Diablo 3 Podcast #110: Diablo 3 Console Loot 1.5 Debate


Flux is joined by Azzure and Xanth to discuss the updated, upgraded, Loot 1.5 system found on the console. Does it fix problems in D3C’s loot system? Is it supposed to? What will the real Loot 2.0 bring?

This show follows up on TDP #109 which discussed all things DiabloWikiDiablo 3 console and focused heavily on issues of itemization. You need not listen to that show before this one, but it would give you some useful background info if you’ve not been paying much attention to the Diablo 3 console “Loot 1.5” debate.

  • 0:00 — Intro and console loot details. Console Paragon 4 Witch Doctor = 125k DPS and 95K HPs, and has found 50+ legendaries. D3 console legendaries are too big, too easy, too soon?
  • 3:45 — Console is not Loot 1.5. It’s just Loot 1.0 with bigger numbers. The same item issues exist, with almost all value on the same key affixes. Does this fix any of the problems with Diablo III’s economy? Azzure says no.
  • 8:00 — Proc effects on items. Can they move beyond novelties to real “build-changers?”
  • 14:00 — Rune effects stole all the potentially awesome legendary item effects in D3C. Is it wise to require players to use a specific item as the only way to get one cool effect?
  • 18:00 — Must the important affixes be reworked to allow more variety? Find ways to make some builds not care about IAS, or care less about CC, etc. How to make skills not all entirely dependent upon weapon damage?
  • 23:00 — Raising the floor on item quality is not a long term solution for the end game quality, but it’s a really good short term boost and it makes the game more fun for casuals.
  • 27:00 — Counter to some fan speculation, the PC version is not a beta test for the console… However, the console actually kind of is a beta test for DiabloWikiLoot 2.0?

The Diablo 3 Podcast Episode Guide in DiabloWiki.net provides download links to every show, plus quick summaries.

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  1. I’m glad that Azzure made the point in the end that the console also has to take into effect that there is no AH. I think that, yes, consoles need to reward their players a little faster because the attention span for games is a little shorter, so the rate of “completion” or feeling of finishing the game needs to arrive a little sooner than maybe what a PC gamer might expect, but I would hate if we attributed the console reward system solely to satisfying the “casual” experience. I think seasoned veterans of Diablo 3 can find something to enjoy in the console version without it boiling down to a casual experience; I think it’s the rate of reward that many people who have problems with the AH have been looking for. This is the droprate that sustains longer play sessions because you can realistically believe that clearing one more zone will result in two to three more Legendaries that could be upgrades and make you feel like you justified staying up just that little longer.

    We need something that perpetuates that “one more game” addiction that we used to find with the boss runs in D2. I think the leaks of all the new game modes in RoS are a step in that exact direction and that combined with a moderate increase in being able to find your own Legendaries and gear rather than having a heavy reliance on the AH will make the experience on the PC far more rewarding and closer to what gamers are reveling in on the console currently. It is evident that the console isn’t solving itemization, but what it currently IS doing is allowing people to experience what it is to play this game from a completely self-found perspective and not be frustrated by thoughts of “How much more doable would this be without droprates affected by the existence of an AH?”

    I have comments on builds and itemization, too, but I’ll save that for another not so long comment. 🙂

    • The console version is also much harder (Normal->Master I is like 1.0 Inferno with shitty gear).

      “Console is not Loot 1.5. It’s just Loot 1.0 with bigger numbers.”

      Of course it is. Do you think that Loot 2.0 will be something revolutionary? Just bigger numbers. Or you think they will fix the broken core of the game? Forget it, it’s Blizzard.

  2. Hey Flux,

    I would like to contribute my thoughts to your podcast for a wide range of topics, I don’t know where to contact you so writing it here.

  3. It is definitely a problem that developers steer to far into the whole casual friendly method. It completely sucks the life out of games for the long term in my opinion.

  4. WHERE IS THE MOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

  5. Azure is right. Like I predicted from the beginning higher level items have bigger numbers but not different numbers. If an item lacks core key stats, and they don’t spawn randomly (aka, Skorn with ls, Mempo with crit) it’s worthless.

    People aren’t caring at first because they have nothing better, that will soon change if it hasn’t already, probably why console interest is already dying off.

  6. The problem with the loot is not that items are not “build changing” or meaningful, it’s that they roll within too many affixes ranks. Per example in Inferno you can get a ilvl63 item roll Hell ranks; an item rolls from 40 strength to 200, this is not good within a nrg game where you can roll up to 6 affixes on an item. This is why they did legendary 2.0 back then and increased the stats and reworked them to have only 1 or 2 random affixes to compensate for finding nothing, because items roll within TOO MANY RANKS.

    Even if they made the loot meaningful, you could still be playing for hundreds of hours without even seeing one item that’s close to the top end of the gear curve, and don’t even think about BiS because that ain’t happening soon.

  7. Someone should tie someone to a chair and force someone to listen to this until it stuck..
    (Did that make sense? It did in my head… 🙂 )

  8. The only ways to keep loot rewarding long term is to continually raise the ceiling on item quality, or periodically reset the economy. D2 did econ resets, mmorpg release new content with new better items. D3 has improved item quality a few times since release to prolong the feeling that you can farm upgrades.

    Binding items can slow thingz down more and increase the time it takes for all drops to feel worthless, but it won’t cure it. There will always come a point in diablo games where it feels pointless to continue farming and all found gear seems terrible. It just varies from person to person when this occurs. At least withthe ah we have a mechanism to convert items to currency easily and vice versa. That ability has prolonged the life of d3for me. In d2, I quit much faster because trading was so terrible, so I played til I had filled mules and became annoyed enough managing them and quit.

    • I guess what I am trying to say iis that the items themselves don’t really matter. People think that if you put a bunch of weird affixes on uniques, the game gets better. It makes gearing more complex, but it won’t make drops feel more worthwhile long term.

      Adding new gear for specific builds just means you may collect more gear for each class to be able to try everything. So you have a pets build set for dh, a rapid fire set, a dual wield strafe set, etc.

      I’d much rather they make the underused skills much better and balance there. Or fix the way skills interact with the damage system to make all skills viable within a few mp levels.

  9. I haven’t reached 60 yet on console. About 55 on one character. Have 2 more in the 20’s.

    I could give a rats ass about the numbers. I got out of act 1 on normal with 2 legendaries and yes they were upgrades. The drop rate is thrilling and makes the game fun AND rewarding to play. I’ve also found the same legendary as I leveled and it was an upgrade both times.

    Is there a ceiling and will we hit it sooner than PC players? Of course there is. And that will be the next challenge the devs have to face.

    I’ve watched one streamer who after 6 or 7 days of playing (quite a few hours per day) was already able to solo UBERS on Masters V (MP10). That is fairly laughable. They are going to have to do something to balance it. Most likely they will need to make the master levels even harder. Or they just need to focus on some modes that scale to our gear. (endless dungeon or whatever)

    One problem is that they’ve tied mp level to better drop rates. Pretty much makes everyone feel they need to play on max monster level for something like UBERS as it guarantees drop. Which in turn generates the forum posts of its too hard, which gets them to increase drop rate, which gets us there faster, and yahoo we are stuck with game being too easy again. That said, the drop rates on console are perfect. Now they need to balance it somehow.

    Next issue…Please stop worrying about the damn economy. I never played D1 or D2 for the economy. Azure is fixated on this. If you are worried about the economy, you will never ever ever enjoy this game. Its worrying about the economy that got us into the loot mess in the first place. As long as the devs cared about what drop rates and gear roll ranges could do to the economy, we were never going to get a fun game to actually play. Diablo series is supposed to be about finding loot. In my eyes, this should be about finding stuff out in the adventuring world. D2 economy was an accident and yet it still became broken did it not? only ladder resets could save it. Perhaps ladder play will fix this in D3 too for those that actually care about it. On console, the dev’s didn’t have to worry about an AH and what do you know, we got a game that is actually fun to play. It would appear that loot 2.0 is throwing the AH under the bus, which is what we really need.

  10. People should stop pretending that itemization was much more diversified in D2. I haven’t played that game in a long time, but from what I remember, Shako + HotO + Spirit + Enigma + SoJ + SoJ was the standard gear of about half the classes and builds out there? And people only put points into Vit?

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