Big Group "Meta" Changes Coming to Diablo 3 - Diabloii.Net

Big Group “Meta” Changes Coming to Diablo 3


Senior Developer Wyatt Cheng has offered up an article-sized forum post in which he discusses the philosophy behind some major changes coming to Diablo 3. The changes will mostly affect the party dynamics, making the current strategy of “1 DPS + 3 support” much less powerful. The developers want players to work more for their record clears; to have to change tactics depending on enemy type, to not just stand in one killing zone and keep dragging new enemies into it, etc.

The new paradigm is going to be 2 DPS + 2 support, with big nerfs to some of the most popular group offensive buffs and many other changes. These tweaks will be tested on the current PTR and should be implemented into the next patch/season, so things are changing, and they’re changing right now.

Here’s an excerpt from Wyatt’s lengthy info dump:


PROBLEM #1: Bringing damage support buffers is more effective than bringing a second damage dealer. Why bring damage dealer #2 when you can bring a damage support who increases the damage of damage dealer #1 by 300%?
CHANGE #1: We are going to be reviewing the party-based damage buffs provided by all the classes. The degree to which some classes can buff party damage is a huge contributor to the 1 DPS – 3 Support meta.

PROBLEM #2: It is too easy to group monsters together. This is bad because:

  • It disproportionately increases the damage of the group compared to adding a 2nd damage dealer. If you have twice as many monsters grouped, not only are you dealing twice as much total damage – you’re also scaling Area Damage upwards.
  • On top of this, many of the grouping mechanics encourages stationary combat. If you’re chain-pulling monsters to a point, you’re fighting in one location for extended periods of time.
  • In addition to being stationary, you’re also casting spells at a single location – it’s more engaging when you have to adjust dynamically to a changing battlefield.
  • The grouping mechanics also act as a soft crowd-control, disabling monsters from attacking players, causing combat to feel stagnant and non-interactive.
  • Grouping increases visual noise, which makes discerning (and hence responding to) monster mechanics difficult.
  • Finally, it can cause server issues. While we are always working on server performance optimizations, we also need to recognize that the current game design rewards players for bringing as many monsters as possible onto the screen at once.
  • CHANGE #2: We are going to make adjustments to crowd control and pull effects to make it harder to perpetually pull monsters onto a single point.

    PROBLEM #3: Extremely high rates of healing favor standing still to do more damage instead of respecting and avoiding monster mechanics .
    CHANGE #3: One of the reasons you can ignore most monster mechanics is the amount of healing available. Expect to see a drastic reduction in available healing.

    Click through to read Wyatt’s full post and his brief follow up, with promises that players will be “shell shocked” when we first try out the new gameplay style.

    Hey folks,

    Many concerns have been brought up regarding “the meta” – the current group composition perceived to be the best at high levels of play. From a design standpoint, our job as a development team is to give players tools and leave room for players to combine these tools and perform optimizations to reach the highest greater rift that they can. The top-performing 4-player group composition is not something we rigidly design. Indeed, we feel that if we designed in such a rigid manner so as to know what the best composition is beforehand, we likely haven’t created a rich enough space for players to explore.

    Over time, the community settles on a small set of ways to combine these tools. Every so often, a discovery is made that shakes up “the meta,” but these discoveries become more rare as the game matures. In reaction to this some players would like us to change the balance of the game just for the sake of change. I want to be clear, “the meta” being stale is not a good enough reason for us to take action. As Diablo matures the “meta” is not going to change every season. With that in mind, there are three criteria we use to decide whether change is warranted:

    1. Does the current best composition represent a variety of classes? For example, we have taken action in the past when 3 Demon Hunters was the best answer, or 2 Monks and 2 Barbarians.

    2. How far ahead is the top tier vs. the next best composition? If the top composition was 2 greater rift tiers ahead there might be a sense that there’s still room for alternate specs, or people could make a playstyle choice at the sacrifice of some efficiency. When the top composition is 10 greater rift tiers ahead, then even farming groups or casual community pickup groups start to organize into this composition.

    3. Most importantly, how interesting is the gameplay? As much as we’d all love to see a variety of classes and gameplay styles, it’s actually the most critical that when you are playing these high-end group compositions that the gameplay is interesting and engaging.

    How do we define interesting and engaging?

  • It’s more interesting and engaging if you are moving occasionally than highly stationary
  • It’s more interesting and engaging if you have to adapt to the type of monster you’re fighting
  • It’s more interesting and engaging when you are playing the monster mechanics
  • It’s more interesting and engaging when a group has to coordinate for maximum benefit
  • Currently there are many suggestions on how to shake up “the meta”. There have been a LOT of really great suggestions. We’ve reviewed many of them through the lens of the three criteria I’ve outlined. Most specifically many people have called for a straight up nerf of the Twisted Sword. While we are going to nerf Twisted Sword, I also want to explain why we are going to do more than that.

    If all we do is nerf Twisted Sword, we believe what will happen is most groups will simply swap out the current top Wizard build and go to the next highest DPS build. You’ll still see a grouper/tank (usually a Monk), a puller (usually a Barbarian), a DPS buffer (a Witch Doctor) and then whoever outputs the highest DPS in the game (currently a Wizard). Only going after the Wizard is going to do very little for addressing criteria #2 and criteria #3.

    There are three major problems and three corresponding major changes we are looking to make.

    PROBLEM #1: Bringing damage support buffers is more effective than bringing a second damage dealer. Why bring damage dealer #2 when you can bring a damage support who increases the damage of damage dealer #1 by 300%?
    CHANGE #1: We are going to be reviewing the party-based damage buffs provided by all the classes. The degree to which some classes can buff party damage is a huge contributor to the 1 DPS – 3 Support meta.

    PROBLEM #2: It is too easy to group monsters together. This is bad because:

  • It disproportionately increases the damage of the group compared to adding a 2nd damage dealer. If you have twice as many monsters grouped, not only are you dealing twice as much total damage – you’re also scaling Area Damage upwards.
  • On top of this, many of the grouping mechanics encourages stationary combat. If you’re chain-pulling monsters to a point, you’re fighting in one location for extended periods of time.
  • In addition to being stationary, you’re also casting spells at a single location – it’s more engaging when you have to adjust dynamically to a changing battlefield.
  • The grouping mechanics also act as a soft crowd-control, disabling monsters from attacking players, causing combat to feel stagnant and non-interactive.
  • Grouping increases visual noise, which makes discerning (and hence responding to) monster mechanics difficult.
  • Finally, it can cause server issues. While we are always working on server performance optimizations, we also need to recognize that the current game design rewards players for bringing as many monsters as possible onto the screen at once.
  • CHANGE #2: We are going to make adjustments to crowd control and pull effects to make it harder to perpetually pull monsters onto a single point.

    PROBLEM #3: Extremely high rates of healing favor standing still to do more damage instead of respecting and avoiding monster mechanics .
    CHANGE #3: One of the reasons you can ignore most monster mechanics is the amount of healing available. Expect to see a drastic reduction in available healing.

    Will this affect solo play? Yes – some solo builds will be affected. For the most part we are trying to target the changes so they affect groups more than solo play. Weighing the needs of solo players vs. group players is a never ending and difficult task and in this case we feel that the quality of improvement to group play warrants the changes. It is an ongoing goal to make more builds viable, and the classes closer together in competitiveness. The requests for buffs to particular class sets or legendary items have been heard, we just feel making meaningful changes to group play is more important at this time.

    Will this cause the highest rift tier to go down? To be frank – probably. We’ve never really done this before – nerfing the top performing builds. There are open questions ahead of us. How will this make the season feel? How will this affect non-seasonal play? In the past we’ve always had a philosophy to adjust the balance of the game by buffing what’s low, but in this case that’s not really an option. Take a look at the problems and solutions being proposed – these are problems that can’t be solved with larger damage numbers. These are problems with group-based damage multipliers, healing, and combat utility.

    Finally – I want to circle back to a statement from the start of this post – as developers we do not know what the new optimal group composition will be. We’re making some significant changes here and the game is intentionally too complex for us to figure out optimal strategies on our own. The collective wisdom of the player base is far more resourceful and capable than us. As a result – we really need people to jump on the PTR and try this stuff out! Particularly 4-player groups. If some highly competitive group discovers a composition of 4 Crusaders that is the most effective but deliberately “hides” it from the rest of the community, then there’s not much we, the development team, can do. While we are ultimately responsible for the quality of Diablo III, we can’t improve this game without your help.

    There will be specific changes available to peruse in the next PTR patch.

    Fair warning: The reduction to group buffs is severe. People will be shell shocked.

    If the goal is that 2 DPS can do more damage than 1 DPS + 1 support then it means no single class can bring > 100% worth of damage multipliers to the party. A support Witchdoctor in particular increases the effectiveness of party DPS by 300%+.

    Big changes there and it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. It could be argued that there’s no objective reason to prefer 2 DPS + 2 support over 1 DPS + 3 support, but as Wyatt says, the 2 DPS style should require more movement and adaption to conditions, rather than just one DPS sitting still while 3 support lock down and drag and generally paralyze all enemies in the area, turning them into punching bags and making the gameplay very un-Diablo-esque.

    You guys agree with the theory and philosophy of these changes? And regardless of how you feel about that, do you think it’ll work? Will the devs be able to shake up the static state of high end parties without adversely affecting everyone else?

    Comments

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    1. How did you conclude that new meta will be 2dps+2supports…?

    2. Haven’t really played much in a long while, but I try to keep a bit of an eye on things that are happening.

      First and foremost, the best thing about this (IMO) is the communication; regardless of the specific changes it’s always nice to see the Devs explaining why they’re making the changes they are, so I appreciate that.

      Second good thing: I’m really really glad to see them finally taking the step of straight up nerfing things and owning up to the nerf, rather than the completely vacuous and dumbfounded philosophy they’ve often previously espoused of: “we don’t want players to feel weaker when they log in”. If next season people are actually completing LOWER Grift levels (as a group) than what they are this season, then that’ll be an unprecedented moment in D3 history and drastically opposed to the ridiculous power creep of previous seasons.

      Are these changes significant/interesting enough to bring people (like myself) back to playing? I doubt it. But I think they’re steps in the right direction.

      • +1

        The policy of never nerfing anything and the resultant power creep is what has ruined D3.

        • What has ruined D3 is making it into a game different than D2. Without skill trees, specs, build choice (other than what a set item TELLS you to use), and killing Deckard Cain and making Tyrael a weak stupid bitch.

    3. The only thing that I don’t like the sound of is nerfing pulling powers again. I see the reason why they want to do it but I really do miss the old days of having a whirlwinding barb that sucked in half the screen like a roomba of death.

      • Unfortunately, balancing the game for allowing the playstyle, while keeping the strength of pulling powers in check, would need a more detailed setup of balancing gears in the skillsystem near, or equal to the amount of detail in the setup of itemization balancing gears. [ : With both gersets interlinking . ] D3 doesn’t have that and all the small itemization gears are just adding up to one, giant balancing gear, as a result, with just big knobs to turn up and down on the skillsystem side. And in that environment, pulling powers are overpowered right now and have to be toned down. Blizzs point there is understandable …

      • Mistakes made in the base design can only compensated by precise visual implementation thus far …

    4. I guess running around a pulling monsters to one place isn’t Diabloesque. To be Diabloesque, you need an Enigma equipped Hammerdin who skips everything except Baal’s throne.

    5. IMO, this seems like a good change for the better b/c I feel it will enhance group play and cooperation. We shall see.

    6. I still think if there was a viable PVP system it would greatly help with keeping the game balanced for PVE.

      We would see more builds if things were better balanced. A nerf if done right might just be the ticket, cause the seasonal power creeps have not worked at all.

    7. Honestly Diablo should be 4

      FOUR

      F O U R

      DPS Characters that have some utility.

      Thats how it should be-

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