DiArmory Reveals…. Dupes?

Site reader Javazon points us to this interesting thread on B.net that links to numerous player profiles from the Asian realm, all of them Wizards, all of them using a fantastically-good off-hand Orb with the exact same name and stats. It seems like sure evidence of duping (or else a major error in the game’s random name/stat generation engine), and you can view the identical item equipped in the character profiles below:

You'll see a lot of these around.
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/liemjunhao-6339/hero/18254046
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/leej88-1875/hero/14708745
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/insanity-1884/hero/11671090
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/mosesyr-1925/hero/8430
  • https://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Faetal-1219/hero/22731568
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/passermeaw-6696/hero/4952195
  • So, assuming it’s duping… what now?

    In Diablo II the answer was easy; nothing, since the game wasn’t really moderated or supported past 2001 once everyone at Blizzard North moved on to work on Diablo III (or the other mysterious, never-completed or revealed BN project), or once Blizzard North dissolved in 2005. That’s not entirely fair, since there were a few “rust storms” when some dupes would be deleted, but the Diablo II client-server model didn’t allow for complete security, and such things were inevitable. On the rare occasions the Bliz mods struck back, everything and anything could be deleted since the characters were on Blizzard’s server, items had no official value, and the ladders were always just a few months from resetting anyway, so no one really cared.

    All of those factors are very different in Diablo III. We were promised a secure gaming environment in exchange for no offline or single player mode, and we were promised active server security and a viable, persistent economy. Duping is a blade pointed at the heart of that economy and those promises, so it must be stopped… and yet how does Blizzard decide who to punish?

    If they’ve got the diagnostic tools to see one player creating multiple copies of this item, surely they could ban that account and delete any items still on it. But what if he’s been selling them? For Gold or worse, for Real Money? What does Blizzard do then?

    Imagine you got on the AH, saw a great item, and bought it. Then a week later, Battle.net security figures that item was a dupe. What now? If they delete your item, you’re being punished for a crime you didn’t knowing commit and couldn’t have avoided. You didn’t buy the item through some janky third party site; you bought it with the official Diablo III Auction House, which is supposed to be secure and safe. If you paid gold for it, Blizzard could theoretically just reimburse your account whatever you paid, since gold is a virtual item they can create in infinite amounts. But if you paid real money for it, the duper has no doubt vanished that money already into his PayPal account. Is Blizzard supposed to refund you your purchase out of their pocket? (Bobby says no.)

    It’s an interesting legal conundrum, one created entirely by the online-only DRM and the supposedly secure Battle.net Diablo III economy. D3’s system makes things safe and secure and viable, but that same security makes it more vulnerable once it’s broken, since Blizzard is less able to react without causing harm to everyone involved.

    Update: Lots of comments from people who have found or made one dupe (giving them 2 copies) by accident. I’ve done that myself, after a normal play session I was unloading in town and was surprised to see that I had 2 rare belts with identical name and stats. The item wasn’t any good, but this sort of thing happens all the time. But five or six of the same item isn’t an accident.

    Others point out that items can be duped by claiming your account was hacked. Blizzard will rollback your characters to an earlier, saved restore point, and cheating players can offload their gear, file a support ticket, and get rolled back to restore their gear. This can only be done once per account, but theoretically if multiple people did it, the same super quality item could be duped repeatedly.

    Related to this article
  • The Great Gold Fiasco: Hoax
  • RMAH and Cheating in Diablo 3: Bans Soon
  • Asian Diablo 3 Realm: Massive Rollback to Remove Dupes

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    68 thoughts on “DiArmory Reveals…. Dupes?

      • Most likely the Profiles aren’t up to date and the item changed hands a few times.

        I won’t believe a dupe until I see a stream of someone having 2 same items in their inventory.

        The multiples on the AH are, as far as I’m concerned, a display glitch. It happened before.

        • nothing new ; i have seen multiple items with exactly the same stats name price and remaining time on them on streams and screenshots ; and i dont mean magic weapons by that …

        • Alex, if you don’t believe duping is happening, I’d be more than happy to show you two of the exact same items in my inventory right now. I don’t know what caused it, but I crafted two identical lvl 62 wiz hats. Same name, same stats, same everything.

          My case happened on accident, and I didn’t think much about it. If you don’t think there are tons of people actively doing this, who figured out what triggers the duplication, that’s a bit naive.

          • Interesting. I’m still not sure if this something that can be exploited, or only happens on accident due to a server glitch.

            I think it’d be alot more massive if actually exploited.

          • I too have duped items by accident. And they were not crafted. Somehow in the shuffle of dropping a pretty good rare and picking it up and moving it in my inventory, a second one was created. I sold one of them for a nice little profit.

            If I could “duplicate” the process, I would. :p I miss the first Diablo when everyone cheated a little bit and the fun was avoiding and trying to surprise-kill the more egregious cheaters.

        • dupes exist,
          i have 2 staffs same name and stats.
          i actually found them myself. Happened in akt 2 in the open.
          I remembered to pick that Staff (lvl 62) and later upon revisiting that area (yes i died) i found that that at the exact location.
          No tricks on my part really. It was just there twice.

          And although i shouldnt feel the need to proof anything to that fat cat i somehow do πŸ™‚
          so here ya go fresh screenshot:
          dunno if i can post links here.

          • this was a glitch causing the same item to drop twice (in a row) 2 rares in a row to be identical. I believe it was fixed in 1.0.3. Some people really are lost with changes that go on with the game, its quite sad. I think it was fixed ;p cus i know it was talked about by blizzard.. :mrgreen:

        • Sad blind fanboy in denial^^

          Faetal logged off without wearing gear so people don’t spot him anymore, but not before others took screenshots of his also duped rings.


          And these items are currently available on the AH.

          One month old duped bow x6. There were originally 8 but 2 people from this thread bought one each: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6079712152?page=1


          Duped gloves x2

        • @AlexanderBarin – I have to disagree with this, only because of the following: If the item switched hands multiple times before or after the Profiles have updated, it would still only ever show the current owner of the item. If it was before the update, then the item would still be showing in the original owner’s inventory only. If it was after the update, it would only show in the new owner’s inventory. As far as I know, the Character Profiles only update once or so a day, and the only way for it to show up in more than one person’s inventory would be if more than one person had it. However, if the Profiles updated whenever a character or player logged out, then it would be entirely possible to confuse the servers by trading the item to another player and remaining logged in, the new owner logs out which would save it in their Profile, then they log back in again and trade it to someone else, and repeat.

          To the other people saying “duping is real, I’ve found 2 of the exact same item”: that’s not what is commonly referred to as “duping.” I mean, yes, you did find duplicates of an item, but “duping” as typically used when referring to “loot drop games” is the intentional and controlled duplication of an item. What happened to you guys (and myself, actually,) is a known “issue” that can happen during loot drops. I believe the explanation I read was something to the effect of “there is a slight, unnoticable delay in communication between your computer and the server during the loot drop, causing the same item to be dropped twice.” I can still remember it happening: it was in a crypt in Act 1, and after I killed a skeleton, I saw two swords drop one after the other, in the exact same spot with the exact same drop animation, just with a very very small delay between them. They ended up having the same name, same stats, etc., but that’s the only time I’ve ever had it happen to me personally.

          @Capt Goodman – When you crafted 2 of the exact same item, were they crafted one right after the other? I’m just curious; I don’t have any explanations or theories for what happened in your case. Lol πŸ™‚ I will say though, that I have a really hard time believing that it’s something that could/can be manipulated, or at the very least that anyone knows how to do it. I’m not saying that it’s impossible; hell, it’s happened in every “loot drop game” I’ve ever played. Ever. I’m just saying that, knowing human nature, and knowing the vast history of duping, I find it very hard to believe that someone has found a way to dupe items in Diablo 3 and it hasn’t become common knowledge yet. Again, it’s totally possible, and there could be a few people laughing their way to the bank right now, but I just don’t think it’s happening. Maybe I just want to believe it’s not happening so that the game isn’t further ruined for me, and that’s preventing me from being able to see the truth, but I don’t think so. At the very least, I really, really, REALLY hope not.

          • The items were crafted in a series, 1 of the dupes, followed by a random craft, then the other dupe. I personally wouldn’t be shocked if there were a handful (100 or so) people who know how to do it consistently (think lag switch or something of that nature, probably more complex). Just because it isn’t common knowledge right now, doesn’t mean that some smart individuals aren’t making lots of cash off of this strategy, and like the OP says, it will be an interesting enforcement situation when it comes to light. I mean, the only reason we find out about stuff like the invuln wiz’s, and such is because the people using and abusing them eventually get tired of it, and report it to Blizz.

            • Wow, so your dupes were crafted with an additional item crafted in-between them? That’s pretty crazy, and kind of changes what i think about the possibility of it happening. I mean, if they were one after the other, I could see that just being some odd glitch/delay/bug/whatever. But to have an item crafted in-between them…. That’s an awfully long period of time to work with. πŸ™

    1. Just say’n but I’ve seen numerous different items with exactly the same stats in the us auction house. Plus I’ve had 2 identicle items drop in a single session.

      • Pages of identical items in the AH are usually from NPC vendors.

        Lvl 63 magic items with good stats can be bought in later inferno, and when you buy it, it doesn’t disappear from the vendor’s inventory, you can buy as many as you want.

    2. I had 2 exact lvl 57 rare rings drop about 20 second within eachother. Seems a bit bugged. Has only happened once thou

      • I too am another one that has had identical rares drop in the same game. Same name, stats, item quality, etc. It was w/in like 2 mins of each other, so I agree w/ others thinking it could be a bug.

    3. I can see get 2 duplicates dropping at the exact same moment. That has been reported numerous times. But to see 5+ of the same item?

      Evidence of duping has been seen on the AH in the past but with the new profiles it is obvious there has been a problem. I would imagine since you don’t see 100s of an item that the duping is fixed relatively quickly or maybe it is actually difficult and time-consuming to do.

      Edit: Or the few that know how to dupe don’t over abuse it?

      • I’ve found duplicate rares once, so I can believe seeing two since I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Three, four, and even FIVE OF THE SAME ITEM? OK, something is going on here.

        I’m not up to speed on whether profiles pull directly from your live character or update every so often, but I’d wager it’s a direct pull since the overhead of storing character and item data is popularly assumed to be prohibitively expensive.

        Also, with the massive duping rumors in Asian realms (wasn’t there a ban wave too?), I can buy that these items could very well be duped.

        My two cents.

        • Cough we dont know the true odds of that combo of mods dropping nor the number of items named Arcanum Mind that have dropped. Heres some basic math for you if that combo of mods makes up 10% of Arcanum Minds then on average you get one 50% of the time in every 7 drops so to get 5 copies you only need ~70 Arcane minds on average and if its 1% drop chance its 50% chance of one in 69 drops that 690 drops to get 5 copies on average. For 0.1% chance its 50% chance of one in every 693 dropped or you can expect 5 in every 6930 dropped etc etc.

          • If Diablo 3’s item drop system works anything like Diablo 2’s (which they’ve mentioned it does), then the chance of a collision is about as rare as winning the lottery.

            You’re not picking 1 out of 690, you’re picking specific combinations from a larger set… and that set is definitely VERY large.

            So how hard is it find a collision?

            In no particular order, first you have to win the name roll, getting both Arcanum and Mind from two sets of maybe 20 or more first names and last names. Then you’d have to roll the right ilvl, 63. Next comes the mod ilvl roll, maybe with some mod ilvls like so: 63, 63, 61, 62, 63. Finally, each mod’s numerical value would have to roll to be the EXACT number. This is the part that is JUST LIKE any lottery put on by your state government.

            Even without getting into the mathematics, and more detail, it’s easy to see rolling a third Arcanum Mind would indeed be EXTREMELY rare.

            If you’re still in doubt, Google combinations and permutations.

    4. Duping is being used for quite some time in D3, since top-lvl gems have/are been/being sold below the crafting price in th AH and RMAH.

      Time to scrap D3 item system i gess…

    5. Wasn’t there a duping issue in Asia mid June, followed by a massive database rollback? These might be remains.

    6. I`ve personaly had the same item drop twice at the same time from the same mob, but that was way back, at the beggining when servers were realy laggy.

      But to see 6 of those. And one of the guys with the same GODLY rings, and even one of the other mages had that same ring equiped too… Way too many coincidence to say its possible..

    7. could this issue be related with the AH problem in EU and blizzard not responding (security?) to it?

    8. Looks like at least one of the users caught the attention of the forum post / this article. Faetal#1219 has stripped his (I’m assuming it’s a him since he has a character named “ImAlexander”) Wizard of all of its gear, and he created a a new character all of a sudden that’s named “DONTLOOKATME.”

      Also, when I first started looking at the characters, two of them also had the same boots. Now, when I went to take screenshots, one of them has a different pair on.

      Edit – Anyways, my opinion is that these items are remnants of the duping that was done a long time ago, resulting in the server rollback. If not that, then I’m not entirely sure what, but I don’t believe that duping is still taking place today, and certainly not on the Americas servers. The reason I say this, is that I would have to believe that if duping was still a serious problem today, then when character profiles went up we would have immediately found a LOT more duped items than this, and on a much bigger scale, not to mention on multiple server regions. Now, I do understand that Character Profiles haven’t been out long, and it could just be a matter of time before we find out that there IS a problem, but I don’t believe that is the case.

      Also, the article asks what we would do / how Blizzard would handle it if we found out there was a duping problem. Well, to be honest I don’t know how they would handle it without all sorts of issues and backlash, but I can say that for the time being, I think Character Profiles have inadvertently doubled as a “dupe finder” or maybe even a “dupe deterrent,” as made obvious by this article / the original forum post. Thanks to Character Profiles and the people who randomly search through them like the thread OP, and how incredibly quickly word of such items is spread throughout the community, those users that knowingly have hacked/duped items will be at least somewhat discouraged from using them, in fear that they might be caught with the items and reported to Blizzard.

    9. I’d imagine those exorbitant auction fees (for all auctions) do, to some degree, also fund some kind of insurance system on either Blizzard’s or PayPal’s side for cases of pseudo-economy meltdowns e.g. duping. That way, the buyer would have his duped item deleted and money refunded, which, in case the seller can’t be made liable (anymore), would originate from the reserve.

      Yet still, the player who now has an open equipment slot still wouldn’t probably be too happy of this particular solution:

      Of course, paying for that kind of insurance on top of dupes existing despite having no offline-mode available, isn’t exactly win-win for the customers, … but well, Blizzard and customer communication/care isn’t an easy topic to begin with.

    10. Step 1) Put a potion, elixir, or scroll in your belt.
      Step 2) Throw item to be duped on ground, close inventory, walk away.
      Step 3) Walk back to the item, as soon as you are about to pick it up QUICKLY click an item in your belt.

      Voila, the item is now in your inventory and on the ground!

      • Hilarious! πŸ˜€

        The timing, gosh, the timing! I was what – 13 years? – when I heard of this particular duping method and tried for 10 minutes till it worked. It was a different thing to do than clicking 60x per minute to kill monsters, that’s for sure πŸ™‚

        They never fixed that duping method, did they?

        on topic: if the rollback method really works, then *$Β§%&Β§)=($*
        Another reason for me not to use the AH.

        Has anyone tried if the profiles update instantly or only after saving or only after a certain amount of time has passed?

        • That Profile page, lets call it Armory, refreshes pretty much instantly when u LOG OFF. It has some delay depending on the time, but it refreshes only when u relog.

        • No, they never fixed it. Funnily enough, some modders came up with an exe patch to fix the problem (after Blizzard claimed it was ‘unfixable’). Blizzard declined to include it in a patch, because 3rd party tools could easily create/dupe items any way.

          It was actually an annoying bug, because it was possible to destroy your own good items and turn them into potions or scrolls or gold etc: you go to pick up a spell book dropped in the dungeon, and at the same time go to swap your sword to your +magic mace, and due to the timing you’d end up duping the book by destroying your sword!

          Incidentally mods are how Godly Plates of the Whale ended up in Diablo as well, since they can’t normally be dropped or bought in the game due to the ilvls involved. Same with other unfindable items like Weird Bow of Burning on a LWB etc. A modded game that allows them to drop can be created, and the item found in that game, then copied over to normal Diablo and the item will remain – simply creating the item directly via a trainer doesn’t work. Incidentally that is why the GPOWs that were around very seldom had perfect stats – because you had to rely on the RNG in a modded game to drop the item to begin with and that was still uncommon (changing the modded version too much would prevent the items from being stable when imported back to normal Diablo). I used this technique myself to cheat in the Middle Earth mod.

      • Hahaha omg a blast from the past! I remember feeling so “cool” the first time I got that to work. Then the trainer got released, and all hell broke loose trying to create “cooler gear” than my friend.

      • Diablo I days… soo soo far away… THAT was a good game.. Back then i couldnt even think what more it could`ve had..

    11. Simple awnser, do what im doing and don’t play diablo till the shitstorm that is blizzard perfecting the game rolls over, and then play the polished form.

      • They are the only ones still still having a reason to play – being paid for playing a.k. farming gold. No one else is…


    12. Where’s my slowpoke.jpg for this mind shattering news update!?

      “THIS JUST IN! The Diablo 3 economy is a trainwreck thanks to the RMAH and unchecked duping could make the situation even worse. In other breaking news… The online only feature offers players plenty of lag/rubberbanding but NONE of the extra security that was promised. Some players fear that these issues and a general lack of endgame could mean that the game is headed for a collapse in coming months.”

      Meanwhile game collapsed over a month ago.

    13. Let me just understand this Flux…are you saying you don’t think it’s possible for the game to create items with the exact same stats and name?

        • Stop that ridiculous number.

          It is all in the programming code and algoritm. And you have no idea how that is programmed and implemented.

          • No I don’t know Blizzards code for generating affixes on rares but I actually assume that they have competent programmers to take care of that. Especially considering the importance of ranomization in a Diablo game.

            But that specific number isn’t relevant, the point is that the chance of identical items being rolled on two different occations are astronomical. But that doesn’t mean that there’s a legit dupe involved. There are a lot of other plausible explanations for what we are seeing here, but I wouldn’t consider normal drops beeing one of them.

    14. Session spoofing says hi.

      That was true too remember ?

      Why is this Flux guy ALWAYS seeking ways to down talk Diablo 3 in ANY form possible.

      Not even waiting for an official blue post reply or some other theories, no it HAS to be broken…

      Every rumour is pointed at as if it is true.

      I can’t even count the number of fake and wrong theories that were brought in over here.

      But I still say the session spoofing was Legendary, even that Forbes idiot fell for it.

      The bad part is that it never gets rectified. Never. Ever seen the official Forbes excuses for the session spoofing lies?

      Nope, that’s called trolling a game dudes. Nothing more nothing less.

    15. There is only one solution.

      Delete ALL of them.

      You don’t disadvantage the original owner, since he’s the one that made the original duplication.

    16. its easy answer is simple, dont ue the AH gold or RM, all the AH does is degrade the quality of the game, but the games already ruined beyond repair

    17. As much as I’m for activities against duping and appreciate the general news about how to spot dupers, as much am I against putting the people in the pillory. So please inform Blizzard about the cases, but don’t directly outlaw them to the community. Getting one on the head from Blizz may lead to rethinking, getting one on the head from everyone around just fuels defiance…

    18. leej88 posted on battle.net in a reaction to this:

      Well, no.

      These are individual items. Some of the players themselves have even posted and confirmed it.
      One in particular who has explained they purchased the source from the AH (SS included) and has since told of threads on other sites about this item being duped, threads by another of the people using the item.

      ^ True story….

      I’m the one who bought the duped source off AH.

      With so much “publicity” going on, I doubt I can even sell it for what I got it for on the AH.

    19. Who cares, noone even plays this game anymore, there’s nothing to do.

      1.Add build commitment
      2.Runes have to be items, not unlockable switchable cod-likeness
      3.Fix crafting
      4.Fix jewelcrafting(dull gems aren’t any better than attributes from D2, they’re only worse and even more dull)
      5.Add skill tree or something interesting
      6.Remove level cap
      7.Add item customization like in Path of Exile with orbs or something similar, so there’s more to the game than a 0.1% droprate upgrade of an item
      8.Stop getting your ass shit on by a 15 developer indie company in terms of all game mechanics

    20. I guess I am all by myself out there playing then…..

      I have had 2 items drop with the same name, such as Runic Arcus, but both rolled different stats. I am not a compter genious, but with the rubber-banding and crazy lag, I could see somebody exploiting those issues in a way that would cause a duplicate item.

    21. I guess you guys missed the dupe incident around a month ago when there were like 8 identical rare bows on the AH and people bought them to see if it was a display error. It wasn’t. Was caught on a random stream too.

      Doesn’t seem to be too widespread though.

    22. Someone tell me why Blizzard shouldn’t refund real money to the buyer even though the seller may have already taken the money? Afterall, Blizzard is taking a cut everytime an item is being sold on the RAH, surely some for this money should be used to prevent cheaters?

      • You should probably read the terms and conditions of the RMAH before wildly assuming. As far as the legal grounds this is, how do you say new territory. I am not an attorney but my spouse is so I have no freaking idea, but what I did learn from the beginning of Die Hard 3 that having or possessing stolen merchandise is bad and Samuel L Jackson will surely yell at you for it.

    23. BTW I suspect that the name on the item massively reduces the possible variation on said item. Also if it was a dupe I would expect far more than 6 copies personally.

      We dont know the true odds of that combo of mods dropping nor the number of items named Arcanum Mind that have dropped.

      Here’s some basic math, using simple odds etc to get a rough idea of how common it should be to see a copy. Note since we are saying only Arcane Minds count we increased the odds of a copy in our samples as if you change the mods to much the name changes.
      If that combo of mods makes up 10% of Arcanum Minds then on average you get one 50% of the time in every 7 drops so to get 5 copies you only need ~70 Arcane minds on average and if its 1% drop chance its 50% chance of one in 69 drops that 690 drops to get 5 copies on average. For 0.1% chance its 50% chance of one in every 693 dropped or you can expect 5 in every 6930 dropped. For 0.01% chance its ~50% of 1 in 6932 or 5 copies in 69320 and so on.

      Given all this its not surprising that there identical copies floating around TBH I am surprised theres not more, given that over time more and more are made and people keep the best of the lot, means that a lot of of the weak ones vanish from the game either though the crafting system or being vendored, this means the top end group grows as a % of the total increasing the number of copies found when searching.

      • Nope, items names and mods are completly random, and not related to each other.
        Chances to get two identical items are incredible low.
        Chances to get six identical rares are comparable to chance that whole universe will stop exist in next 5 seconds.

        So its just dupes.

        • Ok … I would say that it’s more like getting struck by lightning 3 times in one week, but essentially you’re right…

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