Diablo 3’s Paragon System 2.0: Answers and Questions


One of the biggest reveals from DiabloWikiGamescom 2013 is the new DiabloWikiParagon System. We’ve heard details about it in multiple interviews so far, and today brings a new picture showing the specific bonuses available in the Attack Tab. The basic system is pretty simple, though very different from Diablo 3’s current iteration.

Paragon 2.0 Basics

Current Paragon System pie chart.

Current Paragon System pie chart.

When the system changes (this should happen for everyone, for free in D3C, before DiabloWikiReaper of Souls is released) all of your individual characters with Paragon levels will contribute their Paragon experience to the new shared paragon level. This is experience, not levels, and the current system requires far more experience per level as you go higher. For example, ten current P10 characters have a fraction of the experience of one P100 character.

Paragon levels grant paragon points. These points are distributed to all the characters on your account (again, HC and SC are separate) and can be used from level 1. (It’s not known if a brand new level 1 would get access to the full total bonus, or if the total bonuses would be gradually accessed at say 1/7 of the total per 10 levels until max at level 70.)

There is nothing like the current system with a passive 3% Magic Find and Gold Find per level, plus a normal level stat bonus. Each of your characters will gain no inherent passive automatic bonus with a level in Paragon 2.0. Instead, each paragon level grants a paragon point that you can spend in various bonus properties. You must set these yourself, and you can vary them greatly between characters and respec them as needed. We do not yet know what all the bonuses are or their values, and that’s all subject to change during further development anyway. What we do know is what the devs have said during interviews, and what we’ve seen in screenshots.

 

Paragon Point Bonuses

The Core tab was shown during the main Gamescom presentation and it contains the four attributes. There are three other tabs, and today’s new screen grab shows off the Attack tab. Here are the two we’ve seen thus far.

  • Core: Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Vitality.
  • Attack: Attack Speed, Critical hit Chance, Critical hit Damage, Cooldown reduction.
  • Defense: +Blocking % confirmed. Others? (Res All? Recovery time reduction?)
  • Utility: Movement Speed confirmed. Others? (MF/GF? +Exp?)

We know all 4 properties for Core and Attack, but only one each has been confirmed in Defense and Utility. Feel free to speculate, and hopefully we’ll get full details on these sooner rather than later. Click through for more on Paragon point distribution, the mystery of Magic Find, and final questions in need of answers.

 

Paragon Point Distribution

As the devs have stressed, all these features are still under development and the bonuses and how much each point adds to them will probably change somewhat before it goes live. Also, the big issue is total Paragon points and how that exp curve will work. We also do not know how free we are to spend paragon points — can you put every single paragon point into the same tab? (It looks like you can from the slide shown during the presentation, with its dumptruck of points in Strength.)

Another question is about max caps; will there be hard caps of some sort, when added to equipment bonuses? That’s come up in interviews regarding Movement Speed, and Josh Mosqueira just refused to answer or speculate and said the issue was still being debated internally.

As we know, there’s a +25% cap on Movement Speed (from gear) in Diablo 3, and any bonuses above that do you no good. (Though many classes have skills that add bonuses which will exceed that figure.) There are lots of ways the devs could handle this, all of them with pros and cons:

  1. Perhaps Paragon Point bonuses to Movement Speed will increase the pace above the 25% gear hard cap with no cap?
  2. Perhaps there will be a new, higher Movement Speed cap that gear + Paragon points add up to?
  3. Perhaps the Movement Speed cap will remain at 25%, and players will spend Paragon points there to open up different gear options. (You could use Paragon points to fill the 25% and then wear one or none items that boost MS on their own.)

Equivalent questions can be asked about most of the other bonuses. The only other properties now hard capped are Magic Find and Gold Find at 300%, but many players have requested hard caps or diminishing returns on other stats as a way to improve itemization.

Currently in D3C there’s very little affix variety since there are no caps, hence it’s always better to add more DiabloWikiCC, DiabloWikiCD, DiabloWikiAS, DiabloWikiRes All, etc. But what if those stats had hard caps or heavy diminishing returns? Wouldn’t that encourage players to diversify their kit and to put more value on some of the other stats that aren’t necessarily bad… but aren’t ever as good as more crit chance.

 

Magic and Gold Find

Another big question is what’s going to happen with DiabloWikiMagic Find and DiabloWikiGold Find? The devs have often said they don’t particularly like those affixes on items and the current Paragon system goes a long way to eliminating them as gear properties, with the inherent 3% bonus per Paragon Level.

The inherent bonus might remain (at 3% or something else) so that your account Paragon levels would automatically grant X amount of MF/GF to all of your characters, no matter their level. Or there might be Paragon points to add to Magic Find and/or Gold Find in the Utility Tab, and it would be up to you if you wanted to spend them there. In either event, the question of a hard cap remains, and how high it would be, and how much each paragon point would add.

Other Questions

We know all about the basic function of the system, but as it says in the DiabloWiki.Net, “The devil is in the detail”. How big will the bonuses be, how much exp will be required for each Paragon Level, and can a Level 1 character stack on 300 paragon points right from the first instant or do they come in at tiers (this is a big question for HC players who actually have to reroll from time to time).

If you guys have speculations or other questions, throw them into comments and we’ll see if we can get some more specifics post-Gamescom, when Lylirra has said the devs will be providing more info and write ups of the new features.

Comments

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  1. wont a p 100 be stronger than any char post paragon 2.0 since each paraggon lvl currently gives what? 3 main + 1-2 for each other stat?

    does the new paragon still give +3 main + 1-2 other, then +1 to spend in any other category of your choice?

    • We dont really know about how this is going to happen..
      We donno if we’ll get the passive GF/MF/7 points passivily as we level up, like happens right now…
      We also donno how many points exaclty we’ll get for every paragon level, 1 ? 5 ? 10 ?…
      But if i had to guess i would say we’ll get 5 points and lose all the passive things we won till now (MF/GF/7 points per lv)…So yes, we are gonna become alittle weaker, but now we’ll have the chance to put in many specific atribute we want, if you want to be more tanky, go all in defense, more MF/GF/EXP (assuming thats utility), go all in…
      I actualy rather lose some Vit/Main stat and get the ability to build what i actualy need…
      Sry about my english…but remember, its all rumors, even those screens, might and probably will be changed for better or worse..

  2. In the picture we see the character has with 33 invested points which amounts to a 165 strength. That’s 5 str per level. It seems like you can only invest 50 points into an attribute. In this case a cap of 250 strength. Even a level 84 para 1.0 character has more str than that.

    I think you still get the paragon bonuses and the para-point comes as an extra.

    • But isnt ok to nerf abit the ammount of str you can get, giving that now we’ll also be able to add crit Dmg/chance, attack speed, etc ?
      We’ll get alot of new ways to buff ourselves, so yeah, we might be alittle weaker, but in time, we’ll surpass that for sure with all of the other atributes we can add…and again, all might change/balance out.

  3. Meaningless to me unless they buff non-primary stat effects.

    • Right, they should make non-primary stats viable for other classes. Torchlight 2 got it right with how the stats function/work depending on the skills / weapons you use.

  4. Its amazing how the pre-expasion patches are as cool (and important) as the expasion itself, and if you think about the, right now the expasion is \smaller\ than this pre-exp patches, at least in ways to fix the game, so im SURE they have many new things to announce from D3X…*pvp T_T*..

    The coolest thing out of your reflection, to me, was when you spoke about either hard caps or diminishing returns on some atributes, never thought about it, but for sure, it would give alot of new ways to build around secondary atributes, i would love either seeing a 75% Cric chance cap or a dimishing return on it like happens with dodge or armor, i truely hope we get them for most atributes…btw, did Blizz ever responded to these ideas ?

  5. Flux, i havent seen anything talking about this.
    Some guy was playing the beta for few minutes and apparently he had the ability to change MP to 30,50, 100…I’ve only heard about it on a fan video (thought he gives me no video showing only a screenshot).
    This is one of the screenshots
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=170978233089951&set=pb.112161505638291.-2207520000.1377484451.&type=3&theater
    There are other ones with diff numbers with higher/lower MPs…Might be fake…but would make sense, assuming we’ll become ALOT stronger AND exp bonus would be needed for this new paragon system with no cap.

    • Blizz has already said that’s the player level, not the MP

    • Someone asked Lylirra about that. It’s just the character level; the display has been changed a bit in D3X with the paragon going to sharagon. I think there are changes to Monster Power also that they’re just not talking about yet.

  6. I like the paragon system a lot. I think it adds the proper depth the game needs. I don’t have any complaints here. This is a good job by Blizzard.

    Its like I say, I DO BELIEVE D3 will be a good game. Its just going to take them until D3X2 to get there.

  7. If I didn’t make myself clear, I like the NEW Paragon 2.0 system a lot. It makes me want to play.

    captcha solve: free cookie

  8. BTW this DOES sound very similar to the rumored “Path of the Titans” in World of Warcraft, which was supposed to have gone in back in Cata of Clysm.

    New system: PATH OF THE TITANS
    An account wide progression system where all characters on one account earn “Titanic Experience” that increases progression for all characters on the account in the new system. Sharing perks such as mounts at level 10 and +10% honour points in battlegrounds it allows players to enjoy the game on any character without feeling like they are being hindered too much by changing character.

    Milestones will also include cosmetic gear, rare cosmetic glyphs and booster packs for Blizzards Hearthstone digital CCG

    Captcha solve: Just 1 Cap

  9. I am pretty sure that paragon levels and their star points become static metrics added to the character correct? Meaning gaining as many plvls pre expansion?

  10. Currently in D3C there’s very little affix variety since there are no caps, hence it’s always better to add more CC, CD, AS, Res All, etc. But what if those stats had hard caps or heavy diminishing returns? Wouldn’t that encourage players to diversify their kit and to put more value on some of the other stats that aren’t necessarily bad… but aren’t ever as good as more crit chance.

    What stats other than CC, CD, AS, Res All, Vit, and Main Stat would players put more value on if the ones listed were capped? Bonus Fury? Armor? Pickup Radius? Reduced resource cost? Life regeneration? How much would players really gain from trying to gear for these secondary stats? How would one get players excited for another 9k bonus life when using a health globe or potion?

    The real problem is that all skills’ damage comes from a percentage of the weapon’s damage.

  11. hold on wait. So they are basically making this game like diablo 2 after you reach max level? I guess they have some game designer remorse with their game…what happened to character customization being too inconvenient ect?

  12. Wow, this system is actually even worse since it will be forcing you to grind classes you completely hate (most of them) just for the most efficient paragon exp.

    Leave it to Blizz to make a bad situation worse by completely ignoring fan community feedback and trying to pander d2 nostalgia to the sheep with an archaic system.

    • What ? Wai…What ?
      How come you have to farm/grind on classes you hate for the most efficient paragon exp ?
      Is the other way around, with this new system, IF you have one huge leveled up character and decide to try another class, you can easily do it without feeling like you are wasting your time, since (as soon as you reach max level) you’ll be getting paragon exp for the whole account…
      Im sorry, i failed to see your logic.

  13. sorry but that’s some weak customization. If they didn’t take the effort to have utility have actual skill options the excitement is going to be short-lived post beta or release depending on all the content they include in beta. If they took the lazy option again with the paragon system instead of touching skills while utility works around stuff like pickup radius, mov speed, GF, MF … fuuuuuck that.

    • Yeah fuck all of that, you know what FUCK diablo 3, lets get out of here…But i enjoy the game so…Can YOU please go ^^ ? I mean, you not playing a shit game like this after all, so why stay ?..

  14. I imagine Globe Radius will be one of the stats in Utility too.

  15. This new Paragon 2.0 won’t fix (or add) anything. They just took Paragon 1.0 and replaced auto-allocation with manual (+ added stuff like movement speed,…). I don’t know if they can’t see the core issues, but it is pretty obvious (see trillion posts on Battle.new forums or fan sites) that the main problem is main-stat and skill-weapon damage.
    The question is, where do you put your newly gained paragon point? Of course you will spend it on DMG (main stat, crit ch., crit dmg) because it is the most effective thing you can do. That is so obvious. Where is the “customization” part in this?
    We will hear more info on Blizzcon, but I am pretty sceptical about their “fixes and features” (just look on how they presented loot 2.0, …yeah, people loves high numbers, so our new weapon must be like 3k DMG, wow, how awesome is that? even if the legendary stat-stick is just plain boring).
    So, they presented new class, showed us new act, added features which were cut from D3 beta, stripped down some old band-aids and added new band-aids without even looking on the core issues. And it took them 1+ year to do that (High quality right? Awesome!).

  16. I can see the Paragon points being used to balance out a character if they are low on a particular stat. But ultimately I dare say they’ll end up as Vitality.

    It is actually confirmed that a level 1 character gets the points or a level 1 paragon character gets the points (iow, you get the points once you hit L60 P1)? I heard them say level 1 but I wonder if they meant level 1 paragon.

  17. QUOTE

    I can see the Paragon points being used to balance out a character if they are low on a particular stat. But ultimately I dare say they'll end up as Vitality.
    
    It is actually confirmed that a level 1 character gets the points or a level 1 paragon character gets the points (iow, you get the points once you hit L60 P1)? I heard them say level 1 but I wonder if they meant level 1 paragon.

    Vitality in Hardcore. Probably run/walk in softcore..

  18. Are people really complaining about the new paragon system and giving the ability to distribute points ? REALLY ? I give up…Blizzard i would feel sorry for you, but you got money, im sure you can take care of the hate…Keep bringing the amazing patches.

    • Yes, assigning our own stats should be in the game. Not being able to do so while leveling, and having to wait on the Paragon System leaves a bit to be desired.

      Also, having the ability to assign stat points in D3 is pretty much meaningless unless the core systems are changed. In a world where 400+ primary stat spawns on items and only +primary stat, attack speed, CC%, CD%, Vit, and Resist All matter, the paltry amount of stat points Blizzard will allow us to assign via Paragon is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. In other words, Blizzard is still sticking to the philosophy that we are all too stupid to assign our own stat points and thus are trying to shove a dumbed-down placebo down our throats in hopes we won’t notice we still can’t really empower (or screw up) our characters.

  19. Hyped.
    As.
    ****.

    Honestly.

  20. I don’t know. I guess I’ll buy RoS anyway, whatever.
    Will D3C and RoS characters be able to play together in the same game (I’d guess not, but the big patch will hit before RoS) ? In D2 you chose classic or expansion and no interaction was possible, mechanics and even items were different.
    Book of Tyrael looks good though.
    captcha: spend time

  21. From the screen shots the bonuses seems too low I hope they buff it because it looks boring in it’s current state

    • well obviously:
      – they have everywhere 50 points max
      – they have max of stats (e.g. they want to be max crit chance from paragon to be 10)
      => it will give you how big “steps” per point spend are.

      while it will be slow later, they sure do not want you to not have any stat to spend your paragon points on…well, it all depends on how many points we will get per level…

      math is hard if you don’t have couple of important variables defined yet 🙂 we will see more after blizcon, i hope..

    • Part of the issue is you’re comparing the (potential) 50% CHD THEN to the 50% NOW, which is a mistake. It is most likely (as screenshots have evidenced) they are planning on nerfing the offensive stats again (or possibly just CHD/crit). For example, the 50% CHD you get from paragon 2.0 could equate to 150% or 100% now, which makes it look a LOT more powerful.

  22. i tell ya they are trying to lure me back. i am really liking the changes being discussed and i may just have to make my return next year when the xpac hits

  23. These changes make me even more firm in my belief that the level cap should be much higher than 60. The potential power gap between lvl60 characters is only going to get more ridiculous. The game really needs a way to make sure that a char doing 50K DPS isn’t being grouped with a char doing 500K DPS.

  24. Anyone else think this new Paragon system is quite similar to Borderlands 2’s badass tokens?

  25. Skill Points :

    INT +5
    STR +5
    DEX +5
    VIT +5

    Attack :

    Attk Speed +0,2%
    CC +0,2%
    DCC +1%
    Cooldown Reduction +0,2% (cooldown is speeded up)

    Defense :

    Health +0,5%
    Magic Res +5
    Armor +0,5%
    Dodge +0,2%

    Utility :

    Movement Speed +0,5%
    Gold earned +1
    Pick Up Radius increase (no idea of the value

  26. QUOTE

    Skill Points :
    
        INT +5
        STR +5
        DEX +5
        VIT +5
    
    Attack :
    
        Attk Speed +0,2%
        CC +0,2%
        DCC +1%
        Cooldown Reduction +0,2% (cooldown is speeded up)
    
    Defense :
    
        Health +0,5%
        Magic Res +5
        Armor +0,5%
        Dodge +0,2%
    
    Utility :
    
        Movement Speed +0,5%
        Gold earned +1
        Pick Up Radius increase (no idea of the value
    There are no Gold earned +1, it's actually just Pick Up radius +1.
    Well, thats what 
    JudgeHype (in French)

    says.

  27. I think we all agree that maxing Movement Speed has #1 priority.
    Closely followed by Pickup radius.

    And since my wizard is an all-out glass cannon, chance to dodge also sounds like a very nice stat to put my points.
    If nothing changes between now and release (HAHA!), we can assign 16+50 points. That means Paragon 800 if you want all the max bonuses.

    They should rename it to Digital Crack 2.0

  28. It seems you have one point per tab (remaining points are displayed for each tabs). So plvl 200 allows to max out all.

  29. QUOTE

    It seems you have one point per tab (remaining points are displayed for each tabs). So plvl 200 allows to max out all.

    Oh I didn’t notice that.

  30. This was a feature I liked with D1, that you could max out all skills and stat (though you had to not max out chain lightning for it to work).

  31. I wonder; if i allocate paragon points and then my character dies, will I loose those points on every character? If so, would i have the choice which points gonna be taken?

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