Dead Hardcore Character Exp Will (Probably) Count in Paragon 2.0

Travis Day added another post about DiabloWikiParagon 2.0 in his Friday in the forums, and this one should stir some debate.

When the Paragon 2.0 system is released our current plan is to take all the experience players have currently accumulated and sum that into a single value, well two values really, HC and non HC. If you have 5 paragon level 100 characters on your account in soft core that we will add that total experience earned into a single value and your soft core paragon level will be equal to whatever that amount of experience translates to into levels.

The current plan is to do the same thing with all of your hc characters. We are still discussing what we do with dead vs active characters but I’m leaning towards including experience of dead hc heroes as well.

The purpose of the paragon 2.0 system is the reward players who want to invest lots of time as opposed to specific characters. Under that philosophy I don’t see any reason to deny HC players experience they previously earned.

Xanth wrote a recent column about this issue, and it’s something we’ve debated on the podcast and elsewhere. Currently, players with Paragon 100 (or just other high level) Hardcore characters are afraid to play them, since the risk of losing all that experience before Paragon 2.0 goes live is palpable. So it’s nice of Blizzard to try to assuage that fear, and also… if the Paragon system is going to preserve HC experience gained after P2.0 goes live, why not also preserve it before the system goes live?

On the other hand, we’ll get purists objecting. Saying that players playing HC up til now have been operating under the assumption that death was a permanent loss of all they’d gained. Just like in real life. Some players will surely feel that it’s cheesy for Blizzard to offer this generous system shift in advance of Paragon 2.0. Yes, it’s vote time, and argument time in the comments.

Should the exp earned by already-dead HC characters count towards Paragon 2.0 when it goes live?

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Ironically, I had a post on this topic with a vote ready to go last week, but I kept hoping we’d get more details from Bliz on how they were planning the system to work, and that I should hold off on posting the vote until then. Is this how it feels to be right? It’s nice, for a change!

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28 thoughts on “Dead Hardcore Character Exp Will (Probably) Count in Paragon 2.0

  1. This whole system is completely idiotic. Putting aside the fact that Blizzard will probably never make any core system changes to entice me to play Diablo 3 ever again, even if they did, I would want a clean slate for RoS.

    In my opinion, Expansion and Classic should be completely separate. Launch day of the expansion, everyone should have to start at Level 1, brand spanking new characters, no access to any preexisting items, gold, leveled-up artisans, or paragon bonuses to character stats. I’m not saying Blizzard cannot have game mode that allows this pollution to permeate expansion launch day, for those that want it, but there better damn well be a Ladder mode ala D2 where none of this preexisting BS gives anyone an advantage over anyone else.

    There is no way in hell I will accept anything less, but it’s probably moot because as I said, Blizzard will probably never fix the problems with the core game systems anyway.

  2. After I lost my most powerful character in hardcore. I got the will to kill all my characters and start fresh as only ironborn. Is there a way that my artisans could go back to level 0? If I delete all my characters should that happen?

    Ps: my friends will receive a lot of good gear for me 🙂

    • I think no. Only way to get artisans to level 1 is by buying new copy of the game. Maybe ladder will make that? Cross your fingers.

      • Ladders SHOULD start you off at 0 gold and 0 exp, that’s kind of their point – to be the periodic reset the game needs.

      • It’s also potentially really really powerful in PvP, should they ever implement that.

        It’s damage source that constantly fires that you LITERALLY cannot do a thing about other than just ran away or take the damage or waste a valuable cooldown (D3 PvP will most likely just be a battle of cooldowns.

  3. No.

    For me the whole idea of hardcore is the chance of losing everything, gear AND experience. There’s a balance between those two that keeps it exciting. Taking one of them away will make the other far less important too. Thus taking away most of the thrill.

    Also, more people will play sc style, risky builds etc. Good thing for public games! Bleh. Next thing you know they will implement a way to retrieve the items of dead characters in the second expansion. Just to please the hardcore community.

    Btw this is the first time I feel the urge to complain about something, so there you go 😀

    • Paragon levels do not matter now anyways, it’s just some MF. No power is gained at all. With 1.08, it is so easy to get experience now, paragon 100 on hardcore is easily obtainable within 200 hours played. With better gear, 100 hours is do-able for sure.

      I welcome the risky builds, I like dying, and I enjoy seeing others die. I especially enjoy seeing people die so hard, they quit hc. That makes for a good laugh.

      • It’s certainly easier to reach than 99 was in D2C, but you realize that 200 hours played is 1) fast to get to 100 (Xanth was around 250 with his recent P100 WD), and 2) a huge amount of hours for most people to video game? That’s 2 hours a day for 100 days.

        I guess 3.5 months isn’t that long to get a new char to P100, if you think about it that way, but a lot of people don’t have 2 hours a day to game, or don’t want to spend 100% of their playtime grinding the same char.

  4. The “Sharagon” idea is settled. The question is all about the one time conversion, not if “Sharagon” is a good thing for HC chars or not.

    “Don’t play Diablo until the pre-patch is deployed” is not the way to go. Every char should get their paragon points converted, dead or alive. The alternative is to reset paragon for all chars.

  5. I just don’t see how the answer can be anything but yes.

    If they remove HC xp from currently dead characters, it’s obvious that they should also remove xp from characters that die after the patch.
    So what would happen if you assign paragon points and then a character dies, removing the xp from points that you’ve already assigned?
    –Should they remove or disable the points and if so, what ones?
    –Should they leave the points you’ve already spent? That would just encourage you to spend all of your paragon points as fast as possible and only assign points to new characters.

  6. I have moved on to “do not care”. Ladders baby, that’s all that matters.

    I did add to my bone pile recently though. I think the paragons are now 100, 66, 63, 50, 37, 27, 19, 19, 3.

    Living I have 88, 40, 9. Bwahahahahaha!

  7. If the philosophy of Paragon 2.0 is to reward players for the totality of the time that they’ve put into playing the game then it’s clear that experience gained by dead HC characters should be included in the equation.

    • This is the amplified philosophy for softcore. To say this should be included for hardcore in the equation is to say make hardcore more equal to softcore.

      You have one life, eager hero. If you should die, though your deeds will be remembered, you shall not return again. This is the philosophy for hardcore and if anything the opposite should apply to hardcore where playing with an hero which gained the most paragon experience should be the most rewarding.

      the deliberate diminishment of the intellectual level in this game makes me scary for my beloved hardcore mode because it is obvious that blizzard wants to apply softcore paragon 2.0 to hardcore because they are too scared that their dumbed down audience will be too confused if the paragon system doesn’t behave the same way in the two different game modes.

      + it is less work :p.

  8. What if, they implemented the exp now as a placeholder, any HC heroes that die between now and the exp will keep their xp?

    *I’m sure someone died yesterday would flip out, but oh well, can’t make everyone happy all the time.

  9. I am definitely all for keeping the exp gained by chars who have died. After all, people like Zappa and Korn, who have played 1000´s of hours should get some sort of recognition for that. My highest level HC char is only a level P45 or so, but even at that low level, it feels good I am working towards getting a reward for that when RoS launches.

    What I do wonder about, though, is whether having the dead chars on the char selection screen or in the hall of heroes (or whatever the graveyard is called) makes any difference. I always automatically move my dead chars to the hall, and would hate to learn that they are counted as “deleted”

    Anyone got any info on that?

    • The graveyard is the recognition you get for your fallen heroes and your hours spend. If you get a good feeling by working on your paragon level towards getting a reward for that when RoS launches without the consequence of death (ergo exp gained by a fallen hero) i would suggest playing softcore.

  10. Hardcore with buffs? Start everytime stronger? Isn’t that the opposite of HC?¿¿ You grinding your characters and becoming everytime stronger no matter if you die?¿¿

    If you ask me, paragon is nice but fault in its core. A game should be funny and WORTH playing without those CHEAP TRICKS.

  11. no no NO WAY!

    i’m absolutely disgusted by this poll and the 49% saying yes. Don’t get me wrong i have three dead paragon level characters (lvl 65, 71, 94) but i’m still dead set against experience earned by death characters counting towards your total paragon level.

    IMO this poll only shows that we really need ladder! Obviously the majority of these yeasayer’s are bored softcore players playing hardcore because this is NOT the hardcore mentality!

    With all the news as of late, it seems blizzard is kinda listening to it’s community, we can only hope that the real hardcore community will rise up and protest against the current (probably) paragon 2.0/hardcore plans, but i’m afraid it’s already too late since we are already discussing about already dead characters and paragon 2.0 :(. RIP hardcore mode, Welcome softcore 2.0+.

    • > i’m absolutely disgusted by this poll and the 49% saying yes.

      Why? The account wide paragon system is coming, the question is all about the conversion.

      Take the following example:
      I am playing the evening before the new paragon system is released and I loose my P100 char. A friend of mine could not play, so his char is safe. At release day I do not get any experience, because my char is dead. He gets all his paragon experience transferred into the new account wide paragon system. A few hours later his char dies, but his “Sharagon” level remains. I cannot see any difference, therefore I voted “yes”.

      • You misunderstood me, i’m against experience sharing from dead characters in general.

        If you died one day before release of paragon 2.0 and you don’t get any experience it is because you are dead and you play hardcore. If you died one day after the release of paragon 2.0 and you don’t get any experience it is because you are dead and you play hardcore!

        Softcore paragon 2.0 should not just be applied to hardcore. Paragon 2.0 for hardcore needs rethinking because its a different game mode. Different game modes different incentives.

        • Well, I understand your point and partially agree, but that was not the question of the poll :). That’s why so many voted “Yes”.

          The account wide system is coming, it’s more or less set in stone and that’s why I cannot understand any vote other than “Yes” or “Don’t care”.

  12. I’ve already stated this 3-4 weeks ago that kid(soon plural), work and general little time makes me think this as a fantastic idea and it should be like that. If you invest massively into something be well rewarded.

    I wouldnt even BE playing D3 if characters worked like in D2 “one char one spec” ( which changed since back in the days I’m well aware thanks).

    Quick respecs and accountwide rewards for investing the time possible into your SC/HC is definately a good idea.

    I’m quite sure ladders will provide what some HC players keep moaning about in terms of a (although relatively) fresh start*

    *yes I play HC

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