Barbarian players still shocked by the recent nerf to Shard of Hate are speaking out about Whirlwind’s apparent lameness. “Alas,” says Blizzard, “working as intended.”
cmon blizz, buff ww! ww is barb signature move, and every 1 love to ww!
Nevalistis: Some of these tests can be misleading in that they often create an environment attempting to compare each skill point-for-point when not all skills are designed to perform equally under the same circumstances.
Using Whirlwind as your exclusive damage dealer on Ghom is going to have lower performance when compared to something like Ancient Spear because it’s designed to hit multiple targets. Whirlwind is the type of skill that performs exponentially better the more targets it’s able to hit, and less well on single targets. Ancient Spear, on the other hand, is tuned the other way around (better at single target, less than ideal at multi-target) as it’s (generally) a single-target skill.
Damage is not the only factor of a skill that’s weighed when we’re considering balance. The proc coefficient, the average number of targets a skill usually hits, the amount of player skill involved to capitalize on an ability’s powers, and whether or not that skill provides any additional utility bonuses are some of the other parts of that equation. While some of that is quantifiable data, other details are a bit harder to measure in raw numbers. That’s part of what makes the act of balancing so tricky.
We want to make sure each skill is serving its design intent and feels good when utilized in those environments. Single-target skills will generally excel the most when you’re fighting bosses, when AoE skills will feel more powerful among packs of beasties. We think that Whirlwind, when used in the latter situation, feels pretty good right now, and even more so when geared up with items that synergize well with its strengths.
We’re keeping an ever-vigilant eye on player feedback and our own data, and as these concerns pop up, those of us on the Community team will continue to do our best to let you know what the thoughts are behind these design decisions. 🙂
WW is not imo a huge issue but the fact that lightning/cold/non-fire builds all perform poorly and aren’t really good compared with fire.
Nevalistis: This is actually a topic I’ve been meaning to post on for a while, but hadn’t found a good opportunity yet. Now’s as good a time as any, I suppose!
When we did a pass on elemental damage types across skills during the Closed Beta for Reaper of Souls, the Barbarian class was one that received the most revision. While we arrived at a place much closer to where we were aiming, we think there’s room for some additional adjustments. I don’t have details on exact changes to share at this time, but it’s likely you’ll see some skills, and not just for the Barbarian, shift around their elemental type in a future patch.
It’s a valid point; that WW is meant as an AoE attack to hit lots of targets for moderate damage and will therefore not do so well against single targets. Except that the Wizard has something like seventeen skills that do more damage than Whirlwind, AND hit every single enemy on the screen at once. Sorry Barbs, but now you know how every other class felt about you guys being JW’s chosen race from like, June 2012 – February 2014.
In other news, there’s an issue with the tooltip on a two-handed sword of use to Crusaders, though some Barb fan spins the Whirlwind issue into the middle of that debate as well.
Yesterday when My condemn hits monster A,B,C,D,E then each of monster A,B,C,D,E will “cast” condemn. I just log in now and find out that the additional condemn are limited to 2 explosion.
What did you do?
Lylirra: I’ve passed along your reports to our QA team (to see if what you’re describing is a possible bug) and our developers (to see if what you’re describing was an intended change that just didn’t get passed along to our team), as well to verify what exactly is functioning differently with the Blade of Prophecy (if anything at all, since it’s possible the item hasn’t actually changed in the last few days). I’m not sure I’ll be able to find out this information today, since most folks don’t begin their shifts until Monday, but hopefully we’ll be able to provide some clarity soon. Apologies for any confusion, and thanks for your reports. Hope you all enjoy the rest of your Sunday!
please Lylirra , please for the love of everything thats holy pass along a message stating how much of a horrific state whirlwind for barbarians is , lightning just cannot do any damage
Lylirra: Happy to pass on the feedback, but pretty sure Nevalistis already beat me to it. I know she documented quite a bit of feedback from the discussion she was keeping an eye on here.
Note that the tuning pass she’s referencing refers to the reevaluation we always do after a game is launched (or a big patch has been released). We do a tuning pass before we ship and then after; this post-ship pass is to account for the wider net of data we get once the game has been played by a larger audience of players.
Alright, folks. Here’s the follow up:
Blade of Prophecy currently only procs two extra explosions of Condemn, regardless of how many targets are Condemned while the weapon is equipped.
This is intended functionality of the weapon, and has been since it was implemented. (This is really what I wanted to confirm.)
No changes have been made to Blade of Prophecy since RoS shipped, and no known bugs are currently active with the weapon.
Just as an FYI, I’ve already passed along the feedback regarding BoP’s tooltip and the relevant secondary affix being somewhat misleading/confusing. 🙂
Looks at tooltip, looks at this statement.
*Big explosions in brain at the cognitive dissonance.*
Lylirra: When I passed along the feedback from earlier posts in this thread to the dev team, they’d agreed with the posts that the description is confusing and not really representative of the behavior of the proc, so it’s something they’d like to fix and just make much more clear to players. Since it’s a text change (and therefore hitting client side data), it’s not something we can hotfix, but we are looking to tackle with a future patch.
I guess the Crusader is condemned to suffer?