Diablo 3 Transmog = Dressing Up Dolls?


Lylirra has made multiple replies in a very long thread defending the DiabloWikitransmog system coming in Diablo 3 Reaper of Souls. I’ll just pull a couple of quotes up here, with the full wall of text  conversation on the click through.

Being able to visually customize your character is something that many players enjoy, even in Diablo III. Unfortunately, right now it’s super difficult to experiment with different looks (or even achieve certain looks) without crippling your character’s power or efficiency. With transmogrification, players can continue to wear the gear that makes them feel powerful, while also wearing something that makes them feel pretty*. That seems pretty win-win to us, and certainly worthy of development resources.

Yes, not everyone will want to take advantage of transmogrification, but many players will and ideally it’ll make their in-game experience more enjoyable as a result.

i can think of so many other things i would like to see. instead of transmog
Lylirra: The majority of design decisions aren’t really binary like that (i.e. you get this OR that), and we’ve no plans to remove transmogrification at this point given the positive feedback it’s received thus far.

I’m not real concerned with transmog one way or the other, but neither am I worried that the feature is some giant timesink that’s holding back development on more important features. I don’t think that anyone *really* believes that, though quite a few people posting in the Bnet forum thread would have you believe that they do.

Video games are like life, or buffet lines — there are lots of different ingredients/features/options to choose from, and everyone will like some more than others. You know what video games are not like? They’re not a birthday cake baked by your mom, which means that they’re not tailored just to your personal tastes. Click through to see Lylirra display amazing patience responding to any number of people who haven’t yet learned the above lesson… but first we will vote!

 

Your opinion on the Transmogrification feature coming in RoS?

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The full thread, and in defense of the QQ brigade, Lylirra did ask them to voice their unrelated concerns…

does anyone really care how pretty my character looks? This seems like little girls playing doll dressup
Lylirra: Being able to visually customize your character is something that many players enjoy, even in Diablo III. Unfortunately, right now it’s super difficult to experiment with different looks (or even achieve certain looks) without crippling your character’s power or efficiency. With transmogrification, players can continue to wear the gear that makes them feel powerful, while also wearing something that makes them feel pretty*. That seems pretty win-win to us, and certainly worthy of development resources.

Yes, not everyone will want to take advantage of transmogrification, but many players will and ideally it’ll make their in-game experience more enjoyable as a result.

*See also: awesome, manly, epic, badass, like a boss, [positive adjective here].

forgive me….for being a party pooper
Lylirra: I don’t think you’re being a party pooper at all. I just think you’re voicing an opinion that might be different from other players you interact with. Having a differing opinion isn’t bad and it certainly doesn’t fall into party pooper territory. It’s when you assume that your opinion is more valid than others (particularly if said opinion seeks to belittle the enjoyment of people who aren’t you) and start to be a jerk about it that you need to be careful of your Double-P status. 😉

i can think of so many other things i would like to see. instead of transmog
Lylirra: The majority of design decisions aren’t really binary like that (i.e. you get this OR that), and we’ve no plans to remove transmogrification at this point given the positive feedback it’s received thus far.

Even so, let’s entertain the discussion. What kind of features would you like to see in Reaper of Souls instead of or in addition to transmogrification? And why?

i want less wow stuff. and more diablo stuff
Lylirra: We’ve no plans to suddenly starting adding features from World of Warcraft simply because they’re from World of Warcraft. We based transmogrification in Diablo III on the working model we have for World of Warcraft, yes, but the impetus for adding it wasn’t because “it’s in World of Warcraft, therefore it should be in Diablo III”; it was because (we feel) it provides a meaningful service to players, one that’s at present missing and has been repeatedly asked for. It’s not just a direct port, either; we’ve made several changes to the system to ensure that it makes sense within Sanctuary and fits the D3 game model.

So, the process is kind of like this:

  • Identify an issue or area that needs improvement > Discuss solutions > Is the best possible solution based on World of Warcraft? > Yes. > Okay, let’s tailor it to Diablo III.

OR

  • Identify an issue or area that needs improvement > Discuss solutions > Is the best possible solution based on a mechanic from World of Warcraft? > No. > Okay, cool. Let’s do something else.

NOT this:

  • Let’s arbitrarily add a World of Warcraft feature to Diablo III > Does it make sense to add this feature or solve any issues? > lol, no > Find excuses to add it anyway.

It’s all about having an issue to address or a role to fill first then developing a feature to fit, not vice-versa. 🙂

I think your transmog feature is a mistake, and I would much rather see you blatantly copy rifts wardrobe tab. I’m sorry, im very excited for transmog.. but not this transmog.
Lylirra: Cosmetic slots are pretty sweet! Though, perhaps not the best solution for Diablo III specifically. We feel the transmogrification system is a little more robust and a lot easier for players to maintain, especially in terms of item management.

For reference: unlike cosmetic slots (or even the way transmogrification works in World of Warcraft), the system in Diablo III doesn’t actually require players to keep the “visual” item in order to use its appearance. Which is great when stash space is limited. Instead, you unlock appearances by leveling up the Mystic – or, in the case of Legendary items, by identifying them. Once an appearance is unlocked, it’ll be available across all Normal characters or all Hardcore characters on your account, depending on which game mode you’re playing. Any appearance you unlock will then be stored in the transmogrification UI.

(For people who may have missed it, here’s a big write up by Vaeflare on the Mystic that goes over a lot of its functionality: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/11337855/)

Jennifer poops at the parties?
Lylirra: It’s easier than shooting some fish in a barrel. (Where do you get a barrel these days, anyway?)

The legitimate pve you said we would have at release. The build and item diversity you said we would have at release. And In loot 1.04.
Lylirra: Better replayability, greater build diversity and balance, and a (more) meaningful item hunt are all core pillars for both the expansion and pre-expansion patch. Those three goals are guiding nearly every decision and change we’re making, which includes but is certainly not limited to: smart drops, enchanting, Paragon improvements, loot runs, and the yet-to-be-officially-announced Adventure Mode (which you’ll hear more about at BlizzCon).

There’s also changes like:

  • Reducing the number of items that drop, but improving their overall quality
  • Narrowing stat ranges on items (example: instead of rolling 1-100 an item might now roll 80-100)
  • Breaking item stats into two separate categories — Primary (stats that directly improve your character’s power) and Secondary (stats that provide utility) — that can roll independently of one another to help avoid scenarios where a stat like Pick-Up Radius is having to compete with stats like Attack Speed or +%damage
  • Creating Legendary powers that are aimed at not only being mathematically powerful, but also have the opportunity to spawn meaningful and potentially interesting build choices
  • Plus a boatload of skill tuning that’s still very much in-progress (see recent datamining)
  • In the end, transmogrification is simply one small part of a much larger picture. We hope you’ll enjoy the result. 🙂The pvp you said we would have at release.
    Lylirra: As for PvP, that’s a fair request, but not one we have any immediate plans to address. Right now, our priority is focused on addressing issues with core gameplay and building upon the PvE experience. We really want to nail that first.

    Okay, so stupid question: Will I have access to the appearances of the identified legends I already have, or will I have to find/craft new ones to gains those appearances?
    Lylirra: Not stupid at all.

    Legacy Legendaries that are already identified will definitely not unlock an appearance. We’re still determining whether or not unidentified legacy Legendaries will work the same way/have the same restriction. Once that decision is made, we’ll be sure to let everyone know. I’d definitely recommend checking out Vaeflare’s blog in the meantime; lots of great details in there!

    FYI: legacy (in this case) = items that drop before the pre-expansion patch goes live.

    Can I just point out the flaw in this logic? The process should be based on innovation. You shouldn’t go right to working models and just tailor it to diablo 3. That seems like the basis of reasoning that has made diablo 3 a mediocre game.
    Lylirra: You’re trying to read between the lines when there’s no need to. We’re not immediately looking to pre-existing solutions. Rather, the scenario I provided was simply to illustrate that we don’t go out of our way to implement features from World of Warcraft “just because.” We do so if it makes sense for Diablo III and also happens to be (what we feel) is the best possible solution available.

    Another way of putting it is:

  • Identify an issue or area that needs improvement. > Explore and examine many different solutions, new and pre-existing. > Is the best possible solution based on World of Warcraft? > Yes. > Okay, let’s tailor it to Diablo III.
  • I’ve learned not to waste my time giving devs/blue my opinion. They rarely listen, and when they do, it takes them 2 years to act on it. Why bother?
    Lylirra: Oh STAHP. 🙂 We’re absolutely open to feedback and have made many changes based on it since launch, and are continuing to draw upon said feedback as we develop Reaper of Souls.If you’re perhaps wondering why we may not be acting on your particular feedback, though? That could be for two reasons, I suppose. On one hand, it’s possible the goals we have for Diablo III may not align with the goals you have. On the other, you may just be having a hard time communicating your wants or needs in a way we can understand and relate to. Seriously. It helps heaps if you voice your opinions constructively and leave them open to debate and discussion, rather than taking a completely offensive position and then just shutting down to alternative viewpoints (as I’ve noticed you’re sometimes wont to do). From a design perspective, it’s much easier to understand what an individual, or a even a community, wants/needs — and then figure out what we can potentially do to address that — if feedback is expressed in a way that encourages dialogue and is open to compromise.

    /friendly, though somewhat off-topic 2cents

    How about the team bases solutions on … wait for it … Diablo 2?
    Lylirra: If the best solution to an issue draws from Diablo II, we’ve no problem with that at all. There are many features in the game right now that are based on or pay homage to features in previous Diablo games. However, what we consider to be the best solution and what players consider to be the best solution will sometimes vary, and that I think that’s really the crux of the debate here.

    When implementing new features or making changes to existing ones, our goal is to improve the game as a whole and hopefully make your play experience much more enjoyable as a result. It’s not about where ideas come from, but whether or not they’re achieving said goal. We think transmogrification is something that will both improve the game and the play experience, and a lot of players would agree.

    As you can see by this discussion, though, we can’t always please everyone. This is where feedback comes in. While we may not be able to reach a 100% please-rate, we’re happy to re-examine our design decisions to see how we might get closer to that mark.

    Please the Diablo players, WoW players be damned
    Lylirra: So you’re saying that the many people who asked for visual customization options and will enjoy transmogrification somehow aren’t true Diablo players and should (therefore) have their feedback ignored? Interesting.

    I’d like to hear your argument for why a service like transmogrification doesn’t fit with a Diablo game, by the way (beyond “it’s from WoW”). How do you personally feel it takes away from the core gameplay experience? That’s not really been articulated yet.

    Transmorg you say? [email protected]#$ that’s priority number one, lets get it done and have an entire panel at blizzcon about how cool it’s going to be to change up how my char looks between a handful of different possible options.
    Lylirra: There’s a transmogrifcation panel at BlizzCon?! BUT IT’S NOT ON MY SPREADSHEETS.

    Seriously, though (and I noted this earlier): transmogrification is simply one part of a much larger picture. It’s not a linchpin; it’s a complement to many other features and changes being worked on for our expansion and pre-expansion patch milestones.

    Lylirra can you help us understand why a cosmetic change disables any further trading? Why is this requirement on par with a complex game mechanic like an affix reroll?
    Lylirra: Currently, the binding is part of the cost of the service and helps function as an item sink. While we’ll be removing the gold and real-money auction houses, we’re still evaluating what measures are required (in their absence) to ensure a good item acquisition/reward loop for any given player.

    Basically: it’s something we’re experimenting with, but isn’t set in stone. We definitely appreciate all the feedback. I’ve already passed on a lot of the discussions here to designers working on the Mystic, and they agree you’ve all brought up many great points (re: BoA). 🙂

UPDATE: A few more blue responses slipped in just after this went up so rather than create a second post on the same subject they can join the party here.


I really hope this is a subtle hint that your devs may find the complainants are right on this one and that BoA on transmog has a chance of disappearing into the aether. It’s a great system (even by the consideration of many who have never been MMO guys, WoW in particular) that I’d love to not see crippled for the sake of sinking items. =)

Lylirra: It’s more than a subtle hint. I actually just spoke to Wyatt this morning, and they’ve already tasked removing BoA from transmogrification.

About transmogrification skins and crafted legendaries.

  1. Since transmogrification skins for legendaries will be unlocked by identifying the item, what happens with crafted legendaries that come already identified?
  2. Will craft at least one of them count as having identified one?
  3. Will we be able to use those skins for transmogrification if the blacksmith knows how to craft them?


Lylirra: Wyatt told me to tell you “great point.” We’re looking into it right now. If the tech can support it, we’d like to grant players visual appearances for crafted Legendaries the first time they craft the item.

However, making the item BoA for upgrading it still makes a lot of sense. I hope that part gets left in there.

Lylirra: Enchanting an item will still bind it to your account, yup!

Any news about whether or not we’ll be able to carry forward legacy UNIDENTIFIED items to unlock skins in RoS?

Lylirra: No updates yet!

*Insert pithy closing comment here…*

Comments

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  1. If people do not like/use transmogrification than they have the option to let that part of the game be, aiight? If so than why not do such.
    For those that like the ‘dress up’ part, just chase your dreams and make the realm’s first tranny…

  2. “The majority of design decisions aren’t really binary like that (i.e. you get this OR that)” – Lylirra

    Goodbye, Lys. It was nice knowing you.
    Enjoy your last few moments before the angry mob of WoW developers (who have been preaching the exact opposite mantra for years and years) reaches your office.

  3. Some people apparently don’t understand the true benefits of transmog.

    Storage space is very expensive. That’s the reason they could only offer a limited stash in Diablo 2, and only so many pages in diablo 3. BUT, if people didn’t have to actually stash all of that gear, if they could just transmog it from a wardrobe tab with fixed stats, the cost drops. That could ultimately lead to a bigger stash.

  4. Curious about it, that is all. I used it a few times in wow but Gameplay >> Transmog.

  5. That first poll option is so funny, it’s tempting to choose it just for that reason. I love my wizard dolly!

    I went option 2. I don’t know how much I’ll like it until I start to use it.

  6. I really do not understand all the fuss about such a simple feature that does not interfere with the actual gameplay.

    The only point I see that is up for a debate is the fact that transmogrified items become bound to the account (and then are no longer tradable). And this is not even set in stone for the moment.
    Besides that, it is not such a “huge” feature that getting rid of it will give time and ressources to do something else important (PvP or whatever).

    More importantly, no more “Vile wars” horns on everybody’s shoulders !!!

  7. If they keep transmogrified items bind on account it is something I will never use.

  8. We definitely need weekly fashion shows for our dollies to determine who is prettiest.

  9. “Miss Sanctuary” contest is going to be interesting.

    Although there is no garantee that the candidates will end up the contest with their hear, arms, legs still attached
    to their body (if there is even a body left).

  10. Again their retarded attitude towards the game is being revealed. The designers act like Diablo 3 is a huge mystery, a big black box that somehow has to be explored and “ultimately improved”, as they would say. They are totally disconnected to rational decisions and totally missing the point of what is fun for the players and this is most annoying.
    This can only be the result of one big vaccuum in the designers’ heads. They simply don’t know where to go with this mess they inherited from Wilson.

    I mean, read this line:

    “..what we consider to be the best solution and what players consider to be the best solution will sometimes vary…”

    CONGRATS

  11. Vile Ward by itself should convince anybody for the need for some form of Transmorg. Another contender for good stats/ugly looks are Zuni’s helm, especially b/c of the great NM/Hell helms Doctors get.

  12. All this has done is that it reminded me what ABSOLUTE SHIT the battle.net forums are. And by that i mean that almost everyone there has shit for brains. I haven’t been there in about a year but I’m very glad (sarcasm) that they haven’t changed at all.

    I’m positive that if you were to set up an anonymous forum for mentally disabled people and for middle schoolers (kids aged 12 – 14, i.e. the unholy years), the quality of discussion and the quality of posts would be significantly higher and the average poster would be significantly more eloquent and more mature than the average d3 battle.net poster.

    This was just my attempt at conveying just how much I hate D3 battle.net forums.

  13. Not a fan. Do you have to have found the item first before you can make another item look like it?

  14. It’s something I’d very use and frankly I cannot understand why anyone would, but each to their own. I still laugh when D2 people say they wont use a Harly because it makes the character look bad! :rolf:

  15. The main thing i want and wish the game had right from the start, is just the ability to dye the legendary and set items!
    4 monks in the same game, all wearing Inna’s Vast Expanse, Inna’s Temperance, Ice Climbers or Natalya’s Bloody Footprints and a Mempo all the same color is stupid. That’s why just dyes would be enough for me.

  16. RPG’s always tend to attract this sort of goings on. The aesthetically minded people need this to better connect to the game experience I’m guessing. So be it, maybe if it had enough work put into it it could be enjoyable but personally I find the zero curvature (polygon outlined) figures and clothing in this game gross for its time and place. Everything has straight lines, so whats the point. Replace one coloured flat square plane with another?

  17. QUOTE

    "..what we consider to be the best solution and what players consider to be the best solution will sometimes vary..."
    
    

    change ‘players’ to ‘angry mob’ and the sentence is most valid
    she, as a community manager, cant address things by their real names sometimes

  18. Everyone praised the dyes idea even before Blizzard announced it. It was very welcomed back then. Why would this be different?

    It’s a nice little touch to add up. I like it. They do have so much more work to do on all other features though…

  19. As a person who plays by himself,(Another call for off line mode). Not in groups/public games , why the hell do I need to dress up my chars for? Waste of manpower including this feature.

  20. i understand the argument that assigning labor hours to the task of constructing the transmog feature is taking away from working on the core game, but at this point…i would like to dress up my dollies a little bit better. i hate that i have to choose between vanishing dye and vile ward shoulders….

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