Endless Dungeons and More Randomized Maps: Coming Soon?

Bold comments from Travis Day on two of the most debated issues/problems about Diablo 3; bigger/better dungeons and level layouts.

I think the real reason for player fatigue is due to the maps not being random enough. The place looks similar after five times play through. The developers should also make the map outline random and not just linear – just like in D1 and D2. This way, the game would definitely look fresh every game. Also, the random event holes currently built in are not even remotely noticeable. Every time I get a side quest I go like “oh, this again” instead of “wow, what could be waiting for me” kind of reaction.
Travis Day: Thanks for the feedback. Generally we agree with you on this. We are actively investigating ways to increase the replayability of the end game by introducing more random and varied play experiences. I just got out of one of those meetings in fact and we are continuing to iterate on and explore new ideas in this area. Running the same parts of Act 3 repeatedly, while still enjoyable, is certainly less random than what we would like the experience to be.

Another fan voiced the popular suggestion that the game add new, bigger, deeper dungeons. Perhaps even bottomless dungeons. Travis was all over that one too, and once again he’s largely in agreement.

Travis Day: Replayability and ideas like Endless Dungeons come up a lot around the office. We definitely have plans to expand the game in these areas. Adding more monster power levels is also something that we have discussed. I personally love the idea of an endless dungeon, don’t take that as a quote that I promised we are adding them though!

At the heart of that idea is something really compelling, wave events, endless dungeons, hold out missions etc. Standing as the lone hero, or one of a party of heroes, against an onslaught of demons really sells the fantasy of Diablo, it’s just a matter of taking the seed of that idea and iterating on it to a point where it feels like it fits into the game as a piece and not just “the only thing to do”.

I do hope that down the road we can find some way to make that idea a part of the content options players have at their disposal. I’ve said one numerous occasions, in a perfect world, when a player sits down at their computer for the evening to play the Diablo the question I want them to say to themselves is “What do I feel like doing tonight?” not “Ok time to run Act 3 again”.

Add these to the ever-growing stack of “their promises are awesome, but man doth not sup ‘pon words alone.”

I might need to learn that trick though, if they ever do add a bottomless dungeons. Currently, when I’m really in the mood to play, and my DiabloWikiMagic Find seems to be working as designed, it’s only the end of good farming areas in each act that gets me to stop when the zones are all cleared. If there were moar, even bottomless moar… um…

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36 thoughts on “Endless Dungeons and More Randomized Maps: Coming Soon?

    • Unlike the “no more AH” post, the blue quotes actually have the little “trackback/Blizz” button on the bottom, meaning you can actually go to the official forums to see the original posts. Those posts were actually made a few days ago… so there may be some cause for actual hope with this one.

      • I’m clearly very tired- sorry for cramming so many uses of “actual/actually” into that last post. Sleepy time? Yes, it is indeed sleepy time.*

        *The point still stands though: this one actually isn’t a joke.
        See what I did there?
        Seriously, not a joke. Good night.

        • You are right it was posted 3 days ago, so maybe might we get random dungeons, maybe even this decennium 🙂

      • wow so flux posted these in anticipation that everyone would expect these changes to be april-fool-pranks. and thus created an news item which was obviously a disguised april-fools-prank only to unveil that it is no april-fools-prank which in itself is a really elaborate april-fools-prank.

        so meta.

      • I’m all for April Fool’s day fun, but this is my big complaint with their “joke” today. IMO, if I see them quoting a blue post in a blue blizz box, I expect it to be authentic. I’m a tad annoyed that they broker that.

      • And how does that make it less of a joke? It’s actually gonna be even worse because he’s flat out lying in people’s faces. I smell another JW fiasco, another one on the way out.

        It’s an April Fool’s joke disguised as a usual hollow promise, and the end result is exactly the same as an April Fool’s joke: leaving those who believed him with egg on their faces.

  1. Yeah it’s promising. I just wish they’d actually get to the point of showing us something concrete instead of “having talks about it in the office” for months on end.

    • I heard tales about new content in Diablo 3, but seeing it with my own eyes… It is another thing entirely

    • No. Now shut up and buy more loot on the RMAH.
      It’s not their fault discussing improvements to D3 on the PC is only allowed during the last five minutes of their discussions on console merchandising.

    • They have more pressing issues to deal with right now, not all the programmers are using the correct cover sheet for their TPS reports.

  2. The game world as it stands right now is simply too small to randomize anyways, especially when all outdoor areas are static, which won’t be changing. What exactly do they randomize then? The game is broken.

    • you kinda answered your own question…. when you state that all the outdoor areas are static…. THAT’S what they randomize. make the static maps not so static.

  3. I heard that are also adding tons of useful legendary items, and implementing skill trees!

  4. It’s utterly baffling to me that none of these issues were seriously considered internally during the many many years of development before release. It’s like they polished the combat and skills reasonably well, wrote a crap story, and forgot to do anything else that would make the game interesting. Even if they’d just copied WoW and given us raids, that would’ve been *something*. An indication that they were at least trying.

    Hell, we still have to manually skip every cutscene. How has that not been patched yet?

    • They had to consider how large this game would be for the console release. They cut back to 4 players. They removed the ability to make your own multiplayer game and added the usual console random matchmaking. They took out anything random and made a bunch of linear, static maps. All these things save space so they can put it on as few discs as possible for Xbox360/PS3.

      Maybe these great features were considered at one point (elemental damage that is meaningful, an in-depth stat system, fully random maps and endless dungeons), but then the old, “Don’t think that would work on consoles” popped up and then we got Diablo 3.

      • I disagree with the statement that the crappy matchmaking system exists because they wanted consistency in the console version compared to the PC version. For one, lots of other elements, including the UI is different on console so it can be assumed that they could have made matchmaking console-exclusive. Secondly, systems other then straight-up anonymous matchmaking work on console. You don’t necessarily have to use the stupid simplistic system we have. Look at Left 4 Dead 2 on console for example. It has 1 to 4 player games and uses a lobby system.

      • You DO realize that there is such a thing as DLC and downloadable updates even on consoles these days, right? How do you think they’re going to patch the game in the future? I’m pretty sure it’s not about saving space. They could ship the game on one disc and have a content download run instantly to bring the game up to speed.

  5. “Adding more monster power levels is also something that we have discussed.”


    • Yeah that statement is baffling and a little scary. You can’t just keep tacking on and then protracting systems to maintain the difficulty distribution…in the hopes that that will help overshadow some of the other things that are sorely missed in the game thus far.

  6. Adding more MP levels? Seriously? Talk about not getting it.

    Back in May, if the devs had said “We’ll be adding two systems plus PvP in the next 8 months”, I don’t think they could have done any worse than MP, paragon leveling, and “brawling.”

  7. LOL considering the time span between blizzard devs ‘talking’ about upcoming features and the actual moment of implementation, plus 6-8 weeks on the PTR… I would say end of summer at best for this one.

  8. “We are actively investigating ways to increase the replayability of the end game by introducing more random and varied play experiences.”

    Well, good luck to you then – you’ll need it.

    The answer to this particular problem does not lie in your usual numeric tweaks, but in content creation. Specifically in its quality and quantity, both aspects of the game that, putting it mildly, very obviously seem to have fallen victim to economic considerations. When there is nothing to randomize, even the most sophisticated randomization routine cannot do its job – no matter how much time you spend pondering over probabilities.

    The second topic – a fully randomized endless dungeon – is a rather conflicting issue, in my opinion. On the one hand, I did very much enjoy these gameplay variations in other games that managed to pull them off properly. So, on the occasion that the Diablo III development team is once again up for putting some effort into actually developing Diablo III further (must…resist…pvp…referrr…), why not? Because:

    On the other hand, recalling the title’s roots, what other than a fully randomized (endless) dungeon is a Diablo game supposed to be? Diablo I: Several consecutive levels worth hours of gameplay, highly random layout/population/rewards, mostly optional side-quests/lore/dialogue. If Diablo III had remained true to its origin, the whole game would already be what its now trying to expand on. Instead, the game dictates the horrible pacing of a story that doesn’t deserve the authority of affecting gameplay and at the same time it barely offers enough relevant content for even non-randomized gameplay.

    D3 doesn’t need to include a D1-style dungeon – it needs to BE a game closer to the superior core designs and achievements of its predecessors. Adjustments should be made where they make sense from a gameplay perspective, not for business-political reasons.

  9. “Running the same parts of Act III, WHILE STILL ENJOYABLE…”

    LOL this poor guy thinks it’s still enjoyable to run Act III nonstop. There are no words…

    • Moldran made a youtube video 2 days ago and talked about how running Act 3 over and over is boring and how the xp in Inferno is broken

      so when even Moldran finally says Act 3 if boring, then you know the game has problems

      • Yeah it reminds me of when Kripp hit his “Act III nausea wall” and quit the game never to mention D3 again on his channel. I was like man what a puss! I’ll never get tired of farming Act I inferno who even cares about Act III lol.

        One month later I realized how stupid it was to NOT be farming Act III. Two months of farming Act III later I hit the same wall. The mere sight of anything to do with that portion of the game now causes me to recoil in terror. Several times I opted to catch up on paperwork rather than farm Act III again. That’s bad. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced that with a game.

  10. I remember Hellgate:London doing the endless dungeon. Randomized maps are a nice editon.

  11. My gosh! It’s pretty funny to read all this shit in the comment section. First I was so tired of this to be honest, but now I kinda enjoy it. I like the guy that thinks still playing the game makes you a fool and somehow forgets that going to a forum for a game he think is foolish to play might just be more foolish.

    Nevermind, I’m not sure a endless dungeon would fix or add anything to the game. Sounds just like a stupid idea someone on a forum would suggest. They better work on items, passive skills and balance I’d say.

  12. it’s not hard to understand the design issues Blizz have here. If they make a compelling endelss dungeon everyone will farm that, and only that. The solution is to make a boring one.

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