Demon Hunter Changes Incoming

Loquenahak spotted on the official Italian forums a post from Zhydaris which could well be music to the ears of Demon Hunter fans whose passion had somewhat dampened since watching beta gameplay footage.

We are radically changing the resources management for the DiabloWikiDemon Hunter, including changes to unlocking skills, resources management and more.

The unlocking of skills could well mean the order in which you gain access to them. During the beta there have been grumbles that the skills available to the Demon Hunter early on aren’t as effective as those available to other classes so they could be re-evaluating what she gets access to during those early levels.

I wonder if the runestone effects may be altered at all. I admit to being unsure about ‘Arsenal’ – adding an Obsidian rune to DiabloWikiMultishot means every use also fires 10 rockets at nearby enemies that deal 150% weapon damage each. Rockets?

She had been up there as first character for me, pre beta, but I’m rather nonplussed by her now so I’m not going to have a knee-jerk reaction to this news but I’m sure there are some of you will want her left well alone.

You can see all her current skills with stats in the Demon Hunter Skills page on DiabloWiki.Net.

Tagged As: | Categories: Demon Hunter, Diablo 3 Beta, Resources, Skills


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  1. You might want to put the quote in BlueQuote-o-matic. It draws attention to it 🙂

  2. i spent 4 h + on my DH builds

    • Well, it’s beta for a reason. And you don’t even know about item modificators and all the formula for damage etc.
      I wonder if they now come up with something they have never tried before, or with some old idea they never showed us. One should think they had enough time to at least get a ressource system that works well enough to be ut in the final game.

  3. I read “bullets” somewhere on the skill calculator too…
    No guns though!

  4. i’m kinda happy about the change the dual resource was a good idea however i feel it just didn’t look to work out so well in gameplay video’s and made people have to pay attention to 2 resources instead of 1. Also hopefully this will reduce elitist morons saying oh the DH is the hardest class to play cuz of 2 resources

    • > happy about the change
      > the dual resource was a good idea

      Blizzard did not answer to my question about dual resource system staying… or going away. I hope they will give us more details.

  5. God forbid there will ever be guns in diablo!

  6. I still think 2 resources might work, and it is a different flavour, but I dont think I saw anyone using the Discipline skills in the videos… maybe cuz it is too easy?

    • im my eyes disc skills arent used because:
      caltrops: weak in general??
      vault: no need to flee from fight because very easy + u dont have the hotkey space to use it
      marked for death: without runes its not AoE. the only boss on which it would be cost/time effective is skeleton king i guess
      smoke screen: same as vault. + runes for it make a big difference: check skill calc

      the others arent in the beta

      • I don’t really think you can base the usefulness of vault and marked for death like this only on the beta.. “no need to flee from fight because very easy” Well, it’s just the very easy first part of act1, normal. Who knows how the rest of the game is going to be? Might be even more necessary for hardcore characters too.
        Same probably goes for the skeleton king, I bet there will be plenty of good uses for marked for death later in the game.

  7. Maybe they’ll change the whole theme of the character. Give it some appeal to those who don’t wear skinny jeans and are licensed to drive a vehicle.

  8. My guess is that the changes are already finished in an internal build. 

    Regardless I wouldn’t  put too much into what a foreign CM is saying.

  9. 2 resources is awsum for the DH imo, it brings more flavor and tactics. Only skill Ive seen sofar that ppl tend to use in the Beta that draws discepline is vault

  10. This seems like a clear sign of beta…

  11. a “radical” character change at this stage is a bad sign, imo… i smell a shipping delay

    here’s hoping they have a backup DH resource system on the cutting room floor that they can fall back on, so they don’t have to rework the thing from scratch.

  12. I cant see how DH skillgian at this point is underpowered, maybe the ones saying that don´t know how to play teh class? from what I´ve seena nd the skills that are available its not so bad at all.

    Wizard seems to be the class that have more powerful skills early on if you want to compare or Monk but they are play so differently, there will always be a rock paper scissor part of it, and I do think that when you can master the playstyle of the DH when you gain the skills in this order as you do now its no problem at all.

    Im more concirned for the Witchdoctor at early play then I am for Demon Hunter.

  13. I’ve read a lot of people think the demon hunter needs work…. this sounds good to me…

  14. I’m betting that they aren’t going to do something as drastic as change the DH’s whole resource system. The Blue post said “resource MANAGEMENT“, which could very well just mean they are balancing resource costs for abilities…If it is true that Vault is the only skill they have in the beta that costs Discipline then maybe they realized that is a bad thing, and are moving the levels you get some abilities around to allow for better distribution of Discipline-fueled abilities.

    • Vault is not the only discipline skill in the beta: you get Caltrops at level 1, Marked for Death at level 8, Smoke Screen at level 12. I have seen many people using Caltrops and Marked for Death, Smoke Screen is not very useful in the beta. Also, Evasive Fire uses discipline if the backflip activates.

  15. Honestly i don’t know why there are rockets for the DH… if she’s supposed to be using a bit of demonic power then why not making them ‘shadow bolts’ or something. rockets just do not fit the flavor of diablo.

  16. Hopefully grenades/traps/chakram/etc do weapon damage. That seems like a silly oversight. Also, maybe a barrier trap (like Bone Wall) or other geometry denial. Hatred/Discipline is fine, but she needs a few more ways to convert one to the other, or maybe some more interesting ways to spend Discipline.

  17. Now I’m 100% sure I want to start with the Demon Hunter. it will do the same thing as my Shadow priest. At first nobody was using them, priests were basically healers only (I’m talking vanilla WoW). But then they patched it and they became super powerful. The DH is the last class they announced and it probably still need a lot of work. In a few months this will be “OP class” when they’ll patch it again, and then each class will get its OP time, until the end of time.

  18. I noticed Elly refers to the Demon Hunter as ‘her’.
    I think most of the community sees the different classes as a certain gender along the same lines:
    Demon Hunter: Female
    Wizard: Female
    Barbarian: Male
    Witch Doctor: Male
    Monk: Either way?
    P.S. I tried to post this message as the first post of the day, and I got a ‘You’re posting too much, slow down’ error.

  19. Good point up there. No guns and rockets, and also less “grenades” or stuff like that. Give us more shadows, demon-blasts, and then on.

  20. Sorry flux, but I doubt the rockets are going anywhere… It sounds like they are mostly shuffling around the order in which she gets skills and adjusting resource regen rates or something… perhaps changing the resource management rune effects to give more or lowering the costs of abilities…

  21. there seems to be quite a few misworded things on the DH site.  I was the one who pointed out the whole “Guns” thing on the official forums.   I think rockets is probably just more poor choice of words.   When I think rockets,  I get the image of goblin rockets from Warcraft. 

    I’m willing to bet projectiles is a better word.

  22. Maybe rename rockets to missiles? or lasers? lol

  23. The DH also has to rune effects called “Backup Plan”. Might wanna fix that, along with all the clumsy or grammatically incorrect tooltip explanations (not just on the DH though); I mean English isn’t even my first language and I can see that…

  24. The problem with the early skills is that they are unreliable or require more skill to be used for AoE. Hungering Arrow 50% pierce is nice but not reliable for AoE, Entangling Shot is nice but only hits 2 targets (until we get Runestones of course), Fan of Knives is decent but doesn’t scale with weapon and you have to be in melee range, Bola Shot damage is delayed and small AoE usually ends up only hitting 1-2 targets, Grenades can be difficult to use, Chakram hits hard but doesn’t scale with weapon and can be difficult to hit things with.
    Also the early bow weapons seem to be on the weak side for skill damage: having low damage, fast attack speed is not good for all the skills based on weapon damage.

  25. Damnit. I thought the DH was fine.
    These stupid mouthbreathers who just slam their fingers down on the keyboards unable to play her are to blame.

  26. Next thing you know, we’ll have robots in D3.

  27. @Release date: Some people are reading way too much into such statements. I bet they will simplify the dual system and probably replace it with “plan B”, which they had developed long ago. They found the dual system cooler, but it didn’t work and so they have to ditch and replace it with system B. That’s all.

    • I wouldn’t be so sure, they’ve done radical stuff in previous betas (other games I know, but still).
      There’s a few constants, the DH will continue to be ranged based, most animations (not models) will stay and the voices will probably not be re-recorded. Most likely most of the rest won’t change either, but it’s on the table and I don’t think they’ll hesitate even a moment because someone might already be attached to the current state. They will lose most of that freedom once the game goes live, so they will want to make sure they have a solid base that only requires tweaks.

      • The Italian blue posts says that they will change the resource system and probaly move some skills around. The rest remains untouched. I’m pretty sure that this will be an older “plan B” with just one instead of two resources.

        • Too bad, having 2 resources was something really new… although i was hoping they’d interact, like when you use Hatred Discipline would go up, and Hatred’s regen rate would go down the more Discipline you had…

  28. Sounds good. I don’t like the idea of rockets either, but at least it’s an optional rune choice right?

  29. They are changing the whole game each week… this game is never gonna be released

    • It is kinda sad that they have decided to get feedback this late in the game from the masses (when they were hoping to release it before years end), but if it results in a better polished game, then so be it I say.

  30. I wonder how long they will take implementing the changes and then how long will the testing take on the changes. 2012 anyone ?

  31. So… no beta any time soon…final release date pushed even further likely 2012.
    I dunno any player who would go “yey they push back everything because of a char”. I bet u anything most are going “fking remove this char and add it later” even the DH fans.
    Meh..anyway.. +1 year..hope it was worth your pittiful skills

    • Lol why would this change release dates at all, Blizz most likly had backup plans for all classes and they already know what they can change and so on.

      They still have the Closed-Public Beta to look down the last for AH and the classes and other things.

      Harldy thinks this will change the dates at all

      • Agreed — I doubt this will change the release date very much if at all.  This is all apart of their plan — if they weren’t making changes, they very well may be sitting on their asses doing nothing.

        The people in charge of these changes are likely the balance and UI teams — the other guys working on the content for Act 4 (ie artists, quest designers, etc.)  are probably not delayed due to a change to the Demon Hunter.

        Anyone that thought they’re gonna release this year hasn’t been paying attention to how Blizz makes games…
        Operation CWAL anyone?

    • I am not a Blizzard employee but I am quite sure that content-wise (assets like: UI, animations, textures, models, plot, voice over, music, sounds) they are 95% ready. Now there is a time of play-testing, tuning the game and finalizing various subsystems (AH, skill swapping, etc.). Based on that 2011 is still possible, at least in my book.

  32. 1. Make modifications
    2. Test modifications
    3. Make more modifications based on the testing.
    4. etc.
    Major changes like these take time..more time then “oh the corps animation is correct” … “oh the portal is not clickable”. These are changes that effect the whole structural gameplay of a class. It has to be precise, well made and so on and is directly proportional with the whining degree of wow players that touched Diablo for the first time.

  33. We really don’t know anything at all about what they are doing, so anything we say is pure speculation.  But depending on whether they make core changes to the DH, this could push release date back at least a few weeks, if not months.

  34. Gratz, it’s gonna be THE First nerf in d3 history

  35. How dare they make changes to the game during beta?  OBVIOUSLY this means the game won’t be out until 2013 now.

    Seriously, people?

  36. Demon Hunter is the 1st ranged attack class in any game I’ve tried that I have no desire to play…at least based on what I’ve seen up to this point.

    • How come? I’m not really into the ranged weapon class, but I’m curious about what turns you off of the DH.

      • First of all, I don’t like the idea of 2 resources.  In theory, its cool and new, but in practice, it just creates unnecessary more management.

        They should combine the two resources and just call it either Hatred or Discipline, or something else.  They could make Disciple-type skills more passive or proc-based, similar to the Monk’s Mantra’s.  Just an idea.  

        I generally really like Ranged classes.  The D2 Amazon and the WoW Hunter are among my favorite RPG classes.  What can i say?  I just like pew pew. ;D

        But the DH just doesn’t seem….cool.  I’m not sure what it is exactly, but watching Beta videos of the DH, I just get immediately bored and I want to go watch a Monk again.

        • I feel the same way.  I was excited about this class when it was first announced, but it’s been since the release of the full skill calculator that I’ve been less than thrilled.  The DH =/= Hunter thing is what disappoints me the most.  I know, D3 is not WoW, but I never wanted an exact copy of this character and was glad to see something different.  And I will, of course, still play the DH to see what all he can do.  There’s plenty to still like. I was, though, hoping for a way to at least sort of recreate this with all the rune stone effects.  One of the funnest builds I did in D2 (but also seriously week) was the Druid with summons while using a bow.  I was really hoping for a way to do this that was end game viable with D3.  I mean, it looks like you can take the Barb with Call of the Ancients (with the passive and rune stone that turn this into an always on skill) + weapon throw and you have a better ranged attacker with ‘pets’ build than you can achieve with the DH.  He calls down demi-gods to fight by his side.  The DH gets a a little wooden turret with a dog.  Or a bat.  Or maybe a ferret to pick gold.  W00t.

  37. Is this game ever going to come out? stop making so many changes…

  38. This is a very good sign that Blizzard is adapting their game to best suit the user.  This is likely to be based off the feedback they have received, as well as internal testing (including focus groups) they have done.

  39. I was just at my friends house and had a discussion with him about when diablo 2 birthed the hybrid amazon class. The combination of bow and javelin with the ability to do damage across the screen with multy shot and light fury. Everyone had a zon when they were in there prime. They were fun and posed the ability to casually switch between two types of weapons.I honestly felt that, when looking back on the game as a whole (many years and skipped school aka sick days), that the hybrid zon was the most enjoyable class.
    someone please deny me 

    we also brought up when guided arrow was good only because of multiple piercing affects.. fun to watch

    I feel that the Demon Hunter needs to bring back this feeling of mastering two weapons and being a truly fun dps class.

    o and i been trying to send you news that blizzard announced they are using PAY PAL for the RMH…. hope your catching valuable ZZzzzz flux!  welll i still like u guys anyway.:P

  40. Wow changing her this late in the game. That’s freakin’ huge!

    Radically changing the resources management… wonder if they are getting rid of hatred / discipline altogether or just making them operate a little differently (and hopefuly tie them together in some way).

  41. Update from Bashiok a few hours ago:  

    “We’re not overhauling the class, just changing up what skills unlock at which levels and fixing some of their resource starvation issues. It’s easy to change this kind of stuff. Spreadsheet stuff.”

    I don’t remember the tags for blue posts.

  42. Honestly, this class never seemed that interesting once I really got into the details. I loved the idea of the class, but I don’t think it delivered once I saw all the skills and watched some videos. I am happy about these changes. Make it better! I want to play this class, so make this class into one I want to play!
    I also think the resource management colours look weird. The silver/purple one looked better. The current colours just don’t work with the rest of the screen.

  43. I hope they are changing the dual resources for the DH… Although I wouldn’t be entirely disappointed if they didn’t. I think the DH skills look pretty cool and the resource I use to cast them wont matter when I’m looting corpses.
    My idea for a possible DH resource uses hatred and discipline, but combines them into a single globe. The liquid inside your resource globe would start in the middle, where you would be awarded bonuses such as damage increase/attack speed increase/resource cost reduction/move speed etc… but as you use your hatred skills they fill the globe to the top, and as you use your discipline skills it fills the globe toward the bottom, reducing these bonuses the farther you get from either top or bottom. So basically you would need to use skills of both resource types to maintain a balance of hatred and discipline and gain maximum bonuses. Or just go rambo style and abandon your defensive discipline skills and bonuses and just focus on blasting enemies with hate…

    • The problem with that would be that as a ranged class defence would be less valuable then offence…

      But they could pick other types of bonuses i guess…

  44. Forget that Italian blue post. Here comes Bashiok:
    “We’re not overhauling the class, just changing up what skills unlock at which levels and fixing some of their resource starvation issues. It’s easy to change this kind of stuff. Spreadsheet stuff.”

  45. I think they should just skip the guns and go straight to cruise missiles… “Diablo, say hello to my little friend!”
    And before the trolls come out, yes that was sarcasm.

  46. I was still hoping they’d make Hatred and Discipline influence each other (using H would make D, and the more D you had the less H you would regenerate per minute)…

  47. Your post seemed to indicate that you found “rockets” to be the odd modifier in DH runestoning, I could BS for a few minutes and make peace with that.

    What I can’t wrap my head around is what happens when you apply any type of runestone to \Rain of Vengeance\. If you would rather not look it up, I kid you not, you go from shooting a bunch of arrows into the air, to summoning \Shadow Beasts\.
    No explanation is given, you don’t see some Shadow Beasts and then shoot them with arrows, you don’t open a portal and shoot things that come out, there is no more shooting to be done. You simply runestone an arrow-based AOE ability and all of a sudden you are a summoner with control over \Shadow Beasts\.

    The only exception is the Indigo Rune, which apparently managed to remember what it was runing and on what class, because it just appears to be a straight upgrade to the original skill; you rain down arrows longer and they do more damage. I should go double check the Witch Doctor to make sure you can’t rune his skills to drop arrows from the sky, except for Indigo, which would, of course, summon a shadow beast.

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