Travis Day weighs in on Reaper of Souls Legendary Item drop rates


Travis Day

Travis Day

Travis day has visited the ever popular MVP critique thread and dropped some hefty insight. Travis delves into the disparity of loot, Reaper of Souls legendary item drop rates, current drop rates and the ideal ratio of loot vs time spent.

Nothing is spoken about the color of legendary crafting materials and I’m sure Flux is still dismayed. The posts and more after the bump


Hello folks,

This has been a topic of much discussion within the community so I wanted to take the time to sit down and talk to everyone about drop rates. I’ll start out by saying when F&F went out we set the rates far higher than we knew was appropriate because we wanted to get as much feedback and testing on the new and revised legendary and set items as possible. Over the course of F&F the unanimous feedback both internally and from the community was that the drop rates were too high. We knew this ahead of time but we wanted testers to get their hands on as many cool things as possible while also helping us debug and, ya know, test things.

Travis started the interaction than followed up on questions/comments/critiques.


Hello folks,

This has been a topic of much discussion within the community so I wanted to take the time to sit down and talk to everyone about drop rates. I’ll start out by saying when F&F went out we set the rates far higher than we knew was appropriate because we wanted to get as much feedback and testing on the new and revised legendary and set items as possible. Over the course of F&F the unanimous feedback both internally and from the community was that the drop rates were too high. We knew this ahead of time but we wanted testers to get their hands on as many cool things as possible while also helping us debug and, ya know, test things.

Going into our subsequent beta waves we said we wanted to start narrowing in on what the appropriate drop rates were for legendaries. We had set forth some goals and stated internally what our design intent was so we adjusted these values to reflect a more practical farming environment. As a general rule people won’t speak up if you being too rewarding, usually only a handful of people in a crowd will vocalize that “things may be a bit too high” in terms of drop rate. So when the entirety of our player base and internal team were swarming us with this feedback we knew the drop rates were actually FAR too high. Based on that feedback and also the detailed drop rate data that we track and review on a daily basis, we lowered the drop rates to something more reasonable and closed to what we wanted for release of RoS. For the record, I literally told people internally that I actively wanted to hear the feedback that drop rates were too low. We decisively found where too high was, we needed to find the lower bounds of reasonable so that we could narrow in on a place that would be best for the game.

Now with that said, the data that we have has shown us that drop rates are in the right ball park but that’s not to say they are final. A big piece of the pie that was missing was that we always intended for Kadala to be able to generate legendary items. More specifically she was intended to help give players more direct control over their ability to find specific items they were after. Not to the tune of “I want X item so I buy it” but we wanted players to have a degree of control by saying “Man I really want X helm, so I’ll spend all my Blood Shards buying helms and try to get the one I’m after eventually”. The environment that you have all been playing in has been missing this key piece of the puzzle for quite some time. When we are talking about the overall income of legendary items and finding a good pace for them Kadala has always been intended to factor into this. We are very actively tracking data and adjustments will be made to narrow in more as we proceed. However since obviously you all haven’t had the insight into these conversations I’m here to say that you’ve only been seeing a piece of the pie and with the latest patch should now be seeing the full picture.

A couple of other related notes, Rifts have always been intended to feel highly rewarding and we don’t think they are there yet. We want the obvious answer when someone asks “Whats the most rewarding thing I can kill with the time I have?” to be Rifts, this is part of why access to them is restricted by keys, they are meant to be AWESOME!. We have a plan changed that I’ll be hotfixing in hopefully today or tomorrow to add a reasonably large number of Blood Shards to the loot run boss but more importantly to give him a chance to drop Forgotten Souls. One of the problems that has been expressed here is how legendary and rares compare, barring the obviously build changing ones. A large part of the reason that players sometimes have a hard time replacing a rare with a legendary that should be an upgrade is because, generally, you are comparing rares that have been enchanted many times over to a stock legendary. We want the act of enchanting legendaries to have some degree of investment but what you are seeing in the beta is too much. In addition to being able to use the, soon to be acquired, crafting mats to enchant your legendary items it will also allow everyone a reasonable amount more access to the crafting legendaries.

Lastly on the topic of split farming, this is very clearly not how we want players to play the game. We know of the problems it causes as well as the reasons its occurring and are actively discussing ways to address the problem. While we love coop and we want players to enjoy playing the game together, the right answer should obviously not be “Lets play coop and all go solo in the game!”. I’m walking into a meeting as soon as I post this to discuss the issue and possible solutions.

Hopefully this helps clear the air some and I’ll touch back in later to answer more questions.

Kudos to Travis for weighing into this quagmire. It has to be tough to try to please everyone, and even with the right answer you’ll upset someone else.Not to say I’m defending him but it has to be daunting. Obviously the term “in the ballpark”is a scary thought and Travis quickly took to some responses:


Me again to clarify a couple things.

First off, Kadala is not meant to be the primary source of legendary items, she is meant as a self targeted supplement to the items you find from killing monsters. Diablo is an ARPG and killing monsters should always be the most rewarding thing to do. If Kadala is representing too large a portion of the incoming legendary items than I will address that. She’s meant to be a bonus, not the primary loot acquiring mechanism.

Second, the drop rates being “in the ballpark” means they aren’t off by a factor of 10. The F&F drop rates were at least 5 times higher than what we were aiming for, and the current drop rates are probably likely within the 50-100% range. Again Kadala is meant to cover some of this ground and if she ends up covering more than we want her to we will reduce her chance to generate legendary items and shift the difference into the monsters. It’s a big ballpark but from a top down look, it’s not TOO far from where we want it to be.

I’ve found myself on the end of the spectrum where monsters and Kadala are not giving me much so I may have hesitation to hear the drop rates are 50-100%. However I can also see where the F&F was too high so I can assume game development is hard.


Let me ask you this. What amount of time do you personally think it should take to get a legendary?

After you answer that I’ll give you guys some insight into the numbers we have for contrast.

I’ll say outright that when it comes to rewards what players want and what designers want are generally not going to sync up. We have a game trying to meet the demands of a huge spectrum of players. It’s important to us that everyone have a good experience regardless of how little they play, this is a huge part of why first kill legendary drops were added to bosses. It’s also important to us that people who enjoy playing the game for hundreds of hours to be able to do so without completely exhausting the rewards in a week.

This is something we kind of touched on last podcast. Uniques rained from the sky in d2 but a lot of them were crap. That didn’t diminish the greatness from a good drop however. Right now D3’s legendaries are dropping far too sparsely and are of such a low quality that a great drop seems both far off and far fetched.


Honestly the numbers you guys are throwing out are all reasonable, they are also pretty close to the drop rates that our data is showing. I said I’d show and tell a little so I will.

The drop rates in F&F alpha were as long as 40 minutes per legendary and in the case of MP6 Crushing Blow farming as short as 20 minutes per legendary.

The data that we currently have shows legendary drop rates at roughly 2 hours per, and that’s before Kadala was changed to be able to give legendary items.

The fact that some people claim to go for 10+ hours without finding a legendary is not only not our intent, but should in fact be impossible. We added a system in the expansion that tracks the amount of time you spend fighting creatures without finding a legendary and after a certain period of time will slowly start increasing the legendary drop rate. Once a legendary drops for you, actual item not crafting recipe or material, we reset that timer. This is meant to be a safety net so that the random can never be too extreme to the negative end. If players are legitimately going 18+ hours and not seeing a legendary it’s possible that there are some bugs floating around that need to be identified.

And before anyone responds saying TWO HOURS IS TOO LONG! let me say that we know as time goes on and we patch content or players get better gear and find better specs that will not be the reality. Higher difficulties do in fact increase your chance to find legendary items, coupled with people playing in coop also increasing the rate that everyone overall finds items, etc. Our final target is roughly in the 90 minute range for advanced players. This doesn’t factor in crafting items, trading with friends in coop or any of the other means that we already know players can use to accelerate their legendary acquisition rate.

Betas are incredibly important to the development process, once upon a time we stated we wanted 4 hours per legendary. At the time that we stated that we were living in a land where people on the team had literally never seen a legendary drop so even one every 4 hours sounded like insanity. As the development of RoS has continued and as we have played and tested the game ourselves and also due to the feedback of the community we have moved to a more and more generous environment. We genuinely want D3 RoS to be everything it can be and everything you want, and every change we make when tuning the game is with that goal in mind.

So the question then remains is two hours per legendary a good ratio? I certainly haven’t found them at that rate but maybe I am an outlier. Do the drop rates they have take into account split farming? Travis addresses it as not intended but not if it has impacted their data. One every 40 minutes sounds right by comparison to my F&F experience,90 minutes seems alright but isn’t 60 a nice round number for everyone? A greater question would be: Is Diablo meant to have time played incentives? Is waiting it out an acceptable farming method? One of the things that appealed about d2 was jumping on for a short session, running Meph or Baal, and getting some shiny loot in the process. Not everything was great but you always knew you and a chance. Currently hope seems diminished by comparison. Even in Vanilla you could play for a short duration and gather something that could be sold,which in turn could get you an item you wanted. Now the option is only to wait. The other factor not addressed is the wall players seem to hit where their rare gear is not being replaced by the legendaries that they find. Perhaps if the legendaries are scaled up this wouldn’t be a problem?

As usual answers beget more questions, which beget more questions. What are your thoughts on what Travis Day had to say?

Update: And to prove that, Travis dropped by to clarify more on this subject, based on feedback to the above.

Comments

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  1. A timer seems so far from Diablo that I’m speechless.

    • I don’t have any problem with a timer.

      As I’ve said before, I think the place the Diablo series needs to be is where you login and slaughter a bunch of demons. The most FUN I’ve had in Diablo is pushing my limits, being extra daring, to try to kill any many demons as quickly as possible. Its a real rush when you are on a razor’s edge.

      The best ENCOUNTER in D2 was Battlemaid Sarina in the ruined temple in Act 3. That was great because you knew total chaos was likely waiting for you the moment you clicked the stairs. And if not, you held your breath and slowly nudged forward and then 231441235 mobs ZOOMED in on you.

      The POINT is…that gear doesn’t matter. I say, eliminate trading, make it all soulbound, and instead, create more nerve-wracking fights like Sarina. because that is what Diablo should be.

      I think they will likely arrive at that point by the second xpac. I like the progress…the evolution taking place.

      • And, you shouldn’t have any problem with the timer because it’s always been the case.

        Here’s my comment about legendary drop rates after a patch, 1.5 years ago.

        htt p://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/blizzard-on-random-drops-and-nasty-keywardens/comment-page-1#comment-93614

        —————– QUOTE ————–

        Permaximum
        October 21, 2012 at 10:09

        “Although I hate Blizzard and Diablo 3, I have to say this decreased drops are definetely related to RNG (I don’t play D3 but read your words on this issue).

        I also don’t know the patch notes but Blizzard probably increased the drop chance. When this happens, RNG (not random in fact) quickly tries to “normalize” the drops you got in your “total play time”.

        E.G: Before the patch you got 48 legendaries (probably a number between something like 40-60) in 500 hours. With the addition of the newest patch and increased drop rates, RNG concludes that you should have gotten at least 50-75 in your total play time. Then it quickly rewards you with 2 legendaries in a small amount of time. Think it like you got unlucky for a huge amount of time and then RNG smiles on you and gives a lot better loot. Then it normalizes again.

        If Blizzard increases drop rates in the future again, it’ll be the same (for people that played the game A LOT)”

        —————END QUOTE——————

        If devs didn’t read a 1.5-year old comment and suddenly decided to go with this approach, it has always been the case.

        I can smell post-WoW Blizzard’s approach on game design from a mile away.

    • As with others, my first thought was how a timer could be exploited. By botting or just by situational awareness. If the timer is set to 2 hours and you’ve played 110 minutes and haven’t found a legendary, wouldn’t you be smart to quit your game and move up to Torment?

      Even if you don’t have the gear for Torment, just noodle around killing trash mobs and letting the minutes tick past, knowing your odds of a leg dropping are growing every second, and that it might be a much higher quality leg than you’d ever find on your appropriate difficulty level.

      That said, I don’t have any real objection to a maximum duration leg timer. As Travis says, players shouldn’t go 12 or 18 hours without finding anything green/orange, as was often the case in the early days of D3. I just don’t like the implication that the only or primary reason you find legs is that some in-game timer is boosting your odds. That’s why I liked MF so much; if you wanted more legs, you could do something with your gear to create them. Not just grinding mindlessly and hoping for the best.

      • I suspect it would be a combination of kills + timer, because a timer alone is obviously easy to exploit as you’ve shown.

        Blizzard devs might get things wrong a lot of the time, but it tends not to be drop-dead simple things like that.

        • Right. Like commmas.

          Exception that proves the rule?

        • I have played ROS for more than 2 hours without Leg drops and the ones that did drop weren’t game changing. I’m all for MF adding to our chances as well. I liked MF in that it did help us up the rate.

          However, I’m totally not against the timer either. However, that timer isn’t working for me. I’m still not getting legs every 2 hours. I think leaving the game your in must also reset the timer, but, perhaps Travis hasn’t mentioned it yet.

      • Does it really matter if people want to exploit at this point? It really is just ruining the experience for themselves since you can’t trade or sell the items.

      • “a system in the expansion that tracks the amount of time you spend fighting creatures without finding a legendary and after a certain period of time will slowly start increasing the legendary drop rate”
        “time fighting creatures”: means that the timer runs only when in combat (when we cannot change skills)
        “drop rate slowly start increasing”: no evidence that it increases up to 100%

      • I certainly don’t know what the right answer is, but like you, Flux, my first thought went to D2 and Meph/Baal runs. They’re saying that “90 minutes feels right,” but back then with decent MF gear or swaps you were almost guaranteed at least one set or legendary each run, if not more than one, and runs could take 5-10 minutes with good teleporters. It still took a long time to find the best stuff (for example, despite my thousands of hours playing D2 I never found even one SoJ or a rune higher than Mal). But it felt great seeing a shower of gold and green each kill, and hoping one was good.

        One thing I liked from that meta was the fact that most of the best gear for playing could be self-found by anyone with dedication. Most of the rarest legendaries and sets were more trophy items – people didn’t really create main builds around them, so if you did find one it gave you the excuse to create and try out a new alt. The stuff that really fueled the fire was every rare crusader bow that you just “knew” would drop Windforce next time. You could actually expect to find build-making items like Titan’s Revenge or Arreat’s Face.

        The other things I miss, which I have previously talked to death, are ATMA and useful gear being found at all levels. Maybe people like me are just too small of a demographic to cater to, but I like to hoard/collect stuff, and there’s no way to do that effectively in D3, with it being all online, and no armory or other mechanic for that. And in D2, maybe you were well past your need for that Sigon’s helm, but your next alt sure could use it to level. Maybe you don’t need that Shaftstop but it’s great merc gear. That perfect Chance Guards roll will serve you well down the farming line. And so on.

        I’ll probably end up buying and trying RoS, but I am not very optimistic. I still haven’t played D3 at all for well over a year. It wasn’t even a ragequit, it just didn’t sound like fun to log in and play anymore. I hope the expansion changes that but it doesn’t sound like it will. It sounds like they are mistaking adding layers of new mechanics (how many different things do you have to try to acquire through salvage at this point?) for fixing the fun.

        • You might be a little rose-tinted in your glasses. After all, we spent years making angry jokes about goddamned green breastplates. That said, it’s pretty ridiculous how far the D3 guys have moved from the slot machine payoff fun of item finding in D2.

          I get that they want legs to be special and build changing and all that, and plenty of uniques/sets in D2 were junk, or mediocre at best… but it’s still fun to find such things. You don’t really mind most of them being junk if you find them so often.

          The scarcity of legs in D3 puts much more pressure on every one to be good, or else you feel like your 2 hours of play time was wasted.

    • What’s worse, a timer, or a player who doesn’t find any legendary in a long time, gives up and quits?
      What’s funny is that if the existence of the timer had not been revealed, no one would have been “hurt” by it. I guess what is hurt here are your principles (of what a Diablo game should be).

      • what if someone can play only 1h daily? At this point it means he will not find a leg almost ever.

        • First of all, we don’t know if the timer resets when you exit a game or not.

          Second, you are assuming that the normal drop rates are so low, that you wouldn’t find a Legendary without the timed bonus.

        • No – that’s not how probability works.

          They want to aim for you to find a legendary on AVERAGE every 90 minutes of playing – so if you play for an hour at a time, you should be seeing a legendary drop in slightly less than half the sessions that you play.

          The 2 hour+ drop rate boost is just so the people who play long sessions can’t get too screwed over by an angry RNG god and see nothing after 6 hours of playing – that’s no fun and it used to happen a lot.

    • I think timer is really just a 2nd-level add-on to the loot system.

      In other words, the RNG still has priority over your drops; meaning, you could get 3 Legendaries in 5 minutes if you’re really lucky. I had 3 drop for me in 5 minutes a couple days ago in regular Diablo 3 during a Fields of Misery run. I don’t think that will change in RoS.

      In RoS, if I understand it correctly, there is also a Timer running BEHIND the RNG, so that in the event your are really unlucky and get NO Legendary drops after 2 straight hours of monster killing, then a Legendary will be guaranteed to drop for you off the next monster you kill. And every time one does drop, with or without the timer’s assistance, the timer will reset back to zero.

      I’m fine with this.

      However, it’s not the frequency of the drops that bothers me – it’s the QUALITY of them.

      I do not think a “Legendary” item should have bad or useless stats on them. By definition, a Legendary should be guaranteed to be awesome and extremely powerful. That is not the case right now. There is too much variance on Legendary stats to make them guaranteed items we must have, outside of crafting material.

      • “the RNG still has priority over your drops; meaning, you could get 3 Legendaries in 5 minutes if you’re really lucky.”

        This is exactly right. In fact this happened to me on the PTR, but with only 2 Legendaries.

        “In RoS, if I understand it correctly, there is also a Timer running BEHIND the RNG, so that in the event your are really unlucky and get NO Legendary drops after 2 straight hours of monster killing, then a Legendary will be guaranteed to drop for you off the next monster you kill”

        Kinda. We actually don’t know if the chance can ever reach 100%, but you got the general idea.

  2. Thank Travis for the feedback , if you read this. Hope everything is in a great place by release!

  3. Personally I think 90 minutes per legendary is fine. The idea that we have some bonus timer that virtually guarantees us a legendary seems kind of strange though, although I guess with the focus on 2.0 being build defining legendary items it makes sense to make sure we get some of them. That said, most of the current legendary items are kind of pathetic. Every single legendary item should have some kind of unique power, especially since legendary items now scale through the levels. What the heck are you supposed to do with a level 70 The Crudest Boots?

  4. I’d like to thank Travis, for confirming my suspicions that the D3 dev team are completely lost and have no idea what to do when it comes to itemization.

    They really need to change the name of this game, because nothing about it left is recognizable as a Diablo game.

    • For heroes of the storm, the starcraft dev team ACTUALLY tries to stay AWAY from the D3 team.

      They are using the strong badass Diablo in D2 as a playable character instead of Leablo and Tyrael is actually an ANGEL with swords and not Obama.

      No1 in Blizzard wants to be associated with the Diablo 3 team if they have a choice.

    • It’s like watching a train crash in slow-motion. I’m basically just rubbernecking at this point.

    • Agreed, that slim chance that I would buy RoS has now basically completely vanished.

    • I just sent Blizzard a support ticket asking for a refund on my pre-order. I’ve had it with these people until further notice.

    • You know who’s really lost? People who still come here after almost 2 years, expecting a complete overhaul of the game.

    • I’m going to be expecting a detailed post from you explaining exactly what the problem is in a system that uses some compensatory math to make dry spells tenable.

      It’s not like the system is saying, “herp derp you MUST play for 2 hours until you get a legendary.” Nor is it saying, “You will get a legendary in exactly 2 hours.” It’s just a helping hand for dry spells, and counterbalances the “player discouragement death spiral.” (Aka, one of the reasons I don’t bother logging into PoE anymore.)

      So how does this confirm that suspicion, or provide new info that you didn’t already have?

      • I’m now convinced that 97% of video gamers are complete idiots without basic reading comprehension, reasoning skills, or impulse control.

      • A good itemization system wouldn’t have dry spells in the first place. So the fact that they are so acknowledged as to need compensatory math to make them tenable is pretty awkward.

        And I’m pretty sure the thrust of his statement was about the whole picture and not just the one aspect of the ‘timer.’

    • Grumpy Azzure! It’s Diablo, A VIDEO GAME. Go make your own, let’s see your magical itemization in action! With all of your statistics knowledge, I’m sure you’ve already hit the lottery… or bullied the stock market… or emptied a casino… no?

    • Azzure – king of constructive feedback

      • There has been constructive feedback. Loads of it, ever since the game was first shown to the public.

        Unfortunately, the game envisioned by those who offered that feedback always seemed to differ substantially from Blizzard’s plans for D3 and rarely seemed to be even taken into serious consideration.

        • Incorrect. Practically every single thing that Blizz has done since release has been in direct response to the feedback they were getting from the community. That includes the various tweaks to drop rates that they have made and continue making.

  5. B]before[/B] the timer kicks in. Maybe a timer capped at 1 hour, along with full ladder resets (including wiping clean artisans/stash/gold?) would make re-rolling characters even more appealing and add a lot more lifespan to the game. =^-^=
    I think the “legendary timer” is a fair enough solution to mediate drop rates…in fact I think the game needs some element to ensure that legendaries/sets will drop considering the restrictions on trading/no AH. They need to make sure that it works properly though, as it doesn’t appear to be according to Travis’ info.

    As for the time per legendary drop, I think 1.5-2hrs is a fair amount…so long as legendaries can still drop

    before
     the timer kicks in. Maybe a timer capped at 1 hour, along with full ladder resets (including wiping clean artisans/stash/gold?) would make re-rolling characters even more appealing and add a lot more lifespan to the game. =^-^=
  6. Drops on a timer?

    Botting defintely the way to go

    • Except.. BOA, right?

      BTW, why do we still have an AH button on the PTR/Beta client?

      • BOA + drops on timer heavily encourages botting, do not let the BOA tag fool you. It will be the best way to get loot and punishes legitmate players.

        AH button is still there as a precaution in case Bobby still need a little more funds for a new yacht if the 2014 COD series does not sell well.

        • I don’t think that someone out there botting himself BoA gear punishes me in any way, like, whatsoever. At least not until solid PvP is implemented.
          Also, botting is probably the best way to get gear, BoA or not, timer or not.

        • The timer should have negative impact on botting.

          Why? Because you don’t get frustrated for not getting loot.

          When some friends started botting in D2 what was the reason I asked? Well generally it was because you couldn’t find that good loot by yourself really efficiently. It was so rare to find those good uniques.

          Now when you get loot in decent time and generally it is good since smart drops and mystic.. maybe there is less reasons to do botting.

      • Probably because the 2.0 patch is hitting before AH shut down, so they have to put that button somewhere.

  7. I wonder if TD realizes that, by admitting that drop rates are basically being tuned around Kadala, he’s basically saying that decent drop rates are now an expansion-only feature. Do you remember when Josh was promising “end game for everyone” as recently as Gamescom? ‘Cuz nobody at Blizzard seems to. Deeply disappointed.

    • You must have missed this sentence:
      “First off, Kadala is not meant to be the primary source of legendary items”
      Also this one:
      “If Kadala is representing too large a portion of the incoming legendary items than I will address that”
      And probably this one:
      “She’s meant to be a bonus, not the primary loot acquiring mechanism”

      • Yeah Gambling is basically a system that helps to beat some of the huge randomness of the system.

        If you never find a helmet legendary for some reason you can try to gamble it.

        I think it is quite fine and I did do a lot of gambling in D2 as well.. gambing is fun.

      • Exactly. RoS players will absolutely have a better chance to get Legendaries because of Kadala, but it’s not intended to be that much of a bonus. If it will be, the nerf hammer will strike down with a vicious blow.

        • I’ve found 4 legs in the past couple of days, and 3 of them were amulets. Just luck of the RNG there, but it shows why gambling could be helpful, to fill in the blanks.

          It’s way too soon to estimate the gambling rate and how that’ll work, but I know 1 person who has gambled a leg so far (a crossbow) and that’s out of 5 or 6 people who have gambled around 400+ shards each. I’ve done about 650 shards (I had 400 when the patch hit) and gotten nothing but rares, though I did get slight upgrades for my Monk and DH via those rare weapons.

  8. I still think it’s too long. With the RNG factor, alot of legendary drops are still crap. You could do boss runs in D2 and find a unique every 5 mins. Were some of them crap. For sure! Overall, was that game breaking? No. (Forget about duping for a minute) And they didn’t even have BoA. With the BoA factor, I think this needs to be much higher.

    As a player, I should have a reasonable expectation to complete a significant number of sets and collect a good number of quality uniques within say a hundred or two hours of gameplay. That’s a a lot of time. If I only find one every two hours, that’s just 50 total in 100 hrs. Taking out duplicates and crap, how many do you think would really be usable? 5? 10? That’s pretty poor IMO.

    Disclaimer: coming from someone that plays one of each class HC and SC on a semi-casual basis, average 1 hr a day.

    • I agree. I think it’s significantly lower than what I see in D3V right now, and my character is far from amazing (Plvl 70-something DH with 120k DPS).

  9. “We added a system in the expansion that tracks the amount of time you spend fighting creatures without finding a legendary and after a certain period of time will slowly start increasing the legendary drop rate.”

    Honestly, I swear a version of this is already in the game. It seems after I go a month or so without playing, the first several hours it practically rains legendarily in my game. That’s a lot of fun, but as soon as the ‘hidden magic find’ wears off, I loose interest again.

    • You have to play the game for the timer to kick in.

      If you kill monsters for lets say 8 hours without legendary drop .. by still killing monsters and time going forward the change of drop increases.. when you get the legendary loot the timer resets.

      • I think he’s suggesting that a different timer exists for returning players to reward them initially so they want to keep playing. Kind of like how WoW offers you 1 week of free play time periodically to get you to return, Diablo gives out extra legendaries the first couple hours after you return.

        I don’t know if it’s true, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

  10. This Travis guy with all respect, just as the whole dev team is a complete incompetent…

    They should just accpet the fact that the Diablo pants are way to big for them and step aside…

    Diablo should start fresh with a D4 with the original team (Blizzard North) in place AS SOON AS POSIBLE.

    I ache everytime a see this clawns…

    • I think Dave Brevik is too busy looking at all the money that’s pouring into Marvel Heroes and looking at his dedicated, responsive team of devs who work dozens of hours of overtime each week. They listen to the community and they have kept the core of what an ARPG should be whilst adding their own twist (the MMO part).

      Seriously, what motivation would Brevik and Roper etc. have for going back to Blizzard? Literally none.

      Don’t get me wrong I’d love for a reuinion of the Class of D2 but it just ain’t happening. I think D3 will be the last game in the series after all that’s happened.

      • Marvel Heroes the game that has 58.56% score on GameRankings.com? Yeah, they would definetely had better start than this team.

        • No one’s mentioned Hellgate London yet? Haters have short memories or what? People were much angrier at Bill Roper and the other devs about that game than I’ve ever seen anyone about D3. Yet.

          • Well HellGate was a bad and barebones game, just like D3. I think people were really cruel with Flagship at the time but I dont see myself ever feeling sorry for D3. Nope, sorry Blizzard, unlike Flagship, you had the time and budget to it right.

          • There’s still time Flux, there’s still time…

  11. Honestly do the developers even play the game? Travis throws out data and numbers but lets get real here and ask do any of them sit down and play the game? I’m serious because I really do no think any of them do. How can any of them justify there choices when if you clearly sit down and play the game, you will know that something does not fell right. Why is it that more and more I hear I loss hope. This pisses me off because I love Diablo and I still play everyday. One word Diablo Team its called PROGRESSION! Write it down on all your white boards. If players do not feel they are progressing whether its through items or character leveling then you have failed and people will stop playing.

  12. Its like, someone on the team thought everyone hated doing D2 boss runs and they are trying to fix it somehow… except people liked doing boss runs. Compromise: make rift bosses drop like D2 boss runs used to. You still have to do bounties and whatever to get the keys but when you do, you get that classic D2 boss kill excitement feeling.

    If someone from Blizzard reads this and would like to hire me to help them design better games, I’m fairly expensive but totally worth it.

    • I didn’t boss runs were freaking boring.

      I generally just cleaned River of Flame + CS .. complete cleans then killed Diablo.

      What these bossruns do is open the seals and just kill Diablo. Okey it is fine if you are level 93+ and don’t get much exp from anything but diablo.

      In multiplayer killing bosses was also not fun since you never got any loot since those pickit hacks got them all.

  13. Gotta love the what our data shows chart.
    Question to TD , does your chart count Guaranteed Legendary drops from Bosses for first kill ? if so then your whole chart is wrong(Assuming they didn’t count) , Have you even played the game ? I swear my Barbarian has 10 hours playtime and I found only 1 Legendary while leveling(not boss kill) , is that normal ? is this what Diablo should feel like ?

    Really , I think the whole Diablo 3 Team should be “forced” to play D2 , That’s how itemization should work like in D2 and that’s how it should drop.
    Alot of Uniques drop in D2 and you know that you could find 100 Unique per sitting and it wouldn’t “ruin” your game , not in the least , because many of the Uniques are not game breaking nor are will they make you Godly but knowing that you might find that amazing Unique in the next run keeps you playing for hours , instead we have to play in their version of D3 where you can go for hours without finding anything and when you do find something it is probably just another higher version of a rare with nothing special on it and that’s when it stings the most , because you know that you are probably gonna spend another 5+ hours without legendaries at all.

    They should make the drop rate for legendaries as close as possible to Live mp10 with Paragon 50+ , instead of nerfing all the drops they should work on each item and giving them different drop chances and make some very common , others super rare , others in the middle. I will take D2 as an example again , Tal Rasha’s Mask, String of Ears , Raven Ring , Manald Ring , Frost Burn and Magefist , all these are insanely awesome Uniques that were VERY common , they allowed the player to make some really OP PvE characters back in 1.09 atleast and you still farmed for hours on hours hoping to get that super version of some of these items like Vampire Gaze , Shako , Stormshield , Tal’s Chest , IK Chest , Titan Javelin , Arreat’s Helm.
    This is the carrot on a stick and it worked amazingly well , they need to make Andariel’s Visage as common as it is on Live currently(almost every helm is Andariel’s Visage) and Mempo super rare , Firewalker’s very common , IceClimbers rare and so on.
    Not this timer thing to make sure that you don’t go on for 10 hours without finding a legendary , who would want to play a game that the main purpose of it is finding legendaries and they can find one every 2-3 hours only and when they do find one , it might be just another crappy legendary and you salvage it and know deep down in your heart that all your gametime was almost wasted and not worth it , this alone is enough to stop many from playing. It is why I have leveled 4-5 characters on PTR to 60 and having a blast all the way up to 60 and then as soon as I hit 60 , I log off that character and leave it to rot because I know that I won’t be finding anything good on it , Leveling is fun because I progress and I get better loot all the time on regular basis.

    Rant over , Fix this game already.

  14. Rofl…. Old posts everyone QQs its to low. Now this is BS. What do people want? I see nothing wrong in the game tbh. Its just that ARPGs are just no longer the 5 year play days on end kind of games. I perfectly see my self playing for 100 hours and then just be done with it 🙂 love all changes and way they react to uaefull feedback.

    • There will always be QQ, but after every change it’s a different group of people that do it. Popular games have it the worst, because for these the forums will always be full of complaints, no matter what the devs do.

  15. I’m sure the timer will factor in actually spending that time killing monsters and not from town sitting time.

  16. I sometimes feel like going back to Diablo II and making my own mods again everytime I hear from the devs from this game 😀

  17. QUOTE

    Diablo should start fresh with a D4 with the original team (Blizzard North) in place AS SOON AS POSIBLE.
    
    

    I don’t think that’s going to happen but you can give Hellgate London a go. Everyone dissatisfied with D3 should definitely play it 😉

  18. Ill sign for a Guaranteed Legendary any day. I have leveled 2 toons in D3V from 0-60 before i bought an low lvl legendary from the AH and got the legendary archievement. So i think i litery didn’t found any legendary in about 70 Hours!!!! Ill take this solution any day!

  19. I think 90 minutes is too high. At least when you factor in that it will take a lot of time to even get to this rate in the first place. But, let us just assume that 90 minutes is there from the beginning.

    Let’s say I play a Wizard and want to do a specific build that requires one full set and 2 specific legendary affixes from other legendaries.

    That’s 7 specific items you’ll need. How many legendary items is there in the game? 200, 150? Lets say 150. Then you’ll need around 200-250 legendaries to have a reasonable chance of finding all the legs you’ll need for your build. That’s almost 400h!! And after that, how big chance is there that they have good stats or even the stats that you seek from your build. Very low chance.

    Do they expect me to farm for 300+ hours just to be able to get the items I need for my build? How many ppl can put up that kind of time for a single character?

    I don’t think the F&F beta is very far from what they should aim for. Partly because nobody will have a farm-able speed in T6 like they had with crushing blow, and partly because there need to be a high chance to support players in building the character they want.

    The reason BoA is a good idea is that they can make the game so much more rewarding without breaking it. And then they go and lower the overall drop rate from vanilla. DUDE?!

    • 300h is not that much.. I had like 1 year break from D3.. I have multiple 60 level chars both in SC and HC and my main and first char has 350h or so.

      Sure it was during 2 years (-1 year break about) so I’m fine with not getting my character as DONE in couple months. I wanna play this game long.. not just a couple months and then its pretty much done.

      Besides when farming for that specific set you might find some pretty cool other items that all the time can change your build.

      Who knows maybe you can find a more fun build to play and don’t even want do that original build you wanted.

    • While I agree with you that 90 minutes is too long of an interval between guaranteed drops, the problem is that you’re still thinking about it as “I want to play this build, now I need to accumulate items for it” instead of thinking about it as, “What builds can I play with the items that I’ve obtained so far?”

      The former is more “traditional” ARPG, Blizzard clearly wants D3 to be the latter.

      • “The former is more “traditional” ARPG, Blizzard clearly wants D3 to be the latter.”

        Another example of how they want to dictate what should be fun and how to play the game, rather than providing options for players to play however they like. If I like boss runs, who cares, let me do boss runs. If I want to use a build that I find fun, even if it’s less effective, that’s my choice.

  20. I do not understand how you came to the conclusion that there is a timer. The guy just said that the probability to find a legendary starts to rise after a while. It does not mean that you will get a legendary after playing for 121 minutes. Even if the drop rate is multiplied by two after these two hours, it can still be quite small. So randomness is still present.

    Considering the actual numbers of legendaries per hour… I live on a completely different planet. One legendary every hour would be much *higher* that what I can actually get in D3 Vanilla. I understand that the drop rates should be increased because of the absence of the AH in the expansion and the random quality of the legendaries. But one legendary per hour seems huge compared to what I find now.

    This is where I really see the “brick wall” between high level and low level players in D3. And I really understand the difficulty to equilibrate the game, at the same time, for dedicated players and for someone like me who plays few hours a week.

    • Technically it’s still a timer, even if it doesn’t result in guaranteed Legendaries. What it does is start increasing Legendary drop rates a certain amount of time went on without one dropping. I’d call that a timer. 🙂

  21. Well, I can’ really express my astonishment about their incapability anymore. A timer on item drops in a Diablo game…
    Seems we reached the level where they implement things only 12 year-olds would be suggesting in bad grammar on the forums.

    I mean I understand where they are coming from. Legendaries is the only thing left in the itemization that bears a minimum of entertainment, if you can call it like that. Finding none of these makes the whole thing pointless, there is nothing interesting left in this game.

    At this point they should just rename the game to “Find orange light columns online”.

    • Well if you don’t have this kind of timer system and you play 50h without legendary drop because of some silly 1:1000000 RNG.. you promise that you don’t go to forums whining?

  22. Travis doesn’t seem to understand the concept of “bonus”.

    He’s saying the legendary drops need to take into account gambling, and then says gambling is supposed to be an additional bonus.

    So if gambling is supposed to be a bonus, this means finding legendaries from drops should be at a sufficient level, and anything you get from gambling is actually a genuine bonus on top of this.

  23. I finally made the beta … and the expansion content is awesome … but I dont see how anyone can do torment very well without some really good legendary gear … and after probably 10 hours of play I have only found two legendaries. One was good and the other was garbage. I definitely see how rare gear is much more easy to find and tweak than working with the very few legendary items that are dropping.

    • I’m pretty sure you can do Torment I with mix of good rares and legendaries.

      Thats where you start seeing more legendaries to drop..

      It is not good if the loot system is too rewarding at the beginning. It means your character gets done too quickly.. because the moment you progress to higher difficulties you start to see even more loot drops.

  24. Question for you guys n galls.
    What would you rather have?

    High droprates + permanent builds
    or
    Low droprates + current skill system

    Because the way I see it these have quite a lot to do with each other.

    Option 1:
    You find awesome “buildchanging” items on a regular basis, but need to invest time to start a new char around the item you’ve found.

    Because of this extra time invested droprates can be significantly higher. If smart drops are even required is questionable.

    Option 2:
    You find an awesome “buildchanging” item every once in a while, but can change skills on the fly accordingly.

    In this case lower droprates are required for players not to exhaust every possible skill/item combination too quickly. Smart drops are required to make the few good drops you do get worth the effort.

    Thoughts?

    • (relatively) High drop rates + current skill system. Reason below.

      “Because of this extra time invested droprates can be significantly higher.”

      Ask yourself this: how much of your time is spent leveling new characters in games where you can’t respec versus playing with high level characters? I’d bet that you do the latter much more often. The former isn’t a huge time sink in games I’ve played, so I really doubt it’s the reason for the higher drop rates in D2. Even if it is, it’s a misguided one.

  25. Drop rate in Diablo game can never be too high. After all, Diablo always was about the candy dispensing monsters.

    • And yet everyone was whining too high drop rate during F&F beta.

      Is it fun that all there is to collect is collected in 1 month? It should be closer to 1 year.

  26. If finding legendaries is the only engame – make it hard.

    As it stands having “uber-gear” is still the only goal in this why make it rain leggies all day?

    Passcode:
    broken record

  27. That guaranteed legendary item is a mere drop in the bucket for people like me, who will play a few hours every day. It’s not game breaking and all it will (probably) be, are items you’re gonna salvage.

    But for the guys who will forever be stuck in sub-torment, it changes the game from frustrating to rewarding.
    And the people who play much, still will find the most legendaries (duh!). Doesn’t matter if they present the noobs with a godlike item now and then. Also there won’t be an AH that can be flooded with those items and further gimp the item hunt.

  28. Finally, some hard data about drops. Travis is quickly becoming my favorite D3 dev (not that I know many of them).

    I think 2 hours on the low-end (no Torment, playing solo, without MF) for Legendaries would be fine, but right now it’s definitely not happening. I had 4-5 hours long play sessions for 2 weeks when the PTR went up and I had days where I didn’t get even one Legendary. Their new system is clearly buggy.

    As for the actual system, I think it’s fine. People saying that timers like this encourage botting have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. No matter what the drop rates are, there’s always an average time interval between Legendaries when you have a sufficiently large set of data, or in other words when you play a lot. The Legendary timer only enforces this average to reduce fluctuations. This way players won’t have a chance to be screwed in the short term. Since bots tend to run for extremely long times this change actually won’t affect them much, if at all.

    • I’m also surprised at how much people are misunderstanding the consequences of this system.
      Could the system be abused? Probably. But I think that it will be a fun experience. In essence you would be incentivised to try out harder game modes for a little bit.
      That said… we can’t really exploit the system since we have no idea how it works. It’s now inevitable that we will se a bunch of superstitions arise from this announcement.

  29. Xanth: “Now the option is only to wait.”

    Did you read you won post? Could you try to stick to the objective journalism? After all you are taking yourself for a journalist, aren’t you?

  30. 1 leg per hour would seem good to start with, obviously making best legs harder to get. Though timer should stay at 2h, so it would trigger only when somebody has really bad luck.

  31. Timer is imo a retarded idea. So far from true diablo core. And we can;t even trade them.

    So i can get 1 leg/2 hours but how many of them will be good? Do i need to farm 20 hours for 1 good leg? 200 hours for 1 great leg?

    I liked meph and baal runs because there was always somethinng there with right MF. While MOST of it sucked it was still good enough for alts. Just seeing it drop is cool. 1l/2h is meh.

    %chance, yes, timer based? No thank you.

    Also, if i play for 1h daily does it mean i will enver find legendary because i will never hit 2h mark ? what?

  32. Personally I’m not opposed to a 2 hour timer although I could see how this would upset the more hardcore crowd. Having a timer normalizes droprates irrespective of killing speed and gear (not completely but it narrows the gap). It means a more casual player can still find loot at a decent rate without having to grind out good gear to kill fast at high difficulty.

    Also, and this is a big plus in my books, it allows people to explore “non-efficient” builds without serious penalty to your droprate. I think overall this might help build diversity in the game without feeling pigeonholed into one or two builds.

    • It’s worth emphasizing that this system only normalizes things on the low end. It’s still very much worth it to push for the higher difficulties and better gear if you want to be more efficient in your item farming.

      I very much agree with your comment about exploring less efficient builds though. The new difficulty rewards already make this a more viable alternative, timed Legendaries are just icing on the cake.

  33. QUOTE

    what if someone can play only 1h daily? At this point it means he will not find a leg almost ever.

    If the MTTH is truly every 2 hours, then that player should average a legendary every other day.

    I think people are misinterpreting what this “timer” really means. It’s simply a way to soften outliers on the unlucky side of the spectrum, not the only way that legendaries can drop.

    • Yeah, it’s not like Legendaries will only drop after 2 hours of play time. That would be silly. They still have a base drop chance, the timer is only there to try to limit the intervals you can go without finding a Legendary.

  34. I really hate the Diablo community.

  35. This comment section is particularly funny in how people either complain that D3 has nothing to do with Diablo anymore, or that a new system encourages botting….when D2 encouraged botting!!

    Which is it guys? Is this game becoming more like D2 or less?

  36. The one comment that stuck with me about D3 classic is that the game was SO designed around playing the auction house that anyone who hated trading and just wanted to spend time playing the game was driven away. So after over a year that, the D3 fanbase was VERY pro trading.

    But since the problem is the auction house and trading making it too easy to gear up, they were faced with a problem:

    1. leave trading and the AH in the game to satisfy fans of the current system, but they will never be able to fix the game.
    2. eliminate those things to try to win back the people who left, at the same time upsetting the currently (small) fanbase.

    There is risk here that people who hated the AH and ease of trading will never pick up the expansion and that the damage is done. But they are taking a shot.

  37. Legendary items are the only potentially interesting items that can drop in D3, which is why the loot system is so boring, hell, it is why the game is so boring.

    Personally, I’d prefer legendary items to be somewhat common in the lower difficulties, but as you progress into Torment, there are completely new sets of legendary items per tier (or two) for progression, but also make them rarer the higher the difficulty.

    Gems are so annoying as drops for me, they seem so uninteresting. I wish the higher the tier, the rarer and more uncommon they become. Much like runes in D2. And for the JCer to be removed! (Still waiting for jewels to return.)

    /random rant over *shrug*

    • Your tiered Legendaries idea are already in the game in a way. Legendaries already have at least 2 tiers of rarity, probably more. The ones with the most powerful affixes are more rare.

      Then as I’m sure you know, Torment has exclusive (but not strictly better) Legendaries, that don’t drop on the lower difficulties.

      • Yeah. I do like the idea of Torment only items. I just wish we had more options instead of legendary hunting. I remember I loved crafting the Crafted or Themed items with the cube in D2. Crafting in D3 is fairly boring :s.

        I have no idea if my post has any point, but it is hot and I am tired here so I am rambling. 😀

        • “wish we had more options instead of legendary hunting”

          I kinda do too. Much more random and interesting events around the Acts would be nice, together with hard challenges that would tough to complete. I also wouldn’t mind more Infernal Machine type events.

          • You mean Cursed Chests on too high difficulty level? No, you’re not, cause they’re not rewarding 🙂

          • I love those Cursed events, but their rewards should at the very least be doubled. Other than that issue, yeah, more of that would be nice, much more actually, each event possibly having unique rewards.

  38. Yeah! A drop timer. Is there no end to their stupid ideas?

    Magic Find affix, put it back. Itemization, create some.

    At the rate the D3 Devs are going the only thing left for them to do is control our characters for us when we login. We can’t assign stat points, we can’t assign skill points, we can’t create a character build, we can’t find or craft items that are not for our class, we can’t fight against monsters below our character level, we can’t increase our chances at finding magic/rare/set/legendary items, we can’t trade what we find after leaving a game, we can’t be creative, we can do anything outside of the box, we can’t be different than anyone else… we have no control over anything, and as such, might as well not be able to control our character either.

    As Azzure said, Blizzard needs to change the name of the game. The game sure as hell isn’t a Diablo game.

  39. diablohaters.incgamers.com

  40. I think people need to try out the PTR first before commenting, it’s really quite a lot more enjoyable experience now, and has taken me from not getting the expansion, to getting it. Leveling a toon to 60, I would say I got 5 legs, with one being crap if only because it was a helm without a socket.

    As for people complaining about the timed drops, I think it’s freaking great. How fun is it to play for a day and not get anything due to the RNG gods? Sure there’s probably some exploits they need to work on like Flux mentioned, but beyond that, hard to see why people would complain about it.

    • “I think people need to try out the PTR first before commenting”

      What?! People actually seeing for themselves what they are talking about? Unthinkable! Leave reason at the login screen or prepare to be disappointed. 🙂

    • Totaly agree. I’ve been playing the PTR for a while now and in my opinion is more fun to play than ever before.

  41. While guaranteed legendaries after an extensive dry spell sounds very anti-Diablo at first… I’d imagine come Diablo XV, those still alive then might go ‘Ha! Remember how in D1 and D2 and D3 vanilla there was no guarantee of drops even after 1,000 hours? What were they thinking?’. So long as they don’t over- or under-tune this (which is more than likely), I think it’s a good change especially if trading remains neutered. If trading were to be allowed, then either this mechanic could be removed or made much less noticable. Or if they made two modes, one for self-found and one for traders, then the self-found mode could have the mechanic and the trading mode not (or a very mild effect). Imo to complain about this as a concept is to cling on to tradition with no critical thinking.

  42. Gamescon: they told us (finding at least 2 legendaries/hours back then) they hould increase the drop rates. Now they say the plan is 1 legendary/90 minutes? I could live with that (sounds reasonable, by the way) but… Goals are changing quickly, aren’t them?

    Legendary timer – so, if I clear an area, use tape on a key to prevent game of being idle, then go away for a few hours (i.e work) and go back to clear the next area, I’ll get a legendary? Sounds cool… It’s like using tape on PS1 controller to level up Vincent’s Death Penalty after Bone Village on FF7… :p (I’m sure people will do stuff like that…)

    I don’t feel the excitement of a golden shining tower on the ground, I just want to find the item in-game without googling it on AH. Kadala is weird, but since is the only way of target farming we have, I can live with that (My brain reward system is a little weird). However, I think most people think otherwise and this idea has a huge chance to flop – people are really attached to shinning towers…

    Drop rates are low and the timer sounds very exploitable, imo.

    • “Legendary timer – so, if I clear an area, use tape on a key to prevent game of being idle, then go away for a few hours (i.e work) and go back to clear the next area, I’ll get a legendary?”

      I’m sure the dev team accounted for this possibility. 🙂

      “Kadala is weird, but since is the only way of target farming we have”

      In case you didn’t know, we can actually target enemies for crafted Legendaries and Sets.

      • “In case you didn’t know, we can actually target enemies for crafted Legendaries and Sets.”

        I wasn’t clear, sorry. Just to clarify, I meant target farming stuff people usually want, like lvl 70 mempos – unless they moved mempos to “torment class gear kadala can’t generate”.

        I don’t have beta, so I have to rely on the few people testing crafting on Beta. So far, apart from a couple things you don’t usually see and cool transmogs, it seems to be nothing to be seem there. Nubtro did some check on crafted items and it seems the weapons roll lower damage than regular legendary weapons, but mystic can give you a higher damage roll on them (if I got it right). That means if you roll everything right (after “who knows how many” tries), it worths a damage reroll to fix the damage, if they don’t/didn’t fix this on beta.

        Source: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11206120572#4

        As for the “tape idea”, I’m really not sure if they accounted for that… (Or for the “run for torment” scenario Flux mentioned, after 2 hour without legendaries on master/expert.)

        • “I wasn’t clear, sorry. Just to clarify, I meant target farming stuff people usually want, like lvl 70 mempos”

          I think we’re on the same page here actually, we are simply approaching the issue from a different direction. You are right in that people don’t really want the crafted Legendaries at the moment (Sets could be an exception) and that there’s no specific way to look for the dropped ones.

          My first thought however as a solution for this wouldn’t necessarily be that dropped Legendaries like Mempo should also come from specific sources (although that would be absolutely fine as well), but to increase the allure of crafted ones.

  43. They should base the added drops on kills/elite kills/(boss kills) — an hour-based system is a haven for exploits, as mentioned.

  44. The clock doesn’t tick while you stand in town so there is no way of waiting it out. You need to actively kill things. That said, I don’t see this in action. I play in 2-4 hour intervals and in the last three days have had only two legendary drops. This is doing Rifts and Bounties exclusively. I do the two bonus zones and then a rift. I haven’t spent a ton of blood shards at Kadala, maybe 1000? Everything was garbage, maybe two rare upgrades in total. Outside of that, horadric caches which should be a nice reward for doing bounties end up being worse than an elite pack and 10 or so random mobs. I haven’t received a legendary from any of those either.

    In my opinion with all the best items being BoA I don’t see any issue with raising legendary drop rates significantly. Tackling the group play issue is a bit of a problem, You could reduce the drop rate in relation to solo play while still allowing trades, or keep it the same and remove trading.

    As far as bounties and horadric caches go, currently the rewards are XP, Blood Shards, and a Rift key. Which ok whatever, those things have some value. Except currently rifts aren’t that rewarding. So either buff rift rewards and reduce the frequency of rift keys in horadric caches, or make horadric caches more rewarding.

  45. Diablo 3 Farmville Edition: Sorry you must 2 hours for your fields to grow a legendary!

    HAHAHA legendaries on a timer. Every time Blizzard has a problem they take the top 5 most obvious solutions and throw them out to take the most convoluted approach that throws a hundred wrenches into the mix to complicate the game even further.

  46. Angel_of_Wrath hit the nail on the head. The reward should be a decent legendary every x min, not just a legendary. Legendaries due to the range of the primary stats too random to be considered good every time. So not only do you have a large number of legendaries, but you have a huge range of quality for said legendaries. What’s the probability of finding a high-end legendary that you need to complete a set? Extremely low given the random nature of drops. Take away trading with BOA and you’re SOL.

    • All D3’s systems are crap. D3 needs itemization, magic find affix, and loot pinatas ala D2. Load up on MF, run targeted bosses, see multiple sets/legendaries at just about if not every boss kill… which is like every 2 to 3 minutes.

      The fun and excitement is putting together a build than can load up on MF and seeing that MF work. Seeing lots of set/legendaries every few minutes is fun and exciting even when they are not the ones you want or already have. It’s feedback that yeah, your MF is working, that your next drop could be right around the corner, literally at the next boss in the next few minutes, that maybe next time Meph drops a Monarch shield it won’t be white, or blue or yellow, but legendary, a Stormshield.

      In D3, this doesn’t exist. Even if they made it so a legendary/set was guaranteed to drop once every 30 minutes, the system would still be lacking. 30 minutes in D2 with MF I can kill Meph 10 times and will see 30+ set/legendary items. Would any of them be anything I wanted or could use or trade away, probably not, but at the same time, maybe. And “maybe” is what makes you want to do one more run.

      • Ugh – I don’t know why Meph runs were so compelling, but looking back on it, I REALLY don’t want to be in a situation where it’s optimal to do that again. I think game mechanics in general (not just in Diablo) have come on so far since then, that it would be painfully boring very quickly.

        Even without that sort of boss run, there is not a reason to farm certain monsters – for the legendary crafting materials that they drop.

        • It’s compelling for the same reason pulling a lever on a slot machine at a casino is compelling. Every time you do it there is chance you can win.

          Personally, I wouldn’t just kill Meph repeatedly. I’d mix it up depending on what I wanted. If I wanted legendary ring/amulets I’d kill Andy; runes Countess, Travincal, Kurast; keys Countess, Summoner, Nila; TC 87 items, Pit, Baal, Pindle, Nila. Sometimes I just create a game kill them all then create a new game. What I chose to do just depended on my mood, how much I had, or what I wanted to find.

  47. I imagine that the vast majority of people posting on this thread (including myself) have no actual experience in the RoS beta yes?

    That aside, the slowly increasing drop chance after 2 hours seems to make sense. The people posting stuff like ‘OMG D3 Farmville’ etc are forgetting that before the two hour mark, the drop rate of legendaries is flat – it is not lower when you start playing than it is right before you hit 2 hours in, and it doesn’t suddenly jump up at that point. You can still start playing and (in theory) find a legendary the first drop from a monster – it’s just probability.

    I don’t know what I think about the average of 90 minutes really, that does seem rather long, but then again – that means that taking into account this ‘timer’ they have put in, we should be finding a legendary in less than 90 minutes more than half of the time. Thinking about it like that makes it seem reasonable.

    I’m going to reserve judgement on drop rates until the expansion has been out for a while and they’ve had chance to get a better set of data from a much larger number of players with a broad range of playing habits. Lets not forget how much patching D2 needed after release.

  48. The devs should be on a timer where after a certain amount of months the chance they’ll have a good idea increases.

  49. the timer’s gotta go. worst idea ever.

  50. yep RNG is RNG, that’s how it’s suppose to work. sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don’t. that’s the beauty of it. it will all even out in the end anyway – for every streak of bud luck, you’ll get lucky later.

    no need for artificial non-sense like this timer.

  51. After reading the comments on this site about this article, I understand what happened to Diablo 3: The developers let people post in forums about Diablo 3.

  52. The more I look at this, the more I start to wonder if items are the real issue. More so I think that because at some point in D3V’s infancy someone decided that items should define your character rather than stat points and individual builds, it created a paradox. On one hand, you cant make your build without the items, but on the other hand whats the point in having the build once your ideal gear set is completed.

    I don’t see how items could ever be in a good spot when theres no sense of identity to a character without them.

    • “someone decided that items should define your character rather than stat points and individual builds”

      The people who did this were the original creators of Diablo if you ask me. D1 had an almost completely linear character progression, you didn’t really had builds at all. You randomly got spells and slowly worked towards maxed Attributes. The real difference between characters was in the items they used. Items allowed a Sorcerer to play like a Warrior, or conversely a Warrior to play like a Sorcerer, not your spells or Attributes.

      In D2 Strength and Dexterity were prerequisites for items. I don’t know about you, but it was always the items that dictated how much STR and DEX my characters had, without exception. Vitality was the only stat I increased for it’s actual effect. In my opinion, Attributes were there only to support your items, not as a separate customization system.

      Skills could go both ways. You could decide which skills you wanted to use and then choose items based on that. However, knowing all the items in the game and basing your builds around them was the better way to do things. The value of some items often rivaled multiple levels worth of Attribute and skill points. Your gear had more effect on your character’s performance than anything else. If you take out Attributes and skill points the game remains largely the same. Take out items however and progression becomes an exercise in patience.

      • Disagree, although gear made your build actually do damage in D2, skills and their synergies are what dictated your play style. In this way, your progression was controlled by how much damage your build could do (partially controlled by gear depending on your class, which needed to be fixed for sure) but your skills and playstyle was entirely your choice.

        There needs to be a healthy balance like this where you have both skill and gear progression in order to take some of the heat off an item system that cant do two things at once (that being appease short term progress goals and still maintain long term playability).

  53. I’m surprised they actually posted in the MVP thread. Props to them for doing so. That said, it wasn’t a very good post. Revealing the timer was a very, very, bad idea. BUT it was the honest thing to do. Props to them for that, too. Shows Bobby isn’t micro managing everything over at Blizzard these days.

    Post sadly seems to confirm that the D3 devs have no idea about what sort of game D3 should be, and have no idea the kind of people their customers are. The second fact isn’t too surprising since at one point there were 12 million of them, hard to find a connection between that many people other than the game itself. Also, Bind on Account means legendaries should rain down from the sky like in F&F.

    • “Shows Bobby isn’t micro managing everything over at Blizzard these days.”

      Alternatively, and I know this may be hard to believe, it’s possible that as a CEO it’s not Bobby’s job to get into the nitty-gritty details of game development, like who may post what on the forums. A surprising possibility, I know, especially when one is paranoid without reason.

      “Post sadly seems to confirm that the D3 devs have no idea about what sort of game D3 should be”

      I think it would be more accurate to say that their views on what the game should be doesn’t align with yours.

      “and have no idea the kind of people their customers are.”

      Oh, reading the comment section on fan sites showed them a long time ago.

  54. I just read this (in)famous thread on us forum and i need to say those 2 MvP’s are relentless ;f This isnt good day for Travis ;F

  55. QUOTE

    I think he's suggesting that a different timer exists for returning players to reward them initially so they want to keep playing.  Kind of like how WoW offers you 1 week of free play time periodically to get you to return, Diablo gives out extra legendaries the first couple hours after you return.  
    
    I don't know if it's true, but I wouldn't be surprised.

    As someone who has left for days, weeks, or months at a time many times I’d say there is a “rested bonus” of sorts. I always get some good runs right after not playing a while and then it levels off after a while.

  56. I feel sad.
    It seems to me RoS will be such a rushed product, that no amount of patching will ever make it recover in the eyes of the community.
    What I don’t get most of all is this rushed release.
    It’s clear the on the 25.03.2014 a lot of people will be disappointed.
    It took Blizz a whole year to get D3V to a playable state, and RoS is far from being a product in an “almost finished state”.
    I would have waited until the end of 2014 and payed 60 bucks for a finished product.
    In fact I was so sure of the fact they will take their time to make it right, that I made a bet it wouldn’t be released until Q3-Q4 that is gonna cost me all my HC chars.
    Which I agreed to delete, if I lost. 2 paragon 30’s and other biting the dust because Blizz really wants to prove that it’s “all for the money, baby!”.
    I really love D3. I’ve put more hours into it than I’m comfortable to admit as an adult, and I strongly believe that it has the potential to become the best game I’ve ever played.
    But, as much as it pains me to say it, I lost hope in the dev team.
    I’ll buy the expansion as soon as it becomes available, I’m just not so sure I’m gonna enjoy it as I thought I would.
    Too bad, because ARPG’s are the only games I enjoy these days, and even though I enjoy PoE, I really thought D3X would be the game I’d play until I quit gaming for good.
    Damn..

  57. ~250 hours logged.
    9 legendaries to my name.
    0 sets.

    Pretty much anything is an improvement to that drop rate.

  58. TIL People wanted the game to be built around folks that only play 1 hr a day. Blizzard listened and now everyone cries foul. Fairly certain Blizzard game players are now the lowest common denominator.

  59. QUOTE

    No one's mentioned Hellgate London yet?  Haters have short memories or what? People were much angrier at Bill Roper and the other devs about that game than I've ever seen anyone about D3. Yet.

    I did :wave: Back on page 4. Since no one else mentioned it I guess nobody here played it.

    I even managed to finish the game :coffee:.

  60. So lets face the truth, that D3V and obviously RoS is the most unrewarding game in entire ARPG history. Compared to D2,this game is so dead in terms of fun and item drops. It’s a great design to run like an idiot for hours, and continue to kill monsters and bosses who drops nothing. This is the definition of fun for Blizz guys. And most of the legs suck anyway, so the only option for a normal person like me, and many others like Kunzaito is quit.
    I can’t play this game for more than 2 hours,it’s so boring. I’m sure, if I start D2 now, I can make 8/10 hours session without any problem. So good luck with your precious game, but it doesn’t work for me.

  61. QUOTE

    I did :wave: Back on page 4. Since no one else mentioned it I guess nobody here played it.
    
    I even managed to finish the game :coffee:.

    I always wanted to play Hellgate London. I think I tried demo for few minutes but it probably worked poorly on my old PC. Can’t remember anything about that experience. And I had really high hopes for that game 🙁

    So yes, nobody played it.

  62. A timer to “patch up” bad RNG seems like a poor decision. If it truly is a matter of RNG and not bugs, then it should even out over time. In short periods, crafting legendaries will make up for any bad luck. The issue is that crafting only gives a chance of legendary, so you could easily have such bad luck that you still don’t see any legendaries.

    Now adding a timer works, but it cheapens the whole farming process. I don’t want to play a game watching a bar fill up towards the 2 hour mark where I can expect nothing to drop until then; I want to both be and FEEL random. Hopefully it doesn’t end up feeling that way.

    If you want a good comparison, play Marvel Heroes. They have a system where shards drop every ~8 minutes or something, which are the currency for unlocking new characters. It makes the first 7 minutes of every 8 minute subsession feel really bad.

    I really wish they’d just add a ladder to the game and increase the drop rate of legendaries to a higher level. I haven’t experienced the drop rates personally, and I’ll be fine with 1 drop per 2 hours considering how much better than is than my vanilla experiences, but I was really looking forward to a lootfest.

    • 1 Legendary per hours is the low-end at the moment in my experience. Torment even at the first level adds 250% to that, so when you can play there efficiently (which doesn’t require full set of Legendaries) things really start to pick up.

  63. Can people seriously not read? The timer does NOT prevent a legendary from dropping until the time limit. It does NOT even guarantee there’ll be a drop at a certain time, only that the CHANCE will start to increase after a certain time. And it’s clearly been stated that it’s set for well after the average expected random drop time for people who run into a loooong stretch of bad RNG.

    Seriously, would these “must be random!” people complain if it was revealed that the random dungeons have a *shock! horror!* maximum size to prevent rare cases when a dungeon meant to take 10-20 minutes to clear was big enough to take hours?

    And people complain that Blizzard doesn’t explain enough about the game mechanics…

  64. FONT

    
    
    Players (uber gamers) are always complaining about the calibration of item drops.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Why not reward these players and create a greater incentive for them play more.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Creating an ultra-high tier weapon/gear called  -  Artifact of God
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Three items are awarded every 3 months
    
    
    one item to the player with the highest experience/levels
    
    
    one item to the player with the most kills
    
    
    one weapon - random give away 
    
    					
    					
    															
    					
    				
  65. Honestly i like where the drop rate is at, played the ptr for a few hours tonight and got 2 legs, one was a upgrade, the other wasen’t good for my class for my class. Personally i dont mind a decrease in the amount of legendary drops from diablo 2 as after awhile anyways you start to see the same items over and over and the really rare stuff becomes your motivation for playing. No one gets excited in D2 when a green breat playe drops for obvious reasons.

    Your motivation to keep playing is only as good as the drops you are trying to get, and i think there on the right track, but i really cant be sure as im not in the beta and i dont really see end game gear except whats posted in the chat. Though it seems some legendaries are sorta useless as people have said here, and thats a issue in the end game.

    They need to make almost all legs at least semi-useful whats the point of it being in the game if its only purpose is to sacrifice it for crafting mats? Also, if there all at least somewhat good then it makes it a more important, and harder decision to salvage them for mats.

    Also why not just take blue and white items out in the end game at this point and just drop mats, why make us pick them up if there always going to be junk? Would save us from running back to town and make those drops seem more valuable then they are right now. Rares should instead be called something else because theres nothing rare about them and its a crap shoot as to what rolls on them right now.

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