Blizzard Explains the New Difficulty Levels for Reaper of Souls and D3V


One of the bigger changes we’re going to see in the future are new difficulty levels for Reaper of Souls and D3V. The traditional Normal/Nightmare/Hell/Inferno tiers are being removed and replaced by a scaling difficulty in which monsters in every area of the game will scale to your character level, and which you can further customize by a new DiabloWikiMonster Power-like difficulty adjustment system.

Reaper of Souls new difficulty settings.

No longer quite current version of the new difficulty settings.

The CMs leapt into a forum thread with questions about that and spread a lot of useful explanation:

Grimiku: One of our big goals with Reaper of Souls is to give players more control over their game experience, and that applies to difficulty as well. As part of that goal, we’re removing the tiered difficulty system (the one that requires you to work your way through Normal, Nightmare, Hell, and Inferno) that exists right now. We’re replacing it with something that’s more open, and (more importantly) won’t require you to play through the story multiple times if you don’t want to.

So, the Normal > Nightmare > Hell > Inferno progression path is gone. Instead, starting in the pre-expansion patch, you’ll find that monsters will level up as you do, and they’ll gain additional affixes depending on what level range they’re in. You’ll be able to influence monster damage, health, and rewards by selecting one of nine new difficulty settings* as well, similar to the way Monster Power works currently. The result is that you should have a lot more freedom in customizing your level of challenge without worrying about multiple playthroughs of the story to get there.

This is just a rough overview of how the new difficulties will work in Reaper of Souls. We’ll have more details on the new difficulty settings in the future, so be sure to keep an eye out for them! Also, keep in mind that these could all change before we ship.

(*Right now there’s: Normal, Hard, Expert, Master, and Torment I-V. Currently, Master unlocks at 60 and Torment unlocks at 70, but once unlocked they’re available for all characters on your account.)

Click through for lots of follow up clarifications in posts by Lylirra…

I’d say it’s more been replaced with a new set of “monster power” equivalents (the 9 settings Grim mentioned). The tiered difficulty modes are gone, the monster power is just getting an overhaul but the same concept is in play.
Lylirra: More or less. The reward structure for the new difficulty settings is being reevaluated, as well, so it’s not exactly like Monster Power, but the concept is similar.

Lots of the finer tuning details and mechanics are still TBD at the moment, though, so we can’t answer a ton of questions right now (most likely just high-level, big picture kind of stuff). Even so, definitely keep asking about things you want to know and we’ll work to get answers. We’ll either provide them here or, since we’re working on a “First Look” article for the new difficulty system, make sure to address everything* there.

*Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply.

Conflicting stuff isn’t it? Can the Blues care to explain wtf this is? What exactly is the difficulty setting? Easy, Normal, Hard, Torment, Demonic and Apocalypse or Normal, Hard, Expert, Master, and Torment I-V?
Lylirra: We ended up removing Apocalypse right before BlizzCon, but the FAQ had already been approved, localized, and set to publish at that point. We’re working to get it updated as we speak. 🙂

This is why we always say that things are subject to change whenever we post, because they do change — and often quite quickly at this point!

I might be an anomaly, but I like the MP structure. It lets me gauge where I am in terms of gear and play ability. Could you please do a crude comparison for people like so I know about where to start in the pre-expansion patch and then on into RoS? Thanks for helping.
Lylirra: That’s certainly the plan. We’d like to lock down the tuning a bit more before we provide that comparison, though, since things are changing right now on a day-to-day basis. (Like I noted before, we’ll have a “First Look” write-up just on difficulty coming your way fairly soon.)

Why not keep the names “Normal/Nightmare/Hell”? These are iconic to the series, and you’re just getting rid of them for no good reason. Let me try to anticipate the answer: “Players might get confused”.
Lylirra: The main reason is that the tiered Normal > Nightmare > Hell > Inferno system is gone completely; the new system works quite differently and we didn’t want the names, which have a history and thus an expected way of working, to make players think the system functions one way (when it in fact functions in a whole ‘nother way).

Totally fair feedback, though. Happy to pass it on.

Locking out non-RoS players from higher difficulties is not fair. Basically, you’ll take away Monster Power 4-10 without any kind of compensation. I have an MP10 character. Doing low difficulties will be meaningless, and I’m not sure that I want to buy RoS.
Lylirra: For clarity, Torment difficulties currently compare most closely with MP 10 and above.

Did you read his post? He’s saying that without RoS, you can’t play Torment. So there would be no MP 10
Lylirra: Important thing to remember: The new difficulty settings don’t have a direct 1-to-1 comparison with each Monster Power level. So, Torment isn’t technically “MP 10”; MP 10 is just the closest comparison it has right now. At present, its overall difficulty is probably a little more challenging than MP 10 if you take into consideration dynamic difficulty (the fact that monsters level up with you) and all the combat pacing/skill changes we’ve made. On the other hand, Master (which unlocks at 60) feels somewhere between MP 8 and 10 at the moment.

On that note, another thing to remember: all these numbers and comparisons are 100% subject to change, especially as we start opening up the game to testing by more people. This is just where they right now. We want players who don’t purchase the expansion to still feel like they can challenge themselves under this new system, so — as an example — it’s entirely possible we might shift Torment to be somewhere around (comparatively) MP 11 and make Master more challenging as a result. It’s also possible that we won’t need to do this and that the current Master difficulty feels great at level 60. It’s definitely not locked down at the moment; in fact, difficulty tuning is one of the last things we’ll likely finalize, as so many other variables play into it.

Right here. This is what is bringing this question up. So if you don’t purchase RoS, you don’t get level cap raise?
Lylirra: Correct. If you do not purchase Reaper of Souls, your level cap will remain at 60.

Also, just edited Grimiku’s post (with what I imagine was a typo). Master unlocks at 60, not 61.

When they say changing constantly, they mean it. After playing some Adventure Mode and noticing the scaling/flat difficulty and the fact Elites had 2 random affixes though I was only lvl 33 and clearly not in Nightmare, I talked to devs about it (Wyatt and Jason, IIRC) and asked if Norm/NM/Hell/Inferno was out entirely, or just out of Adventure Mode. They said it wasn’t quite finalized yet, but that the current difficulty levels were probably going to remain in Campaign Mode, while Adventure Mode was totally scaling.

Yet from these blue posts, just days later, it sounds like the old tiers of difficulty are entirely gone, even in Campaign Mode.

For another example, here’s how the difficulty was set back in October, as seen via datamining.

  • DifficultySelector_Description_0 – At this difficulty enemies are weaker and have less health. — Recommended for players with either little or no experience with dungeon crawlers (point and click RPG’s) or for players more interested in story than a challenge.

 

  • DifficultySelector_Description_1 – This is the baseline Diablo III experience. — Select this difficulty if you are familiar with dungeon crawlers (point and click RPG’s).
  • DifficultySelector_Description_2 – Enemies are slightly more powerful and have a little more health. — This level is intended for players with experience playing dungeon crawlers and want a little challenge.
  • DifficultySelector_Description_3 – Enemies are more powerful and have more health. There is also an increase to experience and item drops. — This level is intended for players who are looking for a challenge and have a healthy amount of gear to back them up in combat.
  • DifficultySelector_Description_4 – Enemies are more powerful and have more health. There is also an increase to experience and item drops. — This level is only recommended to players who have aquired a good deal of gear and are seeking a much greater challenge.
  • DifficultySelector_Description_5 – Enemies are much more powerful and are very difficult to kill. There is also a significant increase to experience and item drops.. — Only adventurers with the highest level of skill and gear should consider this difficulty.

That was the rough version of the “Easy, Normal, Hard, Torment, Demonic, and Apocalypse” version, that’s since been upgraded and given more gradients into the 1-9 settings of “Normal, Hard, Expert, Master, and Torment I-V.”

And yes, you need to memorize all of this. It will be on the final exam.

Comments

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  1. And nothing of value was lost.

  2. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
    Why they are doing this. I know this is easy foe developers but this always suck. This killed Sacred 2

    • And how this suck? Borderlands 2 runs the same thing in later difficulties.

      As for Diablo, it’s really a better system than it was before, when you just were bored to go through normal/norghtamer/hell, because it was just too simple, no fun at all. At least now there will be some challenge while lvling up. I really don’t see any downside in this one. Still, when you will be max level you will play exactly the same gameplay as you did in D3 while you are in inferno with your lvl 60 character.

      • I’m assuming Polybius means the auto-scaling monsters. I hate the concepts and have not ever heard it work out well in RPGs that have tried it.

        • Yes. I mean exactly that it killed, so many games before. I’s is very easy for developer to balance taking lot of cost, but taking choice from player. You can’t be below curve, you can’t be above curve, this makes levelling obsolete.
          I was very exited with RoS expansion, but I’m afraid that will ruin Diablo III experience at all.
          In my opinion this is biggest design mistake that game designers could done.

          • When have you ever played below the curve in any Diablo game or any ARPG for that matter? 99% of times you are stretching your limits to get the best rewards. The only thing that changes is that now the game will try to keep the low end of the curve close to your character’s level, not force you to replay the whole story 4 times, while still allowing you to challenge yourself with increased difficulty. What’s not to like?

            A system like this never ruined an ARPG, because no ARPG ever had one as far as I know. It does hurt games like Fallout and Skyrim, because there it kinda kills part of the immersion.

          • “Playing below the curve” means you’re deliberately attempting to beat content for which you aren’t actually strong enough.

            Auto-scaling of monsters means you can’t do this. It is one of the more fun and nerve-wracking things you can do in a lot of RPGs.

          • Below the curve = MP0
            Above the curve = MP3

          • @Lanthanide

            You can still make the game a lot harder for you by playing on Torment.

      • Actually, Borderlands 2 only kinda does this, it still has forced replays of the storyline.

  3. Wait, so how do I level up to max level? I do one playthrough then spam adventure mode for 50 more levels?

  4. This is going to kill the game experience. Diablo II difficulty was the best ever.

    • Hold down right click WOOOOOOOO

    • How so ? How was it the best forcing you to play the linear story and maps finishing the game 2 times before hell ?…This gives players alot more freedom…In the end it wont matter, we’ll be farming AM at torment.

    • Ha. I’m playing as Assassin in NM at the moment and all I do is put down lightning traps and stand back. It’s boring as hell. Even that aside, you can generally just move around passively and let your hireling kill everything. However, when I fought Diablo in Normal, my traps were so weak against him, yet he was so completely useless against me since just just stands there, that it took about half an hour of me just planting traps.

      It’s the same with my Amazon, I just shoot regular arrows at everything. If there are a lot of enemies, I do the multi-shot skill. That’s all I ever do regardless of enemy composition and regardless of difficulty setting. All you’re doing in D2 for the most part with skill points is keeping your skill damage in sync with enemy HP. The one and only thing that additional difficulty levels bring into it is the need to do damage in more than one element (or just let a summon/hireling kill them).

  5. If they are removing MP levels, how are key drops & Uber organ drop chances going to work?

    • They aren’t removing MP, just renaming it. They are only removing the forced Normal/Nightmare/Hell/Inferno progression. I wish ARPG would the same from now on.

    • Hopefully the Keywardens are going to be overhauled because right now they suck.

      About 2 months ago I came back to D3 for the first time in about a year – stopped before they introduced the Infernal Machine. So I had quite a bit of fun with all the changes they’d made since then, and decided I’d do the infernal machine event. After killing the Act 3 warden 8 times in a row on MP7 and not getting a key I gave up (had at least 3+ of all of the other keys).

    • “If they are removing MP levels, how are key drops & Uber organ drop chances going to work?”

      They are reworking the whole system. As they have to, since w/o NV stacks and in open world AM players could hit all 3 (or 4) keywardens in 10 minutes, which would make farming up keys too easy, etc.

  6. Lvling was already obsolete in Diablo 3. Not sure anything was lost.

    Or rather, something was lost, but the loss happened 1

  7. So a level 1 character can just turn on Adventure mode and go kill a level 1 diablo? This is retarded.

    • You are assuming that an Act or area is unlocked after you finish it, even for new characters. As far as I know this is still undecided.

    • Are you kidding? That’ll be awesome! I wonder if the shadow clones will only have the level one skill, too.

    • Its adventure mode, so what do you care ? There is no story/lore on A.M., its all about farming exp/loot/quests on it…

    • You mean like how a level 1 character can get waypointed to Diablo in D2 and just stand there as his friend one-shots Diablo? The rewards from Diablo at level 1 will be shit anyway, there’ll be no real point to doing it – any more than there’s a point now to killing Normal Diablo with your level 60 character.

      Also, at level 1 you’ll have no skills or defensive moves, so it’ll actually be harder than being level 60 and doing him on Inferno. It’s like in a lot of RPGs, some earlier things are actually harder than endgame stuff since you only have basic attacks. You can either do enough damage before you die with simple attacks or you can’t, there’s no amazing equipment or Get Out Of Jail Free cards to back you up.

    • “So a level 1 character can just turn on Adventure mode and go kill a level 1 diablo? This is retarded.”

      Read the post, since Lylirra mentions that. The system is either make you wait until clearing all 5 acts to start AM, or else it goes act by act so once you clear an act you’d be eligible to do that one on AM.

      Theoretically a player could get rushed through quickly, but I doubt the monster scaling drops below the minimum level for that act, so even if you were rushed and at like level 10 you could do all of Act 4, you’d get splatted since the monsters would still be level 25 or whatever.

      • Hmm, I should have read Lylirra’s post more carefully. Either of those solutions are fine by me, although I’m hoping for the latter. I’d like star leveling through AM as fast as possible 🙂

        Downscaling the later Acts to low levels would be a little weird indeed.

  8. Why is Thunderfury items in Diablo3?? Its sword from WoW?? HAHAHAHA IDIOTS!

  9. Finally! Someone realized that forced replays of the storyline is not the way to go for leveling in ARPGs.

  10. Having monster level scaling with your character level removes the sense of progression – you just see numbers getting bigger… Wow, just when I thought that character development in this game can’t get annihilated any more.
    Perhaps they should remove leveling system completely as it’s pointless right now?
    Here comes our beloved Item Tycoon.

    • How will this be any different to naturally progressing through the Acts in the 4 difficulties? Monsters stay on your level if you do this even now.

      • Yes, but you could choose to do more difficult areas, or choose to do easier areas. Now they’ve removed that choice.

        • Turn up the difficulty setting, then.

        • What Ivan E said. Also, at the endgame you can still make the game easier for you if you stay on Normal difficulty. After a while your items will become better, so Normal will be a breeze, just like MP0 is right now.

          • Neither is mp0 a breeze for some (most?) people, nor have we data whether Normal difficulty equals today’s mp0. They claim that their goal is to “give players more control over their game experience”, yet they are removing the choices, which is opposite to that statement.

          • @Deathrider

            What they’re removing is the forced replays of the storyline. When have people ever played on Hell instead on Inferno when it was available, other than when they were running bots?

          • @HardRock
            They are removing the forced storyline replays, which is fine, granted they have a good alternative for leveling. Their alternative is level scaling, which is not good for me and probably many others who enjoy playing with other builds than the most efficient ones. Every class has a small number of efficient builds. There are many funny skills/runes that are funny to play with but not efficient enough to manage in Inferno. Do you believe that they are able to balance these skills/runes? Also there is a matter of character power feeling I mentioned below.

          • Honestly, I feel that if Normal equals MP0 or something close, then pretty much anything will be viable there, just like right now, so you may be able play less efficient builds there. At the very least you’ll need to farm some gear, which will be easier if the player feedback from BlizzCon is any indication of how Loot 2.0 will play out. We’ll see how things will turn out.

            Finding and equivalent to playing on the current Hell difficulty with your Inferno geared character won’t be possible from the looks of things, that much is true. It’s just that I never though that this would bug anyone. 🙂

  11. With scaling system your power is defined by items only, which may go bad if luck is not on your side. And there is no point of return.
    Some people like to go back to bring apocalypse to weaker monsters at lower levels just to feel their character power.
    I like the feeling that my effort put into killing worthy foes is rewarded with power. I think it’s the point of experience/level system.
    That’s one difference.
    While I don’t think that forcing a player to progress through story more than once is a good option, I wish they came with better solution than level scaling.

  12. I understand it and actually love it. Likely going to make the 1-60 or 1-70 leveling grind a bit easier and the items found while leveling a bit better. Sounds good to me.

  13. I’m pretty sure that a well geared character playing on normal/hard/expert will feel like inferno geared character playing on hell or lower difficulty.

  14. Get power leveled to level 70 will be super easy with a good leveling set!!!!!

    Hardcore gets a win.

    • Is there still a need to power level to max level? That’s the main goal in D3V, but a lot of that motivation is hoping to find valuable gear to sell in the AH and you can’t do that until Inferno. But in RoS there’s no AH and the best gear is all BoA, you find legs at low levels without needing huge MF, and and you can do AM with scaling difficulty well before max level.

      Might people just enjoy the playing experience in RoS and not feel like it’s all a waste of time before max level?

      • I think the same people who would want to enjoy the 1-max with this system are the same people who still do it in D3C.

        The only reason I kinda played the game in D2 other than hell was to hit level 24, same with D3C… hit level 15 and get to 60 in 3 or whatever hours after. If adventure mode is unlocked at level 1, you may be able to just bring in a max level and go to the zones you want to clear for density and then bounties assuming they give worth while experience for exploring. But then again, the system may bring the monsters to the level of the highest person in the game which would effectively kill power leveling.

        Personally, I could give two hoots about low level gear, because all that really matters to me is doing the hardest possible content the game offers, which would be max level at max difficulty. I am excited to hear it may be above current MP10, and hopefully they remove enrage timers off Butcher/Belail.

      • “That’s the main goal in D3V, but a lot of that motivation is hoping to find valuable gear to sell in the AH and you can’t do that until Inferno.”

        Uhhh, no…..a lot of that motivation is hoping to find valuable gear to USE. Plus having all the runes unlocked cuz some of the best ones are towards the end.

  15. The monster power was good for its simplicity, but now the new system just feels arbitrary, especially when torment as a 1 through 5 scale mixing named difficulties with numbered. I don’t mind changing monster power, but they should either pick names or numbers, not both.

    Also if they want to decrease the number of levels to reduce the player spread online they shouldn’t have 8 or 9 difficulties still.

    And I don’t see the reason to have difficulties that don’t provide added reward, it deviates from the “increased difficulty means better rewards” philosophy. You either remove the bonuses or scale them appropriately across all difficulties.

    Personally they should go normal (MP 0), nightmare (MP 1-2), hell (3-4), inferno (5-6), torment (7-8), Demonic (9-10), and Apocalypse would start at 10 and each time you clear an elite pack the difficulty and reward increase.

  16. What are people so afraid of ? as far as I remember in the current state of the game , Normal/Nightmare/Hell are so easy even with underleveled character(Softcore) in HC only Hell can be somekind of a challenge , I think monsters scaling can make it more exciting on your way to 60-70 , I am also sure easy(mp0) is gonna be so easy that even with scaling monsters won’t pose any threat unless you have a horrible build with crappy items because you didn’t choose your items wisely.

    After playing the Consoles even when I don’t find any legendaries with just few rares from “smart drops” you should be fine to wreck havoc on your way to inferno/torment , most people will be scaling the difficulty up abit for some challenge not down to make it easier.

  17. dont like this 🙁

  18. This has ruined the game for me. I always enjoyed leveling up on the zombies outside of Tristram from 1-60, and Blizzard has effectively ruined this option for me.

    At it’s heart, Diablo has always been an open world go anywhere hiking simulator/dungeon explorer, and now at level 60 all the bandits will be wearing glass armor! Todd Howard has ruined Diablo Scrolls yet again!

  19. Interesting. The biggest beneficiary of this change is going to be hardcore mode. It will actually be a “roguelike lite.” If they throw in a “randomize your skill unlock progression” option and the leveling speed in adventure mode is high, I would totally play the **** out of HC mode.

  20. You know what….leveling in D3 was already extremely dull and unrewarding….if they want to go with this scaling monsters idea in a wide open world….then what’s the point of even having levels? At that point I’d just say screw it, leveling be gone, everyone starts at max level, enjoy your less-satisfying-than-real-leveling Paragon points. Seriously, what’s the point?

    • You joke, but even during Beta and before, I was asking why do they insist on leveling. I think it’s when they screwed up the runes as items thing, complaining that “there aren’t enough rewards for leveling from 30-60.” So what? Get rid of the levels! If I were to start from scratch, I’d get rid of levels, and hand out skills, passives, and runes as quest rewards, or even crafted items, to smooth out the RNG madness. I think the only good thing the leveling still does is helps set the monsters’ health and damage, but that can be an invisible function, similar to monster power scaling today.

      • I wasn’t joking, I really do think it’s pointless now. I think the sense of progression RPG-style games can give is really fun and valuable but D3 failed at that pretty hard and auto-scaling difficulty makes it even less satisfying. So if you’re not getting that fun sense of progression then what are we getting but a time sink before the “real” games starts?

        • I agree that progression can be fun, I think it should be objective based, not a pure XP grind. More like the old Mega Man games, where you got weapons and skills when you beat bosses or found secrets (in the later games). So in Campaign Mode, you’d get skills and runes when you did story quests. In Adventure Mode, you’d get skills and runes when you did bounties or killed Rift Guardians. And this is true in a lot of games, where you do all sorts of repetitive junk that’s contrary to what most people end up doing for fun. Like grinding Metal Slimes instead of going after boss monsters.

      • Also, I saw that the next WoW xpac is gonna have some way to zoom new chars to max level so there’s already precedent.

        • You can do it once – take a new or an existing char to 90 (which won’t be max level) – it’s meant to help people who’s come back to the game to stay on par with everyone else on their main char. – Which is a good thing

      • They could have kept it simple and meaningful like Diablo 2, award skill points and attribute points. And have a visually pleasing skill tree as well.

        I think these people at Blizzard have lost themselves in a game they should never have made.

    • Sound good to me.

      Just make runes as items, and then instead of unlocking skills over time you unlock them as drops. You can even have skill-rune items (unlock use of a skill) and then colored-rune items that allow you to unlock/upgrade individual runes for a skill (but your choice of which skill you will unlock the colored rune for).

    • There is a big advantage for scaling monsters. With exp and hellring ring,cain set combi you are outleveling the content so hard that the exp eventually “lags” behind ur level. The scaling would give you the most optimal exp , each time you level and the monster go higher in level as well!

    • I, Clavdivs, The God, confirm validity of this way of thinking. Divine being would like to see far more open world than just removal of quest requirements and free-travel between waypoints (without fear of losing fully needless NV). Since Nephelem Rifts seem not to make debut it RoS either – though The God is beyond truth and lie, and does not certainly consider anything ‘blues’ say [The God pauses a while to ponder whether ‘blues’ should be blue. Deciding positively, divine being continues] – RoS will be much less ‘open’ than announced – a reason less for rushing with praise or pre-ordering.

      • Nephalem Trials are out, not Nephalem Rifts.

        And, just because you mentioned it in passing, they’re looking at removing NV. With adventure mode and bounties sending you all over the world, they don’t feel the need to force you to go and kill five elite packs before starting to really play.

    • I agree, but what did a level really get you in D2? You made it to level 85 or whatever pretty easily to allocate your points, but most of us rushed to that level anyway. Just because we had a stat point to throw on the tree doesn’t mean it’s better.

  21. Probably a good thing, it was nothing like Diablo when it first came out an just having those old parts of the game there just to please fans just didn’t seem right. Seems like we’re finally getting a glimps of how the real D3 should be played.

  22. If this gets dumbed-down like the console version then we are in for a rude awakening.

  23. The positive thing about difficulties in D2 was definite goals to anticipate and work towards. Not just nightmare and hell versions of bosses but also certain regular monsters. The inferno casting demons in Act IV were something I always feared and probably wouldn’t have fought more than once given the choice, because they always killed me a bunch, but it was a good sort of fear. When I got past them in nightmare and hell, I felt pretty good. Another nice thing was it gave benchmarks to compare across characters.

    This aspect was lessened in D3 because, let’s face it, playthroughs 1-3 were totally inconsequential without MP. Free-specs were one factor. You never ran into those difficulty spikes where your build was ill-suited for a particular boss or area, because if you did you just changed your build. But the main reason was the AH, especially after the game had been out for a little while. 1-59 gear was cheap, and you could double or triple or DPS pretty easily without making much of a dent in the gold you got just from playing through the campaign. Luckily that won’t be a problem anymore.

    Another difference with D3: the story elements were intrusive and obnoxious as hell. It seems like Blizzard is looking at the feedback about this and other problems, which is good, but they’re coming to the wrong conclusion. Don’t completely de-structure the game so that I never have to do anything I don’t want to, make the damn story less obnoxious. Have the structure of the whole game be more open, like in Torchlight 2, with big branching environments and a story you only pay attention to if you want. Blizzard wants to tell some fleshed out linear story with lots of scripted sequences for some reason, but this is not the right style of game to do that.

    Auto-leveling monsters is a terrible idea. It removes so much of that feeling of progression that this style of games relies on. Treating player freedom like a good thing in itself is also questionable. If that were the case, why are we removing the AH? Isn’t that just another choice? Obviously, choice can be a bad thing. This is the first time I’ve questioned if Blizzard is on the right track since the announcement to remove the AH. The choice to do nothing but farm the most efficient area without any challenge to anticipate (like those Inferno Demons) or guiding structure is not a good choice to have.

    • I think they tried to make the story more obtrusive because “players never pay attention to the story, they just skip it”. Making it up in our face every 2 minutes seemed to be their “solution” to that “problem”.

    • >The inferno casting demons in Act IV were something I always feared

      Because the fire resist on your gear was too low.

    • “The choice to do nothing but farm the most efficient area without any challenge to anticipate (like those Inferno Demons) or guiding structure is not a good choice to have.”

      Don’t MP levels (or the new difficulty levels) solve the anticipated challenge part though? You can increase the challenge to ridiculous levels even now if you want to. Also, bounties seem like fairly good guiding structures if you ask me.

  24. There is just more and more evidence that the devs are just completely lost unable to figure out what to do. This whole thing is just a mess. The repeated difficulties served a valuable purpose in difficulty progression that simply wasn’t utilized properly in vanilla D3.

    The proper answer wasn’t to gut the difficulties, it should have been to distinguish them and enhance the experience. D2 did this with subtle balancing of monster skills/damage (remember claw vipers? How about the surprise they brought on higher difficulties?) as well as elemental resistances and immunites.

    D3 difficulty tiers really needed something to make the higher difficulties a true challenge and not just longer road of chasing bigger numbers. New mini-bosses/bosses, added monster abilities, more dangerous traps, and other surprises would keep the players on their toes and offer them new and unique experiences that they’d have to prepare themselves for. Simply tuning the numbers up or down is as artificial as it gets and reeks of developer laziness.

    The game was lacking meaningful progression as it was and now this leaves me wondering what they could do to bring it back. Or maybe yovargas is right and they’ll just remove levels and the game will just be one big sandbox game abandoning the RPG experience entirely.

    • I think you’re looking at D2 with rose-tinted glasses. In D2, higher difficulties simply had monsters with more HP, more damage, etc. Probably the only real thing that changed with higher difficulties were the resistances (essentially more HP) and immunities. And random bosses got more affixes on them, which is the same thing D3 does.

  25. One thing I always hated about Diablo and PoE are monster levels tied to zones. As I am making my way through the game, suddenly I am 4 levels above the monsters I’m fighting and I’m only getting 75% of the XP they provide.

    Or, I find a zone that is fun to kill mobs in, but I can only play there for so long before it becomes inefficient. I like that I can technically go from 1-70 without ever setting foot in Leorics Tomb or that if I want to always to farm the Butcher for awhile whilst leveling, that’s perfectly acceptable.

    What I am really curios about is monster density. Will that zone over the bridge on the opposite side of Tristam (name escapes me right now) be as packed as it is in Inferno mode with MP turned on? If so, I know where I will be spending my leveling time!

  26. If the number of monsters’ affixes are based on monster level which are based on character level, then why will they tie higher diffiulties (monster power levels with names) to character level? It is like we couldn’t enable MP10 on current normal difficulty.

    If i could start a lvl1 character and set the difficulty to TormentV then maybe i would got higher rewards and more xp/gold at the cost of slower and harder progress, nonetheless i don’t get it why they’re excluding that option.

    Except if they’re adding something else to higher difficulty levels (besides higher damage and hp) like resistance or immunities, then i have no problem with it.

  27. next, theyll make items autolevel too, fucking douchebags

    another dissapointment…oh so thats why there were no news on blizzcon so we could hear it now.

    No legendary trading
    MF nerfed to the grand
    Monster level now scales a thing, even after hard advocating of hardrock and ivan , that has been abandoned by many game studious because it doesnt give you any progression, everything starts to feel like a chore, there is no respite, there is no oh shit I am stronger than these moment. Also makes you completely ignore progress, cause hey, why not just exp 1-70 in atacomvs first act and then ask your friend to give you some other waypoints you want?

    They are such pitiful team, the lies and deceit coming from them. Have some balls grow up on you, will ya Josh? Say it on blizzcon so you can see the crowd cheer.

    • Sure there’s progression, but now it only comes from gear. At the endgame most likely you’ll still be able to faceroll things if you play on Normal. If you want to faceroll during leveling, again, stick to Normal, equip a Hellfire Ring and a max level Ruby in your weapon and wreck things.

    • They have already made legendaries auto-level.

    • There are still difficulty levels within the game. As you gain more gear, you move up the difficulty levels, until you’re in Apocalypse V with 2m DPS and 10b EHP, face-rolling everything.

      I’d say that’s pretty clear form of progression.

      Levels never meant jack in D3, nor did they mean a thing in D2. Getting into Hell the first time was always a pain because you needed to get more resists on your GEAR. Or your weapon was garbage you found mid-Nightmare, so you killed mobs for hours in Act V NM to get a better weapon.

      • Actually it could be argued that unlocking new skills and runes with D3 is a bit more meaningful than the +5% more damage you got in D2 with every skill point dumped into a skill, but that’s another dead-horse discussion.

  28. I don’t see any issues with monster scaling in D3 – I absolutely loathe it in the Elder Scrolls games.

    When you gain a level, you gain more power, so you’re never going to fall behind, whereas in a game like Oblivion it can hurt you badly if you’re foolish enough to gain levels without boosting the correct skills…

    Look at it this way: You happen to like a certain area and with the changes, you can stick to that area for as long as you like, without it becoming trivial and give no exp. Is that a bad thing?

  29. Whilst I can understand the passion (as a fan it’s something I share) I find it interesting that so many people are prepared to bag this before it’s even finalized and beta tested.

    Right now we don’t even know how the details of how their auto leveling system is going to work. Personally I’m going to just step back, take a breath, see what they propose (i.e some details not just big picture mode as we have here) and then provide some constructive feedback to the best of my ability.

  30. So much for the developers coming to their senses …
    I was kinda hopeful they’d just bake Monster Power into the difficulty settings and settle with a granularity of 5 difficulty modes. Why even make an elaborate 5-tier menu interface when there are 9 difficulties, half of them named, and the rest numbered?

    Before BlizzCon, I was just gutted by how they’d save up important main-game system fixes and overhauls for hyping and selling the expansion. Now, with decisions like these, new/updated systems looking rather halfhearted in execution, and other features already getting put on hold indefinitely (Nephalem Trials), I’m almost convinced about the direction this is taking.

  31. At this point of the game and this guys STILL dont have a clue….

  32. If monsters are always at your level, how will we go about farming low-level items, like Leoric’s Signet etc? Plus there is a certain appeal to sometimes going god-mode and one-shotting Diablo and the enemies becoming like ants to you. I hope that’s not lost with the new difficulty curve.

    In my exp. it’s most efficient to farm at a level where you can one-shot most enemies and kill boss packs in under 5-10 seconds. For my main right now, with my best MF/GF gear, MP0 Inferno is just barely that, and MP3 Inferno is retarded hard even with my strongest non-farming gear. If Torment1 is equivalent to MP10, and Normal is like MP0 Inferno, will people without crazy gear be able to farm Normal efficiently? And how hard will it be to farm the gear necessary to move up in difficulty level?

    • Legendaries will drop at an item level appropriate for your character level. My understanding is that they’ll still have minimum level requirements to drop though, so high-end Legendaries won’t drop for your level 1 character, but a low-level may for your level 70, only it will be scaled up.

      • So how would you farm for your low-lvl characters? You mean a low-lvl legendary will drop for a lvl70 player, but the item will be lvl70? I’m hoping to be able to use my high-lvl characters to farm some nice low-lvl items to make the grind to 70 easier for that new Crusader. Or should I just assume I won’t have that ability and focus on farming signets and hellfire rings now?

        • Haven’t you heard? Trading is the worst thing in the entire Diablo universe. You’re supposed to farm everything yourself, even to at the character level, rather than swap things. Otherwise Travis will come and staple your clothes to your body.

        • Good question, one that I don’t know the answer to. It’s possible you won’t be able to do this in the expansion. I think the best way to twink may turn out to be to look for good socketed Rares for every 10 or so character level and then put high-end gems in them. Hellfire Rings will probably remain good boosts as well.

  33. Tbh, the loss of the three iconic Diablo difficulties is a bit a disappointment.

    About the new system. It looks OK. Surely it should be seen “in action” in order to see if it really is good. Play the game three times before actually start the fun part is a bit too much. But at the same time I don’t like the “monsters will level up as you do” thing, ala Skyrim. Doesn’t fit a Diablo game imo.

    What the could do is (I am trying to find a solution with the current game, what I wished years ago is lost forever, unfortunately):
    1. Remove the level cap. It’s useless with the actual game structure. You start a Level 1, you earn paragon points from the very beginning and you can level up to an indefinite number (maybe 999, or 1k is a nicer number).
    2. Three difficulty levels, Normal, Nightmare and Hell. The classic.
    3. The second and third difficulty not only brings new monster affixes (2 in NM and 4 in Hell) but also turn how the monsters work, or in other words, their standard abilities should be enhanched (increase movement and attack speed, can critical hit you, they use their special abilities more often, etc.). Because now, except few cases, almost every monster feels the same since you only fight against the affixes, not the type of monster (who should become more challenging because of the affixes).
    4. Since evey zone has three or more types of monsters, in NM one of them should be replaced with a random type from any act in the game. In Hell, two monstes should be replaced with the same philosophy.
    5. Any of this three difficulties should be made in a way that you should have at least a mid gear and good skills to beat it. This means challenging.
    6. After beating Hell, you unlock the Inferno difficulty modifiers, something like Torment I-V. Here the games becomes reaaly hard, not only because of the monster HP and damage, but mostly because of the other modifiers which will be drastically increased. Inferno 5 should be playable only with the almost top end gear and with a lot of gaming skills (literally, play the game well).
    The reward for this difficulties should be: increased MF (+100% in Inferno 1, +200% in Inferno 2, etc.), increased experience (at least +50% for each Inferno level), additional drop (1 item for Inferno 1 and 2, 2 items for Inferno 3-4 and 3 items for Inferno 5), etc.
    In this way it would be easy to get rid of the Nephalem Valor system.

    I do not mention the improvements that items, skill, etc. sjould recieve. this is just what I think about the difficulty levels. My two cents.

    • Since there is no edit here, I have made some changes in the thread. There my post is written better and I have made some core changes to the explanation.

  34. So many different opinions and perspectives. I think they’re heading in the right direction with the game. I’ve just got a few concerns. Number #1 being the difficulty selection. I really hope they make torment VI ridiculously difficult. They need to make the best potentially geared, skilled* and spell set up players have a hard time on this difficulty. Also, gear progression. I admit we haven’t seen best potential gear on RoS beta yet, but it does seem that players are gearing up too quickly and are reaching a higher than expected standard with such little time invested. I’m hoping that the gear progression comes steadily, and that its slightly possible to find a substantial upgrade even when a few months into the game. And is it just me or do demon hunters seem bland compared to the other heroes? The style, look and vibe of the demon hunter makes it my favourite hero. However, the playstyle and possible skill set ups seems very limited. I hope they fix the numbers with the abilities as I’m pretty sick of spamming that lightning orb shit for max AoE potential.

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