Magic Find and Gold Find Now Shared Through the Party

Thanks to Ugm for letting us know about some surprising news from the official Polish forums. A fan asked about sharing MF in parties, and got a reply from CM Wuluxar. In Polish, of course, but the translation is clear enough:

Our developers have decided that bonuses + Magic Find, Gold Find + and + XP but will work differently for groups of players. These bonuses will be equal for each character in the group and depending on the sum of bonuses for all players.

The group consists of four players. In total, their stats are 50% MF, +20% GF and 10% XP, each of these players will have a 12.5% MF, 5% and 2.5% GF XP being in such a group.

Playing with a companion, available for rent, as at present receive 20% bonus to the statistics of type ‘adventure’ with a bonus companion visible on the panel.

That last bit of garbled translation was clarified by a Blue post today.

The amount displayed is your share of the bonus. You get 20% of your follower’s Magic Find, Gold Find, and + to XP. Currently, Magic Find, Gold Find, and +XP bonuses are averaged across the entire group.

This news prompts numerous thoughts and theories, and I’m definitely thinking we need a vote on it to measure the overall impact. A few different quick reactions:

1) It’s another design decision that waters down the game for the benefit of less-skilled players. Now any noob can get MF and +exp benefits from skilled players with better gear, simply by being in the same game. Does this give skilled players *another* reason to play solo in D3?

2) It’s an inevitable “fix” required by D3’s individual item drops, which would have rewarded back row MF leeches who didn’t pull their weight in games.

3) This is great for friends playing in parties. If you go all MF and ranged support while staying in the back, while your friend tanks and takes all the risks (especially if you’re playing DiabloWikiHardcore), you benefit from his killing speed, and he enjoys your MF.

Speaking as someone who has always enjoyed MF and did a lot to promote it with a number of huge strategy guides in the early days of D2, I’m curious to hear feedback on the change — especially from MF haters.


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  1. one killer
    rest mf watchers

    • I doubt a single person will ever be able to solo inferno with a 4 player group, but I guess we’ll find out… Either way, at least the person doing all the killing gets as much a benefit from MF as the ‘watchers’ do.

      • But what of the skilled player with great gear who does a fair share of killing and yet sees his MF bonuses going to others? Which is why my first thought on this was another noob-friendly feature change that punishes expertise. Or pushes expert players to play solo or only with other expert friends.

        On the other hand, the individual item drops system in D3 almost requires this, as there has to be some nerfing to the loot given to a back row leech in MF gear.

        I’ll likely run a vote on this topic, as I’m genuinely curious how the community at large will greet the feature change.

        • By “great gear” do you mean gear that has very little MF on it? Because that’s what you imply. People complaining have been saying they don’t want team members with heavy MF leeching kills from players with better more damage centric gear.

          This equalizes the playing field for all players. 

          • I define “great gear” as equipment that gives you good killing power +  MF. That’s the goal of the game, after all. To kill quickly and earn big profits while doing it.

          • I pretty much use around 50-100 Mf myself on inferno, without gimping my main stats in any way. I define this good gear.
            So far around 75% of the public games i join, i’ve had more Mf than all other players combined, and still i’m doing the tanking and by the looks i am dealing the most DPS too. I See other 3 running from a single mob from pack while im soloing the other 3.. blizzard really needs to do something, or will you force “good” players to play solo. Maybe someone wants to boost all noobs in the game but not me. Not at least 75% on time i join public game. Person with highest MF should at least end up with bigger chance to find magic than people with absolutely nothing. Make it 50% less for people who have little or no MF but do something.

        • This change isn’t really a surprise. I have been saying this since the day Blizzard said MF is not shared. 
          There will be leeches out there that dress in full MF gear and join game siting there and watch loot drop.
          Now people actually work together in a CO-OP game. 

        • I personally don’t know what to think about this atm….
          Ultimately it is much better than the old system. I don’t see a bunch of players trying to stack MF as high as possible, gimping themselves, just to leech item drops if they’ll only benefit from a 1/4th of their total MF.
          I think it makes more sense for everyone to stack high damage / defensive stats (HC) with some GF / MF in the mix. Faster killing with this system will most likely = more results.
          Atm, I disagree with this being more casual. If anything, I feel a little bit more comfortable joining a public game now. Hopefully we get a good /kick option for the afk’ers and whatever leechers that we encounter… Overall, this is a good change IMO 😉

        • The “skilled player with the great gear who does a fair share of killing” is already seeing a lot of his or her benefits – higher proportional damage output – going to other players. If everyone else in the group has worse gear than they do, they’d already be better off playing solo where their kill time will be faster anyway.

          Ultimately I don’t think this change will matter much to the truly elite players out there, because more likely than not they won’t be playing in random groups to begin with – they’ll be playing with friends who are also skilled players with decent gear. It punishes people who would otherwise come in and leech MF – having other people do all of the killing for them – as you note in point number two of your original post.

          In any case it’s better than Diablo 2’s system.

        • Flux, I think you might be missing the main point (no insult intended). The system before the change gave a clear incentive to any skilled, knowledgeable and rational player to max mf at any cost to optimize personal gain. This is quite likely to lead to a degradation of the whole coop environment. It is a clear case of what is referred to as “Tragedy of the Commons”, i.e. the common resource (kill speed) is depleted for the sake of individual gain (mf). The system, as it stands now, does have all the problems of random coop play, but at least it does not provide that sort of moral hazard. 

    • No matter what way you look at it, player-based MF creates barriers between players!
      This is the happiest news I’ve received from Blizzard in a LONG time. 

    • That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read.

    • that would not make sense, because the foe needs to die to drop something ^^

  2. So they decided to equalize the benefit of MF? This might actually promote people having viable gear versus ultra high MF gear while in a group because they’ll only have 1/4 the benefit.

    If high end players even get close to 100% viable MF you’re looking at no difference in terms of MF. This just means that you can’t go into a group with zero MF and be left out (especially if you’re doing most of the damage).     

  3. I like that change. I hate wearing MF gear so it’s nice to benefit from others.
    Also makes playing in a group of 4 more appealing to me. 

    • Exactly – if you don’t wear any MF gear whatsoever you still get the benefit of MF, because you will be doing more damage than your teammates who have MF.

      • what makes you think your teammates will have magic find?

        • He means if they hypothetically have magic find. If they don’t have MF, then they’re probably doing more damage instead, which is also a benefit through a faster kill rate.

    • It makes me wonder how much mf we will have in the late game. As it is in the beta, you would be hard pressed to not have any mf or gf gear, and if you are trying to get it, then it can add up to fairly substantial amounts even early on.

      • Ya my demon hunter in beta has 110 percent MF right now 😮

        • AKA 27.5% in a MP game.

          • Flux that is if everyone else has zero magic find, this is highly unlikely unless you gimped your DPS and if that is the case it likely that they will be doing far more of the killing any way.
            It more likely that everyone will have MF etc between X & Y% and if you go above Y you kill speed will suffer and you are now a MF leech.

  4. I think it’s dumb to hurt a high MF of one player…but then again, I’m thinking of it like D2.  Where I would do solo MF runs, it might make more sense to have a larger party since you have your own drops.  So I don’t know what I think.
    Time will tell.

  5. Seems good; many people complained that a full MF geared char could leech gear in public games without dealing much damage. With this change the other players get at least a benefit from MF chars.

    • This is like the opposite – people with viable gear are ‘leeching’ MF off of players with less viable higher MF gear.

      • Viable gear player contribute by doing damage, while MF gear player contribute MF.
        So whats the problem?
        It used to be viable gear player do the damage, while MF player get more loot.

        • This ^
          Sums up my opinions completely. The old system only gave MF players an advantage. Now the whole team does. Possibly the MF leechers have a disadvantage now, but that’s a good thing. I think their should be more incentive to have strong effective builds, and this might do the trick.
          As long as their is good itemization, there will be stats on certain gear that still gives decent MF, without the compensation of loosing power. Kind of like how the Shako is in D2 – Solid MF and with +skills / dmg reduction.

          • I wish I could give you guys x10 thumbs up. I am so glad to see 80% of the community is in favor of this change, now there’s NO way it will get changed 😀

  6. I’m not nuts about MF; I’d rather it were some inborn skill on a character that can be developed rather than affix, but I’ll take this over individualized MF scores. 

    I don’t think this is “noob friendly” but the alternative would result in everyone playing late game solo, fighting about what other people have equipped, and accusations of being carried. 

    I also want to see a MF soft cap to keep everyone from going MF>>all.  

    In the end, it’s a better system than individualized MF. 

  7. Hrm…  I can see the complaints, but the more I think about it, they really have to do this.  Think about pickup groups: accusations of “you’re just using shitty MF gear” would be flying.  Anyone wearing any sort of MF/GF would be seen – and, hell, would indeed be – leeching off the rest of the party.

    • See, as a player who always went for high MF and still had a good killing speed (in HC), I see it exactly the opposite.  Why would I want to play with others now, if my MF is getting watered down and given to them? In D2, without shared MF, I don’t care if other players suck and/or have lame gear; it doesn’t affect my drops. (Unless they are ninjas.) .

      Now I’ll want to make sure everyone in a game also has MF, or else is really optimized to slaughter, to make up for their drain on my item drops with superior killing power.

      • Well, when you consider that people without MF gear will likely deal more damage than you and be better suited towards survival, it might actually benefit you to be in a game with players who have no MF.

      • Your complaint is valid, but I don’t like being in a group unless I feel like I’m contributing, and this makes that smoother. If I’m feeling like the people I’m playing with don’t deserve the benefit of my gear bonuses, then this is a sign of deeper problems in the prospects for that group being fun to play with the first place.

      • They should juste check for the higher MF% in the group, and give the same bonus to each player in the group.

        For exemple, if player A has 150% MF, player B 50%, player C 20% and player D 100%, everyone in the group should have 150% MF.

        This way, everyone is happy: no more leechers, and players with good gear don’t have to play solo.    

        • But then that defeats the purpose of more than one person ever having any MF gear on, it’s not a great solution in my opinion.

          So I have 98% MF and my teammate has 100% MF, so I’m supposed to be punished for having 2% lower MF? That sounds lame.  

      • It all really comes down to the benefits of being in a group (as in the faster killing speed) outweighing having your mf given out to the rest of the group. If they don’t balance out (and I wouldn’t be surprised of some math-savvy D3 players figure out the ratio someday) then you could very well see a huge skewing to solo or group play depending on which is most efficient.

      • Flux, I feel like you are still looking at this from a D2 perspective. A game where you had 8 players, you could go on auto pilot and still one shot a screen full of enemies with little effort. Not too mention there is the possibility of Ninjas like you said.
        Diablo 3 now, we got 4 players max, you have to work *together* especially in Inferno, and you have your own loot drops. I think this changes things up quite a bit. But yeah, if their gear is incredibly bad and they aren’t really bringing anything to the table, it’s time to kick them from the game, or at the very least make a party with the 2-3 other decent players in your group and create a new game.
        I think there is possible negative side effects from this system, but I truly feel the previous system could’ve been much much worse and very abusive.

        • I’m not sure I by this.  When 1.10 was in beta they said it would not be possible for a person to solo hell in an eight player game, a week or two later everyone was doing it.

          With have zero real feel of what inferno is like I doubt it is nearly as hard as people are making it out ot to be.  It isn’t going to be like 1.07 challenge by any means I imagine, and people have managed to complete that.

          With four people, and more people owning computers and on the internet, I highly doubt that many players will be in a full party of three other random people.  This is shaping up to be a nice little “squad” sized MP game.     

      • Everyone who is against this change needs to consider this post:
        Your logic is flawed in my opinion. I think your memory of Diablo 2 has jaded your view of Diablo 3.
        You said you were “high MF and still had a good killing speed”
        This was viable in Diablo 2, because all mobs in Diablo 2 dropped in only a few hits. The game did not account for everyone having elite items (due to botting/hacking), so you could get ALL the elite items, stack MF, and still drop mobs very quickly. From what we know about Diablo 3, this will not be the case. Even with premium DPS gear, the game is still going to be challenging. You will need all the DPS gear you can get. (Again, from what we know about Inferno. “You will die… we promise”, etc..)

        To take away the much needed killing power from the party so YOU and ONLY YOU can have better drops is ABSOLUTELY BOGUS. Again, realize that from what we know, mobs will not fall like rain with single blows in Inferno. Please re-think. 🙂 

  8. It seems straightforwardly fair, to me. It protects people from abusively employing group members as bodyguards. It gives players another dimension with which to contribute.

  9. I was excited but got less so when I realized each player gets an averaged amount. I know it’s too much to ask that everyone benefit from the total sum, but perhaps: each player gets 100% of the total in 2 player game, each player gets 50% of the total in 3 player game, each player gets 33% of the total in 4 player game, Would have been fantastic.  

    • Keep in mind blizz is trying to tune the game so that more players = significantly faster killing. So if everyone in the group has 100% mf, the fact that everyone is killing monsters faster than they would solo probably does mean that people will be seeing a significant increase in drops by playing together. I think the current situation is more like what you described than you think

  10. At first I thought this would lead to MFers playing solo only. But then I gave this change a second thought and now I think that they’ve just made yet another role for character which whole team benefits from.

  11. Nice! That one was an issue for me. Very good decision. Teamplay is key.

  12. the system seems good to avoid that somebody just leech the dropps full mfed while party does the work
    this way at least they have the same loots
    but also means that i’ll equip mf solo or with close friends since i’m going for hardcore only
    (good joke btw with that ‘also play softcore besides hardcore’ blizzard-fags :lol:)

  13. This was the easiest thing in the world to see coming. MF being individual would completely ruin grouping with randoms. So many people would just throw on tons of MF gear and not do any damage and reap the drops of other people’s killing. If grouping with randoms was going to be a popular and viable choice, this had to happen. Can’t believe this wasn’t announced earlier.

    To flux’s point: If you really think you do have the ultimate MF + DPS build then sure, you should probably be mfing alone. But I bet if this change didn’t happen you would run in to a lot of people who think their mf set up can still do damage when they’re actually completely gimping themselves. How frustrating would that be?

  14. I guess this means no more “EVERYONE STOP ATTACKING LET THE MF CHAR LAST HIT111”

    Now people with heavy mf can’t leach. People with heavy mf equip benefit from people that just go FULL DMG because of the kill speed. This change makes it equal I guess because most of the time pub people wont share drops from the stuff you killed.

    • That was already off the table with the segregated loot per player where it didn’t matter who killed the monster last since you got the loot for that player according to your MF calculation, not the one that kills. At least that’s what I understood from past topics on this subject.

    • Ok, if a group member has everyone stop attacking so the MF char gets the last hit, how is that leeching, exactly? It isn’t.

  15. This really isn’t a team game though.

    Since when do we have to balance our groups in Diablo?

    Unless they prove us otherwise or make this similar to WoW, Diablo is about my character, not about my group.

    • I would argue that D2 can be a team game and if anything these changes foster teamwork in a positive manner. These changes make teamwork matter a bit more.

      So if you didn’t think it was a team game before, it is now. 

    • According to Blizzard it is a team game. They are always talking about it being “a co-op game with a solo play option” and such…

  16. This essentially means that if we may have Player 1 with 100 MF, and Player 2 with 0 MF, when they team up, Player 1 actually loses 50 MF, while Player 2 gains 50 MF.

    If the chance to find good items does not increase considerably by playing in a team, players with viable (read, which allows a reasonable play speed) MF gear will prefer to play solo. Either this or D3 will now have team formation informal rules based on MF bonuses on gear, similar to how in WoW certain raids require a certain item level and achievements. I wouldn’t be surprised if some people get kicked for lowering the average MF while not contributing enough to damage.

    • Lets assume as you said, you have 100mf, and another player has 0.
      In this case yes, you’d both have 50mf.
      But consider the probability that the one with 0 mf not only kills as well, but actually faster than you do, because he has not lessened his killing power one bit for extra MF

      In this sense, the two of you together are killing at LEAST twice as fast as you were before(but most probably more). In this sense, the WORST case scenario is that you have no change in drops, and the best case scenario is that you have improved drops. There is no reason to play solo, especially if you can trust that your allies are actually good at playing.

      another case:

      You have 100mf, and your ally has 100 mf. Now you both have 100 mf. Again, we’re making the leap(just for arguments sake) that equal mf is equal power. In this case where you both have the same MF, and the same power, so you are killing double the speed, thus getting significantly more drops.

      Suppose a caveat, is that the monsters do get stronger with more players, but i doubt it will be the case that 2 players would in any way have less total killing speed than 1. 

  17. Now some casual can come along now, join a group and get a drop that might be worth $200.00 without him even putting in the same effort as everyone else but it does  grouping so that you can better your chances at better gear. Mixed feelings on this.

    • This is a lot better than the opposite: People just stacking MF, doing nothing, and getting way better loot than the people doing the killing.  It has its own problems but, it’s hard to disagree that it isn’t better than the alternative. 

    • Well if someone is not contributing then that is your group’s responsibility to identify who that is and get rid of them…

      • Yeah, this seems like the easiest solution to that problem, for the devs. Much harder to design monster AI so that back row players were in equal danger, or to provide tools for players to kick others, or to expect players to police their own games. Just divide up all the MF and call that a fix. And maybe it is…

        Are we going to see unintended consequences in behavior? Will it become SoP to scan the gear of everyone in your game and say things like, “minimum 150% MF to be in this party”  ? I guess that’ll be hard, without the ability to name public games.

        • It’s not hard to predict.  People will probably want groups with MF in them. But on a fundamental level this is something that removes the incentive for the bad behavior. It doesn’t reward the player that isn’t doing anything to help the group.  That’s a much better solution than trying to give the players the tools to deal with it and asking them to police it themselves. Anyone who’s played some of the modern games knows that kicking people can be pretty difficult, in a lot of situations and not to mention frustrating having to deal with that crap every game.

          And considering the incentive to leech would be very high with the RMAH, this is the only really viable solution other than removing MF altogether.  There’s simply no way to include MF that doesn’t encourage solo play, discourage grouping, or encourage degenerative play (leeching).  

          Another thing to think about is the fact that in a party setting, +gold find, +MF and +Exp are the ONLY three stats that don’t benefit the group as a whole.  Everything else either makes you better at killing or staying alive, which is good for the party.  On a philosophical level, by stacking MF you are sacrificing some of the stuff that helps the group in return for something that only helps you.  It would make sense then, to share it in a group setting.  

          You also have to remember, I think something everyone is forgetting, is that everyone will be running MF. There’s no reason not to. And even having some will make a big difference in the split, and if there is a DR, it won’t be that big of a deal. (If there isn’t a DR, not having it split would be a HUGE problem).

    • This has very low probability… Better go to Vegas. What will pay is to play a lot (24/7). Having your MF divided by 2 means twice less gears (100$ instead of 200$ is no such a big difference). Killing 1000 more monsters means 1000 more gears. This is a big difference.

  18. This was a necessary change to deal with the moral hazard that would have been a problem with “mf leeches.”  The old system had a really bad incentive for people to just stack mf at the cost of everything else, follow others around doing no damage, and collect better loot than the rest of the party. 

    This adequately solves that, though.   

    The one problem left is that this can discourage grouping though, for MF minded players. They won’t want to “give” their mf to other people on their team.

    This is ultimately the problem they were going to run into insisting that MF had to make a return, and at least this solution is better than the alternative.

    Another important factor will be whether or not there is a Diminishing Return on MF. If there is, it may be a way to use grouping as a way to leverage the spit to reduce the effective DR, to some extent. Example: Suppose 200 MF gets counted as 150 MF somewhat like it was in D2, and that at 150% there was no DR. Then a player with 200 MF joining a 2 player game will have it split. Both players will end up with 100 MF if the other player has no MF, and the end result would be a setup where the total of the two players works out to more mf than the individual meaning more good items across the group, even if slightly less for the individual.

  19. I thought this was ancient news. To me the more pressing concerns are:
    – Will it be like D2 where the best items have tons of MF anyway? Even in the beta you can get 100+ mf.
    – If you’re MFing for items…what are those items for? What’s the goal you’re building towards? If you’re at the point where you’re farming at the highest difficulty decked out in MF gear then the game is over. You’ve won. Unless you PvP.

    • The biggest issue with MF actually is: Will it have a hard cap or soft cap via diminishing returns in practice? 

  20. Sounds great, I’ve been playing around with the idea of a very support oriented Witch Doctor with a heavy emphasis on CC and party buffs. Being able to further augment that by piling on the bonus-applying gear just sounds like another nice bonus to character customization. The split is pretty understandable and necessary for the individual loot system when you consider how obscenely easy it would be to max out 100% with 4 players or how tedious it could get ensuring the guy with 100% always landed the killing blow. For the farmers…well; If you’re playing by yourself, same ol’ same ol. If you’re playing with friends than it’s safe to assume they’ll be contributing MF as well if it’s needed.The split is only helping your own chances that they might find something you’re looking for and trade it to you. If you’re playing with strangers than it again reminds me of D2, only here you just have to make due with the fact a lucky right-click isn’t going to give them FULL advantage of your MF instead of just partial.

  21. Think about it like this: if you’re in a game grouped with dead weight players, you’re already slowing yourself down. Obviously, having strong players in a group makes you more efficient. So if you are someone who wants to group at all, and you want do go MFing, then you should find an appropriate group for that that can and will help you. If that sounds like too much work, or if you’re pessimistic about grouping in general, then this just makes the calculus easier.

    TL;DR- They weren’t helping you anyway, this just makes it more obvious.

  22. According to all available info, every additional real player (not followers, as far as I can tell) adds +75% life to the monsters. In a good group, two players should be doing 200% damage to 175% health monsters. Three players, 300% damage to 250% monsters, and four players, 400% damage to 325% monsters. A four player group has a (theoretical) 75% faster advantage against the monsters.
    Let’s say you “sacrifice” one character to be the MF bot. All s/he does is stack as much MF as possible, and s/he is so pathetically mediocre in all other stats that you don’t want to risk her/him in the thick of battle. (What happens to MF bonuses when someone dies, especially in Hardcore, I have no idea.) S/he sits in the back and doesn’t do anything. So now you’re going 300% damage against 325% monsters. So “technically” you should be moving about 25% slower. But, if the MF is so ridiculously high, even shared, then you might get more out of the monsters you do kill, even though you might be killing a little slower. And, if the other three characters drop all MF so they can really ramp up the carnage, maybe that makes up the 25% slower discrepancy from the MF bot. Team building will be a lot more interesting.
    This of course assumes that the best of the best gear doesn’t have all damage, all defense, and all MF, all the time. Then MF becomes a silly add on stat, not something you really think about when building a character/team. Hopefully there are more than enough crazy affixes that push MF into a real trade-off dilemma. And hopefully Inferno is so hard that you’ll need every ounce of real power and defense you can scrape together, and MF is only a luxury for the ultra elites. If Inferno is hard enough, we might see 3+MF bot groups be more effective than mixed groups.

    • I’m wondering about proximity as well.  Is the MF shared in the whole game? Or just if they’re close enough to get a drop from the monster in question? Could a 500% MF char sit in town and grant 250% to you in the dungeon?

  23. initially I thought this was the worst thing I’ve ever heard
    but it makes sense if you think about it for a sec, they’re just balancing co-op drops
    they’ve always stated that in co-op you clear levels faster and get more drops because of it, if everything was affected by your MF hypothetically you would get 4x your MF with a 4 person party.
    by averaging everyone’s bonuses and sharing it, it balances out with solo drop rate.
    making both co-op and solo play attractive.

  24. On the plus side, this removes the motivation for Magic Find leechers who have nothing but high magic find.

    However, this creates the opposite problem. Will there now be prejudice and ostracizing of people who “bring down the average?” Will the guy with badass gear, but 0 magic find be kicked from the group because his slight killing speed advantage isn’t worth the huge hit to MF and GF?

    My biggest worry has always been that magic find and gold find will become super stats. Required modifiers on all PvM high end gear. Anything without one or both modifiers will be immediately classified as second rate gear.

    This is certainly better than the alternative, but frankly I would rather we did away with MF and GF entirely.

    • It all comes down to how MF is balanced against other stats.  With diminishing returns on MF though one guy without it isn’t going to have a huge effect on the overall bonus from MF.

      I still feel that the few bonuses of MF that you really can stack on gear accounts for such a small change in your total stats that it won’t have that massive of an impact either way. 

    • Totally agree.  No matter how you implement MF it will ALWAYS encourage solo play, which is something they didn’t want to do. 

  25. So basically everytime we make a game with strangers we’ll get spammed with “ur MF?”, yeah, sounds great.

    A magic find leech could have easily be dealt with by tying MF to actual kills the player makes, but no, Blizzard doesn’t think that far.

    • Any worse than the alternative “ur not MF?”

      • Having MF doesn’t have to hurt DPS output, not having MF does hurt average MF output when MF is shared, so your “alternative” situation is invalid.

        Anyways, i already formulated a solution to leeching, so this “change” is entirely unnecesary and will resort in everyone having to reach an MF quota.

        • If stacking MF doesn’t hurt your killing efficiency, then why even bother? Where’s the trade-off? Stacking MF till your eyes bleed, w/ no negative consequences, is boring and pointless. Why would it exist at that point?

    • If MF was tied with the Killing Blow, you would still have the exact same problem.  People wouldn’t want to group with people that have low MF, because they would be more likely to get the killing blow and apply their low mf to the kill, which has the same ultimate effect of “wasting” the mf user’s stat.  

      • No you wouldn’t have the “exact” same problem. Because every person would then be atleast smewhat responsible for their own (good/bad) drops.
        But anyways, the sort of leeching you’re talking about (not killing anything and just collecting loot) is just inherent to that other broken system called personal drops.

        • Too far man 🙂

          Having spent a lot of time playing ranged attackers, with 300ms latency and NOT running a pickit I can assure you that “personal drops” is not a broken system.

          Non-Americans and non-cheats can now get decent loot in multi. That is a good thing. 

          • But the problems you stated with the previous system doesn’t mean personal drops isn’t a broken  system for it’s own reasons. So i wholeheartedly sympathize with you, but you make a poor argument.

  26. I don’t see much of a point looking at this situation from the extremes of either end.  Even without trying players are bound to end up with some MF and those who stack it are still bound to end up with a fair set of combat stats.  In these situations the loss or benefit of a few points of MF won’t be terribly significant especially when factoring in diminishing returns.

    The fact that this change removes the incentive to stack MF and only MF everywhere you can get it to exploit multiplayer games is a step in the right direction.  With that gone, I don’t think there will be a lot of effort placed in trying to game the system to your advantage.  The good players will find a nice balance between combat stats and MF because it is the best for themselves and their group.  There is no more prisoner’s dilemma. 

    EDIT: Also consider that evening the MF helps to combat diminishing returns. Surely 4 people with 100% MF is better than 1 with 400%. If you are playing with a group of friends this change is absolutely in your advantage.

  27. Will our personal MF be accurately reported in the stat screen when playing multiplayer, where it would be different from the total on our items because of averaging?  How can we know what MF other players have in our game?  I can say I have 27,000 MF and people would love to play with me, but in fact I have 0 and I’m leaching.  If my personal MF goes up/down, who’s contributing/draining how much?

  28. I see it as Blizzard changing Diablo from a “me” to a “we” game. All the things you guys are saying negatively about this are selfish reasons. Blizzard wants to move away from that and get you to play with other players.
    I wonder how a vote system would work (similar to WoW) when items are dropped? Too late to add it now, but I thought something like that would never work, but after playing WoW, it works quite well actually. I’m sure the reason it works is BOP items, so all you get is a little bit of gold out of it instead of being able to throw it up on the auction house.
    Either way, I don’t care too much. I didn’t do many public games on D2 anyway. I’ll get a group of friends, all having high MF, and we’ll do some Inferno runs. We’ll share items, so everything works out for everyone.

    • How is leaving games because the team lowers ones average MF less selfish you clueless git.

      • Its less selfish because otherwise people will sacrifice killing speed for mf all the time. Which is also retarded.
        And to all the people complaining about this change it pretty simple. If you join a game and you dont like who your playing with leave. Really not that complicated.

    • ya they want to get us to play with others so they give us chat system that is utter shit, only after everyone complained that having no chat system was a bad idea.  Seems more like catering to casuals that cry about MF. 

  29. one more reason to solo mf.

    • Your under the assumption that running Inferno with high MF is even possible.
      In fact, most of us discussing this are under such assumption. I’m guessing that Inferno wont be total Faceroll like Diablo 2’s hell was. Solo MF’ing with MF gear may not even be a likely scenario. Especially in Hardcore.

  30. As long as the sharing doesn’t have anything to do with cutting the bonuses of my equipment by 75%, meaning I have all the gear and no else has any, and we all only get 25% of the whole.

    • Did you read the example given? That is exactly how it’s going to be.

      • I read it, which is why I made the comment.  In other words, it’s ffffing stupid and NO ONE is going to play with anyone that doesn’t have equal or greater MF/GF/XP bonuses.  TDLR…. all solo games.
        They want to add it all up, divide by number of players, and then take that number and add it to what your individual bonuses, now there would a reason to play together.

  31. My first reaction: Okay, say I have gear with decent MF but I also have a lot of killing-power, like a D2 Sorc in full Tal’s. I could solo, but if some newbie joins my game with tons of MF gear and not much else I’m still gonna benefit from my MF plus his, so I’m still finding better gear for about the same amount of time killing stuff. If the newb has neither MF nor killing power, “kick” or drop.

    If the game is 4-player and I’m the only one killing anything it won’t be viable for anybody in Hell or Inferno because the monsters aren’t going to die fast enough and/or we keep dying, so the leeches won’t be motivated to stick around.

    In any case, I think it will encourage group play and teamwork more so than the previous system, as it will always be better for the group to have both max MF *and* max killing power, which I think is a good thing for the game overall.

  32. Good solution imo.
    As Flux point out there can be problems with it. As in very good gearing players with both MF and dmg carrying badly geared people, but that would kinda happen without MF too.
    Then again nothing stops people from leaving a game if they aren’t happy with the group.
    The good aspects far outweighs the bad ones imo.
    Has to be the first D3 news in months I consider to be a good idea 😛

  33.   I don’t mind this too much personally since I am going to be playing solo or with friends the vast majority of the time. However, as far as the MF leecher issue was concerned, this just makes it so the person w/o MF better be able to kill twice as fast as the MFer or they aren’t pulling their weight. It just flips the tables around on the issue.

      Also we don’t know enough about the MF itemization to make any conclusions about how weak or strong an MF focused character would be.

  34. Haha…seems like the first time almost everyone is happy 🙂

    • I thought we were pretty much in agreement at first when I came here too…
      Then I hopped on the Official forums a bit…. And WoW…. I’ve spent the past 3 hours making counter-points to threads about how this is a good change. It’s been a fun debate nonetheless 8)

  35. I think I like this change. DIII was making co-op a bit too much of a requirement for being effective to my tastes, so I like the fact that there’s an added incentive for going solo. It also prevents the MF only people leeching off the people actually playing the game.

  36. This is funny, for the first time ever blizzard makes a change to the game that incgamers, in their nostalgia driven, spin zone TO THE MAX news covering ways, likes. 

  37. How does this change “appeal to casuals”? Most “casuals” probably don’t care enough about the game’s core mechanics to give a damn either way about what happens to their magic find when they join a party. They’ll know that magic find means they find more magic items and not care about the rest. The change doesn’t affect them.

  38. Oh please flux. Stop trying to stir up controversy, it was getting old a year ago and now it’s about to pass boring and turn into self-parody. 
    There are a number of unknowns that affect how this change plays out, such as the prevalence of mf stats on your more common items vs the the more rare ones.
    Most of us are going to group with friends anyway, and people of similar skill level, so this change will end up as an improvement or at least not a drawback for those folks.

  39. What’s this companion, available for rent, which increases adventure stats by 20%? I’ve never heard of that before.

    I gotta say about the MF change: It has been a long time coming. They clearly had a ‘do no harm to co-op’ attitude and MF affected co-op negatively. Now I wonder whether it will pretty much kill multiplayer though. What reason is there to go MP besides killing stuff with your friends?

    • Did you even read what you wrote?

      The purpose of multiplayer is to play with your friends. Always has been, always will be.

      What do you think multiplayer is?

    • Pretty sure they mean the followers that you “hire” (even though it doesn’t cost any gold to do so). I guess that means in the final game, having a follower will give you a 20% bonus to all stats under the adventure category. Don’t know if that means +20% to all or it is 20% of what you currently have added on. Probably the latter…

      • I thought it meant you only get 20% of the MF/GF they’re wearing. You stick 100 MF on your merc, you only get 20 MF off of it. What happens when the merc “takes a knee” is a mystery; do you instantly lose that 20 MF while the merc is down, or do you keep it the whole time?

  40. This information is corroborated by another CM:

  41. I think a player should still benefit more from his own MF. Simply averaging makes me not want to play with people with bad gear because they may leech my MF and/or not kill faster than I do. There should only be benefits to partying. I propose everyone gets 100% of their own MF and also a percentage of other player’s MF. This puts the sum of total MF on all players above the sum of MF of those players were they in single player game, i.e. generating MF out of thin air. For example, each player equips 100% MF. In 2 player game, they will each have effectively 150% MF. In 3 players, 200% MF, and in 4 player games, 250% MF. Total effective MF is 1000% but only 400% from equipment. 600% is created as \group bonus\. Furthermore, the effective MF that’s used to calculate the drop should be that of the person that makes the kill. Not the person that receives the drop. This gives me incentive to actually carry the group of bad players (who have less equipped MF and less killing power). Just like how I don’t mind people leeching the Skeleton King — their presence only makes the encounter harder, but at least they can’t hurt my drops.  

    • Perhaps they think the much faster rate of killing monsters from being in a group to be enough of a bonus and would rather multiplayer be balanced with solo than vastly superior.

  42. I actually like this for one main reason: When I am playing with friends who have higher magic find than I do, I no longer have to worry about allowing them to get the last hit.

  43. The only thing this change does is make it so I’ll be soloing more, not less.  If your magic find gear is averaged out between everybody in the party than that means the person with the highest magic find is actually going to normally end up with an overall drop in their magic find.  If I join a game with +200 magic find and then other three people only have, for example, +60, +125, and +180, then that means everybody ends up with 141.25.  Why on earth would I want to join other people in a game if it results in a loss for my magic find? Sure the two players with lower magic find benefit but I’m not playing this game to give other random people my magic find bonus while getting nothing in return.

    This pretty much just sealed the deal for me playing with friends/family only.

    • “Why on earth would I want to join other people in a game if it results in a loss for my magic find?”

      Quicker killing power that balances out the loss in mf. If you look at your party’s gear or skill and find them unworthy of your superior mf bonus then you have the right to leave whenever you want.

      • You are assuming that low MF automatically must mean superior killing power. The reality will be much different. Everyone that thinks averaging MF will encourage teamplay don’t know what they’re talking about.

        • So having players leech with their 150% MF when I actually work hard to get gear that makes me stronger is fair right?
          That scenario is worse imo. Fact is, meet some like minded players, and play in a private game if people are extremely worried about it. Got 150% MF? Play only with 150% MF players, but lets see how quickly you can kill things in Inferno… My guess it won’t be nowhere near as quick as my maxed out Wizard!  😉

          • If somebody leeches, kick them.  As long as a player is contributing to combat I don’t care if they aren’t some optimal DPS setup, Diablo has never been about being 100% optimal because it simply isn’t needed.  As long as the mobs are dying, and you’re helping, you’re gold in my book.  

            As far as quicker killing, that’s not even always true.  If I am a magic find spec, player 2 is trying out some weird build, player 3 is off trying to finish some side quest for an achievement that requires multiplayer, and player 4 is running ahead and not waiting for anybody, I will definitely say my going solo and getting 100% benefit from my MF will be vastly superior compared to grouping.  This will not always be the case, but more often than not I would suspect having other players with you actually slows you down.  This has been my experience even in the beta, as long as you are actually at appropriate level (7-9 and not 12-13) then having more players most of the time slows you down because most of the time nobody sticks together anyway.  Oh, this also relies on every mob that is killed dying within the radius for you to get items, chances are if you are a melee character with a wizard in the team you’re missing out on some loot.

            Even if almost all gear has a slot devoted to MF so that having MF doesn’t make any real impact on combat viability, if I know that my gear has a higher MF than anybody else in the group why do I really want to stay with them?   The people with lowest MF will always benefit and the people with the highest MF will always suffer.  This does not encourage team play, it encourages you to inspect inspect inspect and only group with people with MF close to or higher than your own. 

            The higher your MF the more obvious it is. If you end up in a game with 3 players who ignore MF, and you have ~400, you just lost a massive chunk of MF that would require a huge amount of faster killing to make up for which may not even be possible considering how large that drop was. Not worth it in my opinion.

  44. Even before, you never had to be worried about this. Drop was calculated by your own MF/GF. The killed it doenst count. Not its averaged.. still different loot. but same % for everyone 

  45. Oh well.. Mfing solo again just like D2 I guess

  46. Personally not sure if this communist-style redistribution of mf/gf/xp bonuses is the best solution, but it is definitely better than letting people benefit from their own mf only and leeching off the better killing power of the other group members. I’m hoping that the people that make it to Hell and Inferno (probably the only times I’ll be doing public games as I’d rather not be rushing through normal and nightmare) will be well informed enough about the different affixes and such that they go for well balanced equipment.

  47. whole thing sounds weak.
    if someones not pulling their weight in combat vote kick player.
    sharing bonuses defeats another aspect of character individuality

  48. No public games for me.

  49. I don’t know how MF works but doesn’t that mean less legendary and more magical items ? If your total MF is 25% instead 100% you will see less rare items ?

    • Magic find includes everything, not just magic items. You have a higher chance to get magic, rare, set, legendary, etc.
      Anyways, looks like I’ll definitely be playing solo like I did in Diablo II for gear farming.

  50. I’m not sure how this gets spun as another instance of Bliz appeasing the casual gamer.  When the MF wasn’t shared, the casual gamer got to sit back and get all the loot without killing as much.  When the MF is shared, the casual gamer now gets to benefit if the other skilled members are wearing more MF gear than they are.  It seems the only way to silence the MF haters is to just remove MF all together.  I hate to break it to the MF haters, but you’re still in the minority of the overall player pool and MF is here to stay.

    What this says to me more than anything is that Bliz made a change based on feedback.  People on forums pleaded with Bliz prior to the change that if MF was going to be in then at least share the MF amoung the group.  Well, they did it.  I hope those people who complained are happy.  Personally, I like the move.  I think this is the lesser of two evils.  I think that now MF is essentially nerfed since your entire party will have to have high MF in order to MF well.  I think Bliz is banking on the idea that it will still be more beneficial and enjoyable for people to play with other people than solo expecially at higher difficulty were people will eventually want to MF the most. 

    One last thing – remember a few weeks back when that dude from Blizzard puzzlingly said people will “have to play together” at higher difficulties in order to survive in the “You Will Die – We Promise” video?  If you say that now you’ll solo because of this change, my response is what if you can’t solo with all that MF on in Inferno?  I know, you’re the king of Diablo and you’ll own Inferno naked a week after release blah blah.  They’re calling your bluff, tough guy.  Time to put up or shut up.

    • My take is that “casual” gamers don’t know/care enough to optimize their equipment, and aren’t mix/maxing to get the best gear at any level, and aren’t especially skilled at the game. So by definition, they would not have had the ability to kill fast AND MF. One or the other, at best, and probably not either.

      I suppose one’s approval of this for PuGs depends on where you see your characters. If you figure you’ll be better equipped and more skillful than average, you’re giving up stats to the group. If you figure your chars will be less powerful, then it’s a benefit to you to share in the stats and killing speed of others.

      • Flux, I think you’re spot on with everything you say.  My point is that the decision on how to handle MF isn’t really a matter of appealing or not appealing to the casual gamer.  The casual gamer had an exploit on MF either way, right?  Either way there was also a disadvantage for skilled players whether it be casauls hanging back with MF leeching off the skilled players kills (before) or giving up MF to group members who are wearing less (now), right?  So if casuals can exploit it wither way and the skilled players could potentially be hurt by it either way then it doesn’t matter which way Blizzard goes with it from that standpoint.

        To me, the solution here (and I said it before the change and it still hold true) is that the best “fix” for the complexities that MF can present is to enable people of like motivations and skill level to party up together.  If you are skilled and you can get in games with other skilled people, this is all a moot discussion.

      • Aren’t we pretty much back at “Let people create custom games they can name”.
        “Inferno run req. 500+ MF” etc 😀
        I still don’t think this will affect groups as much as you imply. You don’t want to play with that badly geared 0 MF guy now, but you didn’t really want to play with him before either. In both cases he would be dragging you down, whether it was in terms of kill speed or Magic Find.
        It didnt matter in D2, because if someone sucked, you and maybe a few others just went ahead and killed Baal yourself (hell, if they couldn’t keep up, it meant more loot for you). If people end up doing the same in Inferno, then the whole system has failed anyway.

    • It gets spun that way because almost every single article posted by Flux is a “goddamn casuals ruining my gaming experience” rant.

      The old system encouraged leeching.  The new system encourages playing the game.  To anyone with half a brain, this is clearly the only intelligent way to solve the issue.  

  51. So now instead of leeching MF players, another type of player would emerge.
    This new player would convert (most of) their MF/GF gear into defensive gear and play. It is still selfish as they lower their chance to die, dont contribute as much MF/GF and their DPS is still not up there as the average player.

  52. 1) I guess you don’t have any “skilled” friends so for you it is obviously a reason to do more solo. Either that or you just hate casual/noobs and those probably won’t even play Inferno either way.
    2) Your estimation already set on how Difficult Hell/Inferno will be seems rather under estimated or wrongly guessed. Since none really knows. The fix was inevitable for public games imo.
    3) Why would anyone want to play a game where you just afk follow your party doing basicly nothing other then looting, it seems rather boring tbh. But I guess people want to do that after waiting 12 years for the game to release =/

    • Part of the point of playing pub(blic) games is playing with, you know, random people and have fun.
      Previously i wouldn’t have cared much if my game was full of nubs, but now Blizzard is actually going to negatively tamper with my character’s stats when playing with them? Fuck that shit, it’s retarded.

  53. all this crap does is enable more items to be fed into their profitable auction house.

  54. This is horrible.

    I pretty much will not be magic finding with randoms thanks to this.

    In fact, you probably won’t see me in public games now, thanks to this.

    Go Blizzard.  

    “3) Why would anyone want to play a game where you just afk follow your party doing basicly nothing other then looting, it seems rather boring tbh. But I guess people want to do that after waiting 12 years for the game to release =/”

    We are the minority, brother. Not everyone waited 12 years as we did.

    • @Ocajavati
      “3) Why would anyone want to play a game where you just afk follow your party doing basicly nothing other then looting, it seems rather boring tbh. But I guess people want to do that after waiting 12 years for the game to release =/”’
      I’m honestly failing to see your point. If anything, the previous system encouraged that more with MF stacking than this new method…..

  55. They just created another character class:  The Symbiotic Gimp.  How long before people start advertising their MF or GF% to get groups to leech off them?  Just stack as much MF/GF as you can and add in some survival skills/stats maybe some CC to help a bit.  Or rent out your MF/GF services is a possibility too…

    • I could totally see a group buff and CC spec with lots of MF being somewhat viable.
      However, you have to consider if it wouldn’t be better for all 4 people to go for a decent amount of MF and dmg gear/spec instead of having 1 person trying to drag up the average MF.

      • That certainly could be the case.  They’ve confirmed (from the beta) that you can have multiple +dmg affixes on items… have they confirmed multiple +mf/gf affixes?  If so, then you could have rares with huge mf/gf %.  That char added into a group that has just some MF would still give a big boost.

  56. My first impression of this change is that it’s good but doesn’t change much, now people who stack MF and do close to nothing are a walking buff instead of dead weight atleast. On the other hand everyone in your group needs good MF gear to reach those high levels of MF, which may be hard to achieve with random players. Playing in random groups where people don’t pull their own weight will not be a good experience no matter which system you have though.
    Playing in groups with people you know will always be more fun and efficient than playing with randoms, it remains to be seen if the average random group is worth playing with over playing solo I guess. It sure would help if you could name games wouldn´t it? so you could make games like “300+ mf”, “speedrun, no mf gear”, “only noobs, take it slow” or something like that. I can see alot of drama happening over gear in random groups and people being kicked for their gear.

    I suspect that random groups in hardcore will be pretty good on average, not so sure about softcore though.

  57. with the old system high MF gear = leeching
    people with windforces kill everything and collect the gray and white shit while you smack monsters with a wet noodle for 2 dmg and collect the 1337 l00t
    this is a very good change

  58. old system:
    player enters game
    how much MF you have?
    new player: 500

    new system:
    player enters game
    how much mf you have
    new player: 500
    other players:

  59. Honestly? MF and GF are broken dynamics that should be removed entirely.  I can’t believe I’m saying it as a “traditionalist” or “Diablo republican”.  The only thing from D2 that should be gone (I believe), but it’s here and being mutilated.  Players should be focusing on a power suits rather than trying to “slink by” with as much MF as possible with several extra pieces of gear to worry about.

  60. One thing that this does is to make sure that solo players won’t feel like they’re forced to group. Without this change, a 4x party with proper dps+mf would gain so much more good loot than solo play that it would almost feel stupid to play alone.
    I like this.

  61. I like the change. I would prefer to drop +mf and +gold find, but its going to stay so this is a much needed fix.

  62. I believe MF is bad bad game design. The core of the game is to clear difficult encounters for the loot they provide. Powerful items allow you to overcome challenges so that you can get powerful items. Now if an item has MF it is by definition less powerful than one without it. That itemization could go to something that actually helps core gameplay.

    MF poses a ficticious choice. Do I increase my power to kill faster to get the loot, or do I gimp my power to bad at killing, but with higher drop chance? Both are exactly the same, except one goes though fun gameplay, and the other one appeals to whatever retarded part of our primitive brain thinks slot-machines are fun.

    The fun way to play is the first one. Surpassing unbelievable odds with awe-inspiring power and skill is what this game was actually supposed to be about. The second one is a digital hamster wheel.

  63. Diablo 3 Socialism is awesome! (sarcasm included.)

  64. Wow, won’t be playing with randoms now, ever.  Real life friends only or solo.  To anyone thinking this will make random coop better, sooooooo wrong.  What it means it that smart/skilled/useful people, those with MF/GF will NEVER join random coop games.  Only people in random coop games will be newbs and/or Bashiok’s mom.  

    Because if you think smart people with a nice balance of MF/GF and killing gear are going to share it with randoms, sorry, no.

    If that sounds elitist, that’s because it is.  I honestly believe that I (and probably lots of people reading this) are way above the curve on average gamers and will definitely NOT be giving the ignorant masses a free ride on my hard earned mix/maxing MF/GF gear.  So here’s to never seeing any of you guys in game, no randoms for me. 

    • Excellent point.
      People that thinks they are above average will not join public games because they gain nothing but lose something. This degrades the quality of public games as only below-average people will join. It is a vicious cycle.
      There should not be a reason such as reduced MF that would prompt good players to not want to play with bad people.

    • @Koldfeat
      I can’t express how strongly I disagree with you. There are really only a select few who dislike this system, and what is amusing to me is there is a very distinct common denominator among all of you. And it’s simple.

      You are thinking like a Diablo 2 player.
      The phrase “useful people, those with MF/GF”is a strong oxymoron in Diablo 3. That is, assuming that by “useful”, you meant contributing to killing power and the advancement of the party. From what we know about Inferno so far, even with tremendous DPS/survivability gear, Inferno will still be challenging. Your philosophy comes from the old days of Diablo 2 where everyone had elite gear with magic find and still cut through mobs like butter. From what WE know, this will NOT be the case in Diablo 3.

      In that event (Diablo 2), spreading MF/GF would have gimped the party taking away from individuals with the MF gear who are simultaneously doing all the killing. In Diablo 3, where every point of DPS counts (from what we know), how dare you imply that you will use worse gear than me (MF gear)–and still manage to pull your weight while reaping ALL the benefits of better loot while I get none for doing all the work.

      I am very relieved a vast majority of the community is in support of this system. But an elitist”like you probably just gets his “smarts” from thinking the direct opposite of what all us “sheep” think, eh?

      • Great post, Koldfeat.  Unless we can see the MF of all party members (and not have to take it on their word), I’m not playing with them.  Diablo 3 isn’t one big escort mission. Real friends and single player only.

        I have to reiterate a point I make a lot here: everyone who is reading this sentence will solo inferno and whatever method (killing faster or having huge MF) produces the best drops will predominate.  It may take a few months or years of experimentation and crafting builds, but we will crush this game.  When they say it’s hard and we’ll need help, they’re not talking to us.

      • @pathfinder

        I consider pretty much anyone reading this forum or regularly reading the general D3 forums “elite”.  Probably the wrong word, but the vast majority of players at release will never look at any forums at all, never bother trying to min/max anything. and probably never complete inferno.  Many of them might ever understand why they would want GF/MF or even care if they do understand.  

        Those are the people that are going to be in random coop games and those are the people I want to avoid and will no longer have any reason to ever group with.  Which is fine actually, doesn’t really bother me since solo is fine and playing with friends is fine.  Just pointing out that most good players, (those reading this right now) will probably avoid random coop games because there is only downside and no upside if you have balanced your gear to get some nice GF/MF and still be an efficient killer.

        • @Koldfeat
          By that logic, I could understand where you’re coming from from Normal through possibly even Hell. But you even said yourself, most “casuals” will never make it into Inferno, much less enjoy getting slaughtered by it. So, the higher in rank you go, the less this becomes a problem. And fortunately enough, as that problem becomes less significant, the item drops become better.
          To add to that, we can all assume that players in Inferno will be the more serious players (i.e. the people visiting this site). Therefore, they will be more experienced in choosing gear. This is where I believe the balancing really shines, like I’ve said in a few other posts. I do understand your concerns, but I think you’re more worried than necessary.

          • I don’t really want to speculate on balancing MF/GF gear in Inferno too much, since no ones really knows.  My guess is that even in inferno it will be possible to carry some nice MF/GF and still progress.  If that’s true, why would I want to dilute my MF unnecessarily?

            I don’t know if it’s intended or unintended by Blizz, but I stand by my point that this change will seriously hurt the quantity and quality of random coop games.

  65. Best news since ages period.

  66. My advice:
    Stop making theories.
    Wait a little. Try the game. Analyze results you got while playing with others.
    THEN decide your way playing this game. 😀

  67. I often wonder if these guys ever played D2…Now I have to find 3 other people dedicated to MF in order for me to get the best odds at finding good items?  Ridiculous…I bet it was just easier for them to code it that way than to try to divide up the drops.

  68. I played d2 for years and i am fine with this. There would be a lot of mistrust in D3 among parties if they kept it specific to the player. Also, if you don’t like the change, play by yourself and not in a group.

  69. Since I’m still not in the beta *sigh*, I have a question – does the UI display the +MF, +GF, +EXP bonused that are actually being used by the game to calculate how much extra of each I’m getting if I’m in a public game?  My guess based on the news article is that it doesn’t.  If I’m right about that, I think it’s clearly an enhancement that Blizzard needs to consider.  In a public game with other players, it doesn’t help me to know only what bonuses I’m contributing to the party if that’s not what the game is using to calculate my MF, GF, and EXP bonuses.  If they are going to share these bonuses equally within the party, then I think they need to tell me how the party is effecting my drops/experience earned. 

  70. How would you all feel if Blizzard decided to enchance the current mechanic by giving players an artifical bump to these three stats that scales up with the number of players in a game.  For example – there are two players playing together in a game in a party and one has +120% MF and the other has +80% MF.  Instead of them each having the average of +100% MF, what if Blizzard took that number and added, say, 15% to it and made it 115% for both players as a bonus for playing together.  It could scale up from there to bonuses like 20% more for 3 players and 25% more for 4 players.  Would a bonus like that make them game better overall or would it be frowned upon too much by those that would rather play solo as an unfair advantage to those who elect to play co-op?

    • I was thinking of something very similar. Does the “monsters get stronger as more players join” mechanic still exist in D3? If so, then we may already have a MF bonus for playing in party vs solo, since higher lvl monsters drop better items. 

  71. MF will be no where near as important as the ability to kill quickly in D3 (which a group should be best at). Your forgetting the best loot comes from random champ mobs / packs. 

    The people with the ability to find these mobs the quickest, have the best chance of attaining the best loot.

    Keep your magic find in your solo game if it means that much to you, but enjoy taking 4 times as long to find the good mobs.

  72. I can see it now, LFG in chat channels with one with high MF as a requirement. Basically, we don’t have class roles per se, but MF, DPS and Support build defenitely fits the bill. Now, is that a good or a bad thing?
    It depends on how hard Inferno really is. As for now, it is too early to make a fair assumption without even knowing what “endgame” really is. If it comes to the point that D3 turns into WoW that partying is an absolute must, then I am fine with the MF sharing rule. But if I can help it, then I’d probably solo everything.

  73. @Koldfeat Except the majority of players that don’t care about min/maxing will probably never play in inferno.

    • And?  So you will also be avoiding all random coop games until you get to Inferno and then “maybe” use them at that point?  The point is that the change will greatly reduce the number and quality of people playing in random coop games.  Will the effect be somewhat less in Inferno?  Sure, why not.

      • @Koldfeat
        I still disagree. I think where you’re forming this opinion is from Diablo 2. I need to remind you that Diablo 2 behaviors should not be a factor when considering MF’ing/grouping in Diablo 3. Sorry if “this isn’t D2!!1” sounds cliche by now but it needed to be said. Please consider the next few sentences carefully: In Diablo 2, you could stack MF and still lay waste to mobs. With EASE. From what we know about Diablo 3, you will need every bit of DPS/survivability gear you can muster just to stay alive. That is what they have told us. “You will die, we promise…”, etc… By you diminishing the overall killing efficiency of the team so YOU and ONLY YOU can benefit from better item drops is absolutely insane. I cannot fathom how any person could not see that.

        What does this system do? This system encourages a balance. There are players who say, “Well now this does the opposite! People are leeching from my high MF.” Yes, that may happen in cases–but you are leeching off whatever stats he has. That is possible. But what the system *encourages* is for players to have a balanced combination of MF, DPS, and survivability.

        I feel a tremendous sense of relief that this policy was instated. I was sincerely worried that I would not want to play in PUG’s are endgame because everyone–and I really mean everyone–would be stacking MF and doing significantly less damage while I focused solely on killing and only partially on MF’ing (stat-wise).  There’s pro’s and con’s to everything, but the few *minor* cons you’ve mentioned (which I concede, they are cons nonetheless) are absolutely nothing compared to the extreme selfish attitude that would develop by leaving MF the same was it was in Diablo 2. It dis-encourages teamplay at an extreme level. I would even go so far as to say this saved the game. At least, for me and my view of endgame content it did. 😀

  74. I will certainly be soloing D3, not because of MF, but because I wouldn’t want to play with any of you.”Not pulling their weight”, “Leechers”, “Noobs”…etc. Same old sad talk, sad people, that ruined WoW. It’s a game, primarily it should be fun. The best times from Quake to UT through Diablo2 and even WoW, were those games helping ‘undergeared’/’less skilled’ players to better their gear or game. Too many ‘me, me, me’ers these days. Sigh.

    Co-op play should be about the quality of the people you play with, not the quality of the gear.

  75. You’re all wrong and qqin about something u shouldnt be. before hand this was going to be avg’d thru the group so. you with 250% MF in a 4 player group if no one else had MF then it would avg to 250/4.  Too many ppl qq’d about that and now they do this to make them happy and ppl qq more. be VERY happy they didnt do they other way. and YOU get all your MF.

  76. Can we actually see this effect when we check our stats(live)? Or should we just be guessing how much we total up?

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