuff for the HC’s that beat Inferno.

  21. I don’t like the sound of it. Maybe I’m being negative, but Im reading it like “We will have cheap deaths in Inferno”.

    Cheap deaths are not challenging though, they are kinda the opposite.

    Hopefully I’m very wrong and he simply means that you have to play very well to avoid deaths.

  22. The problem is Blizz is in a no win situation because the diablo players are not created the same.  You have those crazy teenagers from Germany or Korean that will play D3 like its their job, thus Blizz has to make it EXTRA difficult for them.  There are also casual gamers that simply do not have the time to play 8 hours a day.  Blizz wants to make it easier for them.  There is no middle ground because that will make both parties unhappy.  

    Unless they can turn it into an infinite loop where the levels just keep on getting harder and harder, beyond Inferno.  Sort of like “survival mode” on call of duty games, where there is no winning, only dying at the end.  It is about how far you can get.   

    This way, no one can blame Blizzard because the players will all be playing at their appropriate difficulty levels.   

    • “Unless they can turn it into an infinite loop where the levels just keep on getting harder and harder, beyond Inferno.  Sort of like “survival mode” on call of duty games, where there is no winning, only dying at the end.  It is about how far you can get.” 

      I think this is a good idea.  Infinite difficulty levels would be an interesting concept.  They may have designed the game with this in mind, so with each expansion they could add some content and another difficulty level.  I can imaging with the experience from WoW they would have started with the design of everything being scale-able, since that design mantra gives much more freedom to expand the game after release.

      I hope that beating Inferno on HC would be an achievement and give a kick ass reward. 

  23. I’m just waiting for the shitstorm that will ensue from people QQing about it being too hard.    

  24. There will be many QQs….. Even in softcore, and we’ll be hearing players cries that Blizzard made it hard on purpose so players buy/sell in RMAH

  25. I don’t think they’re “grandstanding”… I think they believe it.

    I think a small percentage of us will prove them wrong…

  26. It won’t be that difficult because remember, they can only make money if you find the items. I doubt anything is going to be extremely difficult.

  27. Diablo 2 was also freaking hard when you played solo. Imagine playing barb in hell alone? That was soooooooooo hard.. 

    Same with D3, now they are testing it and it’s hard for them because such a little amount of people are playing. But when millions of people will join the game and you will be able to buy amazing sword for 5$ then it will be become easy.

    Imo.. 

  28. Will the monsters in hardcore and regular/softcore mode be exactly the same? That is, the only thing that is different is the items people have? Thanks.

  29. D2 classic was actually very easy right after release. 

  30. I stopped playing hardcore because of lag deaths.  I could just imagine how much a lag spike would hurt on inferno where you need to be extremely precise.  I do not plan on playing hardcore at all in Diablo 3 except maybe to collect banner related things if they look really nice.

  31. My thoughts about this? CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

    • Add me to the challenge bandwagon.
      If Inferno is so hard, Blizzard should add an achievement or online award for beating it on hardcore — not that we need any incentive to try.
       

  32. “You will die. We promise” – to me this is a clear statement from Blizzard that inferno is not possible for HC.

    • Saying “you will fail” in a situation where multiple attempts are allowed doesn’t mean “you will never succeed.”

      • ” you can try to kill me, but you will fail, I promise ” or ” you can try to kill me but you will never succeed ” – sorry but sounds the same to me. 

  33. I’m fine with improbable as long as it’s possible which if it is in softcore it’ll be in HC. I’m happy about it.

  34. All Monsters in Inferno will have the multishot and lightning combo….
    For real just looking at the massive pseudo Boss in Act 1, i mean the one that grabs you and chops your head off gives me the shivers for hc inferno though, duriel looks like a whimp compared to him.

  35. I really hope this game’s “challenge” doesn’t come from inevitable deaths.  I have a feeling that will be the case though, with all the monsters that completely remove control of your character.  for 2-3 seconds or more. 
    I have this really bad feeling about inferno.  It’s like blizzard is trying to make softcore “difficult” which is futile because making something with no failure condition difficult is impossible.  Yet in the process they may end up making hardcore completely unplayable.  Would be pretty sad. 

  36. not really a terrible thing imo… its like HC endgame will be in hell and there will always be “uncharted waters” for the crazy enough to venture. And imagine the value of inferno only itens will have in HC… crazy

  37. I bet inferno will be beaten in hc before it will be beaten in sc.  The reasoning behind this is that hc players are more dedicated, more coordinated, have worked harder at putting the group together and are just more motivated.  Softcore players will lose time dieing.

  38. I think hard is in the eye of the beholder.

    Bashiok admitted in one interview (recent, but can’t remember) where he said they take the challenges that are difficult for blizzard employees and double its difficulty because players are unpredictable.  I remember when Uber Tristram was the ultimate challenge in D2.  How long did it take for people to beat it naked?  Or with off the wall builds (melee sorc, for example)?

    If Inferno is indeed that difficult, Hardcore mode would be extremely challenging.

    They can make the challenge as hard as they like, but within a year I’m sure we’ll be talking about Inferno in the same way we do Uber Tristram – not because it is easy, but because gamer ingenuity always prevails.
     

  39. You know if Blizzard says its unbeatable or nearly unbeatable, it just means that its pretty easy if you know how to play, thats the new post WoW Blizzard way of thinking, 1 month after release all the casual players will spam the forums saying “omgadd i died in inferno HC blizzxard please nerf” and BOOM here is the nerf bat

  40. I am scared that Inferno will be just about gear like WoW is.
    Blizzard just love too much jumping in numbers on gear.
    From 20k life too 160k in one level? No problemo.

  41. I don’t get all the crybaby HC players.  You play a game mode that essentially is only interesting IF you die, otherwise it’s the same as playing soft core and never dying then when you hear you will almost certainly die if you try to beat the hardest difficulty you cry.  In order to make a game hard people must die, if you want to beat the hardest mode then play a character you can try over and over again with and not expect to win always.  Diablo II was obviously too easy if people beat it on hard core.  In every truly difficult game there was lots of death. anyways, just my 2 cents for the whiney geeks.

  42. If inferno really is that hard for a HC to beat, that just means anyone that gets into it is just that much more badass. That should represent an incentive for people that want a real challenge, not a discouragement.

  43. Why? Just play HC and if you can’t beat inferno play it again. I mean isn’t that the point, to push yourself? I don’t play HC but only because I hate losing things I’ve worked on. You can’t expect to just beat hardcore on all difficulties without it being a supreme challenge, that’s the point. If Inferno is hard on hardcore that should just make it that much sweeter if anyone ever does it.  

  44. I’m not sure how does inferno stack up to D2 hell but D2 had a nice balance at that imo. It was soloable and beatable but even if you were top geared you could very well die (admittedly from champion packs rather than normal trash or the act bosses…) if you got too cocky or didn’t pay enough attention at some important point (of which there were many). Now that we don’t have instant save&exit or town portals, the game will naturally be harder. I won’t lie, spasm quitting the game saved my HC toons more than once lol.

    Inferno should be totally beatable and soloable through less-than-perfect play. Good gear, awareness, smart skill usage, positioning, and game knowledge should be enough to have you progressing pretty smoothly until you make a mistake at the wrong time. I think that’s how it should be.

    If there is stuff in there that’s is pretty much meant to kill you or has a super high chance of killing you regardless of how good you are well, then, that just sucks. Cheap/Instant/RNG-based deaths “working-as-intended” is not the kind of challenge I’m looking for.

    Basically, I agree with what Apocalypse said,

    And then of course there is lag and server issues to add icing to the cake. Though to be perfectly honest, I lost far more characters to my own (avoidable) mistakes than I ever did to lag. And yes, I did run into lag just as much as others. I guess instant quitting really helped there.

    onemoreedit: while on this topic, there totally need to be separate achievements for HC and SC (even if they’re the same thing). Achievements done on HC are worth a lot more =D. Only exception, stuff like kill/loot a gazillion pointless things should count from both modes :P.

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