Blizzard offers Diablo 3 Paragon 2.0 Clarifications


Lylirra offered up a big post recapping all of the core details of the upcoming DiabloWikiParagon 2.0 system, since people keep asking and asking and asking the same questions. Her whole quote is below the fold, but I wanted to excerpt one part that’s a bit unclear.

Lylirra today:

Lylirra: …we’ve removed the innate bonuses granted by Paragon levels, and players will now earn Paragon Points every time they level up. These points can then be spent to boost up various stats in four different categories: Core Stats, Offensive, Defensive, and Adventure.

Travis Day earlier this week:

Players already earn bonus stats, magic find, and gold find when they earn a paragon level but we thought giving players more options and letting them choose what they wanted their bonus to be was just better all around. When you gain a paragon level in the new system you will receive a paragon point to spend…

I initially Travis’ post as saying we’d keep getting the same inherent bonuses, + paragon points. Since he doesn’t specifically say no inherent bonuses per level in Paragon 2.0. Lylirra does, so I guess we can take that as definitive. So when you ding a Sharagon level in the future system, your character(s) get nothing inherently. Only what you gain from spending the Paragon point.

Which leads to the next question… what happened to DiabloWikiGold Find? It’s not one of the 16 Paragon 2.0 bonus fields, while DiabloWikiMagic Find is. Will a player with Sharagon level 671 find the same size gold stacks as someone with their first character just into Inferno? (Assuming the same Monster Power level…)

Also, does the D3 dev team still have the goal of removing MF/GF as an item stat and putting it all into inherent bonuses for leveling up? That was one of their oft-stated goals of the initial DiabloWikiParagon system, but they haven’t said anything about it since the Paragon 2.0 conversation began, and with MF just one of the 4 bonuses in the DiabloWikiAdventure Tab, and arguably the least desirable of them all, it doesn’t seem like many players will have much MF other than what’s on their gear until they’re quite high into the Paragon Levels. And maybe no bonuses to Gold Find at all? Does that mean we’re going to finally see proper Magic Find gear in DiabloWikiLoot 2.0, with that bonus found mostly on specialty gear that delivers big bonuses to MG/GF with appropriate trade offs to the other stats? I can dream…

Click through for Lylirra’s full blue post with the Paragon 2.0 recap.

Alright, so. Let’s get everything into one place. 🙂

  • Paragon 2.0 is a work-in-progress.
  • All points below are as of current design.
  • Details are subject to change before Paragon 2.0 goes live.
  • More information will be made available as development continues.
  • – With Paragon 2.0, we’re making three significant changes to the Paragon system. The first is that we’re removing the cap on Paragon levels. Players can now earn as many Paragon levels as they please.

    – The second is that Paragon levels are now account-wide per game type. Game type = game mode (i.e. Normal and Hardcore). All Normal characters on an account will share a Paragon level. Similarly, all Hardcore characters on an account will share a Paragon level. Following Paragon 2.0 going live, any Paragon experience you gain on your Normal or Hardcore characters will contribute to your account’s Normal Shared Paragon level or Hardcore Shared Paragon level, respectively.

    – The third change is that we’ve removed the innate bonuses granted by Paragon levels, and players will now earn Paragon Points every time they level up. These points can then be spent to boost up various stats in four different categories: Core Stats, Offensive, Defensive, and Adventure.

    – What category a Paragon Point can be spent in will be determined by what Paragon level you earn. Paragon level 1 gives you a point to spend in “Core Stat,” Paragon level 2 gives you a point to in “Offensive,” Paragon level 3 gives you a point to spend in “Defensive,” and Paragon level 4 gives you a point to spend in “Utility” (or “Adventure”). Each Paragon level past that follows the same pattern.

    – All categories other than Core Stats (DEX, INT, STR, VIT) have a cap on the number of points that can be allocated to them, which also means there is a cap to the total number of points that 3 of the 4 categories can have. At present, this means if you reach Shared Paragon 800, you will have maxed the number of points that can be allocated to the Offensive, Defensive, and Utility categories and all future Paragon levels you earn will grant you a point in the Core Stat category instead.

    – Your account’s Paragon Point pool is not shared between your characters. Instead, characters on your account will each get their own set of Paragon Points to spend independently (e.g. you can spend your Paragon Points differently for each character). To provide an example, if your account’s Normal Shared Paragon level is 100, all Normal characters on your account will each get 100 Paragon Points to distribute as you see fit.

    – Players can respec their Paragon Points. We’ve not yet finalized whether or not respeccing Paragon Points will incur a cost, or what the respec cost might be if we decide to implement one.

    – When Paragon 2.0 goes live, we’ll being adding up all the Paragon experience on each of your characters, and we’ll be using that combined total (the total amount of Paragon experience you have, not the total number of Paragon levels) to determine your Shared Paragon level. Again, this will be broken down by game type.

    – The leveling curve for Paragon 2.0 has not yet been finalized, so we are unable to provide a direct conversion of current Paragon levels > Shared Paragon levels at this time.

    – Under Paragon 2.0, if a character dies or is deleted, the amount of Paragon experience it contributed to your Shared Paragon level will not be lost. This is a benefit of having Paragon experience stored at the account level, rather than at the character level.

    – Whether or not currently-dead characters will contribute to your account’s Hardcore Shared Paragon level once Paragon 2.0 rolls out has not been decided. We know that this is impacting the way some Hardcore enthusiasts are choosing to play right now, so once we’ve made a decision we’ll be sure to let you know. (Note, however, that even if we do make a decision in the near future, things may still change all the way up until Paragon 2.0 goes live based on testing and feedback.)

    – All characters will be able to contribute to Shared Paragon levels equally. There are no bonuses or burdens for Paragon leveling multiple characters of the same class.

    – We don’t have any information about new Paragon portraits at this time.

    – Travis Day offers more development insight into Paragon 2.0 here, here, and here.

    Feedback is absolutely welcome!source]http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10014411465?page=7#140[/source]

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    1. I think the new goal surrounding Paragon is to give players a choice to make, it’s back to sacrificing dps/ehp for mf. Personally, I prefer this. Telling players how to play is much less fun than letting us decide.

      Like your other article stated though, some sort of permanency would be nice. The cost of stat changes/respec should be high. Whether it’s time or gold/items cost, we shouldn’t have free reign to change everything on the fly. This does not mean never though. I believe there is a happy medium here, where players have an option to change their stats/skills, but not so often that we can essentially gear up for the upcoming 10min. Preferably we’d have to accomplish a goal with the stats we have, like defeat 5 bosses and you can once again reset your stats, etc.

      On the console, currently as I level up, there is no reward for using the same skills, and there is no penalty for changing them. I’ve changed them mid fight just to make sure I don’t die. It seems a bit like I have all of my skills available to me all the time because it’s so simple to change them. Just pause, change, defeat hard enemy, change it back.

    2. Lol, now there’ll be a list on which account (team) will reach p800 first o.0

      GO ALKAIZER GO … !!!

    3. Gold Find is, I think, one of many properties that should be purged from the pool of magical affixes. It could either be merged with Magic Find in order to form a more desirable combination or demoted to a Legendary gimmick property for items like Goldskin. With the AH gone and nobody knowing how well Gheed’s gambling machine will do as substitute gold drain (probably as ‘well’ as most other D3 gameplay developements), even further inflation is to be expected.

      • I expect they’ll try to maintain some attractive gold sinks like crafting and Mystic rerolling, but yeah, without the AH it’s unlikely that gold will be particularly important.

        They might not remove gold find from items, but I hope they replace the Ferret Companion as well.

    4. Will characters under clvl60 be able to contribute to the sharagon pool?
      I ask because I only play hardcore. Since one, I’m don’t have a lot of time to play and two, my Internet connection and suck, I don’t anticipate ever having a huge stable of clvl60 characters earning me sharagon points.
      That would mean all the time I spend hacking away towards 60 (70 in the xpac?) would be irrelevant and it would be better for me to play the one clvl60 I have very conservatively in order to boost the survival chances of the generations to come.
      Don’t know if this system is really gonna help me much…

    5. Ok, so what about stats and MF/GF bonuses i have already gained through paragon levels? They will have to remove those stats from every character based on their individual PL.

    6. So i’m investing 100s of hours of time into my characters, so they can get WEAKER?

    7. QUOTE

      So i'm investing 100s of hours of time into my characters, so they can get WEAKER?
      YUP! And remember kids, less options = more!
    8. Yeah, the more I read about this the more skeptical I am about their drop rate fix in combination with loot 2.0.

      Right now, I have about 60% MF from Paragon. This leads to me getting about a legendary per run. If I lose all my MF from Paragon, is the Loot 2.0 drop rate still going to be better? I’m concerned that all the rumblings we’ve heard about a “better” drop rate assume similar MF, which means that they’re not really comparable unless you dump your available Sharagon points into MF as well. Which is lame. If the Loot 2.0 drop rate is only better than the current drop rate assuming you are an effectively higher Sharagon level AND you forgo all other “adventure” boosts, that’s pretty bad.

      • i’m playing console. yes the drop rate is tremendously better. I haven’t focused on mf gear at all. I get 1-2 drops per run. sometimes 3. look for 2.0 to be similar

      • …and you were probably against the AH too. I love the irony.

        • Not quite sure what’s ironic. I don’t really care one way or another about the AH in and of itself; I’ve never used it and I don’t really care if other people do or not.

          I just find it potentially annoying that Blizzard created a paradigm that was pretty much, “Play more and your chances of finding good items increase!” and now might be saying, “Once RoS hits, enjoy worse drop rates than what you played to achieve, because we said so.”

          The AH has little to do with it – the bait-and-switch of promising better drop rates when they may not be better at all is what I’m concerned about.

    9. Here’s an idea – drop the damn Paragon and just let me level my damn character. [/broken record]

    10. QUOTE

      Yeah, the more I read about this the more skeptical I am about their drop rate fix in combination with loot 2.0.
      
      Right now, I have about 60% MF from Paragon. This leads to me getting about a legendary per run. If I lose all my MF from Paragon, is the Loot 2.0 drop rate still going to be better? I'm concerned that all the rumblings we've heard about a "better" drop rate assume similar MF, which means that they're not really comparable unless you dump your available Sharagon points into MF as well. Which is lame. If the Loot 2.0 drop rate is only better than the current drop rate assuming you are an effectively higher Sharagon level AND you forgo all other "adventure" boosts, that's pretty bad.
      Or imagine you're further along. The difference between low mf and high is the difference between a few stars a day and a few a run, it's a factor of 5-10, literally.
      
      Especially since I suspect everyone will be thrown in low MPs only as no recovery = instant kill everything or end up dying a lot. The difference between MP 1 low mf and MP 10 high mf is even greater. You can rack up literally 10 kills a minute or more and still get little.
    11. As someone who likes permanence for my characters, but is resigned to not having it, here’s a suggestion for respec’ing sharagon points:

      To respec one must sacrifice (destroy) a legendary weapon at the altar of respec’ing. Now, this legendary can’t be just any legendary, it must be one that the respec’er has used to gain X number of experience points.

      Makes respec’ing hard, and a goal that people work towards.

    12. Maybe I am reading it wrong. But not a fan of paragon points being ear marked to a certain category. Why can’t we spend the first 50 points maxing out run speed, strength or whatever. Instead 200 points are needed to max out an atribute. Wish they would allow full freedom of where to spend points. After all at lvl 70 people are hardly noobs anymore.

    13. Not a big fan of having ear marked pointsto certain categories. Why can’t we be allowed to max any attribute straight away instead of being forced to choose in specific categories every lvl. Or am I reading it wrongly?

    14. “players will now earn Paragon Points every time they level up.”

      wait,
      what ?

      every time I level up a Paragon level, correct ?

      certainly not every time I “level up”

      my Crusader is char level 60,
      yea ! I just reached level 61, I’ve leveled up !
      give me a Paragon point that I can spend “to boost up various stats in four different categories: Core Stats, Offensive, Defensive, and Adventure.”

    15. Exactly, why even call it “Paragon Levels”?…

      Just have it be normal levels, and stat allocation be in normal character screen like d2…
      Then the Offensive, Defensive, and Adventure… Tie it into spec/build menu. ( since there will be a point a wich we max it out anyways )

      All this separate paragon tabs stuff just adds clutter.

      captcha: mad hatter… haha close enough

    16. I am not as fond of this revamped Paragon system as I initially was. Granted, we don’t know how the new experience levels will work (hell, we don’t even know how much time it will take to get from 60 to 70!), but the Paragon bonuses will likely accumulate very slowly and give a very diluted bonus to characters. In terms of points for Core Stats, it will take (approx.) 240 Paragon 2.0 levels just to equal the prime stat bonus gained from a current P100 character…that’s not including the bonus to Vitality (which would be another 200 Paragon points needed), and this all assumes that 1 PP will give 5 points to your stat. For the other Paragon bonus categories, you won’t be able to max out a single stat until Paragon 200.

      My main gripe with this is that you gain these bonus increases so slowly they are likely to barely be noticeable for a long time. The idea of focusing on dumping points into Movement Speed in order to swap out equipment now doesn’t seem like a very viable idea at all. A Paragon 100 character will be able to increase critical strike chance by a 5%, but you only get that 0.2% at a time (provided the current point > stat exchange rate stays the same). I can’t imagine that Paragon 2.0 leveling will be super fast…and add in the way you’re forced to cycle your Paragon points through the four categories, this doesn’t really add much to character customization. Granted you do have a choice on where to put your points, but it’s almost akin to painting a picture on Photoshop one pixel at a time – it’ll be a long grind to put together a distinct image.

      I am very curious to see just what the experience/leveling curve for Paragon 2.0 will be like, as well as exchange rate for current Paragon experience.

    17. Death to Magic Find, and all of its misery. They want to make it so killing monsters is the best way to get gear? Why make a stat that makes you worse at killing monsters but better at getting gear? SHUT. IT. DOWN. No more MF, w/ or w/o an AH, w/ or w/o binding. It’s a meta-game stat, pure and simple, not a game-play stat.

    18. Wait, so do we still only get paragon XP for playing a max level character, or do non-capped out characters also progress the Paragon XP bar?

    19. I still dont get, will a current paragon X char, keep all of their ” per level” stat bonuses once 2.0 comes out? the vit/dex/mf/gf/ etc?

      barb P 100 gets what extra 300 str at current paragon system will those 300 points disappear?

      • It seems that way right now, which is crazy. I can only assume (or hope) they’re tweaking things so much, those few hundreds points won’t matter so much anymore. And with gearing being so drastically different, you might just make up that number through drops. Looks to be turning into a PR nightmare right now though.

      • It’s right there, in the blue post:

        “- The third change is that we’ve removed the innate bonuses granted by Paragon levels, and players will now earn Paragon Points every time they level up. These points can then be spent to boost up various stats in four different categories: Core Stats, Offensive, Defensive, and Adventure.”

        Also, don’t start bitching quite yet. We still don’t know anything about the curve. Current p100 may equal p200 after the new systems hit, for all we know (which would make sense, in a way; finite ladder seasons -> faster paragon leveling allows characters to reach true endgame within one season).

    20. Eh I am not worried about lost stats because:
      1. They are revamping difficulty.
      2. Level cap raise will result in resetting your power level anyway.
      3. Ladder seasons.

    21. The impression I got on just how much they are raising the drop rates is far beyond what the current MF cap gives you, no? Didn’t they ROS demo players say they got 5-6 legendaries out of a single play session (not sure if it was a 30 minute or a 60 minute one, but then again, they were hardly power farming and I don’t think any of them had MF gear?)

      • Reports I read said 2 or 3 legs, but 1 was a guaranteed for a quest event. Also, D3 demos at shows are balanced for the show to give players fun in 15m sessions. Same logic for the Loot 1.5 on the console. Not necessarily the same as Loot 2.0 on the computer.

    22. Not a big fan of points being earmarked to specific categories. Why not allow the player to decide place their first 50 points in run speed if that is what they desire. Instead, as I read it, we now have to gain 200 paragon levels before we can max out any attribute. Not everyone has para 800+ as a target.

    23. Paragon it’s fault in it’s core. You should not need an artificial bonus to keep playing.
      Paragon 2.0, means the game will be easier the more you play.
      Appart from this, the new system…erm…just make it simple, 1 paragon level should be 1 paragon level for every characters main stat and the other stats, MF/GF included.

    24. I just hope they reset paragon levels for the exp, so everyone starts from Paragon 0.

      If some people start with paragon lvl 541 or similar, I’ll probably skip the exp entirely, as this would mean the players with existing paragon lvls will be the first to get to exp end content and end gear, making them richer, while the ones starting from P0 will remain poor.

    25. Also, so far I’ve not heard one single post that addresses the wastelands known as clvl 1-60.

      The though of leveling one character again to lvl 60 makes me want to commit suicide.

      I think I have barb at P14 and DH at P4. And that’s it (if I remember correctly, I also have wd at lvl 34 and monk at lvl 40ish).

    26. Horrible “system.” I wonder how long it takes people to realize it’s basically the same as paragon 1.0 in it’s core.

      Does anyone really think it makes any measurable impact if I go 10 levels “Offensive” instead of “Utility” and the next 10 levels “Utility” instead of “Offensive”?

    27. Am I the only one who thinks this Sharagon thing makes leveling your character sound even more impersonal than it already is?? Now I don’t have to play a character to level a character??

    28. Am I reading something wrong or are they claiming to give players a CHOICE of where to spend these paragon points? Oh wait, it’s just a choice of one out of one categories of stats, varying between four categories as you progress in paragon levels. Culminating in a choice between a small boost to the one stat that’s good for your character and one of the three other stats that’s not as good once you’ve maxed out everything else everywhere forever.

      And here I almost got interested in trying the game again.

      Oh well, at least taking backsies on this nominal choice MAY cost a little bit of gold, so it’s not like you’re completely devoid of meaningful ways to develop your character.

      • Seriously can we at least try to approach something like the level of creativity and unpredictability we saw in the leveling system of Warcraft 3 heroes?

        Like if you saw a level 6 Archmage you wondered if he had level 3 Water Elemental, level 2 Blizzard and Mass Teleport or level 3 Blizzard, level 1 Water Elemental, level 1 Brilliance and Mass teleport or maybe even level 3 Water Elemental, level 2 Brilliance and Mass Teleport. A Wizard belonging to a Paragon level 6 account is going to have 2 points in Core, 2 points in Offensive, 1 point in Defensive and 1 point in Adventure. Level 66? That’s 17 points in Core, 17 points in Offensive, 16 points in Defensive and 16 points in Adventure. Level 666? 50 points in Core, 50 in Offensive, 50 in Defensive, 50 in Adventure and 466 in Intelligence.

    29. OT…. is the comment system not working in Firefox going to be fixed or am I going to be forced to use a different browser? Having to find the related forum thread in order to see the comments of news items that are on the main page is getting old.

    30. I, Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, The God, state that WC3 had developers that didn’t have trouble comprehending basic percentage calculus. The God is not ironic on this matter, evidences of deep weakness in usage of basic mathematical principles are evident in most segments of D3.

      Divine word was meant as a response to the logical question of mortal Amake.

    31. If they keep the idea of “you get 1 point for a specific category at each first, second, third and fourth paragon level” (meaning you can put 1 point on Offense for example for every FOUR paragon levels you have), Paragon 2.0 is pointless and simply won’t change anything.

      With a paragon lv51 main character and hundreds of playhours behind me I count myself an average player. With is Paragon Level I have now, I can spend a bit more than 10 points each category, and that just doesn’t changes anything. It doesn’t adds anything to build diversity and is just another thing for nolifers to “max out”.

      With 10 points of cooldown reduction, I have 10*0.2 I have TWO, again, 2% cooldown reduction. Why on Earth Blizzard wants to punish me like this? Do I not deserve build diversity and customization before I reach Paragon lv100 or 200, or what? Why can’t I just put 50 points on cooldown reduction to get the maximum 10% that actually opens up new build options, like a Seven Sided Strike build that is actually viable?! Combined with a passive, a diamond in my helm and paragon points I was really looking forward to make something like that, but knowing Blizzard is about to fuck it up again, I just don’t waste anymore heartbeat on the hype Reaper of Souls tries to create.

    32. Maybe they’ve removed gold find execept on affixes until they add more ways to spend it like better npc shops where you can pay for the grave diggers to focus on finding a certain item, or deposite function so if you can’t afford an item in the shop, you can ask them to hold it for say a non-refundable 10% of the cost until you can obtain it (from their cold dead body :D, what, the nephalim doesn’t get a discount for saving Sanctuary?), crafting etc.

    33. Upgrade you killing and xp benefits first then work on your other trendy paragon stats. Btw, do you level 1 characters get to spend their points immediately or do they have to wait to 70?

    34. QUOTE

      Upgrade you killing and xp benefits first then work on your other trendy paragon stats. Btw, do you level 1 characters get to spend their points immediately or do they have to wait to 70?

      And that’s the question we don’t know answer yet 🙂

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