End-game Items Broken? Legendaries much Weaker than Common Magic Items?


Our affiliated site Diablo 3 Markets have posted some pretty concerning stuff about how Weapons and Legendaries have been tuned in the end-game. It appears that the best Legendary items may be drastically undertuned, and common Blue weapons being far superior and relatively easy to obtain. Head over to the article for more details. A very concerning development indeed.

There is a thread about this issue on the main forums that has yielded a Bashiok response:

Intended design is for an end-game characters to have a mixture of set/legendary, rare, and crafted items.
Legendary items are commonly not going to be the best items. It’s a title that denotes a named item, with set stats, and a unique model. It does not mean they’re the best items.
Completely random rares will be the best items in the game if they roll up the right stats.
….
The problem is legendary items are complete garbage currently. It was fun to find a great legendary in D2. It is no fun to find rares. It isn’t hard to understand, legendaries should be much, much better then they are, and there should be more of them.

Common, Blue weapons having double the damage on them then the “best” legendary weapons is a broken design, if your goal is to make a fun game.

I will take that feedback. Thank you.

As to the “more of them”, Diablo III at launch has more Legendaries than Diablo II had at launch. I’m sure we’ll add more as time goes on, but I do not agree that we don’t already have a lot.
….
Loot is messed up, period. This is carrot on a stick gameplay. It’s a simple idea. If most of the time you finally catch a carrot and it’s rotten, eventually you just stop giving chase.

If you’d like to give any specifics I’d be happy to write them down.

Update: A 1027 DPS 1hand Magic sword. So if you had any doubts previously, here you go:

Tagged As: | Categories: Items, Legendary Items

Comments

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  1. looks balanced to me. The legendary has +2 random affixes and a lot more affixes overall.

    • How is that balanced? An average azurewrath has over 100 DPS less than the item, and is far inferior. +100 Damage is much better than all of those affixes combined, plus some.

      Do you know how rare a perfect Azurewrath is that gets over 700 DPS? It’s about a billion times (literally) rarer than that magic weapon.

      • It is balanced, that blue has no other stats which is super cool when you are comparing epeen character sheet dps numbers but doesn’t mean jack shit in Inferno when you have no life, no armor, no resist, etc. because you chose to go with a bunch of blue items that give you max dps and lack other vital stats.

        At the end of the day rares > everything else in the game, (and a rare is nothing more than a magic item with more affixes) and the perfect rare will be much much much more rare (no pun intended) than a comparable legendary since the affixes will be much more limited on Legendary items.
        This has been stated as how items were designed well before the game came out by Blizzard, and that is exactly how it should be. 

        • These were my thoughts. I don’t think people have spent enough time in Inferno or even getting gear to have a real good idea of what “great” gear even is.
           

          • Well that Legendary weapon is hardly great gear. I had far more strength and vitality on my lvl 45 axe than “the most legendary” sword in the game has. 38-45 vitality in Inferno is next to nothing. And as we all know, aside from dps vitality + primary stat is more or less all that matters. Azzure is right; this is a concerning issue and it needs to be adressed. 

          • You have to consider that the blue Weapon used in this example is hardly top tier. There are 1-hand weapons with more that 1000 dps already for sale in the EU auction house.
            Having a big variety of “regular” items instead of “all-the-same uniques” on top keeps the auction house interesting and incites people to grind gold and, ultimately in Blizzards best interests, to spend RL money. 

          • Legendary MUST BE x10 times better than blue crap.
            If ppls argue about what is better there…it’s alredy a prove that something wrong with itemization.
             

      • ” +100 Damage is much better than all of those affixes combined, plus some.”

        😆   😆   😆   😆  

      • Survivability >>> 100 damage late-game.

        • 100 weapon dps can increase your actual dps by about 2000 because everything scales based on weapon damage. “Crappy” blues can get a lot higher than 700 dps too.

          Survivability is still very important but a lot of people underestimate weapon damage.

      • Give me a break Azzure, until you present some sort of information as why when we are presented with:

        2 random magic properties vs 2 random magic properties + a shit ton of other useful bonuses

        we shouldn’t consider the latter to be categorically superior then this article is just sensationalist rabble rousing pandering to the mathematical incompetence of the masses when it comes to things like understanding sample sizes.
         
        For someone that touts themselves as an expert economist I expected you to have a better grasp of these things than the unwashed masses but perhaps I was mistaken.  This isn’t to say there might not be any problem with the current system itemization system, but if there is such a problem, nothing in this article provides any evidence for it.

        • No, you’re talking out of your ass. It’s not “a **** ton” of useful bonuses, the bonuses are basically non-existent. As you can see, they have the same attack speed. You can find blue weapons with over 1000 dps. If you actually knew what you’re talking about, you would know that those extra 100-400 extra DPS outshines 45 to all stats (which is if it’s a perfect Azurewrath, GL finding that) by lightyears. The Azurewrath basically sucks, if you think about the fact that it’s supposed to be the best legendary sword in the game.

          • How the fuck am I talking out my ass? I’m not even making any claims, how can you be talking out yoru ass without even making a claim?
             
            I’m asking for a good article, I’m not even claiming that the claim presented in this article is false, I’m claiming it’s poorly argued, it’s a fucking question about the system, and what uniques are theoretically possible.
             
            I am asking for evidence to support the claims being made, and not just fucking screen shots of random items signifying single fucking data points from which we can conclude virtually nothing about the potential of legendary items.  If there is fucking evidence about how the system works that supports the claims of this article then fucking direct people to that, this article doesn’t provide any evidence for its’ claim that Azurewrath caps out at 100-400 DPS lower than the blues pictured, it doesn’t prove shit to anyone capable of basic rational thought.
            You’re a fucking moron, go fuck yourself.

      • Is that cold damage added up to the value in that web page item?
         
        Also the 2 extra affixes could roll some really nice stats like critical dmg etc. Also the stats give dmg as well.

        • Yes. The “big-number” DPS of a weapon (as well as the “white” damage spread beneath it, actually) accounts for +damage affixes and gems, though not your class’s stat modifier (ie, it wont change numbers if a barbarian passes a Dex sword to a demon hunter)

  2. If you roll the 700+ on Azurewrath and one of the random properties is the Lightning Damage from the Magic item (or similar) then you’ve already matched the magic item plus you get all the other stat bonuses and 1 more magic property.

    What sucks is that there’s basically 1 Legendary weapon with the highest dmg so you’re stuck with one look. I’d have hoped they’d make more variety within the same quality level. Personally I like the look of Skycutter, Doombringer and Griswold’s Masterpiece more but at the very endgame I’m stuck with Azurewrath if I want to do the most dmg (unless there are better Rare items, which brings us back to the article’s point).

    • Azurewrath already has cold damage and as far as I’m aware no other elemental damage can roll on it as a stat.

      • oh, I did not know that you can only have 1 type of dmg (even though it’s always 1 type on all the items I’ve found so far). But even then, the cold dmg is capped at 313 vs the 440 on the Magic item. I am not sure how much DPS the extra 127 would add but it might bring it closer to the magic item?

        It all depends on the rarities though. If there are many more items like that magic one dropping around then the Legendary item is broken as it’s supposed to be much harder to find. Something harder to find should give you a better reward.

        • “I am not sure how much dps the Extra 127 would add”
          Let’s math it out!
          Let’s say you Are a Barbarian, and you have the 740 cold affix blue, and an imperfectly rolled Azurewrath (because this will be more common). The Azurewrath will have average stats, literally:
          622.1 DPS
          204-210 damage
          1.67 APS
          Because the tooltip takes damage mods into account, we’ll not list those, but we will list the Strength you as a barb recieve: 41.5
          each point in strength for you is a percent increase in damage. As quick and dirty math, we can just take that 622.1, and multiply by 1.4 for your net increase. This means the Legendary now has a dps value of 870. While that’s a respectable upgrade, when did legendaries mean respectable?
          To take it out of the game realm, what if King Arthur had Excalibur melted down because he found a new sword made from titanium? WHO MELTS DOWN EXCALIBUR?!
          Back to my point, however. What if that blue had a third affix? what if that third affix had also been Strength? what if it had 60 Strength? Now the blue is superior again. See the problem?
           
           

          • You cannot calculate strength into damage like that.
             
            Strength has a diminishing effect since it always adds % of your base damage, so once you have ~1000 strength (not much for inferno or even hell), each point of strength only increases your overall damage by ~0.1%.
             
            Increased weapon damage however scales with all that strength you already have, making it extremely powerful.
             
            So, legendaries aren’t just not good enough upgrades, they aren’t upgrades at all, which is the entire problem.

  3. Thats not good at all, especially with how rare even the lower level legendaries are. I agree that they shouldn’t always be the best items in the game but they should be near the top.
     

  4. Itemization so far has been absolutely awful.  Finding a good piece of gear simply comes down to
    1. High armor/Damage
    2. Primary attribute
    3. Vitality
    4. A socket for a ruby in weapons
    Regardless of class these rules pretty much are the only deciding factors in whether a item is good or trash.   All that time spent on itemization and we’ve got basically nothing.  I hope that it will work out a little better at the higher levels (level 43 currently).

    • you’re right for the most part, I found myself following similar rules during my playthrough. I am hoping there are undiscovered interactions though, like for example if your skills give more life steal/gen/max then maybe it’s better to sacrifice an item with more +vitality for one with better DPS or vice versa. Similarly with other stats/properties.

      Emeralds also give you more critical hit chance if I remember correctly, which might play nicely with some of the skills based on critical hits. It would require some experimentation to see the outcomes. 

      • Life steal is a pretty rare affix so I’ve never had a reason to try to build around it.  Also as a WD I need the vita for my minions anyway and they can’t benefit from the life steal.

        Emeralds only increase the critical hit damage.  Unless you are building for high crit chance it probably won’t be as good as a ruby. 

    • You don’t know what is good and what is bad yet. It took a while for people to find all the different uses for affixes/skills in D2, the same will be for D3. Once dueling comes in I’m sure different affixes will be seen as useful. It’s just like the beta; we still have only scratched the surface. 

      Just chill, man.  

      • Maybe not at level 60, but up to my current level nothing else compares in effectiveness and I don’t even see that changing soon either based on the known mods.

        • “but up to my current level”

          Exactly. Up to your current level both in experience of the game, and the actual level of your character. Give D3 some time, everyone did the same for D2 and we all (I assume) came out smiling.  

          Such a harsh judgement after a mere 4 days is too quick. You may be completely right in the end, but I dunno. I’d rather wait; they did spend an awful long time creating it. 

          Or the brokenness of the game might become part of it, like D2. (Gold, runes, useless skills galore, rushing, etc.)

          • This man speaks the truth, people need to experience inferno and give the game some time.

            And not, ZOMG IM IN NIGHTMARE KILLING STUFF WITH 10,000DPS!!! 

          • Sorry, but if the first 40 levels of the game are bad, then something still needs to be done.  Maybe it will be better at 60 but I’d still like those first 40 levels to be enjoyable and engaging the next four+ times I do it.

          • have YOU put priority on any different stats for your level ? 

            and what is your level ? 

      • I know that while leveling, using a fast dagger with a socketed ruby and +damage rings and amulet you can literally double the highest dps you can approach with a 2h weapon using any number of different gear setups.

        That’s really all I need to know to tell you it’s broken.

        • Different gear huh?  Nice to know you won’t allow an objective, fair comparison.

          • +damage scales with weapon speed, so it’s terrible for slow weapons by comparison.
            If you use the exact same gear and throw on a 2hand weapon, it’s laughably worse.

            That’s why I mentioned trying different gear setups.

            I thought that by replacing the +damage mods with more primary stat or attack speed that I could maybe catch back up, but it’s just not possible.  
            +damage and a fast weapon simply out-scales anything you can do with a 2h weapon.

      • I can’t wait to see all the different uses for 2% knockback or 5% blind.

    • exactly the mods I search for when I look for items in the gold AH 

  5. I found two legendaries today.  Both had around level 30ish item requirement while I was in the mid to low 30s.  The rare items that I had on me were much better than the two legendary items.  

    I know that I am not at the end game, but when I am just above the level requirement to equip the legendary item and whatever I am wearing is much better, there is a problem.

    • How much magic find do you have? SP or MP? where were these found?
       
      I haven’t found anything yet and I just beat the Skeleton King in Hell, and have been farming act4 Nightmare for quite a bit. I know there are tons of other people who haven’t found anything either, so I’m curious to know …what’s the trick? 😛

      • I’ve found two legendaries as well, but my brother still hasn’t found one and we both have about 50 hours logged.  I found one in act II normal and one in act IV nightmare.  Both were found from chests and I had no mf gear.  One I found in SP and the other MP.

      • I just got lucky, one dropped off of a normal mob in A2 and the other from a chest or barrel in A3.  I have no mf gear on.

        edit: I found the in nm

    • did you find them on normal or nightmare? I haven’t gotten a single legendary throughout the whole normal 🙁 But based on what you said, maybe that’s a good thing? 🙂

  6. Blizzard boned themselves on itemizing Diablo III, the affix pool is terribly tiny, balance between different item qualities is nonexistent, and uniques are either just recycled D1/2 uniques, or ones with distasteful pop culture names.

    • Have you actually looked at the available affixes on Diablonut? I don’t think you have and are simply throwing random garbage out there.

  7. I like the way it is. Rares should be random and have a rare chance to be super good.

    • But now they are almost always as good or better than legendaries, which are more than 100 times rarer.

      • Thats not true, out of 500ish Rares total I got, maybe 30 were good, none were perfect. So most of the rares suck, finding the ones that are better then Legendaries is the challenge.

        • And how many legendaries did you find in that same timeframe that were better than any of those 30 “good” rares?

          That’s the problem.
          Finding a “good” legendary is orders of magnitude more unlikely than finding a good rare.  
          By the time you’ve found a good legendary, you have handfuls of rares that beat it.

  8. So far, my guy is covered in Rare Items but it does come down to a few simple stats and the rest gets sold or salvaged. 
     
    I found one Legendary Ring today and it was complete shit.  I mean yes, it had a few good afixes on it, but had no strength or vitality and compared to my other Rare’s it was crap. 

  9. LOL at this example.
     
    The dps on the blue item is 740.5 and it has no helpful mods.
     
    Azurewrath has 522-722 dps which is including the %ias and damage modifiers. When you actually equip Azurewrath, it’s dps will go up another 38-45%, or up to 720.6-1047.2. If you get lucky on the random properties and roll more addition to your primary stat and damage, that number can go up even more. I’m guessing that a perfectly rolled Azurewrath will be doing between 1200 and 1400 dps, which is way better than anything in the game currently, based on what’s currently available on the auction house (the highest dps currently available is 1040 dps, and the next best is the mid 800s).
     
    Not only is this a piss poor example of the current system “being bad,” it actually shows that Blizzard seems to have gotten it right.

    • What are you talking about?  The listed DPS is the DPS of the weapon.  It isn’t going to change when you equip it.  The only way that number changes is if you add a gem to it otherwise the listed value is what it stays.

      • He’s including the primary damage stat, which is +38-45% damage for whatever character class equips this sword.

        • Also I think it would be possible to roll more to the primary stat or even more cold damage from the random affix ( as it’s limited to 1 type of damage ), so maybe there could be an Azurewrath with +700 cold damage and +240 dex/str/int, but that’s speculation, untill more people starts getting these we wont know. If it was possible though, we’d see Azurewraths with 1200 dps+.

    • Yea the DPS is what it is. Please don’t post inaccurate information as it may mislead people to spend gold or even real money on useless items. Azzure’s example is fine and the issue is real.

    • Not to mention there’s currently a 1300+dps twohander in the european AH today.

      • It seems the writers of this website havnt played diablo 3 enuff ? The legendary you show is just the template from the site. When that item is found in game, it will put out way more dmg than you think.
        The one, the %dmg increase that it has isnt applied to the DPS of the weap, but to your overall dps, so you can not really imagine the effect till you equip it. Besides that it has random props. If one of those rolls another dmg mod then the weapon could be even more insane.

        Also the increased stat will also bump the damage up.

    • Don’t you just love when people who have no idea what they are talking about argue your points and say that you’re the idiot?
       
      Like other people pointed out, the listed weapon DPS includes elemental and IAS already in it.

      • “Don’t you just love when people who have no idea what they are talking about argue”
         
        No, I don’t, and that’s precisely why I am disappointed in this article.

      • But it doesn’t include the additional damage from the mainstat. That’s why when you equip an 100 DPS weapon with your mainstat and an then switch it out for an 105 DPS weapon that doesn’t have your mainstat, your DPS goes down. Because that Azurewrath has every stat on it, its DPS is actually (potentally) higher than the blue weapon. You can verify this in two seconds in the game.
        *Sad tombone noise*

        • If you had 0 dex ( I’m gonna use dex as an example ) other then the weapon then yes, it would be better, but when you have 1000 it’s not, 900 dps sword x 1000% = 9000 dps, 700 dps sword x 1045% = 7315.

      • Ha ha ha… I didn’t even noticed on the others comments and just saw it now that someone said before what I was pointing and you think he’s wrong… *facepalm*
        No wonder why I think this website sometimes posts non-sense articles.

        Keep going like that.

  10. There is currently a 2 hander with 1350 dps on EU AH and Grandfather got 720 xD
     

  11. At lvl 56, so not quite 60, I agree. Sockets, vitality and high dmg is pretty much all that matters. And your primary attribute is nice too of course. We’ve found 3 legendaries so far, all of which can not compare to rares or even good blues at same level. Would be nice with some more variety and legendaries should definitely be beefed up a little (or blues nerfed, but a bit hard now). I want to like the legendaries, but the fact is that your character is much better off with a good blue or rare. You should check out the hardcore AH btw, it’s impossible to find any decent items at all with vitality 😛

    Also, what is the deal with 2h weapons? They have the same damage as 1h weapons up until hell or so. Have not seen anyone on hardcore use a 2h weapon because there is no incentive at all to do so until maybe level 60. Which is a shame, cause they look absolutely badass. I’m just about to do a barbarian alt and hoping to be able to actually be able to buy some stuff from AH by the time I get to hell so I can survive with a 2 hander 🙂

  12. Yo have to admit though, visually Azurewrath is one of the most beautiful sword I have ever seen, really hope I can find it.

  13. The problem is, EVERYTHING goes back to your weapon damage – there are rares on the AH right now, 1 handed, with over 1200 dps.  That absolutely CRUSHES the legendaries – I’m ok with the Random rares being that good, but the legnedaries should have a chance to roll up those crazi damage modifiers as well.

    Right now, from everything I can tell, Legendary items are 100% trash and will be unless somthing is fixed, and fixed soon (before RMH).

    Its looking like tier 3 inferno gear (act 3 and 4) will be able to roll up 1400+ damage.. which completely deystroys the legendaries.

    The legnedaries need to be givien some love, and fast     

  14. :mrgreen: I think I like Legendary items to be this way. This way, people who hasn’t gotten their Legendary drop can still has something to defend themselves against inferno enemies.

    • “This way, people who hasn’t gotten their Legendary drop …” except that as it is legendaries are completely pointless whether you have them or not so what purpose do they serve?

  15. I am in hell mode and so far I haven’t found one legendary yet.  I have almost 40% magic find too.

    Legendaries should be the best unless you get a near perfectly rolled rare I feel is the common consensus.  It seems like legendaries are way underpowered where that is not nearly the case and they should be tweaked.

  16. I don’t mind that they want us to have mixed gear, but it’s definitely more exciting to find a legendary than a good rare. So they take a good element out of the game if legendaries aren’t among the best.

  17. The base dps on the weapon is the most usefull stat in the game. 100-200 more dps on that weapon translates in a lot more dmg. Once you get to hell your going to realise that you can’t reach the defensive/ofensive balance with crap dps legendaries. You can’t stack only defensive stats because you still get one shoted by overkill champ combos. Your best bet is to actualy have enough dps to kill them faster and not try to survive fire chain/arcane mobs with a 2-3k hp bonus instead of that 100 dps.
     

    • THIS.

      Even a slight increase in DPS makes a huge difference, because from hell and up, kiting a few mobs will become the norm. No matter how strong you are (I have 38k hp at lvl 55 on a demon hunter), you won’t be able to go close to enemies. You’ll have to snipe them hard and fast, because 2 champion mobs up close and personal = gg.

      There is no balance anyway. 

  18. Legendaries are close to worthless in D3 with very few exceptions

  19. The items in this game suck, period. End of argument. They ruined the game when they took all the possibilities of getting + skills, + stats, + cool procs happening from random stuff. That was the fun stuff. They took it out. This game has terribly bland and boring items. 
    They thought making items scale to show you big flashy numbers and large hp pools would mean “fun” but i think they honestly lost that concept.

    The rest of the game is pretty solid. Besides inferno, dumbest under-tuned piece of garbage ever. Hardcore players CANT and will never see any of the end game gear because of blizzards dumb decision. At least make it possible for good players to beat it with out dying.

    The only question i’m asking is who quit, or who did blizzard fire that used to make these games FUN? Because they certainly don’t work there now.

    • Exactly, all the random stats in D2 was awesome. Loved procs too, they need to add some unique abilities to these legendaries as well as upping the damage, items are so boring as they are now. Don’t get me wrong, loving a lot of what they did with the skills and difficulty (up to and including hell, couldn’t care less about inferno as I play HC), but the loot need to be revised FAST.

      Also wish there was more fun loot, like legendaries and sets etc, you never get that WOW moment when you see a drop anymore. No sets has dropped for us either, I’m guessing they can probably only be crafted. Between me and my friend both playing to lvl 56 (plus a few alts to lower levels), we’ve only seen 3 exciting drops (legendaries) and all have been low level and still crap for their level.

      EDIT: haven’t seen any blacksmith plans drop either, but maybe that’s just for inferno, I don’t know. Makes sense for them to be rare I guess.

      • I agree with you about the “wow” moments.  A good unique would drop in Diablo 2 and I would say “wow”.  In this game I just yawn when I see the next rare with slightly better stats.

  20. Just checked the ah. Aparently a shitty blue 1h fist has higher dmg than a Grandfather. This is so sad.
    They should fire the idiots who made this itemization system.

  21. Legendary to me sounds like the ultimate find. In no way it should be outdone by blues.

    Sorry, that is a broken game design. 

    The term legendary in iself says greatness. Not mediocre. Hell, if if this was what they was wanting they dropped the ball at the term legendary. Unique fits the bill much better.     

    • It seems that now they’re Legendary in how crappy they are.

      I have a nice crossbow on my char. A lvl 55, 400 dps one with 120dex, 150 vitality and 80 strength. This item will piss from above on most legendary items below lvl 60. 

  22. Sad thing is, i don’t think they can do anything about it now. It’s the design they settled on. It would take a MASSIVE patch to fix the item system.

    • At the moment they don’t need to fix the entire item system.
      Just revamp the legendary items. They’re not that many, can be done in a few weeks. 

  23. I miss the old diablo 2 runewords, they needed some balancing but they were far cooler than loot in d3. The azurath has a lot of words,but those words amount to nothing spectacular if it’s suppose to be a rare item.

  24. Maybe the example in the newspost isn’t perfect, but Wizard on method team (the one that completed Inferno recently) had 1000 DPS fire magic bow, which is way better than any legendary item in the game

  25. There is currently only one problem that I have with item drops. And that is the fact, that currently I am level 53 Barb, Act I on Hell. So when I see some Rare, with 3 modifiers that really kick my ass multiple times, I at least expect it to drop something really worthwhile. But in the end, it drops level  44 blue Unique, that is way below what I already have in terms of usability. So what is the point going through this pain of defeating that Rare (which if you are really unlocky will have Plagued, Molten and Shielding modfiers at the same time), if the loot is not at least decent. In the end, the content in game outgears you, and if you have bad items and bad drops, all you are left to is to go to auction house and buy stuff from those, that are either more lucky and progressed even further in Hell or are in early Inferno, and are dropping items that are great for your current level, but still useless to them. I kinda think it was broken on purpose, so people really use AH more.

  26. loot-based game with shit loot = shit game.

  27. I love the game, but as so many here say… The items are booooring. Found loads of rares, but most of them are crap so I never identify them until i get into town to sell stuff. This means no excitement whatsoever. And when you now know that the legendaries are much worse than the rares, there will be no real excitement when finding those either. Seriously, there should be a chance of a rare being better than a legendary but that chance should be LOW!

  28. Problems with itemization:
    1. Diablo was ALWAYS about hunting unique items, cause they were constant in their stats and their power – in D3 this concept is out of the window, unique items are far worse and they have absurd drop rates
    2. 95% of rares is garbage meaning that there is no really sense of excitement when you see one dropped, you know in most cases it’ll be shit
    3. Crafting – sorry, but it’s not MMO. Diablo is about HUNTING items in the wild not standing in town playing wheel of fortune
    4. Low diversity in stats on items making them bland and uninteresting
    Basically, the whole concept of items is taken straight from an MMO game and put into hack’n’slash game. Ridiculous and stupid idea.

  29. I don’t get people in this page, claiming legendaries aren’t broken in its current state.

    So to get an Azurewrath that’s not utter garbage, we have to win a 500,000 sided dice roll. Twice.

    It’s not that easy to find to begin with. And well over 95% of the time, it will end up being utter garbage.

    Chances are, you will find a rare that beats it by a mile hundreds time over before you ever find an Azurewrath with the right combination. And there are people that think this is fine.

    Laughable, really. Diablo 2 had it right. Awesome rares were the best in slots. Uniques trumped average rares. Magic items had their purposes.

    Now, finding a legendary just makes one cringe.

    Seriously, Blizzard. How stupid can your design oversight get? 

  30. Diablo 3 should be like starcraft 2, it should have more things taken from the older game in order to keep the epicness. Right now, i feel like i am playing dungeon siege 2 online, with this yellow items dropping from every rare monster – TO FREQUENT !. Yellow items should drop 3 times lower that what it is now. and in the end, game is easy, evn on hell. I remember when i played hell in diablo 2 and even a 1st act champion was SOOOOO hard to kill. I also feel that we should have more green ”set” items, just becouse now, when the loot is the most important thing – 10 years of development ? LOL, blizzards feed us with all this nice in game runes, crimson, alabaster (with levels) and in the end they made ”cuts” just to relase the game. When Jay Wilson said ”we will not compromise the game content in order to relase the game quicklier” – i feel this is exactly what have happened to Diablo 3.

    • Never say that D2 hell is harder than D3 hell because that is just a straight up lie. Champions in D3 hell are way harder than any foe in D2. Way harder.

  31. I am currently at lvl 45 in nightmare at the last act. I have not found any legendary item so far :roll:.  
    So that means legendarys are very rare to find. Also there are no legendarys which could be better than my rare equipment at my current lvl.  
    The fact that they are so uncommon should mean that they are worth something. Now below lvl 60 that i not the case. So in my opinion that’s an broken system. 

  32.  
    Hmm The DPS is completely borked for both these weapons.

    What ever I do to try and get the damage and DPs values to match it fails.

    BTW it seems the disparity is even greater between the two, the blue weapon is not including its lighting damage in its DPS if it was it be saying its 1232.5 DPS.

    And the Legendary is including its cold damage in the DPS number displayed its a no contest between them in terms of DPS the blue got ~70% more DPS, I doubt the extras on the Legendary will boost stuff by 70%.

  33. As I’m playing the game, and enjoying myself so far, I have this growing fear that the game will soon start being extremely boring, and that is mostly because of the bad item pool. Honestly, since I started playing I’ve been buying magic/rare axes with +str, +vit, highest dps, and they shit on everything that can drop in game, especially uniques.
    It’s come to the point that when a rare drops, I am irritated that I have to identify it before I sell it. Also, all the items seem the same to me, it just’ about the numbers next to dps, vit and str.

    What happened to all the cool atributes from D2?:|

  34. Legendary items should be mostly a cosmetical choice, or for collecting.

    If legendary items were “the best”, then we’d end up with every character having/trying to get the same items and equipment, and randomization would be crap and boring and everyone would be a clone of eachoter.

    That is not fun to me.

    Drop balancing is a totally large and random beast,
    i remember that from my work on a diablo 2 mod,
    it is almost always to early to tell when it is right.
    And these few days after launch, are definitely to early for us to tell.

    Wait for weeks or months to pass, and possible adjusts to be made then.

    • False…
      In D2 you used various items depend on build, even when they added runed words you still had big pool to choice.
      It would take a long time and slow progress before average player would get strongest rune words.
      Bad, average or good every item from set to unique in D2 had soul but in D3 they are all same, generic stats pumpers.

      • So your are saying:

        1. In d2 we used various (specific) items depending on build.

        2. We had a big (various) pool to choose from.

        3. It took long time for average players to get the strongest runewords.

        4. D2 Items had soul in them

        5. D3 Items are all the same.

        This is very close to a straw-man argument,
        since 95% of your motivation for your “false” remark on my views, does not directly compare with what i actually wrote.

        Read it again 🙂

  35. There will be noone playing or caring in couple of months time, lol.
    What they did is made Legendary more rare Rares in terms of their effectivness. If they are so rare they should be much more powerful than Rares ’cause riight now nothing justifies their ridiculously small % to drop.

  36. It seems half the playerbase, including incgamers posters, look at D3 from a MMO (wow) loot perspective. Legendaries are *not* supposed to be the best items. I found several in D2, but they all sucked for the most part – save some utility purposes while leveling. D3 is about *random* rolls. Legendaries are flavour items, rares will be the top items by far. Also, even in D2 a blue could roll higher Damage Increase than a rare. Do not get your panties in a knot: this is exactly as intended.

    • Yeah, extremely rarely you would get a perfect roll on an eth magic item. In Diablo 3, every other drop is better than legendaries.

    • The problem is that blue up above has more damage even with out including the lighting its real damage is 1232.5 DPS. The Legendary DPS is already including the cold damage according to my calcs.

  37. I’m pissed at loot in general, not just legendary.
     
    All the stats have essentially been replaced by str/dex/vit/int. The affix pool seems non-existant. Items in Diablo 2 were awesome and had cool stats (like the runeword flail with frozen orb on striking for example) as well as jewel, runes and more gems for customization. In Diablo 3 you just take whatever has the highest main stats.
     
    Very boring, what were they thinking. They dumbed down the game more than I could’ve possibly imagined.

    • Yeah, it is what I miss as well. I loved the itemization of D2 – even though I never even got the taste of the very high level runewords. The thrill of finding a chest piece from hell difficulty with exactly 4 sockets and then finding or upgrading the required runes to make the proper rune word, finding uniques and rares with  proc and on hit stats. DIII itemization is just like wow’s in its current state. Maybe Torchlight 2 will do it right – preordered from Steam yesterday 😉

    • What a wonderfully fair comparison! A several-years-old game including an expansion and multiple updates vs a five-day-old game!

  38. Having uniques (legendaries) so weak really might kill replayability. Once you have randomly generated rares that are good enough to beat the game with – what’s going to keep you coming back for more loot? The chance of another random rare with slightly better stats? People farmed so much in D2 for the excitement of rare set/unique drops (and later on runes I suppose), because the unique artwork and special properties of these items – combined with the fact that they were powerful – made them desirable. An extra few % of some stat on a random rare might be effective, but is just not the same.
     
     
    Also from a lore / RP perspective – Azurewrath is meant to be a super-powerful angel’s sword as indicated by it’s flavor text: “Before he fell, Izual was the bearer of the runeblade Azurewrath, an ancient sword blessed by the Song of the Arch as an instrument of the righteous.” … and this gets beaten senseless by some random blue item found under a dead cow in a field. Lame. Badly thought out. I really hope they change it.
     

  39. Meh I don’t really care if blue, yellow, orange is best.
    I am worried about the affix pool
    Hopefully this is improved by the Xpac at the latest. D2C also had a pretty crap item pool that Lod really exploded until OP runewords took over 

  40. The whole itemization in this game is just shit. I think it might actually be worse then Torchlight’s.
    Just one of the myriad of HUGE design flaws in this game is that pretty much everything depends on weapon damage or DPS, which means that there are 3, maybe 4, useful stats a weapon can have.
    I can’t believe a supposedly professional game company that once made maybe the greatest ARPG of all time, can create an itemization that is this depressingly amateurish. It’s amazing to think they worked on this game for so long yet can’t even get the most simple things right.

  41. NVM, someone else had already pointed out…

  42. Legendaries in this state are destined to end up being desired only by Noobs with big wallets. Big names, flashy graphics, lore texts, but in the end worse then a Rare with good stats. Just think about it, a random joe shmoe won’t be sifting through some rares, he’ll go straight for legendaries! The supposed top-tier of items, right? Creme-de-la-Creme of gear!
     
    /tinfoilhaton
    Smart move by Blizzard – make them crap so good players who got them will seel for boatloads to bad players. Ka-ching!
    /tinfoilhatoff

  43. this legendary min dmg is a blue his max dmg (well almost)

  44. Maybe they just need to add the same variability to these legendary items? I mean, wider damage range. random additional bonuses… So people would hunt for their unique look. And better stats.

  45. way to miss the point about the itemization and even making an article of it gj

  46. If that azurewrath spawned with two sockets, I’ll be really happy. >:D

    In other things though, I wish they would allow two different elemental damages spawn in an item (though each are weaker and considered as 1 affix), and stack two same elemental affixes in the item. I also wish that they will allow any type of +damage in other gear as well, also weaker.

    The rare affixes should have a much weaker and more common versions, since it’s really really boring seeing the same affixes in items I find again and again. It also can’t harm to have weaker versions of the resource affixes and spread them all to the other gear. The most powerful of those should still be reserved to the class items.

    They should add hit-skill affixes too, like charged bolt (not shock pulse) when hit. It would be like: 5% chance to cast 1-15 damage Charge bolt when hit… or something in those lines. It doesn’t have to be another class’ skill, heck they could bring back the older skills from d2 and use them as hit-skill items. Another would be nova, or fire bolts when striking. 

  47. i love how everyone is ignoring the + 2 random magic properties at the end.

  48. I just have to say that bc I have not yet found a legendary item that there is no reason for them to be as uncommon as they are IF they are going to be statistically deficient (in any meaningful way) when compared to a random blue. I don’t have beef with perfect rares, but uniques were part of what made D2 so fun–they were so exciting to see drop (and they weren’t nearly as hard to acquire as D3 legendaries). Now, I’m lvl 48 and have this incredible desire to find one, only to find out that it won’t even be worth the effort it took to acquire. Imagine if that were the case in WoW–how many people would flip their shit after raiding when somebody else killed murloc and it dropped a green that was better than all their hard earned gear. For those of you who played D2 you have to admit that finding uniques was a thrill . . . it was a thrill because they were exceptional. They were rare for a reason.

  49. There is no itemization in this game. There are no affixes. Everything is just a stat stick. How dull. No skills on items, barely any meaningful mods outside of horribly low life steal and regen. What’s even sadder is the number of players who can’t figure this out yet. I finished running around normal as a Wizard with 7k HP because I have Vitality on every item except my crappy +3-6 damage blue amulet bought from a vendor. When playing multiplayer I always get these 1-3k HP dudes partying with me and they melt like butter while doing crap damage. I like when I get the monks that have +regen on them though, it makes them almost as good as having my Templar…

  50. I can testify to this. That was exactly what i was thinking today. Currently, in the auction house, the best 2h sword is The Grandfather. However, there are loads of rare 2h swords which outdamage the grandfather by a very big margin. There is mere novelty is having legendaries, but easily outclassed.

  51. Nobody ever play a game called d2?   Blues labeled with cruel we’re really good to have, also it’s not even been a week…..how can anyone accurately judge the item pool at this point?

  52. So does nobody here have any faith in the fact that this is an online game….and there are these neat things that have been around since battle.net started many many many years ago called patches.

    Blizzard has spent a great deal of the thier time reminding us that Diablo 3 is a game about loot and items. It’s a huge part of the appeal, it’s what makes the end game interesting in the first place.  Blizzard knows that with a shitty item pool, broken affixes, etc.  The game will have no staying power.  So do you really think Blizz did all this work just to slap the release out and then never adjust it?   If the itemazation ends up boring and broken, it will get adjustments and  balances.  We would be crazy to think it won’t.  Let’s let the item pool build up, see what some inferno drops really bring to light, and then start judging the results.  If it really ends up super busted (and in fairness, there are a lot of signs pointing towards the item system needing a lot of work), the we should fully expect Blizzard to work on it.

    TL:DR.  Game is 5 days old guys, Blizz has been working nonstop for who knows how long now.  Let’s at least give them a CHANCE to make adjustments and fix the problems that arise eh?  If they fail, the game will fail, and then we’ll all really have something to complain about. 

    • What do you think motivates Bliz to make changes and fix things in patches? Throwing darts blindfolded?

      No, what motivates them is when fans have strong opinions about something, and back those up with evidence and argument. It’s a truism that the class that gets complained about the most gets buffed first, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. After all, the reason it’s getting complained about is because it needs to be buffed!

      • Well, in theory, with the RMAH, they should have a TON of motivation to keep items extremely interesting.   That is, IF they were indeed including an RMAH out of greed.   From a business stand point, they’d be crazy stupid not to keep this stuff interesting.   Via patches that fix stuff or patches that bring in new items, affixes, etc.   

        Given time, we’ll see just how motivated they are to keep the RMAH money rolling in.   

      • I don’t disagree Flux, obviously if no one says there’s a problem, how does one know it exits?  However the problem is a lot of the complaints are “BLIZZ U SUX, UNIQUES ARE BAD, BAAWWW” instead of the constructive criticism that actually gets shit done.  I also think it’s maybe too early to be positive how end game itemization works.  We haven’t seen what sorts of possibilities can roll on the random affixes for uniques.  Is it likely to make up the gap?  Probably not, but balance changes usually need more than kneejerk reactions from a week of play to actually be effective.

        I’d never encourage someone to not speak up on what seem like potentially broken or ugly game flaws.  But the vast majority of complaints are overblown, poorly written troll lobs onto every forum in sight.  A little perspective would go a long way as we both watch (and hopefully contribute) to shaping D3 into the long term game we all hope it will be. 

  53. {caution: might prove to be rambling]
     
    One VERY important thing to remember is that the first two Diablo games were crafted by Blizzard NORTH, an adjunct group that is no longer part of Blizzard proper (Starcraft, in contrast, seems to have been part and parcel of the core Blizzard, so they were probably more attuned to its aspects of old for the sequel). So this game has a VERY different staff working on it. And I wouldn’t be surprised if when development actually began (what, you thought they’d necessarily be planning D3 the femtosecond LoD was published?), they’d necessarily be steeped in WoW precepts since that had been Blizzard’s main focus for quite some time. Annoying bit is, even WoW legendaries and epics, at least up to Burning Crusade, had qualities beyond stat amplification (e.g. one Karazhan axe could be activated for a missile attack). Except for the set armor pieces’ set bonuses, you’re not so likely to find such arcane qualities outside of trinkets. Just +stats, +haste, +critical chance, etc. I can’t shake the feeling this was mostly to make min/maxing easier on people. And THAT was perhaps in part a reaction to the kind of nettles raids and instances could cause if someone was even SLIGHTLY below the expected DpS/mitigation/HpS/etc. gradients.
     
    Thing is…D2 seemingly has had a LONG tradition of min/maxing itself, usually in the form of maximizing vitality, minimizing energy, and only getting enough strength and/or dexterity for ideal weaponry and armor. Never mind that I’m not sure aiming for specific unique gear stays true to roguelike precepts…Of course, that depends on how many people think of Diablo as a roguelike to begin with, akin not just to other real-time roguelikes like Titan Quest and Grim Dawn (if the latter’s beta has begun, anyway), but also turn-based roguelikes such as NetHack, Angband, most of ChunSoft’s output, Ancient Domains of Mystery, and Tales of Maj’Eyal.
     
    But back to min/maxing…while the fixed stat growth was a sign that Blizzard was trying to deflect that mentality, I have to wonder if they were unwittingly steeped in it themselves (whether on account of D2 influence or WoW influence is probably open to debate). ESPECIALLY with the primary stat situation. I can’t shake the feeling that we’re in the ill-scaling problem with D2 again, the sort that made Vitality the One Stat to Rule Them All. Must be the whole “all about the loot” scenario (which I’m not convinced was always the case, even with NetHack, Moria, and/or Angband). When you’re expecting the equipment and skills to be the main thing to carry you through, I can see how non-primary stats might be seen as NEEDING tempering. Of course, all this comes from someone with a rather defensive cast of mind (i.e. I don’t think trying for one-shotting foes is worthwhile, compared to being able to survive if you don’t dodge an attack correctly. Might be more applicable for turn-based roguelikes than real-time, though. Not to mention I *prefer* Jacks-of-All-Stats. All the power in the world doesn’t help if you’re easily outflanked…). But then again, I’m under the impression that part of the appeal of roguelikes is supposed to be intricacy–not something I see as readily coexisting with min/maxing. And no, I don’t think the greater numbers of casuals are incapable of intricacy. If the casuals themselves think that, they’re more than likely selling themselves short (never mind that I’d like to know what they think they have to lose by trying to attain towards intricacy).
     
    Granted that perfect mixture of rare/legendary/rune/crafted isn’t about to be found in D2 without modcraft, not with how low-wattage crafted items typically were. (I’m sure we could be regaled about how Blizzard North’s sense of balance was flawed…) But if the viable affix constriction we’re hearing about is anything to go by…How DID power come to be THIS heavily favored over thoughtfulness, cunning, caution, and versatility?
     
     
     

    • Knew I forgot a few elements…
      –That Blizzard missed this problematic item quality divide is easily explained (easily in part, anyway) by the beta being narrowed to Act I Normal. I have a hunch that legendaries are even more rare, if not nonexistent, at that point of the progression. Good luck fine-tuning something you can’t get feedback on…although I *do* wonder how much internal testing Blizzard was doing by themselves on later points of the game, where you’d EXPECT them to see the more problematic aspects of item quality divide.
      –My point about the disappearing non-stat aspects of weapons and non-set armor in WoW after Burning Crusade may have parallels with the disappearance of D2’s skill trees. WoW started with skill trees, mind. But with Cataclysm, the trees became compressed, with not so many options. Then, in Mists of Pandaren…WHAT skill trees? Given the parallels with WoW and Diablo, my view is that Blizzard has simply LOST FAITH in skill trees being good for customizability. Unfortunately, this seems to have done nothing to abolish the min/maxing mentality (are we primarily here to emulate saving the world, or to emulate being a demigod of war? I was under the impression the former was the correct answer…).
      –A bit of a minor thing in comparison, but…Am I the only one a bit saddened by the practical departure of the humble but dependable basic attack option? Granted that resource-generating and non-resource skills arguably supplant it in all ways (although the Witch Doctor doesn’t seem to have anything that doesn’t need mana), but it does crimp the possibility of unusual setups (q.v. Ranger-Paladins and Hunter/Huntermentalist-Druids in D2. Since they relied on bows, that meant they were CONSTANTLY using the basic attack). With regard to the main topic of Blizzard’s mentality on what is proper balancing, though, I’m worried that there’s too much emphasis on spectacle and raw power (me in D2? Suffice to say that I did not like the idea of downing potions on a regular basis. They’re supposed to be an emergency measure, not a major weapon…), if you’re anticipated to use something flashy on a constant basis.
       

  54. Note: Previous comment was me, not realizing the post wouldn’t auto-classify with my profile (and forgetting which Greek letter I was using as the suffix here). Mostly important to a certain poster I apparently managed to get aligned with Tales of Maj’Eyal, probably…
     

  55. Notice that the complainer is comparing an item from in the game with a hypothetical sword from outside the game?  The DPS of the blue is being modified heavily by the character holding it, while the Azurewrath is in it’s pure form.  Put the Azurewath on the same character as you have the blue and we’ll see which is better.

  56. The items that are the hardest to fine are worthless, maybe they should make legendary items more “legendary”. 

  57. kinda fun to read comments from guys who are not even inferno…

    • I’m in inferno and every legendary so far has been garbage.  I use a blue 1h with 582 dmg high int and high vit.  The itemization in the game is garbage at the moment. 

  58. I had a feeling that itemization in this game was in trouble when in an interview, Jay Wilson’s fat ass talks about a ‘+exp’ mod being cool and useful.

    • I curse every time I see that worthless mod on an item.  +Exp, who gives a crap.  Level cap is 60 and the game is designed so that everyone will get there. This isn’t D2 with an (for the most part) unattainable 99 level cap.

  59. Ok, my two cents on this: Me and my friends, well 5 people total, went through Normal, Nightmare and two of us went through Hell. So far a total of 3 legendaries have been spotted total for all 5 of us. This is incredibly stupid since there is a ton of lower level legendaries and sets and they just remain like out of the game for us. I don’t care if they exist since they are untainable. Can you imagine how unrewarding is to pass Normal, Nightmare and Hell and to have not a single unique? And Blizzard dare to tell me that this is ok? Who’s playing stupid here? I remember playing D2, I had at least one unique on every Act in Normal and sometimes more on the other difficulties. And it just felt well, right and justified. The thing is, Blizzard doesn’t seem concerned with this and I don’t think they will fix it anytime soon.

    • Except that, if that legendary is worth finding (likely better than anything else you’ve got), then that’s how it should be. Finding legendary items here, there and everywhere ruins their fun and intrigue. They [i]should[/i] be exceptionally rare – and that should be traded off by them being very powerful. I’ve found one legendary so far, a belt. I found it in normal, and I’m now halfway through NM and it’s still the best belt I’ve found.
       
      And what tempers out that increased rarity is the ease with which you can swap them between characters. In D2 you could find a great unique/set, but there was a very good chance it was for a different class. They therefore needed to be a bit more common so there was a better chance of finding one that was actually useful. That’s not a problem in D3.

    • hate, you hit the nail on the head about this; I have put thousands of hours in D2 but I’m getting burnt out after about 20 hours into D3. There are several problems, but the one you mentioned is a big one. 

      There is no incentive for replay if there aren’t any cool items to look forward to finding.

      Add that to the fact that boss fights are mind-numbingly dull until you get to Inferno, and you have a game that’s meant to be re-playable, that isn’t re-playable at all.

  60. All you people whining about the epic loot need to go back to \Insert MMO here.\ In the world of Diablo, the best items are random. Always have been, except when stuff got \broken\ (Think the Ballista from Diablo 2). I HOPE They do not Fix this issue. The point of the game is to work for nicer drops, not Semi Static Legendary weapons everyone will be using. In Diablo 2, I was SOOO happy to Craft my 144 Bow, and have a cruel Warpike (300 dmg!) for my WW Barb. That’s the type of game play I am excited about with Diablo 3. Well that and Stupid Molten Vampiric, like I fought this morning. THESE Challenges, and the awesome Rare loots are what will Make Diablo 3 great.

  61. The problem isn’t really weak legendaries(which may or may not be a small problem) but the lack if interesting affixes. The most interesting uniques in D2 were tailored around stats and mods that were truly unique and rare, especially for that slot, and they also scaled with the power of the character. Like ravens, soj, dwarf star, thunder gods etc. The stats on these items often made a huge impact on how the character was played.

    D3 itemization is just bland and boring.  

  62. Now after almost 6 days of playing … I have to say that I think there is far more broken things in Diablo 3 than just the loot stats… I was not convinced 2 years ago, then when I was invited in closed Beta I was enthousiastic. After launch I thought it was the best game in recent years … and now … I see MANY glitches. 1. The mechanics don’t work any longer in this age. People have been spoiled by MMo’s and D3 is not up to the task of fulfilling its role to become a long time played game. Stop pretending and no longer use the word \because it is Diablo …\. Sorry but redoing the exact same quest lines for 4 times in a row but only with different stats and added abilities is no longer working for me and I guess for a LOT of people. While I think the world is cleverly designed, ALL content should be unique to each Act. Perhaps 2 times repeat but certainly not … 4 times repeat. Ok so the dungeons have a little change in the lay out and the mobs change some 20 % in abilities but hey guys …. this is NO longer 2000. 2. THE AH kills the loot chase. Already everyone is complaining that simply buying things on the AH is making the content looking trivial in the first 2 difficulyy levels. As EVERYONE is playing on ONE AH per region you can buy the greatest rare gear at 2K Gold. So as even the boss fights don’t srop any meaningful gear , why bother…. 3. If this continues the ONLY thing that will sell on the RMAH is gold; probably at aorund 3 EU/US for 200.000 gold or something. That’s 3 days playing for 2 Euro net. Even the rarest gear will only sell for the minimum 1.25 or even much less for Gold coins. 4. Diablo 3 gives me this feeling of being TOO old in design and this already after just playing it for 5 days in retail (while the beta gave me hope for better things to come). And I have the impression the game was STILL underdevelopped in the GEAR department, the AH mechanics and clearly the server support. I make it very clear: The graphics in Diablo are TOP NOTCH. The design of the figths etc is TOP NOTCH and can rival even the top dungeon/raid designs of WOW… but the final TOUCH isn’t there. Who to blame ? I don’t know but the fact EVRYTHING changed in Beta in the last 8 months showed someone messed up in the curcual departments … and that would be Itemisation, Economy and the AH. Add the HUGE problems with the server stability and I think DIablo clearly is not worth an 8 on the rating system. Blizzard is going to have serious trouble in the coming months because I don’t see this D3 a long term played game by the MASSES. PVP could even become too late and it could well be the game will have a rather niche market of some 100K players per region. It could be the beginning of the end of the Blizzard empire because ALL depends now on WOW and its new expansion to keep those 10M players \income by subs\ up. If that game goes to 6 M or less subscriptions, Blizzard HQ will need to cut a LOT of jobs and it could be catastrophic for us Blizzard fans… Bobby Kotick would take over and it would be the end of Blizz as we know it. I have HUGE doubts for Diablo ATM Diablo 3 is NOT living up to my expectations and this already after just 5 days… I don’t think either the AH is a good system for a hack/slash dungeon crawler because it is simply TOO focused on the gear chase and nothing else. Let’s hope Jeff Kaplan and Rob Pardo can come up with something better in Titan or Blizzard could loose its independant status within the Activision group VERY quickly.

  63. The problem i see here is this:

    Take that sword with 740 dps its a CONQUEST SWORD (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/conquest-sword)
    Azurewrath (http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7303/screenshot016hp.jpg)

    Now see the BASE DAMAGE of the conquest 90-93 , 210-216  now 327-652 minus 147-440 = 90-212 OKAY
    now see the BASE DAMAGE of azurewrath 122-126 , 286-294 now 254-566 minus 130-266 = 124-290 divided by 1,38 = 89 – 210
    so the problem is the BASE damage of the legendary weapons.. they are not like a “Unique conquest sword” or “Unique Colossus blade”  89 min damage is equivalent to a lvl 47 item and 210 max is the conquest sword .. its all messed up..
    not to talk about the “sever” legendary sword.. almost worse than my currently blue..
     

  64. Items is broke. Affixs are plain Jane and legendarys are legendary mediocre. Fix kthxbye

  65. Thrall: i’ll own that i don’t consider it really proper for loot hunting to be integral to a roguelike. Your equipment is SUPPOSED to be randomized. Then again, I don’t think the Diablo series has ever had anything like Angband and Tales of Maj’Eyal’s greater vaults (lots of high-grade equipment with at least one or two uniques on average…if you can put up with all the equally high-grade goons, probably including unique mini-bosses, in there), or the Monster Houses in ChunSoft’s licensed Fushigi no Dungeon roguelikes. The conceit of it being “all about the loot”…{sigh] No game should be “all about” one specific thing. Although what was mentioned about everything changing about eight months ago…Do we know anything about staff changes at that general time? If we can find out the design history of new entrants and their general gaming philosophy, we might be able to understand what’s going on. (Me? I’m guessing the philosophy changed to reliance on super-powerful skills, and not quite so much on knowing what skills to use when…)
     
    In fact…How much of the core Blizzard retinue–not Blizzard North, Blizzard basic–of 2000 was still around for 2008-2012? Maybe that could shed some light on the situation…

    EDIT: Wait a minute…I was under the impression that part of the rationale for the Auction House, or at least its real-money version, was to thwart the market for item duplication. But, if the items are all on the core servers, I don’t see much of a way for anyone TO duplicate them! Someone fumbled their logic check…That, and I guess present-day Blizzard somehow decided that the market for duplicated gigas-level rares was somehow legitimate, if not in mechanism, then at least in the purchasers’ motives…Do I even want to know their opinion of freeware roguelike itemization?

    In fact, speaking of freeware roguelike itemization, I’m remembering a couple of egos (the game’s term for affixes) that Tales of Maj’Eyal recently added in. Don’t be too proud to adapt ideas from freeware games, Blizzard! Blizzard North certainly wasn’t…

    ARCING: The weapon has a built-in lightning brand. Any attack has a chance to make the lightning arc to and harm another creature. (Even if the rather silly power level of resource-generating attacks like Cleave and Electrocute render this specific kind of quality redundant)
    CAUSTIC: The weapon has a built-in acid brand. On a critical hit, the weapon attempts to blind the victim. (This one REALLY looks like something to emulate for new affixes–special effect on a critical beyond just extra damage and whatever your current skills include.

    Although…I’m starting to think that the affixes were made bland ON PURPOSE, in order to make players less reticent about upgrading to a new piece of equipment (i.e. don’t make them feel unduly confused/frustrated about whether to pick the higher AC/higher DpS object or the lower AC/lower DpS that applies some sort of Status Hell on targets). Remember, all about the loot? Maybe more all about constant upgrading…

  66. I totally agree with so many posters on here, the item game is in brutal need of some huge overhauls. I wanted “Oh this one adds more damage to my ray of frost, cold damage, plus chance for frost nova proc” not “more int, more vit” whoopie. The magefist I found hardly even seem like caster gloves.

  67. this is diabloe, not WOW, most of the uniques in D2 were vendor craps too

  68. That blue may have better base damage numbers but that legendary has way more affixes on it which make it more valueable in my opinion. I still think that legendaries should be the outright best though! It has always been that way.

  69. steveman0 has it exactly right. The biggest problem is the mmo-style item mods. It’s over-simplified. WOW itemization is boring as hell, except for the occasional trinket.
    Things would actually be a little better without an AH, since it wouldn’t be so easy to find killer items for your level. As it stands at lower-mid levels there is no reason to craft, and no reason to cube lower gems. Better off vendoring everything and heading to the AH.

  70. Best items were runeword items in D2…which was great. if you want the best gear put some effort into it. So in D3 the crafted items must be the best, not the legendary, not even set. Which they are.
    Thank you. 

  71. It was entirely possible in D2 to get rares that were better than some of the best uniques, it’s just really hard to do. However, many uniques had unique stats, like 20 Lighning Absorb on Tgods and such, that made them hard to resist in certain situations. You were not going to get 100 MF on a rare, but a simple unique dagger could make any character a legitimate MFer in D2.
    In D3 if that Azurewrath spawns with life steal or bonus damage it will trump that magic sword. I do think that certain magic affixes in D2 could land you an armor that was better than most of the elite uniques. Runewords kind of messed everything up because with all the rune duping everyone had Enigma or whatever, but on my Zons Stone or Duress was the most common armor, way better than the uniques.
    I don’t think people should be surprised by this.

    I will also say this; Azurewrath was much better looking in D2.

  72. Best sword for my wolf druid was a good ole’ cruel mythic sword of quickness.  Magical, not rare, not unique.  Sorry guys, welcome to diablo – where the best stuff is random – like it should be.  Hopefully they add the ability to make your non-uniques “unique” by sticking your name on it like they eventually did in D2.  Liking it so far, wouldn’t mind some more item mods in the future though (like chance to cast mods).

    • I think the point is that the sky-high-level magic weapons are popping up at a rate MUCH higher than you’d expect. The online-only may actually exacerbate this. If the only playing points possible are connected to the auction house…Well, you don’t have much to lose by putting the branded, high-speed blade your demon hunter found on the auction house, do you? (This applies whether it’s the cash or the gold auction house) In other words, unlike single-player and non-Bnet multi-player, where a high-grade but off-class armament was ultimately only good for selling or the Cube, you can get even more gold than usual by auctioning it. Given all the demon hunters finding swords and bludgeons, all the barbarians finding crossbows, etc., it’s probably not going to be hard to find a full complement for every level of such gigas-magics at any given time. Basically, the problem is that the legendaries are at risk of getting crowded out by the gigas-magics.
       

  73. You also have to remember that they can’t make alot of money if only legendary items are the best. So what they did was make all the items viable, legendary or not so that people can sell everything instead of just legendaries to make money. It is all about the RMAH.

  74. How does the + cold and other elemental damage work out with elemental skills? Does it still factor in? Will my wizard be using that full 700 dps with disintegrate, all as arcane? Is the damage divided between physical and poison only when it comes to barbarian / monk / dh  skills and wizards Spectral Blade ?

  75. i dunno why skills getting benefit from all those element dmg stat,
    just change back all those +element dmg back to only work “on hit”,
    legendaries and set provde more +dmg%,
    problem solved

  76. This entire discussion is so effing sophomoric…. I have a Split Tusk that owns every other level 10 BECAUSE OF THE RANDOM AFFIXES.  Sizeable boost to intellect and resource.  Can’t even remember the 3rd affix right now.

    Funny how most of you haven’t found a damn legendary yet but you are going to lecture people on how the game sucks.

  77. What is seriously broken is the unlimited supply vendor items. That needs fixing in short order, the AH get’s flooded with identical items. (with good reason for the seller, they are re-selling vendor items for 10x the price). Seems pretty broken to me.

  78. I agree that the item system is busted. Even more, I’m tired of people saying you can’t compare to D2x. After 10 years I expect an improvement over D2 in it’s entirety, not just vanilla D2.

  79. in d2 you would find blues that where even fun, things like knockback and life leech or stun chance chance for frost nova, chance to freeze when hit. they made you feel like even that blue item was unique and you would notice it if you changed it because those affects would dissaper. this made it much more fun to find items and look at them.
    i cycle thru items in my inventory in d3 looking for hi stats vit, str, dex, int. if they dont have them you sell all to vendor..   boring..
    even finding a white item in d2 with 4-6 sockets was awsome and fun, coz u have more stuff to put in them,  like 6 gems? skull, and all the jewels, runes..
    a socket used to mean you could; enhance damage%, life leach, mana leech,do fire,cold,poison, lightningdmg. knockback plus like 30 other things… 
    now all you can do is add more vit or primary attribute… 
    i thought in d3 you would be able to hold onto the same weapon if you wanted to, and keep upgrading and enchanting it adding sockets and stuff. would be more fun. every item seems worthless and unexiting at the moment.

     

  80. Maybe we should have taken as a sign that announcement months ago that ALL the classes were DpS-oriented–terminology that basically started with MMOs? (I have a hunch I’m about to get refuted…) Some could say that MMOs are “all about the loot” (at least with the squabbling you can sometimes see over set armor tokens) if you have no use for role-playing, and with the span between LoD’s publication and the decision to commence on D3, I wonder how blurred Blizzard’s understanding of the distinctions between MMOs and ARPGs became. {wonders how many of Blizzard’s employees routinely play freeware roguelikes in the vein of ADOM, Angband, etc.]
    In the good news, there ARE some unusual and interesting affixes. +Skill affixes do exist (not outside-the-class skills, though), as do affixes that add a chance of stun/knockback/terrify/etc. Still going to be a passed over so long as weapon damage remains the One Skill to Rule Them All, though (especially with many skills, at least when runed, supplying innate crowd control effects, and the affixes never supplying much more than a 5% per strike chance).
     

  81. I think the solution to this problem is pretty simple. They should increase the maximum damage affixes on the top legendaries to be within the 90-110% range of the top damage affixes for magics and rares. They may want to increase the minimum as well, but most important is that legendaries have the POTENTIAL to be as good as rares.

  82. While taking a look through the typical magic/rare affixes at the Arreat Summit, I noticed that most of them are of your typical +damage/defense/resistance variety, or are leeches, triumphant, magic find, etc.–basically, much the same as the affixes in D3. Only really glaring omission that I remember is Vulpine (taking damage restores mana), and the reason is something I’m about to get to. Add in the somewhat oblique form of +skill D3 has, and the only TRULY noticeable lack appears to be granting off-class skills, whether by a striking/being struck procession, or gifting the skill outright, whether by +1 or by charges. I have a hunch this is what was referred to by affixes that could change your strategy outright.
    Then comes the epiphany. Remember how every class has its own unique form of skill energy? Well, how are you going to USE the off-class skill if it requires an energy you don’t have?! Main example coming to mind is the Chaos runeword in D2X. It could only be used on claws–meaning it was Assassin-only–and granted a passive +1 to Whirlwind. Suffice to say that Chaos was considered crucial for a rather popular Assassin build. Now, in D2, the Barbarian and Assassin both used mana. However, in D3, the Barbarian uses rage, and the Monk (the resident claw-user) uses spirit. The two resources don’t behave in quite the same fashion, whether or not they can be said to scale with each other in something resembling 1:1. Also, D3 apparently needs to have different affixes for EACH energy type. One for rage, one for hatred, one for discipline, one for spirit, one for mana, one for arcane power. So it appears the coding considers the energy types to be completely alien to each other. That’s also why there’s no sign of Vulpine–it apparently can’t work for everyone. (Never mind what it’s supposed to do with the Demon Hunter’s two energies. Restore half the percentage to each? But the question becomes how they scale to each other…)
    In short, off-class skills, whether by granting or item charges, may be impossible simply because of the fact that the classes don’t share energy types. Which, at least by D2X lights, constricts the affixes to the standard, somewhat boring numbers increase.
     

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