Diablo 3 Self-Found is Stupid?


A fan argued strongly against the existence of any sort of Diablo 3 Self-Found or Ironborn mode and earned a Blue reply, plus lots of flames.

Look. Stop with all the self found crap already. What does it matter if your character is “self found” or not. There are too many variations and arguments about what it truly means. Also do you REALLY thing that Bliz is going to give you some kind of recognition for being too broke to use the RMAH to either get gold or buy items? No they’re not because they will get nothing for it. FACT companies only recognize those that spend money. Do you get anything cool for Para 100? No but do you get something cool if you buy the collectors edition and sit at level 1 forever.. YES.. Same with heart of the swarm.. You won’t receive anything special for finding your own gear.

not-sure-if-stupid-or-just-trollingTo truly be “Self found” you must literally FIND EVERYTHING.. Get your own gold for crafting (NO AH) find your own gems, recipes, armor, and weapons… and even after you do all that .. All of my SELF FOUND ON THE AH gear is going to make my toons stronger than yours. Stop trying to be snobs over not having the money to invest in the game.. Just play and move on. Flip items in the AH if you can’t afford to buy gold. Buy the best gear you can.. enjoy high end MP difficulties.
Vaeflare: People play Diablo III in different ways, and that’s entirely fine by us. Some players prefer the additional challenge of Hardcore mode, and some don’t. In a similar vein, some players have a lot of fun playing Diablo III using only the gear their heroes have uncovered in game, while other players prefer to utilize the Auction House. There’s nothing wrong with either, and in fact many of our developers enjoy playing self-found characters. If you don’t enjoy playing those sorts of characters, that’s totally fine, but please be respectful of players who do.

Self-found mode is something we still debate internally, in terms of if we want to try to support it as an official gameplay style. In concept, it sounds cool to recognize that your character is self-found, but there are a lot of different ways to play Diablo III, and we can’t support every niche gameplay style as a full playstyle within the game. That said, it’s still a topic we’re discussing.

The Fry image meme sums up the reactions of most people to the thread, and I’d like to thank the OP for making it so easy for me. Usually I have to create a meme image myself with the appropriate caption, but in this case there were hundreds lying around to be picked up.

Just to add something other than echoing the Blue’s self-evident “different people like different things” reaction… why not DiabloWikiIronborn? I can see that many people wouldn’t want to play that mode, and the issue of how strict a rule set to adopt is a sticking point, but it’s optional, and as long as the devs don’t spend a ton of time working on that instead of bigger changes to the game that benefit/affect everyone, it’s a pretty stupid thing to object to. Hence “troll or not?” queries are perfectly reasonable. And funny.

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  1. D3 self found is a misguided and unfunny meme. If people really want to do it, I don’t care, but people need to stop making it out to be something it is not and only advocating it because they don’t understand exactly what it would entail.

    It’s the “arrow to the knee” of the D3 world.

    • Not sure what your point is.

      Blizzard has explicitly said they balanced drop rates due to the existence of the auction house. This means drops in D3 are far worse than they were in D1 or D2.

      I would gladly play a self-found version, if it was explicitly restricted that you cannot use the AH at all (rather than some lame badge that showed on your character/banner) and in return provided much higher base item drop rates.

      • Most of the people that want self found are only doing so because they think it would allow them to get their upgrades on their own or because they think the difficulty bar will be lowered to the point where the terrible gear you’d find on your own is good enough.

        Neither is likely to be the case – the odds of getting good drops in this game are so terribly stacked against you, in so many ways that even if drops actually were improved by a full order of magnitude you’d still hardly ever find anything.

        This is especially true if the itemization patch actually succeeds – the more different classes and builds want different gear, the less gear is useful for whatever you’re playing now. The current, generic gear model is actually MORE favorable to self found (find a good item, it’s at least 1/3 likely to be good for you), because a good and diverse item system is in direct conflict with self found and stuff like trading that would normally fix those sorts of problems is in direct conflict with self found.

        Self found wasn’t viable in D2 and it’s likely to be impossible to even be made viable in D3. If people want to think otherwise, that’s their business (WRONG ON THE INTERNETS!), but when every other thread on D3 boards is about self found this or that I have to go and vent a little.

        • I think you’ll find lots of people played self-found in D2 and had no problems. In fact a lot of people played D2 for years and years and years. Those same people, such as much, gave up on D3 after a few months.

          “Neither is likely to be the case – the odds of getting good drops in this game are so terribly stacked against you, in so many ways that even if drops actually were improved by a full order of magnitude you’d still hardly ever find anything.”

          Blizzard can do whatever the hell they like. They could increase drop rates by 3 orders of magnitude, if required.

          The people who are wanting self found, are wanting Blizzard to make the game fun without relying on the AH, and for Blizzard to do whatever is necessary to make that true. It seems rather difficult to argue against such a proposition, IMO.

          • I have found many did so in D2. But viably? Months to do what normally takes days or even hours. Not much faster than D3.

            And it’s a question of competence. Blizz thinks 1/5 rares are good now. This is false even for self finders. You expect a thousand times better drops? Don’t hold your breath.

            You’d be lucky if you got a system where you can’t be trolled by people dropping junk to make you lose sf.

        • Dude what’s the alternative? Just buy your gear? With no new content or modes the only point in playing the game is for the gear. Your circumventing the point of the game. Further, the second you buy almost any item on the AH you almost guaranteeing you’ll never find an upgrade for that slot. Self found is the only way to go for me. Further Ironborn needs 1.5-2 log (50-100x) increase in drop rates (quality not number) or I’m not bit bothing. Further what the tells up with when referring to Ironborn and not wanting to cater for all play styles. So what, because you won’t cater for 1000 different play styles you can’t cater for 1?

          • Well… yeah.

            1,000 hours, 10 dollars. Guess what gets you further?

            It’s to the point where I play troll builds instead of the standards because efficient build = couch farm spec and you’ll never, ever get anywhere in game by playing it. Especially not with sub 50k dps, low mf, low mp. I got more from 1 flip than 1 month of play. I wasn’t even trying to flip, I just seen an underpriced item while pricechecking another I found and sniped it.

            Now I agree this is totally screwed up. I just don’t think self found would actually change the equation for the simple reason that for items to be exciting they need to be upgrades and good. SFs get more upgrades but less good items. Getting good items rather than less bad items – that’s the metric that matters most.

        • Again – your idea of “good drops” aren’t universal. I imagine for normal people – ie. people who play the game for fun and not “efficiency” – “good” would generally mean good enough to let you beat the game. Using this far more reasonable view, the game has plenty enough good drops to play self-found.

          PS – I’ve only ever played self-found since D1 and I beat D2’s Hell difficulty many times, usually with builds generally considered “underpowered”. But I guess I wasn’t “viable”, whatever that means.

          • If you’re playing the game for efficiency and you’re anything other than couch farm spec you’re already doing it wrong.

            That being said, items good enough to beat the game still aren’t something that drops in anything remotely approaching a reasonable timeframe even after all the difficulty nerfs and drop buffs. Even the best self founders < a 1 million gold set, which IS good enough to beat the game, and could even be afforded by simple gold pick ups if it weren't for that whole self found thing.

            The D2 equivalent would be if you could beat the game with 3 pgems worth of gear or 300 hours, except D3 is a lot longer than D2. And D2 Hell quality gear is a bit more expensive than that.

            But assuming you're right and the game is fine for self found RIGHT NOW then why is it every board is being spammed with requests to support it better? If it already works perfectly, you don't need any more help.

            No matter what your argument or angle, you lose as self found died with D1. D1, by the way doesn't have that many items in total (item pool isn't diluted), most people want the same items (generic stat boost loot = pro self found), and most of the good items can be bought from in game vendors.

            So take D3, remove most of the items, and put the rest on vendors? Is that what you want?

          • “If you’re playing the game for efficiency and you’re anything other than couch farm spec you’re already doing it wrong.”

            Thank you for trying to teach me how to play a game I’ve been playing and loving for well over a decade but I’m pretty sure I know what I’m doing.

            “But assuming you’re right and the game is fine for self found RIGHT NOW then why is it every board is being spammed with requests to support it better?”

            Jealousy. I actually agree that creating a whole new self-found mode just to prevent people from being jealous of other player’s much better gear is pretty dumb.

            PS – polls on this site have shown 15-20% of people already play self-found or mostly self-found. I suspect amongst the more casual crowd it’s higher. I wouldn’t be surprised if 1 in 4 people have never or rarely used the AHs.

          • “Thank you for trying to teach me how to play a game I’ve been playing and loving for well over a decade but I’m pretty sure I know what I’m doing.”

            The least efficient way of playing D3 is to play it at all. AH flipping (even accidental), farming your couch for pocket change, working one extra hour a week etc are all far more productive means of advancing in the game than even the most hyperefficient ADHD spin to win blitz spam.

            Therefore, if you are actually playing the game at all and running around killing monsters and you intend this to be a means of advancing your character you’ve already epic failed from an efficiency standpoint.

            The point, of course was that the items you get from playing the game aren’t good enough for anything or anyone except Haedrig. And then, crafting’s price tag is really too high for those self found guys to really utilize it anyways so those essences and tears have even less practical value.

            Now, after you’re done explaining how you’ve played a game released 5/15/12 (that’s precisely one week, one month, one year from the date of this posting) for over a decade, explain what part of that statement is incorrect. Don’t just try and dodge.

            “PS – polls on this site have shown 15-20% of people already play self-found or mostly self-found. I suspect amongst the more casual crowd it’s higher. I wouldn’t be surprised if 1 in 4 people have never or rarely used the AHs.”

            I’d be surprised if there were any significant number of casual players remaining. Most quit 11-13 months ago and never looked back. That said, I have a hard time believing that many actually do. Many might say they do as a badge of honor to cover for the fact they can hardly sell any items on the AH (an admittedly common occurrence for everyone) but even then, pick up gold piles > make 1M set > drastically improve character, allowing you to find more good items.

            I suspect this entire self found meme is a cross between the crab bucket mentality (some people have very weak characters, so they try and turn that into a positive instead of just not caring about how they measure up) and something like D3’s analogue of gay marriage (it shouldn’t even be a big deal or warrant much discussion, but the officials keep talking about it to distract the playerbase from more important things).

            At the end of the day I say Blizzard should put non boring, useful items in the game before worrying about whether or not people can find items independently of other players. Otherwise there’s nothing really worth looking for.

          • I would simply say that anybody playing any game “for efficiency” is, IMO, doing it wrong and has apparently forgotten what the purpose of Play is.

        • Because efficiency can’t be enjoyable when it is possible, and because D3 doesn’t require an efficient (out of game) approach to succeed within it at all.

          As I suspected, the core of self found is a crab bucket failure as success mentality.

      • “Blizzard has explicitly said they balanced drop rates due to the existence of the auction house. This means drops in D3 are far worse than they were in D1 or D2.”

        No, they said the exact opposite:

        “The drop rates were tuned for a player who would never use the Auction House. For the majority of internal development, we didn’t have an Auction House, and we all played using our own drops only. I’ve personally leveled multiple characters from 1 to 60 internally before the game came out using only drops that I found — we all did.

        When we say we “took the AH into account,” that means it’s one of many factors — i.e. some players will choose to play without trading, some players would play in a group of 4 where they share drops among each other, and some (as it turns out, many) players would use the AH.”

        http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6317360/6317360#dropratesah

        I’d love to see a blue post claiming the contrary, though – I’ve seen people say that over and over yet nobody is providing any evidence for it.

        • Mind you, I play a version of self-found as well (my brother and I share drops) but to me the appeal of a self-found mode isn’t some sudden increase in drop rates, but more a matter of convenience. If you want to play self-found then that character should receive his own gold, his own stash and so on, just like a hardcore character, so that you don’t have to keep track of that manually.

          However, unlike HC, I don’t think it should be a permanent choice – it should be possible to do a one-way conversion of items and characters from self-found to normal, just in case you find that fantastic item that you want to share with another (normal) character of yours, or perhaps even trade it (although that is debatable).

        • I don’t really buy that follow-up justification. It sounds like ass covering to me.

          Also saying they levelled characters from 1 to 60 during development doesn’t really mean all that much for the end product, since obviously during developments things were different – could have been easier or harder. Furthermore the general fan dissatisfaction with the item-game they delivered, which they thought was acceptable to ship, shows their judgement is suspect.

          • I don’t think it is. They’ve repeatedly stated that they didn’t anticipate players to progress as quickly as they did, simply because they didn’t anticipate so many players to use the AH in order to skip ahead of the intended progression curve. If drop rates had indeed been balanced around the AH to the point where they’re “far worse than they were in D1 or D2” as you suggest, I doubt we would’ve seen anything near the same effect. Jay’s comments about the AH being a bit of a mistake because it ended up affecting the game more than they had expected also supports this.

            But yeah, if your argument is basically “I don’t believe them” then there’s obviously nothing I can say to that.

          • So the corollary is that if the AH was not in the game, the drop rates would have still been exactly the same?

            I don’t buy that. On the other hand, Blizzard have shown that they don’t know how to design a fun item game, so maybe they are being truthful – they really are that useless.

        • Ask and you shall receive.

          http://www.cinemablend.com/images/sections/44096/_1340960757.jpg

          You proving that blizzard said the opposite of X does not prove that blizzard didn’t say X. The premise that blizzard staff members does not contradict each other is simply false.

    • I know drop rates aren’t great. I still don’t care. I play some form of Ironborn/self-found with each of my toons.

      For my main, my rule is that I’m entirely self-found, but will sell yellows on the AH. If I find a green, I’ll buy the other pieces for the set (the cheapest available regardless of stats) on the GAH. So I have a Manticore instead of a Hellrack and I don’t often find stuff better than I already have, but when I do it’s wonderful.

      For my main HC character (which hasn’t died yet, thankfully) I’m 100% self-found. No AH whatsoever. No trades.

      I couldn’t care less how others play or what they think of my approach to the game. This will be far more enjoyable approach on the console version as drop rates are increased, but it’s not nearly the awful waste of time on PC that people make it out to be.

  2. Id love to play Self found on Diablo 3 but the way this game is made, its not worth your time. You would spend 100 years and probably never be able to gear a toon to handle MP5 Inferno. Some claim they have but unless I see proof I am going to say its not possible. I spent over 1000 hours and never found anything good on SC. I played pretty much self found for the first 4 months, joined my first public game and realized my character was garbage. Pretty heartbreaking. I am happy Diablo 2 is much nicer to me when it comes to self found. I am going to be trying out the console version when it releases to see if self found can be done their, I mean.. It has to right? Really curious how its going to work out haha.

    -ZeroAffex

    • I think the other end of the scale is a little sad as well.

      I check profiles of people I’m playing with in multiplayer, and am shocked at the amount of players that have one char, played less than 100 hrs, that have bought perfect gear.

      What’s the point? You’re not going to find anything better for that char, and you don’t play any other classes. I guess they splurge on D3, then move onto something else…

      There IS some good comedy there though… I notice most of these players don’t have any account bound gloves, ammys, etc. Either they don’t know about crafting, or haven’t trained their NPCs.

      I saw a paragon level 100 the other day with a topaz in his helm, so I guess a lot of people don’t research anything either.

  3. I understand why people want a self-found game, but the way DIII is currently set up may make it impossible. Just imagine trying to get a radiant star anything on your own. 5 Mil gold, 1,631 ToS, and 729 FS gems. For self-found to work, more changes will be required.

    • Some people played D2 for 10 years. Imagine if after 10 years, there were still new things to find, upgrade, craft, ect. Things like radiant star gems are only a “problem” if you expect to be able to find EVERYTHING, and to find it NOW (or at least SOON).

      • but you couldn’t have done that with D2’s ladder system anyway

        so you’d have to do non-ladder for 10 years

        so you’re giving up one enjoyable (in my opinion) feature — ladders with everyone starting on equal footing and a new, clean balanced economy — just so you can have items exist long term with the hope of crafting something cool 7 years from now

        • Except that when ladders are over, characters go to non-ladder land.

          Also, I imagine that “a new, clean balanced economy” is only especially appealing when your game has a really crappy, broken economy.

  4. Artificially gimping yourself in any game is stupid. Especially when it comes to shit that you can just lie about and means nothing to anyone other than yourself.

    “Oh yeah well MY self found hardcore character just reached paragon 100 and I did it all with one eye closed the entire time and I only picked up legendaries BUT only every other legendary that dropped even if I knew it was a good one I’d leave it on the ground. Did I mention that while I was doing this I went without food and…”

    Man shut the **** up.

    • Just… wow. Why not add cheat codes while you are at it, god mode for a start eh? Some botting so you have an easier time? Because hey why gimp yourself? No one would know. In fact why even play when you can just TELL people you did it duh… Man Blizzard is so stupid they should replace the login with an I win button. Game would be sooo EZ I would play the shit out of it then!!!

    • Self-found isn’t about bragging, it’s about recognizing that the a game like this is about the journey and not the destination. It’s also about recognizing that game designers gimp players all the time in ways they believe would make for a more enjoyable experience. The only difference here is that players take matters in their own hands because the designers didn’t have the foresight of doing so in this particular way.

      The irony is that you come to accept the challenges that are created by the devs but not the ones created by the players, even though they exist for the very same reason.

      What I’m trying to say is: your post is bad and you should feel bad.

      • I feel bad that players feel compelled to gimp themselves due to the fact that the designers are so terrible at their jobs.

        I understand the desire to play self-found. I also understand that it springs from desperation. For example… a child with no friends creates an imaginary one himself.

        • No, it’s just the logical step for us who played D2 single-player and wanted to carry on doing that in D3 despite its always-online nature.

          Desperation has nothing to do with it, just like it didn’t in D2. Multiplayer is optional, not mandatory.

        • Honestly one of the most absurd comments I’ve ever seen.

          The only reason to play this game is to find gear. If you buy the gear, what’s the effing point of playing the game?

          My selfie couldn’t handle MP 2 for a long while solo. Then it could. Then it couldn’t handle 3 or 4. Now it could (with some trouble). I go on Key runs on MP3 and am often the most powerful player in the party. Can I handle MP 10? No, of course not. Do I care? No. I’ll get there eventually.

  5. I think they should officially support at least self found mode if not many more. In this regard Path of Exile has a great system where you have a few modes and you can choose ANY COMBINATION of them, for example hardcore self found world pvp enabled. PoE also supports (paid) custom modes made by players, read more here: http://www.pathofexile.com/leagues
    Anyway D3 looks kinda basic with only two modes in comparison.

  6. I play hardcore and ironborn at the same time.
    Why? Because of the challange and because it’s much more fun. Playing ironborn you find better gear a lot times, much more than if you buy in the AH. If you buy one of the best gear in the AH you will have a 0.0001% to find a better gear in the game.
    Ironborn you can´t use AH and you can’t accept items from other players.
    You can buy from a vendor, although after nightmare they are pretty useless.

  7. The biggest problem with self found for me, at least, is lack of pvp. I would love to do a self found ladder if there was good pvp. I would play that shit so much. Unless they put in new endgame content and give us more to do, even with self found ladders… the game is just boring to farm. The grind is bad in d3. Where as the grind was fun in d2 and still is.

  8. People have no clue how to play D3.

    Actually: limit yourself to one class in HC. Keep stocking up the old gear once you advance. Lvl 10, 20, 30, 40 etc.

    Best items per slot go to your stock every 10 levels or so.

    As the avatar dies, you go back and restart with the stocked gear that simply gets better and better with found and crafted gear per avatar.

    Of course the goal in HC mode is killing D3 in Inferno …

    All the above is even a natural playing mode in hardcore D3.

    So again, people above have no clue about this rather natural and simple playing time for D3.

    • “As the avatar dies, you go back and restart with the stocked gear …”

      holy crap ! I never thought of that !

      reusing gear that was in my stash ? !
      is that even possible ? !

      you’re a freaking genius

      seriously dude, you should write a guide because I’m sure you know a lot of tricks know one else has ever thought of

      like this one …

      “Of course the goal in HC mode is killing D3 in Inferno …”

      all this time I thought saving Leah was the goal

      after all, I keep failing to save her and the game keeps starting over at Act 1, so I figured saving her would finally end the game

      thank you for that clue
      now I don’t have to waste my time with her anymore

      Flux should hire you
      you are an asset to the community and a genius

      • Of course, you can only play one class seriously with this kind of stock on old gear due to limited space..

        My post was simply to prove that playing with self found gear in HC is possible AND it is a blast.

        Apparently not many experience it this way in view of the original article.

        🙂

        • “due to limited space”

          if you’re only playing one class seriously then why not use your other character slots and make a bunch of level one chars and use their inventory ?

          that solves your space problems right there

      • I might add you are an idiot but I guess your post already showed it.

        Btw by the end goal of HC D3 , I meant killing D3 in inferno with each class and not going to do MP7 runs as this is indeed not possible with self found gear.

        So you didn’t even understand I made a post about how to play self found mode in D3 HC to counter the point made by the poster at the start of the thread.

        It shows your usual attitude.

  9. his argument against self-found mode is stupid, but he did have a good point with …

    “FACT companies only recognize those that spend money. Do you get anything cool for Para 100? No but do you get something cool if you buy the collectors edition and sit at level 1 forever.. YES”

    at least Path of Exile gives you a t-shirt for completing all the challenges this ladder season

    it would be nice if D3 gave you something for leveling and doing achievements, even it’s something as simple as adding a non-damage visual effect to your weapon

    • Your avatar picture changes by progressing in Paragon levels and your achievements can be showed on your battle standards.

      O you even play the game ?

  10. Well done! The fact that blue actually responded to this trolls post, just further glorifies it.

    I tip my hat off to you sir!!!

    He managed to get his point across brilliantly…
    That people that really work hard not getting enough reward vs people that pay to win, or vs people that don’t even actually play the game itself.

  11. You can play self-found RIGHT NOW. If you want to play self-found, please do! Why waste the time spent programming another game mode, character slots, stash spaces, etc. on something that already exists?

    Continuing to actually improve the game is where time would best be spent. This nonsense is a complete waste of time for everyone involved – the posters on both sides of the “argument”, the devs, the forum CMs, EVERYONE.

    • You could play Hardcore without official support also; just delete your char if you die. Would that feel the same as HC does in the game now? Of course not.

      The point is that different play modes create communities and an ecosystem of players all following the same rules, which makes it fun. Makes it possible to do multiplayer games with others following your ruleset. Just doing X by yourself is certain possible, but it’s not at all the same. And since D3 doesn’t allow player modding or offline play or private servers where players who wanted something different could easily have it; we’ve got to ask the devs to enable it officially.

      • At what point do you stop fracturing off communities? Will we have a separate mode for people who went to college? One for people that skateboard? I understand your point, that people want different options than are presented. My issue is that there is plenty of work to be done to the game that is far more important.

        I’m currently playing hardcore. Would I have still purchased this game if it didn’t ship with that game mode? Yes. Just as those who purchased the game without self-found mode did.

        I’d be much more supportive of this endeavor if the game was polished up and there were no new content patches upcoming. So between the last patch and the expansion would be about the only time I’d find that necessary (assuming it wouldn’t slow the expansion down). Then this mode would already be set up for the expansion, as an added benefit.

  12. I don’t ever buy from AH. I bought only once a crappy weapon, just to see how it is done as a procedure. I would really like to see an ironborn mode. For me, this is the way I played D2 and this is the way I will play D3. So no big deal. It would be nice to know Im with others who have chosen the same.

  13. I know i’m in the minority, but my two cents:

    I’ve never played with a public game or used the AH. Not interested in the logistics of either. Totally Ironborn.

    I’ve got 4 characters at Paragon 8-10 with 450 hrs total playing time(my Barbarian I left at lvl 33, not a fan of the class).

    All 4 are viable at MP2, almost MP3. Why bother with higher MP? Who cares?

    I’ve really enjoyed the game. I’m just now at the \just farming for loot\ stage. If I get bored eventually, I’ve certainly got my money’s worth.

    An Ironborn mode would have been cool, but not necessary.

  14. It was one of the rare occasions when I actually yelled WHAT THE F- at the screen after I read what this guy thought about self-found.
    I guess he is the kind of gamer who can’t play an FPS game without auto-regenerating health.

  15. The big thing about Ironborn, like Flux said, is making sure everyone is on the same playing field and following the same set of rules.

    I enjoy finding new gear and competing with friends and other players trying to get the most out of my char, but having to play with those who choose to use the AH effectively defeats the purpose of the game for me, which is the itemgrind. To be competitive, to not be considered complete crap, you are forced into using the AH. I don’t like sitting in the AH. I want to play the actual game.

    I realize they are talking about revamping itemization and whatnot. While I agree it needs a lot of work, I don’t think personally I would care nearly as much if the game simply had an Ironborn mode in it.

    Every time a new patch is released, I login and play for about 30 minutes until my inventory is full, go back to town and identify everything. A lot of the items seem really good when I glance at them and I’m excited. Then I look at what I’m wearing – what I’ve bought from the AH – and I realize all the drops are crap and I quit the game and wait for the next patch. But IF I wasn’t forced into using the AH, I’d be happy with a lot of the loot I get even now.

    Also I’ll say it again. Give me Ironborn and I’ll happily use microtransactios to buy some extra stash pages. There you go. More real money than you’ll ever get from me from the RMAH!

  16. OP sounds like a chinese gold farmer, which business is being threatened by the (upcoming) availability of ironborn mode..

    • Gold is around 2 cents per million. I don’t give a damn what the cost of living charges are there. It costs more than that for the electricity to run their gold farm bots.

      Chinese gold farmers are already dead.

      But if you see people really adamant about a ladder that seem aware all a ladder really does is allow another round of item sales when prices reset…

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