Blue on the Potential Runestone Revision

As we’ve talked about in news and during the last podcast, DiabloWikiRunestones are not going to be included in the Diablo 3 Beta build. They wouldn’t have been found there anyway, since Runes don’t start dropping until around Act Two, but even if they didn’t, they wouldn’t. Because they’re being reworked, with a un’id’ed/random mod sort of feature being tested out.

In the podcast conversation we didn’t have the full info, and assumed Runestones would just get a bonus property. Not so, since as DiabloWikiJay Wilson explained during the media event, Runestones are now “unattuned” when found, which means you don’t even know what kind of runestone it is until you socket it! (When the magical mod shows up as well.) Before then you only know the level of the stone; not the type.

That feature, I don’t like. It just seems annoying and sure to confuse noobs. (Which, as we know, is the single unpardonable sin in Diablo III development.) Bashiok seems to agree on those points, as he elaborated on in a few forum replies. (And no, I’m not changing my opinion just because he shares it. Bliz PR employee or not!)

Is rune system revamped?
Bashiok: Personally, I love it, and hope it finds a way in.

I’m not so sure about rolling to see which rune effect you get (it could still work), but I *love* the idea of random affixes. That you could have a end-rank rune for the skill you want, with the effect you want, but you still don’t have ideal stats on it. That just makes the min/max item hunt that much cooler, and makes runes more important than… “Oh, I found another Crimson rune. Great. /salvage”

Yeah, but it makes it harder for me to see everything that could potentially be on my rune. I won’t know what “perfect” is without digging into the game and even then, what are the chances of me getting the rune I want.

I don’t like the random aspect of this part, I feel like randomizing my skills isn’t a great way to go :(.
Bashiok:Pretty unlikely you won’t know what’s available with an auction house at your finger tips.

And if we’re just talking about affixes, we’re talking about min/maxing. You’re going to know what affixes you want because you’re already pretty deep into your build.

I don’t expect a new character to pick up a rune, roll affixes, and then throw it away because “ew it has attack instead of defense”. Probably not going to care much early on.

Ya, I suppose that’s definitely true. But you also have to take into account that it’ll be randomizing the type of rune as well, correct? So I only have a 20% chance of getting the rune I want, regardless of whatever affix is added.

Maybe if each rune type dropped instead of “unattuned” runes, then I’d at least be able to get the rune I want and hope I get a good affix on it.

Bashiok: Well, like I said I don’t know if that part of it will work out… I just want the randomized affixes. 🙂 Makes runes so much more compelling as an item.

I’m confused as to why this was put into place… I have the idea, but it seemed like the ‘faced’ rune system was better, since we got to know what it was.

New player: “oh hey a rank 1 rune”
New Player: “neat. does this now”
*kills stuff, finds another rune*
New Player: “oh rank 2? I’ll upgrade it then”
*sockets rank 2 rune into previously socketed skill*
New Player: “Hey, how come it’s not doing the same thing? now it’s doing something totally different? Is it the rank? What is this “multi-shot” thing? It gave me bonuses? Now this rank 2 rune gives a different bonus, and does a different effect?”

*goes into general global channel*
New Player: “HOW DO RUNES WORK!?!?! Someone help! I’ve found all these runes but it keeps changing my skill around!”

Bashiok: That sounds about right. Well, like he [Jay Wilson] said, it’s still just hallway discussions at this point.

What do you guys think? Does anyone like the idea of unattuned runes where you don’t even know what type of rune it is? Does anyone NOT like the idea of random magical mods on runes? How about some of the stuff we talked about on the last podcast. Legendary runes? Rune set bonuses?

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    67 thoughts on “Blue on the Potential Runestone Revision

    1. I hate it because it reminds me of the stupid charms in D2. Out of 100 dropped charms, I’d only want to use 2-3 because everything else was pure trash. Unless they make the rune drops as common as charms. If the runes remain in the rare drop category (and I mean RARE), then you’ll never find what you truly want. Oh great, they might as well rename them to Zod.

      Blizzard, I’ve been really trying my best to keep an open mind with all the changes you’ve shoved our faces into this past week……now you’re really starting to piss me off.

      PS: the dropdown menu of each site subsection (Diablo 3 —> Basics/Items/Lore) etc appears too far away from the source link (Diablo 3) in IE and we can’t click any of them, as it disappears too quickly. It works fine in Firefox.

      • Yes, God forbid we can’t get absolutely ideal items in every single available slot.
        And without knowing how many different affixes you’ll be able to get on runes, and how widely they vary for a given rank rune, it’s hard to say how hard getting ideal will be.
        I also find it hard to believe there’ll be powerful enough mods that not getting what you want would turn a rank 7 rune of the right type to trash. It’ll just be “Not ideal, it’ll do for now but hopefully another comes up soon” or “My current rune has better stats, oh well, salvage/AH it”. Just like equipment items.

        • The thing is, it’s not just a matter of looking for the right mods on the rune, it’s also looking for the right rune. Maybe you really like the “indigo” effect on one of your skills, and after attuning a bunch of runes you finally get one to attune as indigo… but then it has a shitty attribute. That doesn’t make the rune “trash”, but it sure is disappointing.

          • that’s only if they really decide to keep the rune type undisclosed until you attune it (which is an idea even bashiok doesn’t like). but either way, you will still pick up every highlevel rune you’ll find, and you will roll affixes. so it has no affect on your playing. the only difference is that you get more excited if you find a rune which could potentially turn out to be the one you need, so I see you think it’s frustrating finding a level 7 rune with best affixes but of wrong type. but you must keep in mind that in that case, it will be five times more simple “runes” dropping than predetermined “indigo runes” in the other case, so after some time you will get used to finding much more runes than you need, and to salvaging / selling /throwing away most of them because it’s just not what you want.

            in my opinion, the new system is absolutely fantastic.

      • God forbid, they use some way to limit respec in late game. Seriously? Complaining about free respec then complain about you have to put dedication to one build.

    2. because they want to make them un’id’ed and with random properties, are runes less rare now?

    3. I love both aspects of new system.. unattuned state and random mods… I really hope this system will make it to the game.

    4. There are three components to the proposed new rune system but all three seem independent.
      I love the idea of affixes on runes, I’m surprised it’s taken this long to come up with.
      I also love that the runes become permanently attuned (possible wiping by the Mystic not withstanding) to the specific skill they are socketed into. It creates an investment into your skillset that complements the new skill system perfectly.
      But I don’t like the random rune type idea. Not only is it confusing to noobs, but that there’s a 4/5 chance you’ll not get the rune effect you want for the given skill and can’t then put into another skill is terrible. Wasting 4/5 of the rank 1 runes that drop like candy may be okay, but wasting 4/5 of the rare rank 7 runes is not. Affixes alone provide enough randomness and good vs. suboptimal runes.
      Of course, wasting runes isn’t a problem if unattuning a rune is cheap and easy – but that defeats the whole point of attuning them to skills in the first place – investing rare runes into specific skills.

      • But this is one of the main goal of new system.. Make rune as rare as possible… with current system..runes are .. well.. just not rare at all.. maybe top level runes.. but market will be flooded with runes very fast and will be very very cheap …so everyone can have all runes he/she wants.

        This system is making big changes to rarity while keeping rune flavor in the game. Love it

      • This is a good assessment. Personally, I don’t care about whether it will confuse some people. I don’t like the idea of always designing to the lowest common denominator. There will ALWAYS be people who are confused by even the simplest system. Why not instead go the other route and give people a little credit for being able to figure it out?
        I am optimistic about this idea, ESPECIALLY in combination with the changes around skill points. I think having skill-bound runes restores *some* of the idea of having a character build due to the likely lack of optimal runes if you sub skills mid-combat. To that end I’ll GLADLY concede that some people will be confused at first.
        Some people are saying they don’t like that you may have a hard time finding the right kind of rune under this method. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal, though. I think the rarity is a good thing – like checking then discarding an ill-suited piece of gear in any other slot. At worst they can implement the system suggested by a few by having Unattuned (Obsidian, Crimson, etc.) Runes that then bind to skill. But I think it can work fine as-is.

        • It’s clear that the devs are struggling to find some rune sinks, since othewise everyone would have had all the Level 7 runes they could ever use six months after launch. There has to be a way to use them up other than dying wiht them HC, or salvaging them.  Hence these new systems that make most runes sub-optimal with bad affixes, or that attune them to particular skills, wasting most of them.

          (Though I doubt it would be 4/5 of high level runes, since there would probably be 2 or 3 of the 5 rune types that you’d accept the effect from, in a lot of cases. Maybe only 1/5 is ideal, but you’d be able to tolerate a couple of others, assuming high level runes were quite scarce, and you got a good affix on it also.)

    5. I could be completely wrong but I got a different impression.  I thought the runes still had types.  So for instance a rune would be an ‘unattuned Indigo’ rune.  Once you apply that rune to a skill (like Magic Missile), it becomes a Magic Missile Indigo rune with +10 Attack.  The affix (+10 attack would be random).  Once a rune was applied to that skill, it could only ever be applied to that skill.  So if I pulled my Magic Missile Indigo rune out, I couldn’t make it an Arcane Orb Indigo rune.  It would always be a Magic Missile Indigo rune now.  This would create a market for unattuned runes.  It also means instead of just looking for a +10 attack indigo rune, I would now need to look for a +10 attack indigo rune for my specific skill, or an unattuned indigo rune and hope I got lucky.

      This means you would cycle through level 1 runes as you got them and get a feel for what the different rune types do for each skill, but you wouldn’t know exactly what a rune did because of the random affix.  I reread the interviews with Jay Wilson with this idea in mind and it made a lot more sense to me.

      Edit: I should point out if it wasn’t clear that I meant that an Indigo rune would always have the same effect for a skill. You just wouldn’t know what the random affix would be. And once it was attuned to a skill, it could only ever be applied to that skill.

      • It’s a little confusing, but I think what they’re thinking of is you don’t know what type of rune you have til it’s socketed. So Rank 3 Unattuned Rune drops, when socketed into Magic Missile it becomes Rank 3 Magic Missile Indigo Rune (+ 10 Attack).
        What you are describing is exactly what I’d like to happen.

      • I really hope this is what they meant, or at  elast what they will implement.
        The problem they saw was that one rune did so many different things to different skills and it was clumsy design to give a player a rune without explaining what it does in a different skill. By making it random they jump the need to explain anyting. Its a poor solution.
        There was also the issue of inventory space (for runes to swap with, or just use in a skill you get later, etc) … and I dont see how more items per rune, so to speak, solves that .. rather the oposite.

      • This was my impression as well. Jay didnt seem very good at explaining it I think. If this interpretation is true however then Bashiok is confused as well, so who really knows.

        Another possibility would be to simply select which type you wanted, upon slotting it into the skill, though I doubt that is what he was saying.

      • I got the same impression, unattuned indigo runes which you would then attune to a certain skill.
        Reason why I think Jay meant it like that is because he was going on about level 1 runes where you can experiment with what is going to happen. With the system you guys are proposing (totally random runes), that statement is not true.
        The unattuned “type” runes would make a lot of sense.
        1) They wouldn’t have to list everything the rune could do, because people would have seen what a rank 1 indigo does.
        2) They limit the availability of runes a bit. Any rune that is used, is skill attuned, so not possible to respec on the fly (or cheaply, depending on the mystic wipes) .
        3) The random affixes would make the runes variable and would increase the price of the higher ones. Could be a rune with a great affixe, but you still need it in your skill.
        One other thing: From the interview I got the feeling that the drop rate of higher level runes becomes quite low. So I expect something more akin to rune drops than to gem drops in D2 terms. I’m totally behind the “unattuned type rune drops but becomes attuned to a skill”. Seems to have a good balance between clear, replayability and able to please casual and hardcore.

    6. I dont like this system.
      For ppl like me who are completionists this requires me to get 5 runes for every different skill instead of just 5 total for fun and a few more for the skills i actually use.

      EDit: just calculated how much i would need with skills that are in the beta: 555!
      (just 1 rank, if you want all ranks multiply:P)

    7. I really like the random affix’s part, adds quite some depth, as for the Unid part… mmm, I’m very so-so about it.

      Imo the level of the rune should be not unique, but the type should. Simply out of economy reasons, so you can sell/buy unid level 7 runes, while knowing that they WILL have a high level, but not know the type. I can even imagine unique runes or rare runes, with additional stats.
      It’s like mixing the D2 jewels, with the previous D3 runes, which is pretty neat

    8. Based upon the lack of information regarding how the Mystic can alter runes (such as combining 3 or more to make a better rune) or how rare they will be to find in the game, I believe that they should potentially just have all dropped runes be unidentified and simply utilize a Scroll of Identify to obtain the goal of random properties/stat modifiers. Having the runes bind to a specific skill seems a bit redundant, especially if the Mystic can just wipe the rune clean.

      • there is hoping (if this new system will make it to the game) it won’t be that easy. Actually wiping rune should be expansive as hell..both gold and crafting material (at least high ranked runes)

        Also, I think they already said there will be no way to upgrade rune…high rank rune will have to drop. We will see if this is still true.

        A would prefer downgrading runes (with new system).. so for example you know you want indigo you can combine for example 3 any rank 7 runes to get any rune type you want but 1 rank in this case ..rank 6 indigo rune. Would be simple fix for people who don’t like current system and still keep specific rank 7 runes very very rare

    9. I don’t really understand the point of unattuned runes.
      If you want randomness, they were already random at the point of drop.  If I kill a Fallen, I don’t know if it will drop an Alabaster rune, a Crimson rune, etc.  Then I look on the ground, and, “Hey! Indigo rune!”  How is it  better or more random if I have to go talk to some NPC or open a dialogue box first?  Similarly, I’m going to find out what it does eventually.  It’s not a secret.  Why is it better if I don’t find out until I put it in a skill instead of finding out when I pick it up?

      It just seems like adding an extra step to the process for no particularly good reason.

      • it’s simple…. it’s for rarity .. if you keep current system.. market will be full of runes with specific type. So..after few months.. when new rune will drop, it’s not really big deal..actually it will be just annoying because runes in AH will be so cheap..that anyone can have anything he want..

        New system will make runes very rare and there will be huge demand for runes. ..while with current system..few months after release..runes will have no value at all.

    10. I want to know what type of rune it is before socketing as there is a definite strategic aspect to what type of affect you give your skills. Or so I assume… The random mods sounds great however. More loot to search for, sure, why not?

    11. I love the idea of randomness on the runes as far as affixes. Even adding Suffixes would be nice, even if they aren’t as “good”” as item suffixes (+X to stat instead of +Y to stat on an item, where X < Y). I completely agree with Flux/Bashiok in that it’ll make the item-game revolving around runes that much more interesting.

      And I also agree with Flux/Bashiok in that I don’t really want the rune effects themselves to be unknown at the time of dropping. It seems that I will waste A TON of runes trying to find, say, an Alabaster for a skill.

      A little randomness is great, and encouraged to keep the game fun and interesting for a longer period of time, but total randomness? That is just annoying. NOTE: Not being a kiss-ass, the points that Flux/Bashiok/others have made in favor of the same things I mentioned here are extremely compelling and arguably the best thing I’ve heard in a while  =)

    12. I think, Blizzard is preparing to remove skill runes too as they did with the skill points. They will remove everything, they removed talisman, skill points and now…  They try to remove skill runes, in my opinion, they will remove skills temselves completely after removing skill runes. There will be only weapons and nothing else. Maybe they will remove the gear also, we are gonna fight with punches and kicks, How is that idea Blizzard? No customization, no variation, nothing, Blizzard messed up so bad, Diablo 3 will be a huuuge epic fail, you will see. I gave up, I won’t buy Diablo 3, I will not give even a penny to D3. waiting for Grim Dawn and Torchlight 2.

      • You get that what they are talking about adds in some of the customisation lost by the new skill system, right? Attuning rare high rank runes to skills is a commitment to your skillset/build.

    13. Unindentified runes would make it easier to trade runes in the AH. With the current system less popular runes would sell for less. However if the rune’s type will only be determined when you socket them you could sell them in their unindentified state and then they would have a fixed price. If their drop chances would be increased by a factor of five their rarity wouldn’t change compared to the current system, but they could present interesting choices for buyers.

      For example, if I really want an indigo rune, but I don’t have the money for it or I find it too expensive, then I could probably buy and unidentified rune for less and maybe get lucky.

      I hadn’t thought this through very much, but in my mind it sounds good, so I thought that I share it with everyone. 🙂

      EDIT: Damn you xManiaCCCx for typing faster than me. 🙂

    14. Emotional instant reaction:
      Not knowing what rune it will be, before it sockets? Crap!
      Random prefix/affix. Great!

    15. Nay on not knowing anything but the level of the rune before using it. Yay on everything else – affixes, uniques, sets – it will really add a layer to character progression. Yay also on the rune binding to that particular skill type after you socket it into it.
      Really hope they introduce this system, otherwise I feel that finding the runes you want will not take too long. Just tell us what type it is, not even knowing if it’s a golden or an indigo will just lead to annoyance when it binds to a skill.

      • Oh that is a good idea as well, knowing what kind of rune it is, but then binding it to the first skill you socket it to, adds some accountability to player’s decisions.

    16. I like the idea of random prefixes and suffixes, but we should at least know what type of rune it is before we socket it.

    17. This is what I understood the developer to be saying, in a nutshell:

      You get an item. That item does something different for every one of your equipped skills (not to mention the ones in the wings). So, you get this crazy, confusing matrix to look at. If you were to create a “mouse over / what it does,” window it would fill the whole screen with garble, “Adds 2 bolts to force bolt, +2 puke-powder poison damage, ice tremor now does electric damage… (and on and on).”

      So, now, you get an item that does nothing. Then, you pick, which skill do you want to enhance? You pick your skill, and the rune “attunes” to that skill, modifying that skill and only that skill.

      Think of it like how in Diablo 2 you’d find items that say, “+2 to X Skill, Paladin only,” or whatever. Except, you get more choice. You get to choose what skill that item gives its bonus to. You just don’t get to chose which bonus.

      You’re actually not losing anything from the previous system except for the ability to move the rune from one skill to another. It makes the runes work a bit more like gems. This puts it more into the “hard core, make lasting decisions,” category that many Diablo II fans have been clamoring for.
      It also makes runestones more interesting. Instead of each of the same color being the same, they are now more varied.

      edit: made paragraph breaks more distinct

      • “So, now, you get an item that does nothing. Then, you pick, which skill do you want to enhance? You pick your skill, and the rune “attunes” to that skill, modifying that skill and only that skill.”
        What if you want to enhance Skill X with an Indigo and Skill Y with a Golden? You decide you like Skill X better and use the rune, only to have it attune as a Golden? So you now have a rune you didn’t want for X and lose the ability to use it for Y. That isn’t “hard core, make lasting decisions,” it’s close your eyes and hope the RNG is on your side. Meh. At least if you knew the type, you could make an informed hard core, lasting decisions.

        • I agree that the older system they talked about allowed you to get exactly what you wanted quicker. This new one will require you to find more treasure before you get what you want.

          The “lasting decision,” is, “which skills will I risk my runstones on, now that I get limited runestones.” Perhaps that decision isn’t interesting to you, but it’s there.

          Diablo III runestones, version 1: kinda confusing, not a need for lots of drops to optimize

          Diablo III runstones, version 2: less confusing but equally complex, a need for many more drops to optimize

          Diablo II class-only equipment buffs: very simple, a huge need for drops if you want to better a specific skill

          edit: paragraphs again… must remember to double carriage return…

    18. I like the idea of random stats.  Dont like the idea of not knowing what rune it will be before socketing.  Do like the idea of once a rune is socketed to a skill, it is locked to that skill and cant be moved to another skill.  That would make respecing a little bit harder later on when higher level runes are not as accessible. 

    19. This adds customization to the game too.
      i have 3 Level 7 runes already attuned to 3 skills I like, all with decent pre/suffixes,  I find another level 7 rune of the same type of one of the 3 skills i have runed.  Do i take a chance on getting better pre/suffixes?  Or do I socket a 4th skill?
      Especially if 6/7’s are rare.

    20. Make it bind to the skill but let us know the rune type we get.
      Because say I am looking for a crimson rune for my whirlwind skill, and say I don’t want to trade for it, means I will ruin and bind many runes before I find this Crimson one.. I think that sucks

    21. Think it would also be nice if the runes took a leaf out of the gem system’s book and made the highest levels of runes only available through crafting. Say level 8 and 9 runes are only available through crafting. Anything that makes it more difficult/less common to have top tier stuff is good in my opinion.
      Could result in too much of a reliance on crafting in the game however.

    22. Like most people, I like the idea of affixes on runes.  And as other posts have said, attuning a rune to a specific skill should complement the new/revised skill system by having us make at least some decisions about our “build”.  However, not knowing what type of rune you are attuning totally defeats that purpose.  All it will do is create the most diversified assortment of attuned runes for the auction house. 
      Here’s a scenario that would be very similar to the proposed change of unidentified runes.  Suppose you’re playing a Wizard & find an item simply called “weapon”.  You won’t be able to tell just what type of weapon it is until you equip it, & at that point it will become attuned to your class.  Now suppose you go ahead and equip it & find out it’s an exceptional crossbow.  In our example it will now make it a Wizard-Only crossbow that would otherwise be a great weapon in the right hands, but now it’s trash.  Blizzard would never make this kind of system (at least I’d hope not), so I don’t know why they are considering basically the same thing for runes. 

    23. This type of system would make more sense if runes were to be destroyed upon desocketing.

      1)Socket the rune, then see its effects. If you don’t like them, desocket at the cost of the rune and its respective components.

      2)Break the rune down to its components, as depending upon its level I would imagine there would be higher grade components. You never knew if you threw away something awesome or not, but you can now buy better items overall.

      3)Sell it and let some schmuck decide 1 or 2. More money for higher levels.

      Otherwise, it’s effectively just a handy tool for the marketplace for all runes of the same level to have similar prices. I don’t see an extra step, as some have described it, as an advantage. Hopefully what I have described is not the direction things will take.

    24. Question about the proposed affixes:   So if there is going to be random affixes on runes, will the affixes only affect the skill the rune is socketed in (like +5 dmg to the specific skill, knockback on the specific skill)?  Or can it have affixes that affect your character (like +5 strength or +20 hps)?  If it’s the second case, will you only get bonuses from your active skills or will everyone want to put a rune in every single skill to have affixes from each one?   I don’t think this question has been asked/answered yet, I looked, but I may be wrong.   Any idea?

    25. *Edit* (sorry for doublepost, don’t see an edit option on my last post, may be due to the old browser I have to use at the moment)

      Such a system as I described above would certainly force the player to make a much more tougher decision than “I’ll socket it and see what it does. If it’s better than what I have, I’ll just trade them out and sell/turn the old rune into its components. If it’s not as good, I’ll just sell/turn it into its components. If it shows promise, I’ll keep it in my inventory as a swap” as opposed to “Oh crap… do I socket it to see what it does, and risk destroying the current rune I have that may possibly be better or worse for me?” Do I sell it for a high price in the auction house? Do I break it down, and give my artisan the components I would get from this level X rune that would allow me to buy better items entirely? Do I just leave it on the ground because decisions are hard?”

      That would add dynamics to runes. It would certainly make things more interesting, but is that more fun or annoying? Just keep in mind the risk/reward aspect of game design.

    26. :p Question about the proposed affixes:
      So if there is going to be random affixes on runes, will the affixes only affect the skill the rune is socketed in (like +5 dmg to the specific skill, knockback on the specific skill)?  Or can it have affixes that affect your character (like +5 strength or +20 hps)?  If it’s the second case, will you only get bonuses from your active skills or will everyone want to put a rune in every single skill to have affixes from each one?
      I don’t think this question has been asked/answered yet, I looked, but I may be wrong.
      Any idea?

      • Jay’s example from the media event was +to an attribute. So the mods seem more char boosting than specific to the skill. But obviously that could change.

      • It sounded to me like the stat boost would still work if you put it on another skill.
        It would be like a Barbarian in Diablo II using a mace with a bonus given to Paladin’s Only.  He gets the +2 Strength, just not the Aura bonus.

    27. I loled at the “single unpardonable sin”. So true.

      Random affixes is totally awesome of course. Not knowing the type of rune is pretty silly but not ultimately a big deal.

    28. Skill points – gone.
      Stat ponts- gone
      Talent trees – no such thing

      It seems to me that the only way you can customize your class was to use the faced rune system. But now that we cannot even make that choice because the runes are randoms, well..

    29. Seems like a great way for blizzard to make sure the cash auction house will be used a lot…
      reminds me a bit of glyphs on WoW but you actually need these runes at some point.

    30. I love the idea involving the random affix but not the type of rune being unknown till you use it.Then it would make hunting for the skill make-up you’ve chosen or want to do just inconvinant and I really don’t think that’s what bliZz is aiming for with d3 in the end.

    31. Keep the random mods, toss the “attuned” stuff. If they want to make you need/want a lot of runes (instead of just 6 of each type) I’m actually hoping they put 5 sockets for each skill – one for each type, and let you switch which one is “active” somehow in town, but don’t let you replace them (with higher level ones or ones with better random mods) without destroying (or downgrading?) the old one.

      That way you could eventually have all 100+ runes (5×20+) without having to store the ones you’re not currently using in your stash and sort through dozens of them to find the exact one you want (No, that’s my OTHER multishot rune… that’s a rune for another class…). You’d still have to replace them occasionally even at level 7 if you find better random mods, or your equipment and passive skills(etc) suddenly dictate you want more precision instead of attack, etc.

      And at lower levels, swiching your skills around a lot might hurt, because you don’t have as many good runes for your new ones, etc. It’d be like a small respeccing fee, but where you gradually build up everything to the point you don’t have to anymore.

      Actually, the rune-set idea is interesting (ie all crimson runes), because you might like some of the crimson effects but not others, so you’d have to pick different skill choices than you normally would – and then you might need different items to support those. Anything like that which makes you build other decisions around it is a good idea in my mind.

    32. I like the method Jay proposes, but understand that people could get frustrated with obscured rune colors before socketing them. At the least I’d really like to see the affixes and skill locking be incorporated in the game. Beefs up the loot feel of runes, and helps with build definition in the late game, which is otherwise missing.

      Now, if they were to introduce Rare or Legendary runes at some point, I’d like to see those with hidden colors. Balance the beefiness of multitudes of affixes with the uncertainty of getting the color you are looking for. Or perhaps even introduce wild card Rare or Legendary runes that produce two or maybe even three different rune effects at random when the skill is used. Not simultaneously, just 50% of the time alabaster effect, 50% obsidian.

      Maybe in the expansions, most certainly not before though.

    33. Am I the only one getting annoyed by all the changes at the last moment BEFORE beta???? I thought there plan was to have systems in place earlier in development to give more time for story and such…. I really really hope they have a decent team creating story, a decent team getting it all together and another team thats just systems. Because it just seems like the flow to this could be so much more organized….

      I just want a good game. I don’t WANT to guess on my runes, seeing the rune rank and name is nice, as then we know what it does AUTOMATICALLY to a skill. We don’t have to guess after the fact… Argh, just stop changing it and add more CONTENT!!!

      I don’t get it why its so hard for company’s to fricken make a game last 50-80 hours. DA1-2 was short its time for Blizzard to reclaim its title for games kind of like Ubisoft took away w/ AC Series. But oh well, i’ve stepped off my soap box.

    34. Wasn’t that the way shirines worked in diablo 1 – where you didn’t know if it helped you or not till you activated it?

      Do not like!

    35. Why has it to be either this or that? Why not implement both systems? Having all of the 5 runes dropping with random affixes and/or suffixes and in addition being able to experiment with a 6th type of unidentified rune, that doesn’t reveal their true nature prior being socketed into a skill?

    36. I’m also against not knowing what type of rune I found and what it does, until put in a socket. It’s as if Jay & co are doing it intentionally to have us run like crazy to… (let’s say) see the mystic to pay some huge amount of gold to get that rune out of the socket. A mandatory gold sink it would seem. But this will ruin the fun people get from playing for many players. Diablo 2 taught us to plan ahead: not just character abilities and synergies but also the gear. D2jsp, bot runners, and dupes aside, during my eleven years of playing online I’ve met some people playing old school style – full legit. This rune effect/quality uncertainty will seriously impede any sensible strategy making for a given character. It’s like they want to force us to get to know every possible rune and skill+rune configuration. This is an artificial prolonging of play time. It will just take fun away and make a lot of people furious. It’s not just about “oh i will spend some 20 hrs more to get my char to be what i want”, but the fact that it will put a lot of people at a disadvantage. The average gamer’s age varies depending on country and continent, however, it is assumed that an average player is his/her twenties. Most of them work or study, so naturally they can devote a lot less time to play. Combine that with being almost unable to plan ahead or to progress in what you planned for your character because some devs thought it would be so fun. In this case there’s a thin line between fun and ruin, therefore I’m not surprised that many people are not amused about those rune revision plans.

    37. It almost seems like they’ve gone full circle with their ideas of how the game should feel to us in the last couple of weeks. Before, every level we gained should have some kind of impact, and we should be able to feel ourselves getting stronger. Now it seems that our entire ‘build’ is randomised. If I really like one of my skills and want to improve it, I can’t simply do that now. I’d just have to wait until an item drops and then cross my fingers. Hardly a just reward for time and effort put in.

    38. I don’t like that runestones have any additional mods on them. I find it confusing and kind of unnecessary. I think that kind of customization should be kept on the gear side of things. However, I have to admit that it’s probably a good design choice, because otherwise people would pretty much end up with max level runestones and that’s that. Now it’s more like hunting a polearm that is ethereal and superior.

      What I really don’t like is the randomization of runestone effects. That’s just crap. The runestone decisions were the only stats/skills decision on your build! And now they, too, are random?! I think that Blizzard really needs to trust their players that once they reach act2 they can make a decision between five different runestones for their skills. And as said before, that random stuff is just way more confusing than the way it was before so I really hope they reconsider on this one! Out of all the recent controversial changes, I found this runestone randomization the most lacking. And that’s saying a lot!!

    39. I like the idea of mods, but the idea of attuned runes not at all.

      Mods make for an item hunt for those interested in maxing. On the other hand, having to un-socket your rune and stick a new rune in just to find out if it is the right one is a chore, particularly when the odds of getting the right rune are so low and particularly if they make the quality level of the rune also invisible until socketing.

      It would be like D2’s unidentified items, but instead of having a scroll of identify or Deckard, you have to take your items off and stick the unidentified item in. Worse, if they don’t show the quality level until its socketed, it would be doing that for every tier of gear that drops.

      • I wouldn’t think of it as “like D2 unidentified items.”  In D2, you had no control over your unidentified items. In this, you can point it in a certain direction.

        Though, it would be nice if there was a higher level craftsman who could socket an item for you and direct the special it gave to the skill. This would make for less of a grind and/or auction hall payout to get what you want.

    40. I think it’s stupid, but I can’t really convey my reasons. I don’t think randomness is my favourite thing about Diablo, but that seems to be what he thinks.

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