Hardcore dueling: Life or death?

With patch 1.07 on the horizon and dueling on it’s way, I’ve been considering what I once was adamant against: dying in pvp. In the original iteration of DiabloWikiPVP you were tossed into an arena with a partner fighting another group for your life. You didn’t know what was on the other side, and you didn’t know how much your partner could help. However dueling changes that and my opinion as well.
Diablo 3 v1.0.7 PvP

We first to be clear it isn’t an option and has been stated by Blizzard

We currently have no plans to allow permanent death for Hardcore characters in the dueling world. That said, we’re not really keen on the word “never,” and we may make changes depending on player feedback and what we feel would provide the best user experience (something which can change as the game evolves).

However it does seem like they may be swayed. So let me make my case:

Dueling now involves consent, not that the other system didn’t. However, now I know exactly what I’d be facing. I can see their gear, I can see their skills, and I can see if I could kill them. I can choose the amount of risk I want to take and if I’m not confident I don’t have to risk it.

There is also no competive angle here. No ladders, no match points just the chance to duel it out. There is nothing gained from a duel to the death other than pride and maybe an ear? Since there is no incentive to do it it will only attract those people who really want to risk it. It also may take an edge of off attempts to PK and may allow people to really find out who is better, or to avenge a death from a nefarious player.

It also could help stimulate our economy a bit more. More deaths equals more need for gear, more people leveling to play with and more items leaving the economy. We’ve become pretty safe in our farming routes and sub-elite gear lays stagnant in the AH resembling the softcore auction house.

When Jay first announced that Hardcore pvp would be to the death I was against it. The number of viable hardcore players in pvp would dwindle down in a matter of days and rebuilding would be tedious and the risk not worth it. However with a return to a Diablo 2 style dueling option my opinion have changed. It’s time to let us put up or shut up on how hardcore we actually are. I imagine it might be easy to implement, just create a separate dueling master for fatal dueling. I suggest Shang Tsangh from Mortal Kombat, but that may not work. That duel master would of course inform you that what you are about to do could kill you and you would need to click okay much like the boss battles in D3.

I was never a heavy dueler in D2 but occasionally I liked to press my luck. I liked to see how I fared against other players when my life was on the line. I didn’t win all the time but when I did it felt like a earned win. Dueling without the option to go to the death feels like a missed opportunity to hark back to a passion for some from D2.

Now, in it’s current iteration, dueling may not be the kindest with permadeath. Being one shot is never fun ( as most of us remember from Inferno at launch) but as they polish the dueling system perhaps this is an idea they need to revisit. After all that is what the T in PTR is for, and hopefully once it’s moved past a one shot fest we can really fight for our life.

What do you guys think should hardcore dueling be fatal or remain the same?

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19 thoughts on “Hardcore dueling: Life or death?

  1. Hardcore dueling death as an OPTION agreed upon by both players involved I think would be friggin’ awesome. I would be much more interested in the hardcore game if this were an option. Maybe have some sort of Hardcore Death Tournament or something? 16 enter, one man leaves. Imagine the bragging rights!

  2. lol would be fun if when someone died,
    there would be 50% chance to drop 1 item from his inventory!

  3. In my opinion they just need to make the path back to level 60 Inferno less tedious. Even with hellfire rings and Cains set, there’s the need for other people to help advance you through three difficulty levels. It would be better if having played through Inferno, our new characters are born with access to all waypoints and quests. If we could skip straight to act 3, starting over would be fine.

    • Uh, I suck at Diablo 3, and I got to level 60 inferno in about a month. It’s not too hard, it’s too easy.

  4. I think Hardcore characters should have one PVE life and one PVP life. Seperating it out like that makes it suddenly a workable system – if you have a character in PVE that has died, you might as well go out in a blaze of PVP glory. Or every level 60 character gets to try the thrill of PVP at least once….and people who can keep a win streak alive are just gods.

  5. here’s an IDEA i posted in one of the bnet threads:

    how about hc tournaments with permadeath?
    something like Battle.net World Championship http://us.battle.net/bwc/en/

    basically they run championship tournaments every weekend
    1. you can sign up until friday evening
    2. its single elimination brackets
    3. every death is permanent
    4. free for all levels, no divisions
    5. tournament winner gets achievement?

    1. when you win a match you get the option to choose one of the losing players items
    2. this item then becomes tournament bound – cannot be used in normal mode, only in tournaments – means player can’t simply save it for normal mode and never use it in tournaments again.
    3. this will help winning players to gear up during the tournament progression so finals should have the strongest heros facing each other

      • good observation, at least for the part where it would help further down in tournament.
        what are the options then?
        -use gear for other chars in future tournaments
        -guess you don’t HAVE to strip the corpse if you don’t want to or don’t need anything 🙂
        -transmute main stats on items to fit class much like the armor looks are changed – probably too many variables

        this is probably the reason why they were thinking about pvp tokens as a reward

  6. I hope they won’t waste time trying to implement something like that for maybe 0,01% of the players…

  7. I don’t see many people engaging in hardcore permadeath duels. At least not with legit characters. If it was allowed people would just use their garbage low level characters or whatever alts they might feel like suiciding. One shot duels arn’t exactly skill based. It could be over in two seconds regardless of what you do. Plus there are no rewards for winning nor will there be anytime soon. I foresee there being a lot of really great suggestions on the forums in terms of what they can do with PvP over the next few months. I also foresee Blizzard ignoring the vast majority and making very small changing that do nothing to make PvP a “fun” aspect of the game. I hope they prove me wrong.

  8. I think you are forgetting something… Blizzard All-stars.
    My conspiracy theory, is that they don´t want to create a good pvp for diablo3, that will compete with blizzard all-stars in the future. If we want a good dueling, team death match game, we will need to pay 60$ for a new game.

  9. I do remember that presentation and subsequent q&a quite vividly, when they revealed arena pvp at BlizzCon. It wasn’t too many minutes apart that the game director stated that

    a) they didn’t think they could ever really balance pvp in Fiasco III to an e-sports degree
    and b) hardcore character deaths would be permanent.

    These two kinda contradict each other. Either they were still in a very rough planning phase when they made those bold statements, or were already just as clueless back then.

  10. Sad to see there will be no perma death HC PVP…

    Some of my favorite duels in Diablo 2 were low level HC duels. We would form a party then level up to lvl 13. We would then duel using only the items we found while leveling. Last man standing wins. Was a blast!

    I hope Blizzard adds an option for perma death pvp. Its just another way players can play the game the way they want insead of Blizzard always defining what is fun for us…

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