Boycott Demon Hunters!


PTR sets vs. Live sets

Item Sets: PTR start vs. finish

A fan infuriated by the item changes on the PTR for patch 2.2 has has ordered a strategy both illogical and counter-productive, urging players to boycott Demon Hunters! Let’s see his argument:

Its Time To BoyCott The Dev’s Bread & Butter Class

Seriously! I hate to say this and even Suggest it but We all know that DH’s are the Bread and Butter In this game. DH is the only class that Doesn’t get hit with Nerfs and since the Developers Let Other Classes Join their DPS Level then it time for the Players to Prove a Point.

You have to ask yourself do you want to play “Demon Hunter 3” or do you want to play “Diablo 3” Look at the threads! these prove my point:

  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16716771945
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16716551726
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16717741774
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16717521860
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16719301958
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16646354826
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16716701835
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16716091919
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16717031847
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16716771755

  • Tyvalir: Hey all, just a quick reminder:

    One of the main reasons we have a PTR is that it provides us a place to test ideas and changes that are still in development in an environment that approximates the live game as well as seek feedback from our community.

    This process only works, however, if the feedback we receive is shared in earnest and with the goal of improving the game experience. This post and its core suggestion works against both those concepts. Not only is it disingenuous to encourage your fellow players to falsify their feedback, but it works to diminish the value of said feedback and its potential impact on the design process. For everyone. =/

    In the future, please try to keep your feedback-related discussions focused on specific issues you’re facing, providing as much detail as you’re able. And, please, keep it honest. Any additional threads that incite others to post spurious claims or anecdotes will be locked or removed.

    I didn’t follow every link provided, but all that I looked at were fairly generic, “my class should be more awesome” complaints. Imagine that, complaints about something in Diablo 3 in the B.net forums. Unpossibru! Also, consider that when players do boycott a class, the devs take that as evidence that class needs a buff and they give them new and awesome items. Witness the comments in this week’s tavern talk about how they saw the Monk go from one of the least played to the most played classes in 2.1, thanks mostly to the lure of the Gungdo Gear bracers. So yes, speaking as a DH fan… everyone plz boycott!

    Logical consequences of a boycott aside, let’s look at the larger issue and the fan passion. (And ignore DH fans like me who are annoyed by changes to Natalya’s during testing, and hate that the new DH set is arbitrarily limited to work with just Multishot.) The devs addressed the big picture on the Tavern Talk, stating pretty strongly that, (paraphrasing Wyatt, but check the transcript or watch it around the 1:12 point), but basically, “if you can’t handle big changes in balance over the course of patch testing, don’t follow the PTR.”

    They were arguable ham-handed about it this time, with the Barb’s IK set 6P bonus granting a ginormous +500% damage, which was then trimmed all the way down to +100% in the next patch. (Leaving the Barb very strong, but not godlike.) Which caught players’ eyes. The Wizard’s Tal Rasha set also got nerfed from the start of the PTR, but those two sets and all the other vanilla sets are still considerably more powerful in v2.3 than they are currently.

    Do you guys think the devs know more on long term balance matters than fans can see in just a few weeks of testing? Does anyone really think that one class is specially favored, for whatever reason? (And yes, most of us thought this about the Barb back in D3v, when spin2win was obviously the strongest build for about 16 months straight.)

    And should the PTR be handled differently, with more gradual tweaks and maybe even a dev plan to start out weak and then steadily buff sets and items over the course of the PTR, so players would get a “getting stronger” warm feeling in their tummies, rather than a “it was expectation, now it’s reality” reaction to a big nerf late in any PTR testing cycle?

    Click through to review some of the visual literature on PTR item set expectations vs. live patch reality:

    Comments

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    1. off topic, but @ pics = lolz
      on topic, i like changes because otherwise you'd be playing one style forever and that would be boring.
      change is good

    2. I’d boycott that post due to appalling use of unnecessary capital letters. Seriously, I think that poor poster follows far too much clickbait.

      “This One Wierd Trick Discovered By A Mom MELTS Rift Guardians”

      “It Looked Like An Ordinary Bow. But What Happens When You Equip It Will Blow You Away”

      “New Power Levelling Trick That Devs Hate (UNBELIEVABLE!). But Should It Be Banned?”

    3. I don't think one class is favored. I think the problem is Blizzard looks at the whole game and "serious" players look at one thing: group, high-level GRs. To them that is the only thing that matters. Solo play, group rifts, bounties, ubers…none of that exists in the game in their mind.

      Current 4-person GR meta is a zDPS WD locking everything down, probably a crusader (not sure, don't play group grifts), and 2xDH or maybe 3xDH. I think someone posted on the PTR forums that in the top 100 (1000?) 4-man GR groups with the best times there isn't a single wizard. Why? Because wizards do a fraction of the damage a DH can under those circumstances. DH's are fragile but being fragile doesn't matter if a WD is perma-CCing everything for you.

      Blizzard doesn't care really. For one, they said in the tavern talk they plan on eliminating perma CC. If group GRs become about toughness a little then DH representation will drop a little. Two, Blizzard says they don't look at leaderboards to balance classes. Which means they are fine if the class composition of 4-man GR50+ isn't even across classes.

      Personally I don't care much either. I just want builds that are fun and viable. Do I think it is a little silly that a single cluster arrow with 5 sentries out can do more damage than an entire wizard (that's the claim anyway)? Sure. It is a little annoying to group with 2xDH as a wizard and have them blow up the screen before I can cast. I'd like the classes to be closer in damage but they are never going to be balanced.

    4. I think what really aggravated people was that the Wizard had a set that finally allowed it to somewhat approach the DH in DPS, albeit a set that is supposedly clunky to use. Then the Devs hit the set with two consecutive nerfs, rendering Wizards once again entirely useless. If Tal Rasha’s was OP in that state than the DH is beyond OP; if the DH is fine as is then Tal Rasha’s should have been fine pre-nerf. To make matters worse the devs were completely tone deaf during the Tavern Talk (on this matter in particular).

      I appreciate that the devs are trying but their approach is simply not working and will not work for a long time yet. Having overwhelmingly powerful 6 piece sets is inherently build and itemization restrictive. The only way to allow for variety is to release a large number of these sets for each class and keep said sets balanced.

    5. I dont get what people are upset about, blizzard wants so when you see the top of the leaderboards its not the same damn build everytime, because that’s stupid. There’s zero point to play a game if, you want to be the best, you’ll end up the same as everyone and if you want to do that, that just makes you a total tool. Right now each class has basicly three sets and various ways to use each set in order basicly get to the near top or top of the leaderboards and thats a good thing. With the new nat’s set now you can use a strafe build with any rune with both rain, and strafe and its all awesome and super fucking powerful. m6 is still great, the multishot has near billion crits no problem so…whats the problem?! Do you people seriously want one class better and only one way to play that one class to do the best?! that makes zero sense. i couldn’t of hated this game before after 2.0 when the sentry build came to be that was just silly to see everyone doing that, destroying the frame rate of multiplayer games. now its to where if everyone wants to be powerful, there’s a lot of different ways to do it. If you dont like that, you’re out of your damn mind.

    6. Jesus christ, I really don’t care about the balance as long as every class has at leat one viable T6 build. Who are you competing with anyway, that you need all classes to be balanced? Most players play either alone or in small groups of friends, so what does it matter that some DHs you will probably never encounter breeze through game somewhat easily than you?

      We really need to stop the “waah” and appreciate how far the D3 has come since the messy vanilla launch.

      • I agree about T6, but “viable” is questionable. I think T6 is easy enough that every class can destroy it, but every class should be able to feel valuable in a party as well. A lot of t6 farming is chase the monks, who EP and then 1 shot a big pack leaving a wake of trash behind them. As a Firebird wizard, it doesn’t feel very balanced to play in a group with monks in T6.

        GRift balance doesn’t have to be perfect, but I think Blizzard’s goal is ~3 max levels difference at the top end, and I think that’s a great benchmark.

    7. To perfectly balance all classes, you would have to homogenize them and make them all similar.

      For an example of this, Barbs now have a "cheat death" passive, and in fact, all the cheat death passives are becoming more similar to each other. Time was, if you saw a hardcore Barbarian running around, you knew that guy was HARDxCORE because they didn't have a cheat death passive.

      The alternative, which is keeping the classes very distinct and still balancing them, requires a lot more work and a lot more minute adjustments. In Starcraft, they are able to achieve this (more or less) and their patches adjust things in 100ths of a second. In D3, they're making HUGE changes every patch, so we're nowhere near zeroing in on "perfectly balanced" classes. I don't see this ever getting better, either, since D3's development style is to keep putting out new items and updating the sets. To fine tune for balance, they would have to effectively freeze these big changes and just do small tweaks, which would be boring for most players.

      • I think what's much more likely is that they'll try to keep the classes within a few GR levels of each other (in solo), but that there will always be one class that outshines the others. As they keep making changes, that honor will jump from class to class.

    8. Yeah everyone just sit tight for a few months until Blizz decides someone else should be top dog for a while, then play that. It's a constant cycle – twinkle toes barbs, CM wizards, jade docs, pony show saders, now M6 is tops. eventually someone else will get the arbitrary boon, it's only a matter of time.

      • Agreed. I think the latest fountain of tears on the PTR forums is because DH has been tops for about a year and now another 4 months or so with S3. The maturity level of the complaints is laughable but it is grounded in a little bit of truth.

    9. I guess the poster was not around in the vanilla days. The DH was one of the weakest and stayed that way for a long time. It was not till M6 came out that DH became a playable unit.

      I would say let the DH have a another year to make up for the long time on the bottom. Barbs were on top for at least 2 years and are not exactly weak now.

    10. plenty of PTR stuff are port over to live with very little iteration after the last few tweaks even if they are unpopular.

      the op doesn't seem to understand that the recent m6 changes is a nerf. you need kridershot to finish the m6 build now when in the past you could just use a crafted legendary and still able to clear high tier rifts.

      i didn't really like the change to m6 but understood that it is required because the old m6 "was too easy".

    11. What's sad is the Devs come off just as clueless as random B.Net OP. The WD and Wizard were supposed to be greatly boosted in this patch, and I had big hopes for Delsiere's. Don't expect any real progress in this game until after the last expansion. I expect the coming of the next expansion will greatly change the meta from where it is now just like how RoS ended the days of whirlwind barbs, vacuum Monks and Crit mass Wizards running MP10 Crypt forever and ever to hit Paragon 100…

    12. The \Boycott DH\ poster is a moron. But that doesn’t change the fact that the TavernTalk answer was a complete dodge. The question was \why nerf the TR set twice when it wasn’t pulling numbers near as high as DH\. The response was akin to \LOL, you called it a nerf, but it’s PTR, that’s not a nerf\. That completely avoids the issue that question poses. I don’t know if the question’s premise is true or false, but the question deserved a straight answer.

    13. Boycott DH this is the most ridiculous comment I have seen here until today, what's next ?? boycotting Crusaderen because they rush through everything and everybody.
      Is simply too far out

    14. DHs are considered OP probably because they start out very powerful, doesn't face tank. They can just throw up their Towers and spam, other classes needs really really good gear in order to both survive and dish out decent damage, but Imo Barbs win in the end, when they get the gear, get the Paragon etc, then they're a freggin powerhouse of destruction and least not speed.

    15. Tal set was still a weaker unwieldy DH even before it was nerfed hard (and the Meteor boots nerf mattered more anyways).

    16. Clearly the original poster didn't live through the hell of playing DHs during D3v…

      • Did you? Because DH’s were the ONLY class back then that could even come close to farming in Inferno mode, so I am not sure what game you were playing.

        • I am not sure what planet you were on…

          • Maybe you aren’t. And neither am I. And I am quite sure I am crazy. But I am also quite sure that Demon Hunters were the ONLY class in D3V upon release during the “Inferno” difficulty levels that could farm it. Period. They are also the only class that has ever had a complete set that you can summon self-firing pets that just decimate rift and Grift runs. Not even the Witch Doctor..THE pet class for D3, had that kind of power with their pets. And here you are, White Knighting your favorite class.

    17. Actually, I've switch my opinion.

      PLEASE! Everyone else (but me, of course) stop playing DH right now! That way Blizz will think the class is under powered and buff them even more!

      kthnxbye

    18. wizards are already op lol.

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