One life to live: Playing well with others


Since 1.08 came out I’ve spent the better part of it in public games. As my character has progressed I’ve moved into higherDiabloWiki Monster Power levels and new challenges. I’ve found them to be a great way to cruise through levels and meet new people. However, there is still a risk in the people that you meet. Not that they’re out to kill you but leech off of your expertise.

Screen Shot 2013-07-19 at 1.44.50 PM

I was in a game last night on Mp4, when I noticed things were going slower than ideal. After looking over two of the other players gear I saw their dps was in the abysmal range. One Witch Doctor was pulling 8k dps, the other (a wizard) was doing 40k. Now I don’t find myself to be an elitist. I am happy to play with everyone, but the advantage to a multiplayer game is that you can kill faster than solo. The detriment for myself is not their leeching but that if I were to need help they wouldn’t be able to provide it. Effectively dooming me to die. Take for example if I’m in a precarious situation: I’m flailing away at a pack of monsters when we snag two champion packs. We’re walled in with arcane beams shooting around and every bit of dps is going to be needed to get them down before someone dies. That 8k dps is 90k short of what could make that easy for the group. Now each person is risking more so someone can do less. That’s not to say there aren’t great support characters who can tank or freeze up monsters with low dps, however those players are few and far between, and by and large those with such low dps are merely there to leech.

With the way our economy is going is there any reason to have such low dps to begin with? In particular is there any reason to have such low dps in the higher difficulties? It’s easy to pick up a few things off the DiabloWikiAuction House under a million or to craft your own gear to get you up to snuff. Maybe that comes off as snobbish and elitist but I don’t see why you would venture into anything in Hardcore that you are not prepared for. If I could not clear a run by myself solo I would not do it with a group. Sadly I don’t think everyone holds to that ideology.

Now at the release of DiabloWiki1.08 this wasn’t as much of an issue since most people were not yet entering into the fray of Hardcore. Many people were scared of the death playing with strangers could bring. Now that most have discovered that there is safety in numbers they have been pushing themselves higher than what they should go. This is leading to some players carrying others.

The biggest problem is not with their leeching it is how hard it is to avoid. With public games as they are now if you choose to leave a game you will quickly find yourself back in it. The pool of players is still relatively small in hardcore public games and you frequently run into the same people. This is great for meeting like-minded players but can be frustrating when you see that you will need to carry two others.

Take for instance the other night. I encountered that same WD from the screen shot above several times that day. Each time I would leave and try to find a new game. After several frustrating attempts we wound up in a party again. The group was doing well enough but the WD mainly hung back, having had enough I decided to mention her dps in chat to initiate a vote kick. She attempted to explain her dps was low because she was using mass hypnosis. After that she ported to the DiabloWikiFields of Misery as the rest of the group was in town. In a matter of seconds she was dead due to a large pack nearby while typing to us to “GO”. I felt bad that she died and lost her character but in the end she came unprepared and when there wasn’t anyone there to kill things for her she couldn’t and died.

Now where do we go from here? I don’t want to advocate a rigorous gear check system like WoW has, but I also don’t want to inspect each player as they come into the game either. Sure there could be a benchmark and we could say x dps for mp1 and y dps for mp5 but the easiest benchmark is to see if you can do it alone. Chances are if you can you’re fine and if you can’t it’s time to go down a notch.

How has leeching affected you? Is it a prevalent problem or minor nuisance?

One Life to Live covers the Hardcore play and life style in the Diablo community. It is written by Xanth and published weekly. Post your comments below, Follow me on Twitter @HCXanth or contact the author directly. For all the archived news about Diablo 3 hardcore check our Archives!

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  1. Defo noticed big clear speeds dispersion with different parties. It was never so bad that i’d go and check other ppl’s DPS tho.
    If anyones looking for ppl to play with, feel free to add me http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/butch-1749/hero/27738483

  2. I enjoy your One Life to Live entries as it echoes a lot of us HC players sentiments to a wider audience.

    I’ve seen many low paragons venture to mp4 and even mp5 games. When they die or have a close-close, its all about the excitement and the learning process of playing HC.

    One of the most annoying experiences are the people who purposely still wear cain’s set for the bonus xp and just ‘pretend’ they helping the group.

    So ‘Yes’, I always inspect players who look fishy.

    The best way I’ve found to go ‘around’ the loopholes of cleared or bad games is to create a new game yourself. Act 1 typically fills up fast. I’ve been loving Act 2 myself because I feel Act 1 runs feel so short.

  3. We got into this a bit during the podcast, so it’s been on my mind. I’m not sure there is an optimal solution, but I thought of a couple of options.

    1) As Xanth alludes to, set DPS ranges that you have to hit in order to join public games at certain MP levels. This would have to be dynamic since it would change over time, so maybe calculate a median DPS for all public games at MP3 the previous month and then adjust it down 10 – 20%. This would be confusing to new players, and as Flux mentioned on the podcast, it is highly unlikely Blizzard would put something like this in place.

    2) Allow the game’s creator to set the minimum and maximum DPS allowed. This would help on both ends: Xanth could do his 100K+ DPS farming runs on MP4 without worrying about 8k MF witch doctors trailing along. And my slow-poke barb could exclude the 100K characters from MP1 so I could feel like I was actually contributing on a run and not just picking up gold and ToS after the rest of the group blew things up. Since it doesn’t count as a “named game” maybe Blizzard would actually consider something like this once the expansion ships. (Not holding my breath.)

  4. You can gear a character to do MP4 under 1 million? Damn.. I should of seeked your help when I was playing D3 HC haha I would spend 300-400 million to get 1 of my barbs to do mp3-4… Guess I am an idiot buying IK’s Blacks, Soj’s and EF’s..

    -Zero

    • I think he meant 1 million each slot-so 3 or 4 million in total. As a new HC’er, I can confirm that is possible since I’ve done a few (scary) key runs on MP4. But that puts me at only 40K DPS, so I wouldn’t be comfortable going into a public game at that MP. I’m still running MP2 for XP/item farming.

  5. First off, the idea of joining a game that’s farther than you are in the quest line needs to be blocked. The ‘any act any quest’ function (or ‘any quest’ function) are awesome, keep those (in fact I’d like to see them work at levels prior to level 60) but block those from allowing you to join a game that is farther in progress than your character has unlocked. Also don’t allow joining a friend’s game if that game is farther than your character has unlocked as well. There shouldn’t be a way to ‘skip’ content.

    Then, apply that rule to Monster Power as well. Basically, each level of Monster Power has its own quest progress. If you do a quest in monster power 4 but then switch to MP 5, you have to start over again at Act 1 Fallen Star.

    I think these changes would probably be of some help, but to REALLY keep the lowbies out of higher MP games, one last change would need to be made. Basically, that you’d have to complete 0 before you could turn on 1, must complete 1 before you can turn on 2, etc.

    If you’re playing MP4, especially hardcore, then you’re only playing with people who have lived through inferno 4 times, on MP 0, 1, 2, and 3, all four acts.

    You’d also see act boss killing a lot more because people would have to in order to get to the next act and therefore to the next MP level. Allowing people to skip these is a major reason why they don’t get killed much.

    I think that system would work better, but if you wanted to be moderately forgiving, you could have MP1 unlock at Paragon level 10, MP2 at 20, MP3 at 30, etc. You could unlock them ‘early’ by completing the game, or just farm until you’ve leveled enough to continue.

    • This is actually how I play. Every ten levels I kill diablo and up the mp one notch. Bothers me ppl are more interested in safety therm a challenge.

      It’s fun and highly suggested. Who cares if my dh is a guaranteed death soon after she makes level p40 it will be fun trying your damnest not to get oneshot

  6. I’ve found it to be a very minor inconvenience. I usually run mp4-5 in groups (hardcore of course), which is the same MP I solo. I’ve found that there aren’t that many people not pulling their weight. Sure, some do a lot more DPS than others, but I haven’t run into that many true leeches like an 8k DPS WD. When I do run across them in pubs, it’s usually been in a situation where I’m with at least one other guy who is pulling his weight, and it’s not much of a problem. Given the multiplayer bonuses, I’m willing to deal with it.

    I do sometimes run higher MPs, but only with buddies and their friends, so we don’t often find ourselves with someone who is too severely undergeared, and if we do, it’s not a problem to knock the MP down a notch or two to accommodate.

    As a side note, I do have one of those low DPS, crowd control characters. My CM wiz only does 50kish unbuffed DPS, but he locks the packs down well enough!

  7. No offence, bit you sound a bit snobish and asking Blizz to implement some kind of system to block low DPS players is stupid as some people like to push the limit and see how they will manage. Plus there is that thing called ‘Vote kick’. I am on your side Xanth on the issue of creating your games and adding this block system just keeps defragmenting the playerbase jast as the tag system.

  8. P.S.(1) I just want to add that the playerbase is filled with p$&@ies, as some players want blizz to move Shen closer to the portal cause the distance is soo long (sarcasm),which is ludicrous as Act 1 has the most decent layout.
    (2)HC are not HC anymore as on so many podcast you guys are complaining about the 1-60 journey because \the real game starts at 60\. Funny as the ride to 60 is a bit tedious but atleast there is a sense of chalange as you still don’t have the cookie-cutter items waiting for you on the lvl 60 stop. And everyone is complaining about every little inconvenience. (3) OK, so you buy all your gear on the AH then what? why do you play? To reach a P100 or reach the billion mark? I mean if you can beat MP10 Act4 why do you play it just seems like a job?This is a question for everyone, luckily I havent reached that point and i am still enjoying the game. End of rant.

    • there is nothing elitist about his perspective lol…it’s laughable if you have 8k dps in mp4 lol 50k is suitable for mp2 and considered strong in mp1…why would you want leeches going for drops and exp who can’t even help save your life? lol

    • It seems that (3) is the reason why no end game. To succeed, you must visit the AH. But once you’ve filled one gear slot, why stop and not fill the rest? Finally, you end geared with not much hope to improve your items.

    • Good luck at beating A4 MP10 in Hardcore, let me know when you’ve succeeded ^^

  9. When I played WoW: Burning Crusade, I used to play a healer. I would log in and recruit for 5 man heroic slabs. I would specifically request for a bear tank / moonkins / enhancement shaman / etc., because I knew they were NOT the most efficient specs. I knew they were left out. I wanted them to have fun, too. And boy, were they happy to be invited. It was great fun!

    Of course now you can’t even do something like that in WoW with dungeon finder these days.

    The matchmaking system would probably have to add a DPS filter to give Xanth what he wants. Might have to wait a few years for that tho.

    WoW solved this issue by putting minimum ilvl requirements to enter high-level dungeons and raids. What WoW solved a few years ago goes unlearned in D3, and the designers face having to reinvent the wheel.

  10. If you want your head to SPIN with regards to playing Blizzard games and people getting carried, there is a video of a guy who rolled a rogue in PandaPak.

    His mission was to join public games with a fresh max level rogue, do ZERO damage, and in fact attempt to take as much damage as possible, and get carried from NO gear to geared up in 5 mans, all the way to the final raid boss, Lei Shen. He successfully accomplished it in this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GFWh9aY4pas#!

  11. For a while I tried to play self-found or ironborn mode, while doing public games sometimes. It’s very popular right now, and people are talking about it all over the forums.
    Even though I was lucky with the drops (still have some lvl 20-30 legendaries worth over 1m each), when it comes to dps you are limited by the weapons available, especially after lvl 42, when most people use a -lvl req weapon at 250+ dps (I have a soketed 650+ dps one for example) while NM offers you 80-100 dps.

    It is possible you encounter such Ironborners who are leeching despite their best efforts. This is where named games, such as D2 had would have made a great difference, or a different realm without AH (which I realize would mostly be a bad idea, with the HC community as thin as it is).

    I personally love public games for various reasons. But even when I did them on SC, I would go mp1-3 at most, so that I would be immune to leeches. If you want performance farming, play solo or with friends.

  12. Interesting topix Xanth. With my 2nd monk I focussed on EHP first so I could play higher MP’s quickly since I believe it yields me more EXP and loot for my build.

    I started out with 48k DPS @ MP3 and quickly switched to MP4 with currently 53-55k DPS depending on setup (excl. 6% elite bonus dmg). Now that might seem low for MP4, but if I solo it I rip through. High IAS means lots of cyclones and spirit, being able to spam overawe every 3 seconds is 48% extra damage.

    95% of the games I’m much appreciated because I kill quite a bit, I’m always in front of the group with TR/FoT and keep overawe 48% up almost all the time. However, I’ve been kicked twice for my “low” DPS. I’m quite sure my monk with 55k DPS outputs the same damage individually as a 80k barb, I’ve tested killing monsters with Oompie some time ago, each having a go individually.

    So what does sheet DPS tell us? It does unfortunately not show eDPS (SOJ anyone?).

    Bottom line I agree with you though, if people are not contributing well it is annoying. I try to pay attention if they activate their mantra’s, warcries etc the right way, because it is indeed NOT nice if you’re fighting a tough pack and the coplayers screw up or all run away…

    PS I do not understand why some people play very low MP in pubs, I’ve seen 150+ DPS in MP1, that’s more than overkill if you ask me.

  13. QUOTE

    She attempted to explain her dps was low because she was  using mass hypnosis. After that she ported to the 
    http://diablo.incgamers.com/images/wiki_icon.png
    
    
    Fields of Misery
      as the rest of the group was in town. In a matter of seconds she was  dead due to a large pack nearby while typing to us to "GO". 
    
    As I said on the podcast, "problem solved!" (We talked about 
    this very issue on the last podcast
    , so if you want to hear Xanth's verbal version of this article, check it out.)
    
    
    
    
    For a while I tried to play self-found or ironborn mode, while doing public games sometimes. It is possible you encounter such Ironborners who are leeching despite their best efforts. This is where named games, such as D2 had would have made a great difference, or a different realm without AH (which I realize would mostly be a bad idea, with the HC community as thin as it is).

    This is exactly why Ironborn needs official support and it's own ecology, akin to Hardcore. So you could play in games with other self found people and it would be even and equal and more fun. Now it's janky; you're not contributing a decent amount, plus you're subverting the purpose of Ironborn by tagging along while others do 90% of your killing for you.

  14. An ironborn mode should have higher drop rate also since it is not polluted by the AH.

  15. QUOTE=koko;8543605]It seems that (3) is the reason why no end game. To succeed, you must visit the AH. But once you’ve filled one gear slot, why stop and not fill the rest? Finally, you end geared with not much hope to improve your items.[/QUOTE]

    That seems inevitable in any gear-oriented game.

    I play self found/GAH, and at some point you’re
    I check others’ DPS when I enter a public game. I’m usually playing MP7 now (softcore) and just don’t have the patience to have a bunch of 80K DPS players tagging along. The fun factor is low.

    OTOH, when you get four strong players of roughly equal levels of damage potential, the game rocks and you don’t get players dropping in and out.

    It seems that (3) is the reason why no end game. To succeed, you must visit the AH. But once you've filled one gear slot, why stop and not fill the rest? Finally, you end geared with not much hope to improve your items.

    That seems inevitable in any gear-oriented game.

    I play self found/GAH, and at some point you’re just very well-geared (happens faster for those who can buy and sell well).

    With the RMAH, the sky’s probably the limit, but then there’s not much skill in using a credit card to gear up.

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