Diablo 3 RNG Overhaul. Does “RNG” need less “R”?


Does Reaper of Souls’ weighted drop rates, enormous variety of items, lack of trading, and general randomness make it too difficult to find what you want, and especially to collect complete item sets? Is it time for a Diablo 3 RNG Overhaul?

How long do you think it is reasonable to get a full class specific set? (What I call “end game items” plus the very rare OP items like DiabloWikiCalamity, DiabloWikiWand of Woh etc…)

I did 800 rifts, yes 800, playing every single day since 2.0 probably more than 8h/day. At the moment, I didn’t even complete one single set. Half of the few items that I got for sets come from friends. I don’t even have 4 pieces.

So, BLUE give me an idea of what time I should spend on , excuse me to recall you , what was once called “a game”, something that should be FUN (which seems totally out of your D3 specifications)

Vaneras: “No matter how long you play, you are not guaranteed a legendary / set item to drop.”?
Very much this! I’m not trying to be patronising when saying this, so please forgive me if I come across like that, but such is the nature of Diablo games—by playing the game you have a chance at acquiring the loot you are looking for, but it will never be possible to guarantee that you will get it. Because of this, it is also not possible for me or anyone else to say how much time it will take for you to get the item you are looking for, and whether or not said time is within reasonable.

whats the purpose of cache dropping torment legs then?
Vaneras: The purpose is to increase your chances of getting legendary items, and by extension give you an additional chance to get a particular item that you might be looking for. That of course still does not guarantee that you will get said item, but your chances will be improved.

IMHO, the purpose of enabling caches (if earned in Torment) to drop DiabloWikiTorment-only legs is to de-incentivize the cheesiness of Normal difficulty split-farming. I don’t think it’ll work (unless they make the DiabloWikiRing of Royal Grandeur Torment-only), even if they greatly buff the chance of legs popping from Torment quality Caches, but it should offer some incentive to doing something in the game other than normal A1 split-farming — or — Torment+ DiabloWikiNephalem Rifts.

Does this sight still get your hopes up?

Does this sight still get your hopes up?

On the larger issue, what about that R iN the G? The heart of the item hunting experience in Diablo 2 and now in Diablo 3 is that it’s random, within certain broad guidelines. Diablo isn’t WoW or other ARPGs where only X monster can ever drop Y item, and if you want it you know you have to just farm it endlessly, until it pops. The Diablo RNG system gifts unto players a much wider array of farming options, which is a blessing and a curse. You might get your coveted Item X from a barrel or from an Act Boss, but you don’t really have any way to seek it more specifically. Should there be such options?

Reaper of Souls returned runs in various ways, most obviously with DiabloWikiLegendary Materials, where you need one material for each crafting recipe, there is just one or a handful of creatures that can drop it, and you know where to go and what to do if you want to find it. As we discuss on the current podcast, it can get pretty boring running DiabloWikiThe Matriarch’s Bones over and over again just to find the DiabloWikiShard of Entsteig Plate material which you need for crafting DiabloWikiAughild’s Authority set items… but at least you know where to go and what to kill to obtain what you’re after.

Given that our current vote shows a (surprising?) majority of you guys feel that Diablo 3’s RNG system is not just unfair, but “broken” it seems like the devs should be making some changes. How could that work? Weighted odds of finding items from a set if you’re wearing 1+ item of it already? Specific enemies with better odds to drop item types (e.g. Cydaea is +50% chance for wands, Siegebreaker is +50% chance for maces, etc). Or how about a general game-wide bonus to find items from any item class your character already has equipped?

On a related point, something I was debating with Elly yesterday; should D3 offer some long term building up type items? Diablo 2 had that with Runes, where even if you found no good items, you’d at least find a steady supply of DiabloWikirunes, which you could upgrade and eventually create really powerful ones. Diablo 3 kind of offers that with blood shards and rift keys, but those can not be directly cashed in for an upgrade or an item. They just enable further RNG efforts.

What if you could spend, say, 500 Shards and 100 Rift Keys to gamble a specific legendary item? Or is that what Crafting is for, and some items should remain “get lucky and find them or not” since that’s just how the Diablo games work?

Comments

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  1. Personally I think they should adjust the loot tables more when you go into a torment or above game. Not only should the torment only items be added to the loot table but the low end legendaries should be removed from the loot table. By low end legendaries I mean the ones that are basically “stat sticks” with no build changing properties. This would give people more of an incentive to play in torment or above. If Blizz felt like it they could even do more removing the higher up in torment difficulties you went so in torment 6 you would have a pretty good possibility of finding the better legendaries as the lower end ones would all be removed from the loot table at that point.

    • I kind of agree, in a way. I can’t tell you how much I hate seeing Echoing Fury drop (it’s beyond useless on a Barb). And I’ve only played RoS for roughly 110 hours.

  2. I’m not sure if it’s more frustrating not finishing your sets, or getting repeats of the items you already have in your set.

    My RNG output had me getting 2 pieces of Marauder’s and Natalya’s only with repeats, while I received 1 of each item in the Shadow set.

    As for new features, I’d like to see a rune/charm thing for elemental effects. Something like “keep this charm in your inventory to make your spender attack cold damage.”

  3. I just cant understand why they dont just look at D2 and why that was so succesful. Its still Blizzard their game, even if its from a different team. Its all within their rights.

    Its not the problem that items can drop randomly. Its that when this drops, the stats are still so random, you’re praying for a decent roll. This just means that rather quickly into the game you’re hitting a ceiling. Most classes need some set to progress on. It just amazes me why they keep turning their backs on a product which showed them the way on how to do it…

    Im really happy that other people still enjoy the game, but if statistics show one thing, most of us will hit that ceiling. Some do it in a week, because they play 10 hours a day, others do it in 4 weeks because they only play 2.5h a day and others even longer. But from the hardcore players, only the grinders are left. I can see the same happen within my guild. The two grinders, who can basicly turn their brain off, still enjoy the rifts and bounties. Others are slowly losing interest.

    • Agreed Retardje. At the end of the day the game is just not rewarding enough.

    • Pretty much.
      It’s been debated many times:
      a) Legendaries (especially crafted ones) should have less random stats. Crafting a Legendary with 6 random stats is not interesting. A Legendary should always be interesting. Sorry to pick the same old examples, but take D2 LoD: random ranges on almost fixed stats.
      b) Medium term goals like Runewords. Besides the fact I am not being objective because I loved Runewords concept, it is something to work towards. You collect white items, you socket them, then you rune them.
      Runes would be single level gems with special properties either to be found on monsters or as rewards for bounties, quests etc…
      That said, as a casual, RoS is much improved over D3.

    • Because it burns them so knowing that D2 is a much better game in all aspects shapes and sizes.

      It buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrnnnsssssss!!!!!

    • I played D2 for pretty much the decade it was out before D3 hit and there are still a few items I never found (Tyreal’s Might, for example). So having rare items that don’t drop often is OK in D2 or it’s not OK in D3? Not sure how your argument works. The rarest things in D3 drop far more frequently than the rarest in D2 ever did.

      Amazingly, I found two Zod runes before the rune patch. Quite a feat, that.

      • The argument works because we could trade in D2. So on the whole playerbase, those items did drop and were available through trading.

        If they can find the middle road in drop rates, trading and not having bots/third party sites messing it up, their current drop rates could work with a bit of twinking.

  4. I like how Vaneras dodged the first question. Diablo3 is an Hack&Slash(or aRPG whatever. Part of the lure of the game is finding those cool items, eventually(reasonably). As a consumer who has spent money, my definition of “eventually/reasonably” translates into no more than two or maybe three months. That is my personal limit to which I am willing to consider playing the game(focusing on one character) before I stop because the game becomes not fun(unreasonable). It becomes not fun because there is no possibility of experiencing all or the majority of its content. If It took 3 months(couple hours per day) for the “R”NG to drop the items I am most interested in then I would gladly repeat this process with the other five classes. That adds up to 18 months. That sounds to me like a good way to retain customers and hold their interest in any additional expansions you may wish to sell them.

    As a gamer I don’t see how weighted loot-tables are fun(reasonable). Your business model may be to try to lure me into grinding your game for the 2+ years between expansions, but I’m not falling for it. Not with weighted loot tables in the mix. I took myself to another game where I have fun(rewarded for my time investment). That’s what customers do when they are unhappy.

    Higher difficulties should reward you with higher legendaries, not the bottom rung ones with no legendary property(why are they legendary again?)
    Finding 10 useless variations of the same legendary(that doesn’t have a legendary property) isn’t fun. Creating a game where the server may choose not to include the particular item you desire in its loot table isn’t fun. Every new game will lose an initial amount of players in the beginning, that’s normal and expected. So why is it NOT expected that players will leave when they decide they aren’t having fun?

    Obviously the line of where fun starts and stops is different for everybody. I think blizzard will soon discover that’s a short line considering what we now know about how ROS handles loot.

    • removing items from a drop table is a terrible idea. Imagine if Vegas casinos changed their slot machines to never pay out the jackpot on some days.

  5. Tighten up the range of stats on each item and then grade items, both by quality and drop chance accross the difficulty levels.

    Firstly, cap each leg with a min and max level that a certain stat can roll linked to difficulty level. Say the max STR a rare can roll on normal is 100, then make the Leg roll between 90 and 130. Its more likely to an upgrade but not uber. And crucially, is most likely not a dissapointment. The same Leg on the next difficulty can roll between 110 and 160, etc. Each time you find the same Leg on a higher difficulty it would give you a sense of progression as well as an edge to make it into the next difficulty level. If you pitch it just right, the top rolled T6 Legs will be ever so slightly just OP for the lolz and bragging rights. Do this for the legendary only abilitys as well – ligtening jumps to an extra enemy each difficulty level for Thunderfury, the chance and radius of the explosion increases a few yards for Andys Vis, Goldwrap drops an extra gold coin per difficulty level! Except maybe not for that item that spawns champs from shrines though, definitly not.

    Secondly, weight the items so the more boring stat-sticks that are just a little better than rare items can drop mostly in the lower difficulty levels with but allow occasional ‘better’ legendarys/sets to drop right up to the higher torment only items, just with difficulty level linked stats. At the other end, reduce the drop weighting of the low-end items in favour of the high-end items at T6. This will give you a sense of progressing through the items as well as up the quality ladder, and allowing for the occasional \OMG – got lucky!!!\ item that you will covet, then agonize over keeping, then shed a tear when you finally have to salvage it. It would also mean that even if you did get a lower-end item on T6 it would have a higher stat range so would hopefully be less useless. Also allows you to build up sets over time, and gradually phase out the lower tier items as you find more guranteed-ish upgrades.

    Basically, I think the rate at which items is found is pretty spot on. Just the quality of the items is too variable. Legs need to be Legendary! In my view, this means a smidge over powered. Let them do crazy things, gurantee that they will allow you to unleash some crazy. Not too much, but enough to make you feel mighty! At the moment they make you feel like an accountant.

  6. Blizzard needs to dangle more carrots and make players strive to hit the highest difficulties. By tiering legengdaries towards Torments 1-6 it would force players to have to farm each level of Torment to progress to the next. I also think the Mystic should be able to display the highest torment items in that torment so players know what the rare items are. Let’s say my DH wants the best 1-hander and it’s Danetta’s Revenge. I have not been able to find it but after salvaging say 10-15 legendary 1-handers. I can give Myriam those salvages plus say 100 blood shards to acquire it. At least you could buy one if you never found it. Torment 6 could be Calamity for instance and require say 50 salvages and 500 shards. Now also factor armor, amulets, rings etc etc, you know what is available and your work would be rewarded to acquiring those high-end rare legendaries. I think it would make every level of torment important and you could feel a sense of gradual achievement. What about different legendaries for story mode? Hardcore? Give people a reason to play everything to lengthen the interest of the game.
    In my opinion it’s been about a month and a 2 weeks since release and we’re already complaining? One of my biggest is being trolled by Blackthorne’s items and Wailing Host rings. I do agree with everyone we are or have hit the wall soon, and something has to be done. I do love ROS and think the game is in better hands but I also feel interest fading amongst players.

  7. Hi,

    Finally with RoS, D3 reminds me of D2. I started D2 quite late, played it for 2 years and did my share of boss runs (thousands?).
    I got an ethereal oculus and 1 or 2 ist runes. I could complete my char with shako, mara, tal rasha’s set through trading, I say trading but it was mostly generosity out of pity from people who botted.
    Botters were plenty, after a while it seemed to me like the only viable way to get HL runes and gear so it frustrated me and I stopped playing. I was still so far from an ideal gear.
    So D3 starts to feel the same, without botting and trading though which for the first makes it less frustrating to those who actually farm, but for the second much more difficult to get HL gear.

  8. Bind on Equip and allow trading, most of the problem solved.

    Instead we have a single player gamer with nearly zero chance to get the gear we want. Or make all legendary items purchasable through gold and other crafting items, not gamble an item slot. Want X set piece? It will cost you two sets plus X gold plus X blood shards.

    Not that hard Blizzard to make a system that will please the fan base and not break the game.

    • We debated that a lot in the past, and it seems like it would be equivalent to hanging a sign on Diablo 3: “Item farmers welcome!”

      If there’s BoE and trading, then it’s an incredible incentive for botting, real money item sales via 3rd party sites, etc. Maybe that’s okay, or you think it’s worth the trade off for more available gear for lower level players, but with the closure of the AH Bliz sent a clear indication that they want players to play the game and find items themselves, not just buy them.

      • My idea is to enable ANONYMOUS trading that’s more like gambling with your items than a straight trade.

        1. To give more of a reason to do campaign mode, award an Unbinding Stone for completing it.
        2. Go to Kadala to put an item up for trade for a price (an Unbinding Stone & X number of Forgotten Souls, Shards, etc.), that stays there for a specified time frame (maybe 2 days like auctions were).
        3. Limit the number of items you can have up for trade at one time (maybe 10 like auctions were).
        4. For a price, she would have a tab that shows you a random selection of available items for a specified item type or slot of your choice.
        5. When you see something you want, pay her to put a hold on it, which removes it from being shown to others.
        6. You are only allowed to have X items on hold at one time.
        7. When one of your items has been placed on hold by someone else you will receive a Trade Token.
        8. Once you have X number of Trade Tokens, you can trade them in for ONE of the items you had on hold. The other(s) will be destroyed.
        9. If nobody puts your item(s) on hold by the end of the specified time frame, it is destroyed (this would reduce placing junk up for trade).

        As I said at the beginning, this method would be more like gambling, but now the price is the items you find instead of just Shards. As a byproduct it will remove good items from the economy as well, slowing “item inflation”. Also, it should keep 3rd party sites from making money off the trading system since it’s anonymous.

      • I still think free trading within a clan – if the item dropped while you were member of that clan – would be the best solution. I’m in a clan with 6 people and one of them doesn’t seem to drop a helm ever – I found 5 in that time and can’t give them to him because he was offline when they dropped… It’s the same when I find an upgrade – I can’t even give it away…

        Clans are capped at idk 150 members and you can only be a member of 1 clan at a time. Add to that the restriction that the item needs to have dropped while you are a member and you have micro-economies that can’t ever get so out of hand as the general economy did. Will some people abuse the system? Yes! But they did it in d3v, they are doing it now, they will always find a way to cheat – no need to make the game frustrating for the rest of us.

        • Then every player in D3 will join a clan so you may as well just put trading back in the game with that idea ?

          • But they can trade with a maximum of 150 persons (but most clans are much smaller anyway) – so it’s on a very small scale and absolutely not comparable to generally re-enabling trading without restrictions.

            As for people joining clans: I guess that’s what they are for.

      • Uh hello, we already have all those. Including paragon leveling and item farming with botting on top of it all. Welcome to the real world read much?

  9. Yeah too random. Too many legendaries and sets have mostly random properties. Take the Sunwuko set, which is intended for a Monk but can roll any main stat and every piece comes with 4 random properties. Why? Make a monk set a monk set – the bonuses are related to staff use and spirit. Only 2pc and 4pc bonus though, no 3pc.

    So you find the lvl 70 set amulet with main stat and attack speed. The shoulders come with main stat and AR. The helm comes with main stat and a skill. The gloves come with main stat and crit. Every single piece comes with 4 randoms. Why? Make it 1 or 2 randoms if you have to, at least you could re-roll one of them.

    The gloves caption is “Sunwuko is said to have been the greatest staff fighter from Xiansai to Ivgorod, and his gloves possess a nimbleness to them second to none.”

    Yet no attack speed. They should roll trifecta, or grant a property that’s outside the normal range such as 10-12% crit.

    “Providing excellent counterbalance to a fighter in motion, the pauldrons of Sunwuko the Monkey King are renowned for their ability to improve agility. With these equipped, a trained monk can truly master the martial arts… or dance.”

    Yet the pauldrons have resists. They could grant attack speed or increase to dodge. Lashing tail kick resource cost halved.

    The helm is for the monkey king. There is a drunken monkey technique called monkey hands. They could have made a property that caused exploding palm to hit multiple enemies instead of a single. Combine that with a Daibo that doesn’t actually suck and now you’re talking about a build that leans towards a couple themed skills but doesnt lock you in.

    Just seems like they missed the mark with all the mainstat + random properties on hard to find items that you need to collect as a set in a no-trade system. Like they built them as individual pieces rather than considering what could assemble into a complimentary themed package that’s worth using.

  10. I think you need a little bit of both ways. The randomness is important, yes, but people also need some certainty somewhere. Right now, the RNG never ends – there’s no bottom. It’s like a Russian doll and there’s always another layer of RNG waiting to come along and pee in your coffee. In D2, unique items and runewords were much less subject to RNG, even though the really good stuff was extremely hard to get without trading. But the odds in D3 are still pretty low for items to drop considering they’re also able to roll so badly.

    People talk about hitting the gear wall because all your stuff is so good and you’re so powerful, that there are no upgrades… but for many of us that’s not what the gear wall looks like. For me it looks more like “Well I can now run T1, but not T2, and in order to be able to run T2 I’m looking at another month (or more?) of farming with this one character only,” based on the speed of upgrading thus far. To me, that is a bit much and my attention span isn’t likely to keep up with it.

  11. Stop it. It’s Diablo. We’re getting soft over time because social media is an easy outlet for people to cry, and the more inter-connected we are, the more we become jaded on what’s in front of us, and that is a game which was FOUNDED on RNG, it’s part of the addiction.

    (•_•)
    ( •_•)>??-?
    (??_?) Deal with it.

    • Yeah. But only part. And the reason we’re having this talk here is ,that RNG isn’t balanced out by systems of equal weight and quality.

  12. I think the best answer to the problem would be to quickly design new legendary properties for the legendaries that don’t have anything special about them. These don’t even really have to be the orange special properties that change the way you play; even special properties like Sledge Fist’s 30-50% chance to stun on hit are good to have. Most of the complaints here so far are people complaining about finding legendaries without affixes, so if they became special and interesting, it would probably alleviate most of the problem.

    The second problem, which I personally feel is less of an issue, is the random rolls on legendaries. I personally feel that this was tightened up significantly, and doesn’t need to be changed. I still find legendaries that have crappy rolls, but most of those are legendaries with no special properties, which are usually automatically inferior to legendaries with special properties. Considering that some special properties are strong enough to use even if the legendary rolled badly, I feel that if all of the legendaries had something special about them, then the bad rolls would feel less bad, since if the ability was something you wanted, you still might be able to use the item anyway. I know that right now I’m using a lvl 60 Cindercoat, simply because I’m a fire Wizard and the fire damage roll, coupled with the fire skill cost reduction, makes it more powerful than running a regular vl 70 chestpiece.

    Finally, I think it would be a good idea to change the modifiers on gems. At the moment, gem affixes are kind of broken. Everyone uses only Emeralds in their weapons due to the huge CD bonus. Helms often do not use sockets at all, since life% is less useful (outside of HC), while the others are all passive bonuses that don’t affect stats in any way: ruby is extra XP, emerald is extra gold, and topaz is magic find, which was nerfed into oblivion and is therefore a bad choice no matter what. Of all the gems, the only gem that is well designed right now is the diamond. I think its fine to keep the general idea of gems the same (weapon gem is offensive, helm gem is defensive, other gems are stat boosts), but the actual bonuses need to change. I think it would be good if emerald were changed away from CD, and all of the other ones were updated to have more useful bonuses than they currently do.

    • I think you are absolutely correct. For the most part Legendaries are still not really legendary except for a few. I have a 60 level Wand of Woh and play with that almost exclusively. Its a 60 level weapon with 1200 or so dps and I still use it and fly thru T2 anything.It’s really legendary. Can you think of any other weapon you could do that with? I can’t.

      So the problem for me is their legs, this was supposed to be fixed, are not so legendary but just another word for rares. I want a WOh level 70, that is all I try for with shards etc, and it would be great to increase my chance to get wands. So I would support a rune that you could craft or find that would allow and increase in wand chances. Something like that.

  13. progression wall, that’s the real problem here imo. leave RNG as is, add alternative ways to progress. yeah paragon is nice and all but the upgrades it gives are too minor to be enough of a carrot.

    how about… item upgrades? you farm something to permanently increase a stat on your item. or something you can attach to your items and add new bonuses.

    whatever it is though it needs to be farmable with NO RNG involved. we’ve got enough RNG. something you farm slowly but surely. for example, you get an empty soulstone or whatever and you need to fill it with 200 elite pack boss essences – the filled up soulstone is then given to myriam to upgrade dmg on your weapon (up to say 90% of maximum rollable dmg – so you can fix an unlucky roll but not create perfect items).

  14. Being a player that can barely stand even an hour diablo 3 daily as it stands right now I myself think that it needs a lot of changing.

    First on my list would be a higher set of static affixes. Nothing more frustrating to get the piece you wanted with a statroll for another class and that on a setitem.

    Without more static affixes I think it is fine to have certain bosses / enemies drop certain legendaries. Why? Because even if you craft something it takes often 10 tries or more to get just the things you wanted and it would undoubtly be the same for (rift)bosses.

    Also we got 5 acts, why can we not have a better chance at certain items in certain acts? Act 1 Helmet and amulette. Act 2 chest and shoulder. Act 3 gloves and armguard. Act 4 Pants and shoes. Act 5 class specific weapon/shield and rings.
    At the same time none class specific weapons would be seeded throughout the acts counteracting the chance to make it more \rng’ish\ again.

    This could be linked to tilesets.
    Imagine you comming into a rift and not being like \ugh act 5 tileset the enemy density sucks.\ but instead being more like \oh man, I hope I get a class specific weapon here.\.

    I also feel that if it took more souls to reroll / craft even bad legendaries would have more worth. With that change I would even quadruple the bloodshards from a riftboss and remove the soul drops. That way you have more chance to gamble what you want and even if you do not get it you at least have your lost soul replacement.

    I also feel it would be nice to have set items be detached from legendary loottables. I feel it would be nice to be able to find setitems of all classes but with 2/3 of them being more likely to be for your class.
    Give it another pitty timer if you will, not like blackthorne will never crush the parade.

    It could raise your interest in another character if you just by chance manage to aquire several pieces. It would not stop you from finding several of the same item. It would make it feel less like a waste to not play your main because you could stil get a setitem… but this all would be senseless aswell without statis affixes.

    I could probably go on and on but finding the right ballance in suggestions between too good and decent is hard so I will leave it at these. Now excuse me while I enjoy another game waiting for 2.0.5.

  15. I agree with several of the above posts. It isn’t the amount of leg items. It is the fact they almost all legs in all slots are inferior to a good rares, with or without the Mystic being involved. Blizz said legs would be build changing, really, which ones?

    The comparison to D2 is spot on. I never found all I wanted in D2, not even close. But I found enough loot to feel OP in once in awhile on the highest difficulty. Because a good portion of all legs in D2 had unique and useful properties. D3 isn’t in that position with its Leg items, not even close, imho.

    It is possible in D3 but for probably 5-15x the amount of time to get there, compared to D2, that is insane. D2 was slow enough.

    Legs needs amazing stats, that drop more D2 like. Some properties a given, and some not, right now you could find any BIS item, only to have to salvage it due to a crappy role, or not fitting your character with more than one property needing to be changed. Just wrong and stupid wrong imho.

    However I do believe Blizz will do the right thing, they have listened somewhat. ROS is alot better than D3v. The only question is just how long we have to wait. Meanwhile there are other games out there for people to play.

  16. Seriously I started to hate this game when I’ve been keeping playing for ages and still not able to find the 3rd piece of earthquake set. I’m not getting tired, but start hating the game more and more. My temper became uncontrollable. I beat my girlfriend. Blaming my boss. My girlfriend left me and I lost my job.

    So I asked myself, hey Tom, will you just quit the game like a dog and start anew? No. I need to stay. Since the game is pissing me off, I’ll piss other people off so that I’ll be satisfied. A good way is joining in public games and do all sort of annoy things. Closing rifts. AFK. Cursing Blizzard. Other than actually playing the game, I’m on everything.

    Now I’m a much happier person. I found a new job with higher salary. I started to make gay friends since that makes me happier. I enjoy the sunshine while doing AFK in Diablo 3. And most importantly, I have 10+ rings of royal grandeur in my stash, for every characters I have.

    Thank you God! I knew life is supposed to be happy for everyone. BTW I quit hearthstone too because that game was even shittier than D3.

  17. I put 6000 hours into D2 and never got a Windforce. I don’t regret the time I put in, but I also knew that a Windforce would be a game-changer if it did drop. The difference is, it was guaranteed to be good.

    I don’t understand why Blizzard thinks we want quantity over quality. I would rather have a legendary drop every two weeks than be flooded with below average soon-to-be-forgotten-souls.

  18. If I had to summarize this game in a single sentence it’d be “I have no bloody control over what happens on this screen!”

    From the well known crowd control spam only counterable in a realistic fashion by a handful of specific items you can’t specifically hunt for, to the few items that aren’t rares or “rares” being more accurately defined as “build unlocking” than “build enabling” – that is to say, you can’t play the character you want without specific items that make it function, and again you cannot specifically seek those out. And then there’s the One True Wayism, removing control on how you play your character.

    All of which means you can’t play the character you want until the RNG imfamous for trolling everyone all the time stops trolling you, and if/when you actually can go for your desired character build the game effectively ends because there’s nothing to actually do with the loot once you find it.

    If Diablo 3 was a woman, she’d be happy to sleep with you then throw you out as soon as the clothes are off and the lights will soon follow.

  19. I could forgive RNG if all legendary items were useful.

    1) Remove CHD as an affix and from emeralds, this makes reliance on sockets for weapons less (assuming balancing weapon stats properly) and can focus on AS/CDR/Crushing Blow builds as well as crit.

    2) Make legendary items which do not have a special affix roll 5/2 with an affix which they cannot normally roll (AS on helms, bracers, etc.).

  20. Yet again we hit drop problem. D3 has became single player game without any trading, now after some time playing we get some legs, set items but what are we supposed to do after we got them? Best thing in games is trading for better items, that’s mainly why in D2 despite never seeing HR drop ( played 5-6 ladders in total ) I was able to get BiS items after selling other drops. Now in D3 we can basically only melt drops, there is no purpose in the game.

  21. I dont mind the RNG system the way it is now but i would love to see new impementations to the game such as:

    – Runes (As in D2 or in D3V Alpha where D3 had runes for spells)
    – End Game Activities (or revitalize the Rift system)
    – Moar viable Sets and Legs
    – Make 2h viable

  22. Implement trading, thanks.

  23. I’d like to see some “RNG altar” (Cain’s altar?) where you give gold, gems, death breath or forgotten souls to some affixes and item type to increase their chances of being dropped.

  24. Like every post i mention, If you take something (trade) away, please make sure compensation is enough. I m not believe in RNG.

    Yes RNG is RNG please included this in ROS advertisement and explain RNG is RNG in annual result announcement

  25. In D2 you were selecting items, depending on what build you were running. D3 (starting from 2.0) goes with selecting skills, depending on what items did you find. If you’re pursuing dream-item, good luck with that 😛 Adapt to RNG and game is way funnier.

    “should D3 offer some long term building up type items?”
    Yes, please. It could work more or less like crafting done by Mystic (white item + few D2-rune-like items).

  26. Targeting specific legendaries is not really realistic when random is involved and there is no trading system. In D2 many people like me spent 10 years+ playing the game and straight up NEVER saw certain uniques/runes drop but because there was trading it mitigated never seeing certain items, because you could work your way towards them slowly but surely.

    I do agree there should NEVER be a way to target a specific item to DROP in a game that is based around randomness. What may help some people is if they are constantly disappointed by the item they want not dropping, is if the other items that dropped in their place were not instantly scrapped at the blacksmith and weren’t instantly seen as rubbish.

    In D2 you could spend your time doing boss runs knowing that generally you would find an item that you could at least trade for something else or in part for the item you want. There was a greater reward knowing you found an item with a decent roll, even if you didn’t need it cause you could trade it off for something that would help you work towards the item you sought.

    I have enjoyed D3 a hell of a lot more since RoS came out and it’s just my opinion but it doesn’t feel right without some proper form of trading. I also wouldn’t want it back in the form of the auction house, I’d rather interact with a player directly. On the other hand I don’t want the market saturated by bots and farmers if there were to be trading again. How you find the sweet spot between the two I really have no idea and fair play to Blizzard if they can ever figure this out…and I really do hope they can.

  27. I don’t like some drop rates – the 1%ers – but I can live with most of them. My issue is with the potential trash, like my +1 MM mirrorball or the tal ammy sitting on my stash. 52 CD (could be 51…), no CC…

    Imo, all of them should have int(~100), CC (8-10), CD (80-100), random roll. That way, a elemental damage good tal ammy would be more viable and an IAS elemental tal ammy for niche builds would be a prize (since you would have to get the elemental damage or IAS on the random roll).

    With the current system you have 1% of chance (sometimes lower) to get a piece of garbage. That’s the problem, imo.

    I could live with either higher drop rates or less “X random properties”/crazy ranges, because with the current system you need to find a bunch of things to get what you want the way you want. If you like to play alternates like I do, well… I probably won’t finish properly before the next xpack, with the current drop rates 🙂

  28. There should be better fishing holes where people can go to farm particular items they want.

  29. In psychology, learned behavior can occur in four different ways.

    There are two aspects to rewards versus behavior. The first aspect is whether it’s based off time, or whether it’s based off an action that you must perform. The second aspect is whether it’s a steady thing, or whether it’s random.

    This leads to four combinations: Steady time, steady action, random time, random action.

    Steady time means you get a reward every X amount of time whether you’ve ‘earned’ it or not. This behavior is easy to learn/notice happening, but moderately easy to forget. When it stops happening, you may expect it again once or twice but then you figure it’s not going to happen again and move on.

    Steady action means every X time you do something, you get a reward. (Could be every time, every 3rd time, every 10th time, etc.) This behavior is a little bit harder to pick up, it usually takes a few ‘rewards’ to happen until you learn that your behavior is causing it. It’s also easy to forget, because the moment you stop getting rewards, it’s no longer worth it to do the behavior.

    Random time means that you get X pretty much randomly no matter what you do to earn it. This behavior is extremely hard to learn as there isn’t much to ‘learn’ about it, it’s just something that’s going to happen regardless of what you do. You have very little input to make anything change. However, once learned, it’s a hard one to forget, because due to the random nature of it, you always are left wondering “If I wait just a little longer, then maybe…” Even if it will never happen again. There’s an aspect of ‘random time’ in Diablo 3, which is the ‘one legendary per hour’ thing that they have that if a leg hasn’t dropped in a certain period of time your chances increase.

    And finally we come to random action. This means that every time you do X, there is a random chance of getting a reward. This is the hardest behavior to pick up, but once learned, it’s the hardest (near impossible) to forget. It’s the gamble. You keep doing X hoping that Y will happen. Sometimes it does. Even if it almost never does, you keep doing it and you keep hoping. This can be applied to many things in life, but staying on topic, it applies to random drops. This guy keeps farming and keeps farming and keeps farming and he still doesn’t have a class specific set. Even with help from others giving them their drops, he still doesn’t.

    But it’s basically formed to be an addiction. You know that you won’t get it unless you perform X (it’s not time-based, so you have to ‘earn’ it) but the game essentially doesn’t ever have to reward you unless it randomly feels like it.

    If you picked a person and disabled legs dropping for that person, how long would they play, hoping that a leg would drop? Probably quite a lot longer than you expect. They’d keep telling themselves “well it’s just a dry spell” and keep playing for a while, not knowing that they’re never going to get one ever until you flick the switch back on again.

    This is essentially what Diablo 3 item drops do. You may never get it, but it’s weighted to make you want it and to keep playing for it. It’s a literal slot machine. You may win, some people do, but everyone who plays spends the majority of their time losing and calling it fun.

    The point is, having an RNG-based game without the ability to trade kills it. There’s no way to earn anything over time, it’s ONLY earning things randomly. In Diablo 2, you can lump all your small wins together and trade for a big win, in Diablo 3, all your small wins are trash and only if you ever get a big win do you progress.

    In spite of all the consequences of botting or whatever, having an auction house was actually a good thing. The problem was the lack of bind on equip caused some good items to float around forever and the vast majority of items weren’t ‘good items’ in comparison.

    The other half of it is the point made by this guy farming class sets…at what point does it stop being fun?

    While there’s no ‘guarantee’ of getting the set you want, you can definitely increase the chances of it until it’s more likely to happen in 1 hour than in 1 year. Slithering away from the point being made to act like a guarantee is being asked for is dodging the issue.

    If it’s so rare that the average person (key point there) can’t get a set in a month, that’s /too/ rare, in my opinion. And this guy is farming for hours straight…he’s not an ‘average’ person.

    So again, nobody’s asking for a guarantee, but if all the ‘fun’ stuff never drops, then there’s never any fun…

  30. The original D3 actually doesn’t offer too many hours of original game time for the initial playthough (and frankly RoS doesn’t add much to that either). This shouldn’t matter much through, as the series’ strength lies in it’s replayability through randomization. The thing is that for D3, they completely botched the randomization part:

    They didn’t produce anywhere near enough content to be randomly used by the game; in fact you’ll already see/hear content repetition during your very first playthrough. Blizzard were of course aware of that when they tossed the game out on the market und thought they’d get away by adding a disporportionally huge chunk of ‘cheap randomization’ through random numeric values, mostly on items. However, not only did that shortcut not work as the replacement it was intended to be, it just made players unhappy by design.

    The hyper-randomization you see on D3’s reward system (gear) is in place in order to inflate a game with 15 hours worth of content into a virtually endless grind without the need for huge amounts of pre-produced content or perpetual content updates. With legendary items, after much back and forth, turning out to be the one and only end-game reward concept in the game by now, do any of those really need a 0.% drop rate for your 1 drop/hour chance AND randomized affixes AND randomized values in such a short-lived game?

    They do! Or at least they did, from Blizzard’s perspective, when the AH money scheme was still active in the game and required a diverse economy which seemed vastly superior in importance to them over the individual gameplay experience. The AH may be gone for now, but with the absurd numeric value randomization still in place, I wouldn’t act too suprised if Blizzard happened to have a replacement money scheme ready as soon as players start getting vocal about exactly this situation.

    (Also, alongside the special properties and increased stats, it was actually their rather static design which made Uniques feel worthwhile in all the item randomization madness of previous entries in the series.)

  31. It seems to me. that the whole “you find more loot for a specific character you are using, is false. i cannot tell you how many crusader and demon hunter items ive been finding as a wizard. i havnt found one of the 2 wands that are torment only. i find swords and shields that ive found at level 12, that are level 70. which isnt all bad. But when i play my wizard id like to use wizard things. and also. some items are account bound right when you pick them up. mainly craft materials. alot of people ive played with need them just as badly as i do. and we cant trade. so theres that. the auction house was good at first but that, it had its weakness. hacks and theft. maybe somewhere in the game we can go to trade things specifically. not buy or or bid. just trade, for those who have too many of an item and would like something new, theirs always someone looking to trade.

  32. What they need to do is dynamically change the drop chances of each tier according to the difficulty. Essentially at Torment 1 the rare “1/2” legendary has as much chance to drop as common legendaries and the extremely rare “1/10” becomes the rare “1/2”, while on Torment 6 every legendaries have an equal chance to drop, if a legendary wand drops the chances to roll a Wand of Woh or Chantodo’s Will are equal.

  33. \And then we doubled it\, I dont see too many improvements concerning loot in the expansion. Most of the legendaries are crap, set items have such low drop chance and if one drops, theres a high chance it has crappy stats.Theres also little to no motiviation to do higher torments. In addition the whole crafting system is broke imo, crafted items should at least have 3 fixed stats and 3 random stats.
    I also expected tiered legendaries, for example item xy has 700 main stat in T1 and 1000 main stat if it drops in T6. I mean it should basically be the same system as in WOW where heroic mode items have higher stats. I dont know what keeps Blizz doin the same in D3. Sorry for my bad english!

  34. I agree that there is so much RNG in the system that it feels more like Vegas than a role playing game. And like Vegas the house always seems to win.

    This system I am going to point out wouldn’t work here, and D3 already has something *somewhat* similar in Gems, but FF7’s Materia system is a good indication of how to reward players for time and progression. It’s similar in concept to rune words. I also believe that having the ability for Materia to gain levels, split when mastered, combine with others for interesting effects, etc is what made the combat system in FF7 so good, and one of the reasons why FF7 was so loved. It neatly fit into the story (which was really good)

    I did some math recently on Gambling based on some well known gambling stat result forums, that for me to get the Fist of Az’Turrasq @250 shards a night doing i suppose \casual\ T5 rift runs with freinds, that it would be realistic to expect it to take 5-6.5 YEARS to get enough legendary 1H Fist drops to get possibly 3-5 Fists so that 1 would be re-rollable and usable. I understand that it could be tomorrow, or from another source. But I can tell you in 2ish months and likely 100 hours since RoS hit, I have 1 lvl 60 innas set chest (dropped first day of 2.04 >:( ) and I have managed only 2 peices of blackthorns and about 12 Compass Roses. I’ve gotten a few interesting legendaries, I’m T4 capable, 6 in a group, but I’m rediculously far away from having any hope of getting what i would like to try out.

    I hated the Auction House. But at least there I could control what I got to a degree…

    I would like to see a way where things that i would want to have, I could spend some time in areas, difficulties, events that would give me an increased way to get said item, set, etc.

  35. @ChimpMagnet:
    Never in a hijillion years. Take a look back at all those changes they’ve made to the loot system. Pretty much all of them always affected the frequency of drops, almost none of them allowed the manipulation of (affix) quality in any way.

    Yes, Torment difficulty adds high-end legendaries to the pool and increases the chance for legendaries to drop, yet still, this is all just drop frequency related. And the more slots/entries per slot you can roll, the lower the chance of getting a specific one (in case that chance has not yet been lowered otherwise towards impossibility).

    Doesn’t more loot bring more high quality loot with it? Of course it does, yet here we are, unhappy how even 10% increased legendary drop chance increases your chance to get the highest-quality ones by almost nothing (mind: it’s actually well below 1% drop chance for, say, a Witching Hour to drop WITHIN the 1:~30 chance of the belt slot being selected to drop, WITHIN the 85% smart loot chance WITHIN the legendary item drop chance which occurs roughly once per active playtime hour at Blizzard’s intended base rate).

    Smart loot is actually one of the very few mechanics that influence item drop quality. Still, it doesn’t ramp up with difficulty and the fact that even Blizzard decided to set it to a very high 85% global trigger chance in favor to the player, speaks volumes about at what disadvantageous rate the hyper-randomized loot system works against the player.

    • Maybe you didn’t understood my point, if your chances of getting a “1/2” leg increased with difficulty from hard until it hit “1/1” on T1 and same thing with “1/10” leg where they are at “1/2” on T1 and “1/1” on T6 you minimized or removed the impossibility of getting the good legs, and the burden of random stats and affixes once you do get one.

      Wouldn’t you rather have the chance of getting a Witching Hour increased when a leg belt drop the higher the difficulty rather than having a WoW-esque precrafted Witching Hour made up in the rare case one drops it has to be good, or a targeted drop for specific slot and farmed the same content add nauseum like D2?

      Sure legs have issues with lack of legendary affixes, if they have one at all, diversity and originality, but this is a thread about being inundated by the same crap legendaries and scarsity of tier 2 and 3 legendaries which is starting to frustrate a lot of people. I think my solution is simple and elegant, as it solves the problem without creating new ones or ruining the item game.

  36. Sad yet hilarious. Oh, Diablo 3…

  37. I’ve never been one to subscribe to an RNG conspiracy theory… but here are some mere facts;

    385 hours on barb exclusively since RoS.
    Needing 1 more POTE for 3 weeks to start leapquaking (RoRG, Lut, 2 POTE)
    bump my 2nd barb from 60-70
    The third legendary that dropped at 70 was the POTE I needed.

  38. Hah fine conspiracy theory indeed.

    Look. We all know the Might of the Earth Leapquake set is extremely powerful, and with it most barbs achieve endgame. How many items do you need for this? ONLY 3 (4including lutsocks).
    Now I got pants that was gifted to me the first weekend of RoS. Two weeks after that I got the Helm from Maghda at T2.

    NOW better part of 200 hours later… nothing.

    I have many many clan members (im not in d3inc) but other big clan, who many of them have played barb only a little and yet they are also sitting on 2 pieces.

    Whats the easiest way for Blizzard to halt an epidemic of leapquaking barbs tearing s***t up, or leaving the game because god forbid they are happy.

    RESTRICT THAT THIRD DROP ARTIFICIALLY.

    Maybe I will follow your advice good sir, and create teh female barbie, she apparently leaps better as well 🙁

  39. While trading with random people could be nice in certain situations I guess, I really generally only play with the same two friends, and we are constantly lamenting the fact that everything worth sharing with each other (crafting mats, high tier gems, etc)is account bound. I want to be able to help out/be helped out by my friends. So more than anything else, some sort of trading is really what I want.
    While I know they closed down the auction house, the reason they closed the auction house was because people hated it. And while there are always going to be people who take advantage of something if possible, I still think there needs to be a trading system in place.

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