Blizzard’s RMAH Defenders Grow Weary


DiabloWikiBashiok‘s clearly getting sick of replying to the same arguments against the DiabloWikiReal Money Auction House. That’s fair enough though, since some critics are clearly getting pretty sick of the PR-style answers they’ve been given. As evidence, I offer quotes of the only two forum posts he visited today.

Instead of addressing the RMAH issue that’s been dividing the diablo community, you banned several of us for pushing you for answers. You sunk quite low, not as bad as the DiabloWikiRealID stunt you pulled, but close.
Bashiok:Don’t pretend you weren’t violating forum guidelines.

As you can tell by looking around no one is being banned just for holding a conversation or stating they don’t like it.

A longer, slightly-testy debate ensued elsewhere.

I absolutely hate how ever since DiabloWikiMike Morhaime spoke yesterday in front of the investors about the real money auction house during the Activision|Blizzard conference call, the few players that support the feature act like “it’s all official now”, while blizzards themselves have not yet commented on the mass uproar against the real money auction house.

It’s not official, not yet. What you can do as a player and responsible consumer is to simply speak with your wallet and not buy the game. Please, do NOT support the implementation of pay to win models in Diablo3 as well as any blizzard franchise.
Bashiok: What does ‘winning’ a Diablo game entail?

That being said, you can’t deny the fact that someone who can purchase gear can get advantages over fellow gamers in PvP
Bashiok: Sure, but the advantage (in PvP) would be they could maybe get a short winning-streak but with the matchmaking system it would compensate and they’d quickly get matched against better people and it would even out.

If having better gear makes you a better player in PvP (which I would argue is only true to a small extent), it doesn’t mean anything because you’re getting matched against similarly skilled players each time.

Really? Taking the OP’s words that everyone understands because it’s common terminology and being sarcastic about a technicality? Yes, Diablo is not a game with a definitive end point in which one can say “There. I have won.” But really stooping to that level? I’ve watched these forums for years and that was low, Bash. Not for the fellow forumgoer, but for you definitely.
Bashiok: Stooping to the level of asking a question that might make people think about what they’re saying? Or at the very least begin a conversation.

If that’s too challenging there are plenty of other threads.

I love how Bashiok comes in here and cherrypicks some random post in which he’ll have an answer to, but doesn’t really address the RMAH uproar that has divided the community.
Bashiok: The only way to address it would be to say it won’t be in the game, or will be sequestered off to separate servers. Neither of which are going to happen. I’ve given a lot of reasons why we think it’s going to be a fun addition to the game, but I’m not going to be able to suddenly change peoples minds. The best I can do is try to correct misinformation, but the facts seems to be known by most, and there are some healthy discussions going on.

And yes, I’m going to cherry pick posts which I have answers to. 😉

It’d be kind of funny though to instead pick posts I don’t have answers to.

I’m recording a DiabloWikiDiablo podcast on the RMAH controversy this weekend, with a for and an against guest. We’ll be covering every contentious topic, which should make for a lively conversation, though like Bashiok said in his post, I doubt any new arguments will change anyone’s mind. At least not the minds of people who are moralistically opposed to someone spending extra money (instead of extra time) to improve their D3 characters/play experience.

Personally, I’m more interested in the ramifications of the RMAH. Will it make it impossible to trade for a top item without first converting your trade materials into $? What’s going to happen when softcore items are going for $50 each, while HC items can only be traded for gold? Will the economy suffer horrendous deflation, as dedicated item hunters dump countless medium-high items for pennies, as they search for the few very top items that will command big $? Will account hacking/theft become an epidemic with an actual $ reward for succeding at it?

No one (including Blizzard) can do more than conjecture about those issues at this point. But it will certainly be interesting to see how this stuff plays out once the game’s released.

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  1. i see many accounts hacked , especially those of 14 year olds which use the credit card of mom or dad and getting scammed badly.
    …. i hate this pro RMAH argument the most:
    People would buy items anyway…. Its the same when i say people buy drugs anyway lets legalize them.
    its the same argument which blizzard is using for their fucked up money making. Why not use the usual pay/month i wouldnt mind at all. But this moneysystem just doesnt work for me. I will play hardcore and if my char dies because of a serverlagg i will quit it 😉

    • I’m sick of this example with drugs as this “community” is sick of PR answers. Your example would look some way smart if we would be talking about selling cheats, drophacks and so on. We punish drug sellers because they sell something illegal to produce – drugs. And items aren’t illegal to loot.
       
      Right example is an example with fishing. Let’s punish people for selling fish – you need no skill to buy fish, you just get your wallet and pay for fish. And I was fishing whole damn day – so unfair a guy can just buy fish for money!
       
      Blizzard provides chance for guys playing games to earn money. And that could be a job, same job as any entertainer job or most of the non-producing jobs. People want to be entertained – they pay for items someone else looted. But still these items aren’t exclusively made by Blizz – anyone can loot it. So the only advantage people with money get – they don’t need to spend so much time. Time is money. Blizzard just made fishing legal.

      • Your fishing example fails, because fishing isn’t a bad thing. The drug example fits more properly, since buying items to increase power is the same as cheating.

        • Your whole post fails cause selling items isn’t a bad thing. Nice argument?
           
          And since when looting items to increase power is not cheating? That’s just the matter of treating skill. The question is what we call skill and achievment in game? I see no skill in farming items. Just time spent. If the fact that someone can sit all day and farm and get advantage over you isn’t cheating, why the fact that someone can sit all day working and then spend money to get the same advantage is?
           
          Ok, for dummies better example: do you punish sportsmen for buying their equipment? Is that fair sportsman can buy his equipment instead of crafting it or looting it from other sportsman’s cold body? We’re measuring only his results on the field. And I doubt you would say his items don’t affect these results.

          This game is all about loot. But looting is not the skill. It’s a main source of fun. If you buy game and then buy fun – what’s the point? It’s just like buying a ticket to watch movie and instead of watching paying someone to tell you the whole story. Why not just pay someone to entertain you? Buying items doesn’t make someone skilled and neither “winner of the game”.

      • also you fail to see that the Items are after all generated by blizzard even if blizzard is not selling them directly.. its like a Fishfarm where Blizzard generates fishes magically out of thin air. now you can go fish. and trade with people who are also fishing there – but in the end you have to leave ~ 2-5% of your sales at entrance of the Blizzard fishfarm
        the fucking mastermind highlight of this “fairtrade” system is – that the magically generated fish is nothing worth – its worth as much as you are willing to pay for it because geez in the end you cant eat it its only fake. its virtual – its a dopamin placebo for your mind. and you are paying real money for this. and still dont see how this is fucked up ?

        • Ok, mr. Wise guy, are you paying real money for D3? Doesn’t the fact you pay money for virtual game look f’ed up?
           
          You don’t pay for items. You pay for the time someone spent farming it. It’s not “generated” by Blizzard. Same way you pay for some guy on your, I don’t know, wedding or anything. He doesn’t say anything new, you can say the same thing by your own. Everything that he says is “virtual”, you can’t touch it. He entertains you. And you pay for that. World around you is f’ed up for a long time, wake up.

          • “Ok, mr. Wise guy, are you paying real money for D3? Doesn’t the fact you pay money for virtual game look fucked up?”


            who are you kidding ? – you are only fooling yourself or you are too dense to see the real point.
            Ofcourse the game itself and any content Blizzard Worker ever created for it, is Real – the Story / Lore ,  programing, cinematics , gameart ;special effects , terrain, model ,animation – Game design. these are all processes which took ressources , Work hours , creativity and expertise. as real as any Movie , Book , or Music.mp3 . i never implyed that any of this work is not worth paying for. im not saying im “pro pirating” or “anarchy !” / “fuck the system!” because hell its only virtual data.


            “You don’t pay for items. You pay for the time someone spent farming it. It’s not “generated” by Blizzard.”

            and yes. absolutely all items are generated by blizzard . thats a fact. Blizzard can influence the array of what you can have in your inventory and how fast – as easy as changing one fucking number in a droptable. they can change those numbers on  a whim and they will. – with , or without you noticing.
            Blizzard essentially just invented its own currency. and they can print as much of it as they want. and the only way they are measured is with people like you. not only can Blizzard print as much of it as they want. they can also fight the inevitable inflation by mixing it up with “Mudflation” thus not only can they increase the quantity but also the quality of there virtual goods.
            (e.g. 3 months into the game – the market is relatively swamped with with the average item which is considered to be “top notch” eg. shako. overall a very good item , but not terribly rare. ; so Blizzard  decides to do the Community a favour of pure goodwill *wink* and decides to release an all new Item-tier !
            *poof* the value of the Diablo 3 money suddenly skyrockets. in relation to real money , that is. pretty convenient isnt it ?.
            Blizzard generates (prints) all Items (its own currency).
            whenever an item drops Blizzard is merely running an mundane duplication process – a process more simple faster and electricty efficient than flicking on a lightbulb.(=|= Itemdesign) nothing more. and your virtuous farmer , is not a real labourer he is merely  at the mercy of Blizzard with all the drops he ever finds – he is a begger and middleman for the wares Blizzard producces out of thin air.
            its not nature who grows the items in a an complicated process as real and old as the world itself. its no form of mutual social consensus of what is considered morally worthwhile / traditional. (to come back to your wedding example) . It is merely Blizzard setting the condition boundaries. and the only winner of this market is Blizzard. and those who consider themself winner because they are reckless enough to believe such a deal worthwhile. in reality you are only paying for a process of duplication a task that simple – it will run billions of times  every day when d3 launches.
            all items that will be “provided” by other people via RMT are nothing which is essential for a game to be fun in general , those items can be easily provided via the ingame-currency- Auctionhouse and/or adjusted droprates. but that would mean that Blizzard would miss out on a opportunity to steal earn money many people are foolish enough to pay for. ( ye i know im not here to make friends anyway)

             
            another point i havent brought up yet. if this real money Auction house is all about free market and honest labour etc.  why is blizzard planning to limit the maximum amount of auctions one is able to do in a week?
            wouldnt it be fair if chinese mass farmer were given a chance to build  some kind of monopoly ? i mean isnt that exactly how the free market works ? supply and demand ? outsourcing labour ( i mean Intel , Nike, Nokia. all those companies do that ) ? i mean you “mp” claim that Items are not generated by blizzard thus they have to somehow  have, some kind of measurable worth in the real world. if that is so – why does Blizzard want to control this market ? why wouldnt it be perfectly natural if chinese gold farmer inflate the market ? (and still make a decent profit for their standarts).

            “Same way you pay for some guy on your, I don’t know, wedding or anything. He doesn’t say anything new, you can say the same thing by your own. Everything that he says is “virtual”, you can’t touch it. He entertains you. And you pay for that.”

            wow  thats the best one – dont insult my intelligence with your loophole logic – the end does not justify the means. and just because YOU are contempt to pay for getting fooled does not mean that it is suddenly a standart. think back to the previous points :
            1. Blizzard could provide desireable items without a payed service
            2. Blizzard wants to control the market via maximum amount of trades in order to prevent rapid inflation due to chinese mass farmer.
            i mean if i pay a day laborer for his service at harvesting at a strawberrie field or whatever, i can exactly measure what has been done. your analogy on the other hand is more like paying someone to harvest my Browsergame Farmville strawberries. these items are only worthwhile in the set context of the game. and the personal relation you alone have to it.

            World around you is fucked up for a long time, wake up.

            if your loophole logic works out for you sure go with it. i mean if you dont even realize  Blizzard is printing money how would you realize you are wrong. sure if you are contempt with getting scammed its no longer scam right ? i know alot of fun things i can do with 5,10,20 or  50 euro – and i know that i like those things equally well in 1 year from now. but can you justify and cope with the ideal that item x , you payed 10 euro for is only worth 1 euro in  3 months ?  

            and blizzard will be the only one who will have a guaranteed profit in this.


      • illegally is decided by people.
        Selling items is a bad thing in my eyes, yes.
        For the drugthingy. You always come up with your perfect politically correct phrases so i am not wasting my time to make a real comparison, BRO. i know its not the same as selling drugs but to some extend it is.

        and yes i know that i will buy something if i dont find it myself. I hate to admit it, but i will. Its not because i cannot find the items myself, i just dont care about the 100€ i am spending for different items.
        And its not like i will loose those 100€ i am spending , i can resell the items again, only bad if the price drops 😉

      • “We punish drug sellers because they sell something illegal to produce – drugs.

        And items aren’t illegal to loot.”

        so, it was ok to buy items from 3rd parties in D2 ?

        • > i am not wasting my time to make a real comparison, BRO.
          I’m so scared of this real world comparision. It will kill my little pink unicorn inside that’s protecting me from this cruel world.
           
          > so, it was ok to buy items from 3rd parties in D2 ?
          I don’t know. I believe it was, the thing is Blizzard is free to treat it as they want and I respect their choice. They were trying to protect everyone’s fun, but if someone wants to ruin his own fun (that’s the point, he’s not affecting anyone’s else fun actually) – he’s free to do it legally now.
          However there was one thing that was affecting others’ fun – PKing. But now it’s gone. I believe that’s one of the reasons we got to treat D3 differently.

          Someone was making money on D2 and will make money on D3. You can’t stop it, you’ll need one moderator for every player to watch their actions.
          What Blizzard did is they admited your gear doesn’t measure your skill and they made it possible for every player to earn money. Getting better items doesn’t depend on your teamwork or anything else. Of course better players earn items faster. And it still doesn’t mean they earn better items. Drops are random, it’s still a matter of time and luck.
           
          There’s one simple point: if in a game anyone with better loot (of course I’m not talking about difference between lvl40 and lvl60, I’m talking about loot for the same character level) can win you no matter how much better you play – there’s no point in playing that game at all. And there’s no difference how did he get these items.

    • yeah that’s the one aspect that makes me shudder. A DC on a HC at the wrong moment… I’d rage so hard

    • The point of the game is finding loot, not buying it! Once you introduce money into the equation, it stops becoming fun. People will treat the game differently.

      – Some will try to turn it into a business
      – Some will be overcome by the real money and sell items they normally would keep
      – Some will sell items instead of helping friends/family out
      – Very rare items will most likely be traded on the Real Money system only. If not, the price for them under the gold system will dramatically increase
      – The quest to cheat will be even more impelling, because they want to make money (bots, hackers, scams)

      There are several other factors and I’m sure they will take their toll on the game. How significant will they be? Who knows? Only time will tell.

  2. I haven’t really been following the debate that closely, but are most of the people against RMAH the ones who are really into PvP? I mean I’m not a huge fan of it either, but i’m not a huge fan of a lot of things (like cauldron for example), but I guess I will just play the game the way I want to. As in, i won’t be buying items with $, and i will recall to town or whatever and sell my items directly to the vendor.

    So again, is it the pvp players that are worried, and are they worried about the unfair advantage that others will have because they chose to spend real caysh on good items? D2 was the same deal, except it was 3rd party vendors. Duel games were filled with hammerdins boasting matching pcombat charms and what not. Although I imagine more people will be using RMAH if it exists vs random 3rd party sites.

    • I think PvP gets mentioned a lot because it’s a defensible argument, regardless of whether or not the person using it as an example actually intends to PvP.  They don’t like the system and are looking for points they can use in discussion as to why they think it’s wrong or unfair and even though it might get tiring for some to hear “You can buy wins in PvP now.” it’s still better then hearing “Well I don’t like it so it should be removed.”
      Now on the subject of of how much of an impact it will have on PvP is another discussion.  Although I believe skill > gear I do accept that many times items will create a barrier of entry for fair play (enigma for example.)

      • At first I was one of those people yelling “RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!” about pvp and what not but then I actually sat back, cooled off and thought about what Jay Wilson was saying. After doing these things it made sense. I don’t believe it will effect pvp the way that most are thinking due to a couple of reasons. A.) There is no real ranking and even loosing constantly will get you reward. B.) It pairs you up with people of equal gear and skill. If anything only the first few matches you played would be bad- if you stuck it out you would then be placed against others who didn’t use the RMAH. I suppose this is why Bashiok asked what winning is because in this game- EVERYONE wins. Idk, just my thoughts on the matter.

    • Yeah if PvP was meaningful they might have a point.  But it’s not.  You don’t get gear, experience, rankings, or anything of value from pvp other than the sheer fun of participating.  Also because of the way matchmaking works, people who consistently are “buying” wins will find themselves facing other people “buying wins” or others of superior skill.  It’s not like someone is going to go on a colossal winning streak because they dumped $10 into the auction house.

  3. Looking forward to the podcast

  4. @ Wide Format
    I think some are also upset at the thought of merging RL with game play.  Now, every item that drops will trigger the mental script, “How much is this worth on RMAH”.  It takes away from immersion, and, well, relaxation.  I often see the argument that people have always sold their items, so this will be no different.  Bull shit.  A small fraction of people did that, because it took time, risk and some bit of know-how.  With time and risk removed, many more people will be participating in RM sales.  Could be good, could be bad.  Personally, I’d almost rather not have the temptation, as I just know that I would sell a high value item, if found.

    • I guess so. Every time i saw those ads in D2 i would think things like, ‘who the hell would spend their hard earned money buying a virtual item?” i just thought only the really desperate or really determined/obsessed would go and buy stuff, and yeah they took a risk dealing with that site. I mean yeah i wanted some pcombat charms but i would never go out and buy one.

      In that sense I wanted to keep re-rolling baal GCs until i got one, which definitely kept me interested in playing. Yeah key running and MF was monotonous but the thrill of seeing gold elite items on the ground is pretty awesome.

      I remember i was trading with one guy, 2hr for unid Torch, and he bought like 50HR and didn’t know crap about them, i could have probably gotten higher runes that i wanted but my conscience kicked in. But i was thinking wow he’s pretty noobish and he’s going to have top gear by spending some dollars, but does he know the true value of taking the time to go out and find them? You can still trade for good gear, but you still need some equivalent good gear to trade with, which takes time and dedication (or luck).

    • Every item that drops?  Really?  The magical axe you find at the beginning of act 1 going to net you $5 on the RMAH is it?  Your hyperbole makes it hard to take anything you say seriously.
      If anything the addition of the RMAH makes rare drops that much more exciting, knowing that you can try it out for a bit, and then sell it for $ if it doesn’t work for your build/playstyle.

  5. I think it’s mainly come to this question:
     
    What is diablo all about? I could remember that many people said that diablo was about getting that best gear, so you could show off, always trying to maxing out.
     
    However, now with RMAH, what is diablo now? What does endgame now consist of? It definitely is not about getting the best gear anymore since you can buy it… Pvp is also not the answer because Jay Wilson said they won’t focus on it and with the power being heavily connected to one’s gear. What’s left then? Just farm items and sell it for money? That doesn’t sound like a game right? It sounds more like a job.
     

    • In d2, the only people that had real bragging right were the hardcore people. And with only a for gold AH on the hardcore side in D3, I’m saying thats where the bragging right will be.

      The coolest stories I read abou tin D2 were the battles for first hardcore max level, and some of the wierd melee sorc and pacifist necromancer. 🙂

      People shouldn’t use the PvP argument against Gold AH. Because its not a game fine tuned for PvP. The PvP is there to let people have fun, and middle ground settlement between the people that want to PvP/grief and the people that don’t want to PvP or be griefed.

      My main argument against the people ranting over the RMT AH is that, it will happen anyway (and did in D2), and you don’t have to use any of the AHs.

      Would be funny to hear if the people that are against the RMT AH are pro gold AH. Because thats just naive. If I can provoke a bit I would say that either you are for item trading in general or against item trading. In any form.

      Since if you allow one form of item trading, there will be people doing it for real money.

  6. I was one of the banned. He just banned me without any warning, and without a concrete reason. My 11 year old classic D2 key is banned on that forum, any the reason is “Other”. Oh well.

    Edit: oh, I forgot to say, I got a permanent ban. Not temporary (if that exists..). So yeah, you guys better be careful of what you say out there, looks like Bashiok didn’t liked the increased activity lastest news made on that forum…

    • Well… without really seeing what you EXACTLY wrote there to get the bad. I don’t know if it was a fair or unfair ban.

      • Heh. Just to end your curiosity: I wrote on a thread where somebody was happy about what Bashiok said something like this:
        “Cooool man let’s buy all our gear and then…. then…. I don’t know!! But it will be so cooooooooollll!!”
        I know I’m not innocent but a permanent ban without a warning? Really? I’ve seen nastier shit there…. And after all I was just expressing my opinion on the matter. RMAH just killed the purpose of the game for me.

  7. i dont gonna lie i hate real money trading – the raw idea makes me shiver. sure its only player to player trading , but in the end blizzard generates the items (VIRTUAL items.)  and will get a decent share of the money involved. they also dont want to set up non RMT servers – so that the shmocks dont feel like aliens and keep pumping money into blizzard .
    so in the end you can say whatever you want about this feature. everything of it points more bling for blizzard. and nothing else. for me it destroys everything which makes a game a lighthearted free time activity.
    and i also dont care that there was realmoney trading for d2 – in the end the problem got only bad because of bots dupes and generally the fact that the trading in diablo 2 was relatively unconfortable.
    for me its like the fight against drugs – you can’t totally stop it – but you still have to fight it, the fact that it is illegal already adds a  inhibition threshhold – couple that with the inconvenience and the insecurity and great deal of people will already be discouraged from using those third party sites.
    but that would mean that blizzard would miss out on getting a share of the drugs they are producing – so now they deciced to also sell them “legally” for real money ofc.
    that being said – i will now only play hardcore – not because iam thrilled to lose everything when i die – but atleast i dont have to play with RMT people – not that i am too horribly disgusted with them, but atleast its a way to show that i wont take that BS. i no longer expect diablo 3 to be what diablo 2 was – i would lie if i said iam not looking forward for the finished game – but im pretty sure that i wont play it as much as i played d2
    btw, i personally think that the “always being online DRM” and no Modding also boils down to the possibility that you might tumble into the Real money auctionhouse eventually even if didnt intend to use it in the beginning. because hell bling $$$.

  8. Stop defending, it’s time to attack!
    Stop execution!
    Give us release date and defend any shit you want.

  9. lol people are such pricks, bashiok does his job as well as he can, it’s not like he has a decision in what goes in the game or not, his arguements are all solid.

  10. Debating over this shit is pointless.  Blizzard is gonna do whatever the **** they want.

  11. I`m all for this RMAH ,makes finding that uber rare perfect unique item even more exciting. nuff said

  12. How would hackers even know who to target?  Auction house posters are anonymous.  Even if you inspected someone and saw their sweet, sweet gear, there is no way to go from character name to realid unless they tell you (assuming it is like SC2).  Finally with the free authenticator, account hacking will hopefully be a lot less prevalent, even if they are able to somehow find a way to determine a target.

  13. Blizzard has made it quite clear over the last few days that they don’t give a damn what anybody says.
    They think they can mold and create a community, which would be funny if it weren’t so depressingly stupid.
    The sacrifice is our options and freedom as gamers.

    They are basically saying “If you don’t agree with this, we don’t welcome you as part of our community”, to put it more kindly than they have.

  14. @WhiteGiant

    1.  What’s with the whole hate for making profit off of virtual things?  This has been done by many other people for a long, long time.  

    Also, how do you know how much money they will receive per transaction?  Do you have access to information the rest of us do not?  No, you’re just assuming.  We know that there will a fee for posting a RM auction (after you use up your free posts, of course).  We know that there will be a fee on a successful auction, and we know there will be a fee if you want to cash out your money THAT YOU EARNED BY PLAYING A GAME YOU BOUGHT THAT THEY MADE to your bank account.  We don’t know how much these fees will be, whether they are flat or a % (as far as I know), but I’m pretty sure they won’t be ridiculous, in either case.  Blizzard is not stupid.  They want to attract more consumers, not drive them away.  They will make it a feature that people will want to use because it is good, not disgust them by attaching exorbitant fees and making the feature useless.

    2.  You’re letting a single feature that will have nil effect on your gameplay ruin a whole game for you?  This was somehow different with RMT that took place outside of Blizzards domain in D2?  Both games had the same feature.  Do not twist this fact.  The only difference is that Blzzard is making it a service accessible to people who want it (and there is obviously a market for it), and it will be safe.  Yeah, that totally ruins the game for me.  

    3.  So, drugs…  Blizzard is selling the drugs.  If you want the drugs, you can go work for them.  Basically, you have to search around the factory for randomly placed packets of drugs.  Sometimes you find a lot, sometimes no so much.  These drugs also help you get better at finding more drugs, oddly enough.  However, some people don’t want to search for the drugs inside the factory.  There’s a variety of reasons why they don’t want to join in the search with you.  Maybe they don’t have the time, maybe they work at another drug factory but want to join their friend at the Blizzard factory on occasion…  Either way, you walk outside the factory and see these people buying the drugs instead of searching for them and are outraged… why?  Oh, because that’s illegal.  Because you said so.

    Right.

    Get over yourself.

    Oh, you’ll only play hardcore?  You mean, you’ll still buy the game, give Blizzard your money.  But then you’ll go and play a mode that won’t have the RMAH in it.  Yeah, that’ll show Blizzard who’s the boss!  Ever think about… just not using the RMAH?  Or just not buying the game all together?

    4.  The always online and no modding probably has more to do with the fact that it splits the user base up, and they won’t have any sort of means to control the quality of the gameplay.

    • Same casually awful arguments I’ve read everywhere else.
      You cannot say it will have no impact on gameplay. Logically, it should have a big impact on the economy, alone. How big of an impact remains to be seen, yes, but it’s kind of ignorant to claim otherwise.

    • omfg , why do you take that so seriously ?
      I mean selling drugs and items, there is a differnce ofc…. you dont have to remind me of that.
      And i just h8 how they presented and argumented the RMAH, they should have known that it will cause an uproar in the community.

      more nerding plz

      • “And i just h8 how they presented and argumented the RMAH”
        Lol, who is taking it so serious here?
         
        And I see no reason for them to give a damn about what everybody says (actually it’s so funny, why the hell should the fact they protect their opinion mean “they don’t give a damn about everybody says”?). If you don’t agree with them – you quit, you’re not their community anymore. That’s not about community being a pet for developpers that’s about devs not being a pet for community.
         
        “You cannot say it will have no impact on gameplay.”
        Can I? Ok, I’ll do it by my self. It will have no impact on gameplay. At all. If you go to Arena and lose to someone who has better loot you can’t tell did he buy it or did he farm it. No one can join your game and kill you. Their items affect only your ego. And that has nothing to do with real money.
         
        Is it so hard to understand what those who farm items will be always ahead? Cause they’re are selling these items. That means they got better ones. Cause you won’t sell item that will give you possibility to farm faster and so get even more money. But economy and all that bs doesn’t affect your own gameplay experience.

    • 1. so getting scammed isn`t scam if you dont realize it ? if i bought; say a puppet at a flea market i think to be rare and precious it is ok to pay thousand of dollars for it ? even if the puppet is in reality a chinese mass product which does not even meet the health standarts for flexibilizer and gets produced under unfair working conditions ?
      – do you really think blizzard is a pure hearted samarita who has our desire for made up imaginary values in mind ? if the Real Money Auction house is not modelled to be profitable , they would never have started it. why would they ?
      2. ye i think the goverment should definitively legalize all drugs and sell them ! i mean man who wants to deal with shady filthy drugdealers. i mean gee everyone in the society knows whats best for him right ?! i mean we all know most of them are addictive – and after all its our body we destroy not the goverment`s one right ?
      my point was , that the inhibition threshold , inconvinience and insecurity of third party item buying was enough to discourage most people from ever trying it – even if they had money to burn for it .
       
      3. i think that drugs are a pretty good analogy.(if you dont try to patheticly twist it in whatever irrational logic you want it to have , that is) because drugs immediatly induce some kind of chemical based emotion – no one of us can help but notice it because its more intense than what you would ever be used too if you took none.
      the emotional up you get from having a sense of archievement isnt at all different ( less intense ofcourse ) but the same none the less. i mean everything you need, to have that emotional state of archievement is already there right ?. i mean if the game is balanced very well and you were not neurotic enough to feel missing out. why would you ever consider buy items for real money ? its like sex – you will always have an irrational need for it beyond reproduction purposes still – its always better when its free right ?
      also i dont think its paradox to deny the RMT service alone – in the end it has pay for itself to be considered profitiable – and if hypotheticaly no one would use it – the message would be clear – but than again there are enough reckless neurotic people who feel they miss out if they dont have that item so desperately they would pay real money for it.
      i mean just because you hate 1 dish in a resturant you dont avoid the entire resturant all together.
      and just because you try to cheapshot me with pathetic idioms your arguments dont gain any weight whatsoever – try again.
       
      4. well by your logic – wouldnt that be perfect ? – i mean the people who share the same opinion as i do could all play together in perfect harmony . and the people of your kind could play together in perefect harmony , right ? i mean for me that sounds like a perfect textbook example of harmony. your kind could sell and buy from one another for real money what ever you want , and my kind could play the game we think its meant to be played.

      well ye but you are right it wouldnt be like this. it wouldn`t be harmonic . eg. the cycling-sport (eg. Tour de france) we all know there is doping in cycling. every sportsman would consider it disreputable ; still a bunch of people do it anyways with varying degree of succes.
      Blizzard splitting up the RMT community from the rest of the community would be like , legalizing doping in the tour de france ; everyone in the tour de france would be tested for doping , if a cycler dopes he would only be measured with those who also dope ; and those who do not dope will only be measured with there kind. (just like weight class in boxxing)

      WAIT WHAT ?! that would make the doper suddenly feel stupid right ?! i mean they waste money and destroy their body only to have a challange which is still equally hard ? – why would they bother doping then to begin with right ?
      and this is why Blizzard is not splitting the community in “RMT” and “non-RMT” it would not work even though there would be enough people to do it in theory. but those RMT people would feel like freakish aliens – and being looked down upon for being a freakish shmock alien is not good for Blizzard`s business – not one bit.

  15. I took time to make points, you could do the same.  Instead, you elect to put down my post without actual reasoning.  However, I will respond to what little you said.

    I can say it will have no real effect on gameplay.  Diablo 3 is not a competitive money-earning game, like, say, League of Legends.  There will be no esport with Diablo 3.  The only competition is in matchmaking, and any advantage people who use the RMT get will place them squarely against people of similar skill. It’s already been stated that the arena PvP system will not really be balanced and looked at seriously, so it’s not like you’ll be playing within the confines of a finely tuned machine.

    What economy will this impact?  The two auction house systems are separate.  Unless you mean something different.

    • Who the **** said that there will be no esport in d3 ? Who decides that always in advance ? Dota, CS1.6 ect. werent designd for esports aswell. Those are just fun games! We, the community, make the esports. If you dont follow esports you shouldnt bother anyway…and which advantage do you get in LOL from just bying things ?Really, none. You will be just as noobish as you were before.
      But i understand your point.

      • Blizzard themselves said that they were not officially sanctioning D3 as an esport.  Competitions might be held, I suppose, but people who go to those private tournaments will most likely already be geared to the teeth.

  16. Anyone using “Diablo 3” and “pay to win” in the same sentence is a moron, at best.

  17. These asinine arguments physically hurt me. Poor Bash.
     

  18. People act like this never happened in d2, the only difference is that now blizzard is taking over the market.
    For those that still play d2..imagine if blizzard did RMAH all along, and could of used that money to boost d2’s servers?
    I think this is a wonderful way to fund servers into the future vs p2p.

  19. Frankly the RMAH will not do anything to change how I play the game.  I never once traded in D2, was to busy doing my own farming and swapping items with friends to care what other people did.  For me, items will be treated very much the same as in D2, with only one minor change near the end.
    Step 1: Look at my item
    Step 2: Decide if it’s an upgrade
    Step 3: If it is, use it, if not, go to Step 4
    Step 4: See if it is an upgrade for a friend.  If not, go to step 5
    Step 5: Figure out if it’s in the right level range to see if it’s useful crafting fodder.  If not, go to step 6
    Step 6: See if it’s worth anything on the RMAH.  If not, go to step 7
    Step 7: Turn it into gold
    So yea, only Step 5/6 is a new one on my list.  Realistically I will almost never even bother looking inside the RMAH.  I will not be purchasing gear with money, but I have nothing against turning gear I can’t use into a quick buck.  Sounds great to me, free money.  Heck, level 60 end-game farming could become downright lucrative. Maybe in a few months D3 will have paid for itself 🙂

    • Such a good post!

      My prio list looks like yours, and I have no problem with the RMAH. Since I most likely won’t use it.

      It would be fun to hear if some of the people that are the most vocal against RMAH if they are against item trading all together, of if they are purists that would never use an item they didn’t had drop them self.  

      I have no problem with people having better gear than me, to me it look like that some of the most vocal people against AH think that their gear gets worse if someone has the same or better gear.

      Its all a bit confusing to me that you can care so much about gear. The gear fun to collect but get journey and the way you get it is most of the time more interesting to hear about.

  20. Is it just me or is flux still crying over not being invited to the press event? almost every major news post on the forum is about people bashing blizzard over the RMAH with flux pretty much pushing in their direction as well. =(

    • Nobody here cried over anything. The press event is no big deal, we have done tons at Blizzard in the past, this was no different. What you are getting is unbiased reporting on the issues of this week.

    • Yeah I’ve noticed this too Deadcell. But I’m thinking it’s not because he was left out of the press event (that would be pretty pathetic if it were – I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt here).

      I think the reason is because he might feel the same way as the others who have issues with Blizzard going in this direction.

      @Rushster: Flux refering to Bashiok’s replies as being “PR style answers” and that people are getting sick of it says a lot imo. What I see is Bash stating the facts and their reasoning to their decisions. What I see from everyone else is fear talking. It’s getting really old.

      • Bashiok is often a jerk in the way he answers questions

        here is Bashiok answering a post that complained that the new skill system gets rid of customization

        Quote:
        So you figured out it’s better to pump all your points into one or two skills. What a smart gamer you are.

        How long do you think it would have taken even bad players to look up on a website that it’s the best way to play a game where skills have to scale with more points?

        We’ve been playing the game, we know what skill points were causing, and it was not interesting and unique builds. It was not meaningful customization. It was maxing out a couple skills, and that’s it. It was Diablo II. What we have now actually forces people to make interesting choices, to craft interesting builds based on very strict limitations.
        end quote
         

      • A lot of them are PR style answers, which is fine, but not everyone is satisfied with that as they are looking for full explanations. Bashiok’s job is to ultimately calm the community down and try and explain things. Simply defuse any frustration or anger. Best way of going that? PR style answers becuase that’s pretty much all he can do 🙂

        He can also come accross a little aggressive sometime as pointed out above, but I think a lot of that is out of frustration with some comments.

        I have had lunch with Bashiok in the past and chatted to him quite a bit and he’s a nice guy so I think it’s frustration more than anything else. He’s not a big meanie.

    • It’s just you Deadcell.

  21. I don’t know what is so hard to understand. Blizzard wants you online 24/7 so you can be tempted to use the RMAH. They will not come out tell you the truth ” yes we want part of the profits goldsellers make”. I mean seriously, use some common sense. Oh and yes, ofcourse accounts will be tried to be hacked into. When are they not when dealing with real money ? The RMAH is such a failed idea for fans because there is no way Blizzard is going to be able to protect them 100% of the time not to mention, the RMAH causes so many balance issues with the game.

    • I’m honestly tired of hearing these ludicrous conspiracy theories.
      The RMAH will probably only return a profit large enough to pay for the maintenance fee for Diablo 3. That’s great news for us, because this will help keep Battle.net up to date. The arguments against RMAH are honestly weak. Balance was never a concern in Diablo. Diablo is the game where your friend can give you a whole set of armor right at the start. The account hacking is another concern, but it’s nothing new. I do my banking online. All my money goes through that banking account, and it’s more vulnerable than my Bnet account (I have an authenticator + 1 that came with SC2 collector editior :P). Someone that intends to place 100$ on their account should probably consider buying the affordable authenticator.

      …and don’t start saying it’s all a scheme to sell more authenticator. I’ve heard it before.

      • When you actually know what you are talking about please post something that is viable ? Battle.net has a maintenance fee ? Are you serious ? The original Bnet servers ran for over 10 years with no RMAH fees whatsoever. I hate it when people post crap that they know nothing about in the first place.

        Balance was always an issue.

        Hacking of accounts will happen

        Blizzard inserts the RMAH to grab a piece of the millions of dollars goldsellers make

        There is no conspiracy, its just fanboy denial.

        • Are you trying to say that battle.net doesn’t cost Blizzard anything to maintain? LOL. Wake up.

        • LOL. JUST L-O-L. Free battle.net. ROFL. NO COMMENTS. Made my day.
          Ok, one huge comment: do you actually know how much does it cost to rent server for just a website? For a website you’re maintenaning for 10 years and receive no money for it for about 3 years? For a simple game server running all day? For a game you receive almost no money for about 5 years? Do you know how much does it cost to pay to people in support for providing secure money transactions and solve occuring problems? How about hating your-self for posting crap?

        • Hacking might have happend yes, but was is mass phishing or hacking with a specific target in mind. I’m pretty sure it was phishing where people getting hacked were people without an authenticator and poor maintenance of thier brower software, flash updates and no addblocks.

          And ofcause there is a maintenance fee for running battle.net. Blizzard just paid for it out of thier own pockets. Do you really think running servers are free? There is internet bandwidth, electricity bills, server maintenance staff ect ect.

          Until we know about how big the list items fee will be, which is there to protect from people dumping loads of crap on the RMAH like on WoW AHs, and untill we know how big a the selling cuts will be stop making up numbers like millions of dollars. Sure it could turn out to be millions of dollars, but noone knows for sure.

  22. Well I for one am looking to turn this into a nice little side business 8) Gonna be fun! (At some point I spent more time playing the AH in WoW than the game itself. Needless to say I made quite some dough after a while!)

  23. My problem with those recent revelations is that all those changes are meant to work with each other but not for the benefit of the game or players, but to justify each others existence. Until now Blizzard was doing incremental changes to certain game systems (they have been for over 3 years) in order to make them better for us to enjoy. Now, just before beta (and launch) we learn that they’ve turned everything upside down:

    Removing skills = Less character customization – don’t get fooled by Bashioks PR speak, it means just that and point 3 is the crown argument for it. What this also means is shifting WHOLE character customization into items/runes which brings us to:

    Real Money Auction House = Blizz is used to having stellar income from WoW and I’m sure they weren’t exactly satisfied with how SC2 performed financially for them (recent merger of realms means both that people stop playing and the number of new copies sold dwindled). So in order to fix that in their next big hit they haphazardly introduce a steady income source after they have already been paid ! It was a greedy, money grabbing decision dictated by some corporate drone that seen the recent numbers for SC2 and ordered Diablo 3 game designers to \fix it\.

    Rune affixes and randomization = this fiasco shows exactly how unprepared and sudden are previous changes. They made stupid game design decisions for money and now desperately try to make up for it by injecting ‘more variety’ in places/systems where it wasn’t there for the last 3 years. That’s why you hear Bashiok shouting ‘there is more customization then there ever was’ but not exactly saying how did they achieve that, because he doesn’t know himself cause they are still trying to make it work!

    I’d also like to point out that since Blizz is taking a cut from each sale, their attitude towards cheaters/bots might change. As long as people play their game and buy stuff from RMAH they don’t give a shit from who the items come….

    All those \answers\ coming from Bashiok is a classical corporate PR speak and spin, if you ever worked in big corp you’d understand how it works, unfortunately most players haven’t and they’ll obidiently belive everything Blizz sells them \for their own good\.

    And remember kids, if you’re ever confused about anything \follow the money\ 8)

    • They didn’t remove skills, kid. They removed skill points. The fact that you don’t need to click on “level up skill” button doesn’t mean there will be less customization. People are arguing here for a lot of time already. The only classical PR speak here is yours. No proof, no point, conspiracy theories of “BIG CORPS”.

      And it’s obvious you don’t know some people got 2 copies of SC2 due to region merge. For example they’ve provided free copy of eu-account for those who bought russian account. And after merge they didn’t take second account back. So many people now have a second account to play with friends just for free.

      • Actually removing skill points does in fact remove customization. It’s simply one less thing to customize. While I don’t think the removal of stat points was a big deal, the removal of skill points is troubling. Diablo 2 had skill points, and after synergies were added, can you name me one skill that was not viable in diablo 2? With exception to maybe charged bolt sentry, and blade sentinel? Even with those two skills, they were definitely fixable. Blizzard does not want to balance all of these skills to scale with skill points. It must be way easier to just have them scale with levels/items.

  24. Blizzard quote:
    Playing StarCraft II legitimately means playing with an unaltered game client. Doing otherwise violates our policies for Battle.net, and it goes against the spirit of fair play that all of our games are based on. We strongly recommend that you avoid using any hacks, cheats, or exploits. Suspensions and bans of players that have used or start using cheats and hacks will begin in the near future.

    *

    Where is the fair play in having the best item… bought?

  25.  

    Blizzard quote:
    Playing StarCraft II legitimately means playing with an unaltered game client. Doing otherwise violates our policies for Battle.net, and it goes against the spirit of fair play that all of our games are based on. We strongly recommend that you avoid using any hacks, cheats, or exploits. Suspensions and bans of players that have used or start using cheats and hacks will begin in the near future.

    *

    Where is the fair play in having the best items… bought?

    • I forgot to mention…

      The move by Blizzard to make AH anonymous was f’ing brilliant.

      They can just overload the economy with Legendaries, high level runes, etc. when their wallets starts to hurt!

      Quick profit $$$

      <3

      • And if that were thier intention, why didn’t they just sell highend raiding PVE gear, and PVP gear for real money in WoW?

        A lot more people playing that that are willing to pay in some way for items. See the pets and mounts.

        • Because it influences gameplay which is exactly why Blizzard didn’t sell highend raiding PVE gear and PVP gear for real money.

          Why? Because then wallet plays into progression. Why raid for 5 hours when I can open up my wallet and get it in 5 minutes?

          It’s unfair – Blizzard knew it. It would be counter productive and subscription would probably go down. They would lose $$$.

          Which is why I said anonymous AH is the perfect solution (for Blizzard) to hide such activities.

          All you said was support what I mentioned above O_O!

    • Where is alteration of the game client or hacking in buying items? Or do you read only the bold text you want to highlight?

    • Where is the fair play in having the best items… giving to you by friends?

      Where is the fair play in having the best items… bought with in game gold, and not farmed the item yourself?

      • Because all these takes place within the game realm?

        Once you factor in real life advantages (i.e. fatter wallets), it no longer upholds “spirit of fair play”.

        Why else has Blizzard rabidly fought item purchasing and account buying/selling?

        Just as using hacks/cheats gives unfair advantages, having a larger wallet = better gear is also an unfair advantage.

        Many play Role Playing Games because they have the opportunity to immerse themselves in a fantasy world taking on the role as a hero. We essentially escape from reality – work, school, parents, spouse, etc. By introducing real world currency that influences game play, that fine line is broken. All of a sudden your paycheck matters. All of a sudden your parents/spouse matters (will they approve you spending $$$ for digital pixels/epeen?). When that line that separates the two is broken, all of a sudden it no longer is an RPG.

        Many fans will counter what I said above, but really – why has Blizzard rabidly fought against account/item selling/buying for the past 10 years? While a few players did participate in third party trades, many didn’t. Atleast the people that didn’t participate in it had the security of knowing that the actions of others weren’t sanctioned by Blizzard and that MY choice has nothing to do with my wallet.

        Now, the fact that Blizzard legalized it, all of a sudden that sense of security (or false security lol), no longer holds. Now, I feel pressured to open my wallet up to Blizzard. Why? Because the trading of digital pixels through real currency is sanctioned by Blizzard. See the big difference?

        People argue that either way, buying/selling will happen – like it or not. However, the stance that Blizzard takes is what makes or breaks for many that chooses to participate in RPGs (for reasons stated above).

        Some argue that we have a choice. Gold AH or RMAH. Well, if you’ve been reading until now, you’ll understand that this choice is nilt given the factors I have mentioned. I don’t know what Blizzard PR is feeding the public, but this game revolves around loot, trading, and e-peen. Why else does a perfect 3/20/20 small charm in D2 worth i.e. 10 times higher than 3/19/20, when in fact the benefits are negligible?

        Blizzard wants this game to be casual after the pull a stunt like RMAH? What a joke. The only thing RMAH is gonna do is fuel the competition until people feel that opening wallets = only way to advance in the quest for never ending perfection (atleast until you spend $2000 on pixels).

        Whoever is up at Blizz PR is doing a fantastic job – especially seeing how much of a following RMAH caused. It’s like we’re all lil’ kids still believing in Santa Clause cuz our parents (Blizzard) says so. Hope you guys will see the truth.

        Sorry for the wall of text.

        • “Once you factor in real life advantages (i.e. fatter wallets), it no longer upholds “spirit of fair play”.”

          But couldn’t people with a job then say that gaming D3 for more than 3 hours per day gives an unfair advantage to the people who can’t? So people without a job have an unfair real life advantage. People with fatter wallets most likely have less time to play, and vice versa. 

          “Why else has Blizzard rabidly fought item purchasing and account buying/selling?”

          Did you even see ebay and the amount of D2 items there? I know for a fact, a friend of mine sold items, that some people made several hundred dollars per month. There is little way Blizzard could check if someone sold a D2 for money if the item was farm in a legit way.

          Dupes is a different matter, which only online D3 play will help combat.

          “Many play Role Playing Games because they have the opportunity to immerse themselves in a fantasy world taking on the role as a hero. We essentially escape from reality – work, school, parents, spouse, etc.”

          I agree, and so do I.

          ” By introducing real world currency that influences game play, that fine line is broken.

          Now, I feel pressured to open my wallet up to Blizzard. Why? Because the trading of digital pixels through real currency is sanctioned by Blizzard. See the big difference?”

          You still have the option to not spend money on the RMAH. I never did spend money on D2 items. I have a steady job with an ok salary. I’m one of the people that could afford items. But you know what, I don’t think I ever will. Why you may ask. Because I play to have fun. Its much cooler to get the item yourself.

          But having a job a lot of times I feel pressured to play more than I have time for. Loosing sleep. Need to play more to get good items. Do I then go and petition Blizzard for a max play time per week, to make it easier for me to keep up with the players that have lots of time? No. Why? Because I’m not the one to decide how much they play.

          I feel a lot of the people against RMAH are thinking that if they farmed for X hours to get an item, that item will be worth less to their character than if 2 more people have it. Same happens alot in WoW. Sure more of the copies of the same item will mean less gold/RM value on the AH, but it has the same effect/value for your character. Doesn’t matter if 5 or 5000 people also have that item.

          I don’t care about my e-peen, but if I did there is much more glory on the hardcore side of D3, just like in D2. Softcore side its more about how much time you put into the game, so don’t feel pressured into buying items. You don’t have to. 

          The RMAH will have an affect on the gold only AH, but real money also had an effect on the D2 market. With Blizzard having a direct look into the market, it will be more fair.

          Only way to make sure real money doesn’t affect D3 economy in any way, is by having zero item trading at all in the game. I don’t think people will want that. 

          I will bet that even some people will pay real money for items to their hardcore character. 

  26. The RMAH reminds me of prohibition in the US. In d2 and wow, they restrict the sale of items. Whether that’s through botting bans or dupe patches, they never officially supported it by any means. The reason that was given to us is that it \creates an unfair advantage to certain players.\ Just like prohibition in America, blizzards tactics simply didn’t, and still do not work. These item sites do not operate by just using real people to farm items and whatnot. The item sites use bots, and various ways of duping to just mass produce the items. It’s like if the breweries in prohibition could create vats of beer in less than 30 minutes.

    While all of this is just my opinion, I think they could have done a much better job of handling d2’s security. That’s what it comes down to. And just like in prohibition, (with blizzard being the government) they’re going to sneak their fingers into the cookie jar. After all why not? They are the breweries now, creating the items based on luck and algorithms. The only people here who will gain is blizzard, and those lucky enough to find a dupe in diablo3, or create a league of bots, and fuck the market over while making dough.

    You know whats even funnier? Every single one of you people here FOR the RMAH, were perfectly content with just having a regular auction house. Even trading regularly, you were all pretty much content with. I just don’t understand it. If you look on every single forum BEFORE 8/1/11, there was NOTHING about the RMAH. Nobody suggested it. Nobody needs it. Nobody wanted it, with exception of blizzard.

    This is a point that absolutely nobody can deny: We do not need the RMAH in diablo3. You do not need to USE the RMAH in diablo3….

    But to play the game the way it’s supposed to be played, and to trade? Chances are for anything that is actually good, you’ll need to use the RMAH.

    /Steps off of soapbox.

  27. Now there is even more reason to respect HC players.

  28. Yes, I think most people are upset because it’s against everything gaming has ever stood for.
    In real life you already face shit like having more $$$ means being better. Now, Bobby Kotick in all his greediness, tries to do this in a game. And the worst part is, they try to portrait it as something ‘we gamers want’. Sure there are people out there who like the RMAH but there is also a big part who doesn’t.
     
    The Blizzard we all know and loved died when that merger with Activision happened. Funny that in all those stories of Blizzard games, the good guy gets corrupted. Maybe they sensed what was going to happen in the future?

    • “you already face shit like having more $$$ means being better.”
      You’re in a real trouble, boy. I feel sorry for you.

      • You won’t convince everyone your wallet don’t matter. Just accept it, and let those dollars come!

        The boy is right, now every player is downgraded to level of the few cheaters that existed on the past.

  29. Perhaps Bash is just having a hard time coming up with answers for things he doesn’t particularly agree on but has to act like he does because that’s his job. Poor guy; he’s got it the worst  :[

  30. Why do i hae the feeling that this game will have PVPers up in arms that the game isn’t balanced for PVP. Blizzard flat out said that they won’t balance the game for PVP. Don’t get me wrong I like PVP but with this new AH system and the fact that players can choose purchase Items with real money (Which still boggles my mind that players would use real money for items in a game. I’m Talking in reflection to Micro Transactions as well) To make their full sets or buy in-game currency with real cash? how absurd.

    Well I guess if you want to squander your money for needless things then I guess there isn’t much more important things in life for them. For me playing games is about my own time to “get out of the rut of life’
     
    As I’ve said there will be many pvp players complaining. I really hope this game doesn’t evolve to cater to the pvpers.

  31. I’m kind of at odds with this.  I can see both sides of the argument easily.  On the one hand, you have the hardcore gamer (like I was back in D1 and D2), playing 20 to 30 hours per week for years, advancing and gaining items of true Legendary status.  Now that I’m older, married, kids, etc. I know I won’t have even a 10th of the time to spend like I used to playing.  I still want to beat the game, but after a month or so and I’ve done that, the next course of action is collecting gear sets, crafting unique, and so forth.  I know the odds will definitely be against me collecting unique and legendary items via drop, as the algorithm goes in the favor of the player who logs in countless hours/days/weeks farming.  But would I fork over hundreds in real cash just to increase my character’s gear?   Heck no.  But I can see how the casual gamer would take advantage of that, as long as they have the money to do so.
    So there is the gist of the argument:  the players that WANT to spend all that time, as they did in D1 and D2, farming, playing, winning, exploring, and memorizing each and every fight combination necessary to battle each and every opponent…..they want it the same as it was in the past.  Then you have the casual gamers that want to spend real money to build up their character by purchasing unique gear instead of farming for, geesh, I recall spending weeks at a time in the exact same area, logging on, running there, farming farming farming.  That was WORK!  Now, they are making it so that is not needed, if you don’t want to do that.  So let me ask this:  are we upset because we blew months of our lives, time we could have been out having fun, going to school, sleeping, working, what have you, and were instead plowing through some obscure field in a game killing lizard men, when we could have bought that stuff instead of relying on it being randomly dropped?  Is it Blizzard’s fault we spent all that time doing that?  Are we jealous because we don’t need to do that any longer, we can just drop some of our real hard-earned cash on some rare battle axe, or field plate, and just go right back into the game with no more farming?  Did Blizzard take the fun out of the game, or make it easier for the casual gamer, in this immediate-gratification lifestyle everyone now has?  Is this the end of mass farming?  I’m not sure.
    All I know, I’ve waited a long long time for this game.  I am peeved I was not picked for Beta, maybe it is because I beta’d D2.  I will be buying this game, and playing as much as I can without having it interfere too much in RL.  However, I can honestly say that I will not be spending my $$$ on anything besides the initial game purchase.  If it goes as planned, in 5 or 10 years maybe I will be of sufficient level to gain great drops and auction them myself, once I have the game mastered inside and out.  My 2 cents anyway…

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