Diablo 3 Melee Monster Range = Extensive


Site regular MauriceBastard made a post in our forums, in which he pointed out that monsters in Diablo III have considerably more reach on their melee attacks than you might expect. If you run up near a slow enemy like a zombie or a skeleton, and then run away, you can be 10 or 15 (or more) yards away and still get hit by their slow swing.

MaBa made a video that showed it off repeatedly, so the effect was clear for even non-beta testrs. Less clear was the cause. Is this a bug, a sign of latency, or a feature? Feature, according to Bashiok.

It’s intentional. We don’t want a game where the most effective way to play is to dodge in and out of enemy attacks. It’s not that difficult to do, and it’s just not a very fun way to play. “Most effective” and “not fun” just can’t be in the same sentence when describing part of the game. We want combat to be based on use of abilities, putting thought into builds, building up offensive and defensive stats, etc. Skill is absolutely a part of all of the systems you’ll use, and kiting can be too, but it’d be ridiculous if you could avoid all of the systems that make the game the game because you can time dodges of enemy attacks and negate every other factor.

Also think about just running past enemies to rush through an area and never being hit. Anyone looking to rush would love it! Which is why it’s not a good idea from a design perspective. ūüôā It’s not something we’ll be changing.

I guess that answers that question, then. Do you guys approve? Not including this feature would mean that players with good connections would have a huge inherent advantage in play. It could be partially overcome by giving monsters a much faster swing, or by making them start to attack much sooner after contact, but that would look weird for slow enemies. Then again, getting hit by a zombie that’s half a screen away looks kind of weird too.

Click through to see this effect repeatedly demonstrated in a video.

Tagged As: | Categories: Blizzard People, Blue Posts, Diablo 3, Monsters

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  1. 10 or 15 yard melee range is moronic.

    • You not reading the explanation is rather more moronic.

      • Remember: one can’t criticize dumb design decisions if they’re done on purpose.

      • I read it and its still moronic

        • it troubles me that so many people have so much trouble understanding such a simple concept. if you’re in melee range when a monster begins his attack animation, you will be hit. diablo 1 is the exact same way. whether it looks realistic or not is irrelevant because it’s a game. game mechanics exist so that the creators of the game can somewhat control how the game is played. they consider running out of melee range during every attack to be a form of griefing the system, and i pretty much agree with that

          • Although I respect the argument made here, I have to disagree. A¬†better mechanic¬†would not be to have melee ranges that are so wide (they should still be wide enough), but to have faster attack animations and have the hits register quicker. To me, it makes sense to have different monsters have different attack speeds that do different levels of damage. If you run into a slow hulking monster that does a ton of damage, why should you restrict a player from getting a few quick hits in before running away from an attack? isn’t that just skill and strategy? Conversely, it’s like saying that the only way to kill a slow, hulking monster that does a ton of damage is by using ranged attacks since any melee character¬†would just get slaughtered trying to get close range.

      • I’m not sure what’s more sad. You never had the pleasure of experiencing a well made action rpg where monsters’ attack animation are not just for show but meaningful in the actual game play (for aiming and for dodging)… or that you’re actually buying that garbage explanation.
        It SHOULD be easy to dodge a SLOW attacking enemy.¬† If they want to make enemies harder to dodge, they should give them faster attack animations…¬† gameplay and DEPTH opportunity are lost in this LAZY implementation.

        • such as ? … … … ?
          yeah, i can’t think of any either

          • I’m curious as well.¬† I’m sure there are many games with a smaller hit radius, but a chance to hit is often triggered by the attack event, or a frame of the attack animation.
            The resource demand in having a chance to hit triggered depending on both the number of frames in the attack animation, as well as the proximity of the player, seems like too much to have running for every enemy.¬†¬† I guess you’d need something like

            Fe:number of frames in specific attack animation
            Fa:average number of frames per attack animation
            C[1-x]: constant values for balance
            D: distance to player
            Opportunity to hit = ((Fa + C1) / Fe) * (C2 / D^C3)
            if(Opportunity > C4){ hit() };
             
            That’s a lot of superfluous math, compared to:
            D: distance to player (yards)
            if(D < 10){ hit() };

      • I don’t really care, on hardcore inferno you will need skill to dodge bosses. If 100% hit rate from half screen away kills your toon I bet you’ll just laugh it off like a sir.

      • those sounded rather like an excuse…not explanation.

    • If¬†a monster’s¬†reaction time (not its attack rate)¬†is faster than¬†its combat animations, that’s a dumb-looking mismatch between the display and the combat that should be easy to fix, it seems. If its reach is obviously longer than its limbs, that’s just dumb.

      • “easy to fix” and easy to balance are totally different things though.
        Making a game that looks good is far simpler than making one that’s fun…¬† it’s not an easy thing to figure out by any means, especially when you have both melee and ranged classes.¬† Blizzard may have tried many possible alternatives, and found they were too unfair to certain classes.

        • I think the game already works the way it’s supposed to. I think the combat is exactly what it’s supposed to be. Isn’t it as simple as animation that looks goofy because it doesn’t reflect the actuality of combat? Aren’t the monsters just moving faster than they appear to be moving?

          And isn’t that an easy fix?

    • You cant say that the Monsters Melee Range is 10-15 yards, you need to be like 1-2 yards away to make the monster start its attack, the monster stops attacking after you leave melee range. The dude in the video has to keep running next to the monster to make it swing again. If you get that close to a melee monster, then expect to get hit.¬†

    • As¬†far as I understand it, mobs you are out of melee range of won¬īt be able to attack you, when you vault or run by them, whereas if you run or vault within melee range, then a performed hit will be sent no matter how fast you run or vault by them. I really like this change, because this only means that skill comes into play.

    • Did some testing, and yes, if you move away from a monster as it begins its attack animation, you’re likely to get hit…
      РBut РIf you hit it with a knockback attack or hard enough to force a recoil, the attack will never connect. 
      Likewise, if you get hit by a knockback, you won’t get hit by other monsters that have started their attack.

  2. That’s so dumb. Honestly, just look at it. It makes no sense from any point of view to see an enemy swing, miss you, and still take damage from it. If it were a lag issue it would be one thing, but to be intentionally designed that way shows a lack of coherent design philosophy. If they don’t want people using tactics during combat, they should find a way to do so that doesn’t make it look like you’re playing over a dial-up connection.

    • So you’d be totally satisfied if they had a small particle of mud come from the zombie’s hand, so that you can say you took damage from the mud?
       
      It’s not an issue of design philosophy at all.¬† It’s an issue of art direction possibly.¬† They could easily add minor graphics to give every enemy a ranged attack, but they wanted to have fun and include common monster archetypes.
       
      It makes perfect sense from the point of view that only getting hit up close would create a tremendous class imbalance, and make it ridiculously easy to run through levels.

      • How about having a few monster types run faster than you?

        I think it should be possible to run through a pack of zombies without getting hit.  

  3. moronic? it’s intended! ūüôā

  4. i love how one of the games features is designed to remove skill as an option

    • This isn’t Mortal Combat. You can still kite perfectly fine, just don’t get in melee range. WoW doesn’t allow you to melee-dodge either, so what? That’s not where the devs want to focus “skill”. If that’s where YOU want to focus your skill, play Mortal Combat, simple enough.

      • In Punch-Out you could hit select between rounds to restore Mac’s health.

      • so the ability to dodge attacks should only be used in mortal kombat type of games?

        • We’re talking about melee attacks here. You can still dodge many spell based/special attacks, as intended.¬† Game balanced with a skill to dodge basic melee attacks is Mortal Kombat, not Diablo.
           
           

          • i still think in melee combat i would want to avoid being hit in the face if possible. to me the monk seems the type to jump in and out of combat, dodgeing all the enemy throws at him and striking when the opportunity presents itself.

            anyway i understand how these games play, it also makes more sense now why they gave the barb and monk that 30% bonus, i just think 15 yards (or more) is a bit much. whats the point of escape spells if you can only escape everything after the first attack?   

      • “WoW doesn‚Äôt allow you to melee-dodge either, so what?”
         
        You don’t say.¬† How about that. ūüėÜ

      • the player is not in melee range¬†
        well, he kinda is, considering how¬†they¬†extended¬†melee range to be so far¬† ūüėÄ

      • “Don’t get in melee range”? Have you ever played an ARPG?

      • why the hell do¬†WOW features exist in D3 ??!!?!?!?? -_-

      • ‘ just don‚Äôt get in melee range.’. Ohh, ok. I will call the Barb and the Monk and warn them to strike from a distance.

        That’s a cheap excuse from a dev perspective. That’s why they increased dmg reduction for the barb and the monk by 30% or something like that because they couldn’t balance it in later difficulties and it was too late to go back to the drawing board. I agree with Apocalypse that they are taking SOME of the skill required to play and if I wanted to play WoW where position is almost never a factor i would but this is Diablo and I think that position of the character should be a major element.

      • Yea man, mmo balance = arpg balance. So close from it.

  5. It’s very apparent in the Skeleton King fight. As a Demon Hunter vaulting away from his teleport->swipe you still get hit even if you’re half a screen away when the animation begins. It’s such bullshit.

  6. Meh. Hitbox fatness/accuracy is a far bigger problem. You can still kite with this system, you just get less margin of error – i.e. it takes away a player skill option, but makes other player skill options far more important.

    But I do think there should still be heavy melee attacks that are telegraphed so they can be manually dodged. Shouldn’t be hard to make either, just take a random telegraphable ranged attack code and assign it to a melee animation.

    • Fortunately, those do exist already.¬† Dark Berzerkers (seen in the original gameplay video) have one, and likely other creatures as well.

      • Those are actually shown in some of the recent skill vids; the same hulking monsters taking huge swings and missing and then getting their clubs stuck in the ground. So it’s still in the game, in some form at least.

        • Then I am totally at peace with this change. Honestly, PoE beta really opened my eyes as to what the power of kiting truly is. I honestly never noticed how absurdly OP it was while playing other ARPGs until after I saw developers struggle with class balance changes as a direct result of “if you are a ranged player, you are invincible if you are not an idiot.”

          Now, I do wish that instead of raging about this (it makes kiting harder and more important, in my book that means more skill required) the complaints would be directed to the actual player skill interfering problem of ridiculous hitboxes that kill attempts at precise aiming in packs.

          • i kinda agree, this actually means “don’t come so goddamn close” even when¬†maneuvering around monsters;
            one explanation of this is, I guess, the general speed advantage of player over monster, which is in my opinion an arguable feature¬†unfortunately¬†necessitated by the goal of making a game feel hectic and the player bad ass. i happen to play D1 and D1 right now after several years of absence, and I am just¬†astound¬†how hectic D2 is due to the character’s movement speed, u can basically run away from everything easily, whereas in D1, well.. you¬†couldn’t¬†run, which instantly gives combat more complexity and especially advanced planning and tactics development is a must…

  7. ugh….. ¬†This is the first thing I’ve seen that actually gave me serious doubts about how much I’ll like it.

    It looks like it’s going to always feel like you are lagging out on an mmo–that is not a good feeling at all. ¬†Melee is ruined if position doesn’t matter. ¬†Ranged is pretty spoiled too if staying at range doesn’t actually help you.

    • you have to be in melee range in the first place

      • Right, but a stock tactic for quick ranged vs slow melee is dance in, draw the slow attack, back of and counter safely.

        If they don’t want that to work…fine. ¬†(well not ‘fine’ with me, but it’s their game) ¬†But the way to do that is make the attacks really fast. ¬†Or make the attack a crazy tentacle that reaches out an hits you, or give them ranged attacks—I mean VISIBLY ranged attacks.

        A big part of why I dislike this clumsy solution is that it just looks like the game is glitching out. ¬†Aside from the buggy appearance, there is the fact that when you have lots of stuff on the screen (which it appears is going to be often) then it’s going to be hard to tell what’s going on–hard to notice that you are being damaged by things that don’t look like they are near you.

        I’ll admit it’s not a huge thing–it’s just something that makes the game feel off. ¬†Well I’m guessing on D3 since I still haven’t got beta, but that’s sure what it did in WoW. ¬†But D3 faces a LOT more competition ¬† for gaming time than D2 did, so there’s less room for any ‘off notes’ than there used to be.

        • Under most circumstances i would agree with you that if it looks like it missed you, damage shouldn’t be counted. But from playing the beta it doesn’t feel odd or wrong to get hit, you know your going to get hit and you compensate and it feels good. It feels fair, and the reason behind it seems sound enough: They don’t want you to expect or even attempt to not ever get hit. I hope the game doesn’t feel TOO off for you, but i just wanted to say that for someone like me that agrees with you in theory that i’ve played the game a bit and in my opinion you need’nt be too worried.

  8. if you don’t like not being able to kite, grow a pair and kill the damn monster like your supposed to

    • Possibly the dumbest response you could possibly have.

      So they buffed barbs and monks with a 20% damage reduction to all damage because they’re in melee range. And according to you, a wizard and demon hunter should just stand in the front like an idiot and get slammed with full damage while plinking away with an arrow or a spell. Genius.

      This isn’t about being able to kite and I still fail to believe that this is intentional. I don’t think that at all.
      It looks, feels, and plays like lag, because it probably is. I honestly do not believe Bashiok on this one. It doesn’t make sense.¬†

  9. Yeah, I think it’s a bit dumb too. With this, we can as well have that all the monsters visible on the screen can hit you this way whenever they please. Doesn’t make a difference really.

    • Wrong. You have to be in melee range when they begin their attack. Don’t want to get hit? Don’t be in melee range at any time. Pretty simple, really.

      • yeah, say that after dying in hard core¬† ūüėĮ

      • The second most ridiculous argument you could have for this.

        I would like you to play even the beta and not get in melee range when you’re in a tight corridor surrounded by skeletal summoners who summon them right at your feet and you’re completely surrounded. Or a pack of teleporting unburied. Or any of the summoning pillars, like in the royal crypt. Or the, y’know, skeleton king.

        “Don’t get in melee range derp!” doesn’t cut it.¬†Go play the maggot lair or arcane sanc and tell me how that works out for you.

  10. Wow, nobody else noticed this already and was frustrated by it?¬† It’s incredible that Blizzard doesn’t talk about this stuff until its clamored about on the forums. I had practically made up my mind that the game wasn’t a buy.¬† No offline mode and yet with a decent connection I thought the reason for getting hit by mobs all the time was because of lag (I’ve had GMs amazed at how different I’ve played due to lag, it can make the difference in if you enjoy the game at all).

    Are they so obtuse that they don’t realize that very real people are making purchasing decisions on this game based on beta and a lot of it because 1) Blizzard isn’t listening to player feedback, 2) they keep making changes to the game that go unexplained (like the above for example of the issue with targeting)?

    • Wow – nobody else noticed this already because it isn’t actually frustrating. If this was actually a problem, don’t you think one of the beta testers pouring hours into the game would have pointed it out already?

      I find it amazing that the majority of people writing comments on this site seem completely unable to actually read the original post and think about what it means for a second before raging. This feature just makes sense for the reasons Bash explained above. If you’re a ranged class, it is not a problem because monsters won’t start to melee you unless you get close enough to them – much closer than the radius you can still be hit in if you try to run once they start attacking. This means that you can still kite. If you’re a melee class, are you really going to be running in and out when your whole class is designed to take a beating close up and deal out tonnes of melee damage? No…

      Sorry this is ¬†such a ranty post, it just makes me sad that people don’t think ūüôĀ¬†

      • I noticed it when i got beta access a couple months ago. It actually is very annoying, but since the beta is still difficult to die on and you don’t really “feel” the severity of getting hit by some really slow but powerful melee attack that you clearly dodged but still connects 10 yards out of its visible range it really doesn’t matter. Perhaps this was part of the reasoning behind damage reduction in monk and barb.

        I think the design for this and hitboxes/targetting are pretty awful and annoying, BUT I don’t think any are going to be¬†game-breaking¬†or really ruin ¬†the experience alltogether. It’s design features like this that just make me shake my head and worry about what inferno is going to be like for any hardcore player.
         

      • it was pointed out a long time ago

        and it really makes me sad that people think that just¬†because¬†they haven’t read it, it means it hasn’t been reported¬†

      • I reported on this the first time I played Beta and was fairly miffed about it.¬† I think it was mainly put in so that people with slower connections could still be competitive in PvP.¬† Luckily Torchlight 2 allows you to dodge as normal.¬† It feels much more responsive overall than D3.
         
        That being said, I can get over this, will buy D3 and will enjoy playing it.

      • I’d rather not spell it out but you missed my point.
        Do I think the implementation and idea behind it is okay? Hells yeah.  It makes sense that they would not like players to avoid damage.  Do I think they could do it more neatly. Definitely so.
        But that’s besides my point.¬† Are you in the beta?¬† Vesus the SK, when he teleports, you can literally have your char running across the room and still get hit!¬† I was okay with it but I chalked it up to lag and poor netcode.¬† What do you know, its a fucking feature of the game.¬† How can anyone else new to the game and unawares of this not think its lag or poor coding?¬† If you looked at the game with a critical eye, after 6-7 years of development this is what they’ve produced?
        Buts its actually intentional but look how close to the launch someone’s finally revealed that.¬† That’s what’s irking me.

  11. The OP must be new to loot dropping ARPG’s or anyone else complaining.¬†

  12. If this is acceptable, then make it also work the other way around. That is, if one of those stupid gimmicky ass mobs (like the treasure goblins) starts running away and we’ve already swung the hit will register.
     

  13. I really don’t see the big deal.¬† It’s intentional and for an arguably good reason.¬†¬†
     
    This only happens in melee range and when trying to run away right?  And does it only effect the one swing as you try to run away or more swings?  As long as its just one swing, I can see the reasoning.   It would not be a fun game if the one tactic to beat shit is constantly running in and out.   Just like constantly jumping around in an FPS is not fun at all. 

  14. Enemies interping you to death on HC will be pretty funny.

  15. I don’t understand why people are surprised to see this. D2 had a similar mechanic, I assume for the same reasons.

    • D2 melee monsters don’t hit you from 5 feet away.

      • Ofcourse they do. Make a new char and run around a zombie in blood moor. It’s just a bit less noticable as the zombie attack is quite faster in d2 than in d3.

        • It’s less noticeable in D2 because they don’t melee you from half a screen away like in D3. In D2 you can rush past groups of monsters and even duck and weave through groups and not get hit. That’s literally impossible in D3.

          • Sorry but defending this from the point of view that D2 is a solution despite the fact that D2 also suffers/ed from insane degree’s of kiting = fail!

          • The main reason it’s less noticeable in D2 is because the difference in movement speed between player and monsters were much bigger there. The hit range may have been shorter as well though, but I don’t think so.
             
            There’s still a maximum hit range in D3. If you watch the video you’ll see it. With enough increased movement speed from items and skills you’ll be able to evade monsters more easily. Without this system, you could run around in Inferno as a level 1 Barb and dodge every melee monster.

      • The latency in D2 could be very different than what we have now in beta server. I’m around 200-300ms latency which really enhances this kind of effect. You think you are far away from the monster but in fact you are still in range for the attack.

      • “D2 melee monsters don‚Äôt hit you from 5 feet away.”

        http://youtu.be/WsuJXNeLm-4?hd=1

        OOOPS.

    • There were two worlds of difference in how it worked in D2.

      1. It felt normal. I know that’s a rather nebulous response, but it’s true: it felt like it belonged in the game and it didn’t stick out like a sore thumb.

      2. Both you and the monster could miss. That makes a massive difference.

      I’m actually in favor of no misses in Diablo III. I think that was a good move. But this is not, however, I don’t believe it’s intentional.

      As Flux pointed out, they show players moving away from slow-moving monsters to avoid a blow. You can do this with some mobs in the beta. This alone is proof for me that Bashiok is wrong.

      Go up to an unburied, let them start their swing, vault away. You won’t take damage if you time it right.¬†

      • There’s still a maximum distance from where monsters can hit you. This is obvious in the video that’s linked in the article, since the zombie didn’t always hit the WD. Vault and other movement skills were probably designed to take you out of this range, so that they can be used to evade hits. This is one of their main functions, so this makes sense. However, I think Vault actually makes you invincible for its duration. You can still get hit during Leap though if you time it wrong.
         
        Also, AoE attacks, like the explosion of Grotesques and the slam attack of the Unburied (at least I think it’s an AoE) can still be dodged easily, which is probably why you think the Unburied is an exception. Their 2 hit single-target combo however behaves like the single-target attack of every other enemy.

  16. D2 had the same thing, I don’t see an issue with this. Nubs will be nubs.¬†

  17. God damn it Blizzard, can’t you go one week anymore without telling me something that pisses me off about this game.¬† I’m TRYING to love the game but you seem to wanna make that so hard! ARGH!

    Bash has said many dumb things over the years but this might be the dumbest of them all.  Removing players skill as an intentional design feature.  Brilliant.

    • I don’t know, imo the no. 1 “Stupid thing Blizzard said about D3” is “Repetition isn’t the cause of Boredom” argument. But hey, we still have an almost whole year ahead of us, maybe they’ll top themselves of!

    • Don¬īt worry about it. This feature will make the game require more skill to vault or run¬†past monsters at least in pvm. That is a good thing right? ūüôā

  18. This doesn’t bother me in the slightest.¬† Ranged characters can still kite just fine, the mob only hits you if you are in melee range so that it’s attack animation actually starts.¬† It’s not like it attacks you if you’re halfway across the screen and never get close to the mob in the first place.¬† I’ve been in the beta since November and I never even noticed this ‘problem’ since I’ve been having too much fun playing the game to really notice something as silly as this.

  19. This is retarded, wtf ūüė°

  20. This is beyond stupidity. There should be unavoidable attacks (whose animations are instant/extremely fast) and avoidable attacks, with slower animations. This current system is just sloppy.

  21. So what is the point of skills like vault? i used it a few times, vault away and still get hit. The range is too far reach for any real range combat. Basically if you can see the monster, u need to start running as a DH, to do kiting perfectly.

    • If you watch the vid, you see plenty of times when he runs in and back out without being hit or swung at, depending on the monster’s awareness or where it is in its attack animation. The distant hit only takes effect if you are in melee range when the attack animation starts.

      Movement skills like Vault take you through enemies so fast that they can’t even start their attack motion, so it can be used to pass by without taking attacks or hits, for the most part.

  22. Personally I feel there should be a penalty if you run into melee range of a zombie, I’m sure people would prefer if they could simply constantly circle-strafe bosses for easy wins but such a feature might not be so good in D3

  23. Blizzard’s¬†explanation¬†makes sense so I don’t mine the idea, but I think the length that it is currently set at is a little extreme! ¬†The video makes it look completely¬†ridiculous, so¬†I hope they cut the distance down a little!

  24. I don’t think I buy the explanation. ¬†I think this is something they had to do to guarantee their consistent ‘user experience’ with the online connection requirement and making allowances for lags. ¬†In other words, it’s reminiscent of mmo behavior because they have set themselves up to deal with the same issue mmo’s face.

  25. I like this, to be honest, diablo 2 was too easy,the only real way to make it a challenge was getting a hardcore character, I hope they make D3 chanllenging without  having to play HC.

    • built-in 100 ping will also help with that whole challenging thing

      • How is 100 ping bad?, I rarely feel any difference with 40 ping or 100, now if it goes up to 180 that gets a bit¬†annoying, based on a MOBA (dota/ league of legends) point of perspective. I’m not sure how badly 100 ping would impact a game like diablo.

  26. The thing is, when the monster starts its attack, the player IS in range. It’s not like melee attacks can reach you from afar; the damage just happens at the end of the animation.

  27. This is a ridiculous way to add difficulty. It would have been much better to just have two sets of melee enemies, ones with slow but brutal attacks that you can dodge if you set your mind to it, and faster versions that rush up to you or switch to ranged attacks if you kite them so that non-evasion-based defensive measures become necessary.

    And simply saying “you’re getting hit because you were in the monster’s range when it started the attack” doesn’t work either. If you’re visibly outside the monster’s range there’s no reason you should be getting hit. That doesn’t mean you should always be able to dodge either. As I said above there are ways to ensure that certain enemies still hit you, without making it look like a glitch.

    • They already have that version too…. You can see in some vid that there is some hulking monster that winding up its attack and you can dodge that one just fine

  28. Truly the most pathetic thing I’ve ever seen done ‘intentionally’. I noticed some of this nonsense when I was playing the beta too. I assumed it was lag, though we had videos of this idiocy since friends and family. So Blizzards official stance is to make the game more fun by simulating latency problems? lol. If they don’t want you avoiding melee attacks, why not make it turn based and forgot about the ‘action’ part of ARPG? Just another reason why this game will never be best in class like D2 was.

  29. It would be interesting how this might compare to other games such as Torchlight, Path of Exile, or even Grim Dawn in practice. In D2 I remember this happening but not quite at that length.

    That said, I would hope people wouldn’t be trying to taunt monsters like in the video haha, just kill ’em all! As Flux stated, it only happens if a monster starts it’s hit animation which is easily identifiable.

    One thing I do see now is that when damage is dealt to an object, it flashes white briefly. Is this a feature that is capable of being toggled on/off? -No beta key for me ūüėź

    • I played TL 2 at the Runic offices this November and the hit system is completely different than D3.¬† If you dodge out of the way of a melee attack it does not hit you.¬† You are actually expected to dodge out of many of the attacks or they will kill you.
       
      The main difference is that your computer controls the monsters closest to you (it is peer to peer). That means you will have almost no lag for the monsters next to you.  Blizzard had to design D3 so that people could play PvP with varying pings.  That means that they had to limit players ability to dodge and make the D3 combat system more MMOlike.  If Blizzard gave clients enough power to reliably dodge based on positioning, people would be able to get into an asynchronous state with the server (or other players) and have an advantage.
       
      In D3, you can still use abilities like Diamond skin to dodge attacks.

  30. What are you guys whining about ? I think this is a smart idea , I would rather have defensive abilities to use on my Barbarian or Monk and survive the hits than running around because I can get into melee only for a split second to get my hit in and if I stay any longer I will be annihilated , Barbarian and Monk are Melee classes and I would hate having to run around instead of playing my class while the Demon Hunter , Wizard and Witch Doctor get to use their skills and have fun , if anything this is good news to Monks and Barbarians , it means the game is balanced around having your character survive some damage when using the proper skills.
     

    • smart idea, then you never played d1 or d2 I assume.

      • I played D2 for a very long time and I think the game isn’t balanced at all , specially in melee.

        I have been playing World of Warcraft for a very long time aswell( Don’t start flaming me or the game for that) , but from all the balancing that I have seen done in World of Warcraft , I mostly trust the changes done to the game and I know that it is to give us a better experience , again we are talking about Blizzard here and they have been known to admit when they do something wrong and the system doesn’t work , they will go to extremes to fix it , that has been shown in all the patches of wow from Class balance , to bosses balance to even loot balance.
         
        I trust blizzard and I know this is for a better gaming experience , if it isn’t and people do continue to protest then I am sure blizzard will change the system and change it to the way people want it , but let’s not start judging before even trying this system in actual game where it matters , Hell and Inferno.

        • If a monster swings at you and hits you from 15 yards away; even though his attack missed, the game is broken; and needs fixed.

  31. This is an outrage and completely unnecessary.

    Imagine this in MULTIPLAYER. I can see it now, I try and dodge a Barbarian smash using the demon hunter Valut skill, only to die 15 yards away after landing from my vault. 

    BOYCOTT THIS TERRIBLE MECHANIC! 

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4427663050?page=9#172 ūüė° ¬†

  32. this is terrible news.

  33. Good thing Blizzard isn’t in the business of making zombie movies… nobody would survive.

  34. Seems like a shitty and lazy solution to me.¬† And, again with the “that’s not fun” comment.¬† Getting pretty sick of the “play it your way” group telling me what I think is fun.¬† Here’s a thought: design a mechanic that doesn’t look stupid, then let me play how I want.

  35. This game was a buy for me until I saw this video, hopefully it is fixed soon after launch, but right now I kind of wish I didn’t pre-order..

    Also I beat Diablo 1 in 1996, bought D2 and it’s expansion the day they both came out, and have frequently played them over the last 13 years.

    This is not cool, at all; anyone that says well blah blah blah it’s okay in WoW; this is not WoW and it shouldn’t be designed based on what WoW is.¬†

  36. Don’t buy the game then, period. A lot of the news articles on this site are full of whiney comments about how they’re not sure if they’ll buy the game and their disappointment with Blizzard decisions. News flash, nobody gives a s**t. I’m sure there will be A LOT of people playing the game come release without a care in the world for your worries about the game. Sure comments are there to share your oppinion but often what kills games are the communities and their influences on peoples attitude towards the game. Arenajunkies is just one example, people moaning patch after patch about nerfs and classes being OP, its quite pathetic.

  37. I don’t see any problem with this functionality. If you don’t want to get hit by melee monsters, don’t get into melee range. The only issue is that some attack animations are a bit too slow, like seen here, which creates a visual disconnect. It doesn’t actually impact gameplay though once you figure out that you can’t just dodge and weave away from damage when you get too close.

    • would make a hell of a lot more sense if they just cancel the animation when it misses like that instead of still having it hit you

  38. I’ve noticed it too but the explanation sounds perfectly reasonably to me.¬† If it was more realistic I would be cheesy and run through packs if I didn’t want to fight them.

  39. Is this part of the engrossing combat Jay kept talking about?
    Here’s a revolutionary idea to fix Bashiok’s “problem”, instead of adding in unfair game mechanics to grief the player, why not actually properly balance the game by including fast hitting monsters you can’t just run away from?

  40. I am confused (and I don’t have a beta key :/ )

    Does this apply to all attacks (that would be lame) or only to “fast” melee attacks. What I mean, from the vids I have seen the skeleton king has a slow attack animation (that really hits hard) and a fast one (“normal attack”). If you can dodge the former, but not the latter, then I think it is a good mechanic. If you cannot dodge both (i.e. even if i run/teleport away from the very slow hard hitting attack animation I get hit) it seems rather bad design to me: then the slow animations are misguiding the player.

  41. I really dislike this. Not necessarily the idea, because I understand having it perfect would make dodging extremely trivial, but it looks completely silly to be hit from so far away. I experimented a bit in Diablo 2, and it’s really nothing as extreme as this. An easy fix would be to just make sure there’s some sort of max range the monster can still hit you in; but, in all seriousness, I think it needs to be tackled from a deeper design perspective. I am not in the Diablo 3 beta though, so I have no idea how noticeable this is when you’re not trying to reproduce it.

  42. I plan on playing a Monk, I like dodging in and out of melee range, and I support this decision. Those arguing that it is unrealistic to be hit from range are overlooking the fact that it is unrealistic to run right up to someone who wants to kill you without a fist, sword, mandible, whatever, greeting you the instant you come into range. The mobs are handicapped by the fact that they can’t begin attacking until the player is already within reach. I imagine the network code and system resources required to simulate preemptive attacks would make the game completely unplayable, and I’m not even sure if it is possible. Despite the visual delay, this decision makes the game more realistic, not less.

  43. One problem is Wizard spells like Frost Nova, Wave of Force, and Explosive Blast won’t be much fun in Inferno as they are inherently most effective at close range.¬†For Frost Nova, you’d normally want to run up close to freeze as many enemies as possible. Instead, you’d have to either:

    1-Only use it to freeze the first 1-2 monsters that get almost too close (not fun). Don’t attack them because¬†the rest of the mob is right behind and advancing.

    2-Make damn sure the 5+ monsters you up-close freeze are on their last health point so you can kill them all in the 3 second freeze duration (impossible).

    3-Only use it to up-close freeze a ton of monsters, but don’t attack or do anything fun. Just run the hell away since the instant they thaw out, you’re dead.¬†Also, pray to god you hit the frost Nova hotkey before any one of the 5+ enemies attack. On second thought…

    4-Don’t use these types of spells in Inferno.

    Normally, you would weave in and out of enemy range for the best position to cast. But now, you will be “premature ejaculating” your nova type skills on the first sign of trouble.
     

  44. As someone with an old PC I really dislike this. My internet isn’t something hot either and this feature really hinders my playing experience. Because my computer is slow to process the information I keep getting swarmed and dying. I thought Blizzard wants that their games could play on old computers but that’s impossible in my case. Especially because of this mechanic.

    I would to see a poll on this subject to find out what’s the consensus about it.

  45. I think I read most comments down to about half down this page and still see people thinking inside the box (edit: at course, I’m at the top now lol), a common problem here. Who here bought D1 knew as much as we do about D3? Also we couldn’t draw comparisons and guess what, it was great. There was a lot of nonsense in D2 but it was great too. D3 far and large with or without this ‘feature’ is cool. You guys are getting to close to the art to see its beauty. Step back a bit guys and enjoy it for what it is.

    These developers are answering questions that they would never have had to in the past so at course we can knit-pick the hell outta them. But where is this going?

  46. A few players are worried that monsters can hit you half a screen away. This however is untrue. Monsters will only start swinging at you when your in melee range, not when ur 10-15 yards away. They only get to finish their swing once you get in melee range. 
    I also believe that skills like vault do allow you to dodge this. 

  47. 10-15 feet seems very long for a melee attack? Whats the range on a frost nova for example?
    I remember dodge-microing hell Hephasto countless times, he was a little do easy to micro but I still enjoyed that it was atleast possible.

  48. This looks odd, specially if you cannot dodge big bosses attacks. Anyway have to test it myself first.
     
    Easy solution for slow moving hit animations would be simply instead having hit at start of animation, time it to happen middle of animation. Problem solved.

  49. Ranged class can still kite monster just fine.  It seems like some people misunderstand that monster can just hit you from 15 yard away.

  50. It is simple consequence of being able to run faster than animation,, if you think you can turn from someone swinging sword and just run you would be dead. You have vaults, teleport, dodge/block etc. to actually dodges attack plus Marked attack like exploding monsters.
    So they need either slow you down, which will take the edge of action/ dynamic play, or make them attack faster which in turn make them great DPS, choose your pick. 

  51. So many whiners, why am I not surprise *rolls eyes*

  52. This is my only dislike out of everything I know about D3 so far, very disappointed with this broken mechanism.

  53. Faster attack animations will kinda solve the issue, but considering that monsters will get faster and faster as we go through the difficulties, they’d end up with an attack animation so fast it would be hard to even see.
    When you’re low on health and instinct tells you to get the hell out of there, it can be a¬†bit annoying that you take the hits, but never to a point where it’s gamebreaking.¬†
    I know it sounds corny and all that crap, but players will need to adapt to the composition of the packs they’re facing, and adjust on the fly to what is happening at any given moment. If you can’t handle extensive melee contact, your aim should be to avoid it in the first place. Some locations don’t allow much room for that, but by¬†careful positioning, you can still avoid most of it.
    Saying that it takes skill away from players is a bit silly Рa skillful player will know what to avoid in the first place and know how to deal with the situations where contact is unavoidable. 
       

  54. “This is not a Bug – it’s a feature!” was never as apropriate as it is now… GJ Blizz!

  55. All you apologists who accuse whiners of missing the point are…uh…missing the point.

    To escape the distraction of ‘just don’t enter melee range in the first place, fools’ let me compare it to ranged attacks.

    In a proper action game, a slow moving ranged shot is something to be dodged. ¬†In WoW, for example, that slow moving shot will home in on you and drill through obstacles–the point of the animation isn’t ‘here’s a threat to deal with’ its ‘here’s where the damage you are about to take came from’. ¬†And of course we must see ‘guided boring arrow’ technology which is annoying to some.

    Well, this puts slow melee attacks in that same territory. ¬†It doesn’t behave how it looks, and it’s not action style.

    Yeah you can still dodge with skills. ¬†That is stat game (WoW) dodging, not action dodging. ¬†I’m not saying it can’t be fun. ¬†I’m just saying it is a non-action element in a supposedly action game. ¬†For WoW fans obviously it’s fine. ¬†For others, maybe less so.

     

  56. Sorry, this is just excuse-making on the part of Blizzard.¬† I don’t think it is that exotic or negotiable to say that your character should be able to successfully dodge an attack that is in the backswing phase and nowhere near your character.¬† This is a huge part of Monster Hunter 3, for example, which does have online play.¬† Dragons have tells, and when you see them winding up you have to get the #$## out of the way or you are dead.¬† It is just what you’d expect and very fun.¬† To dodge out of the way at the right time and still get hit would make me want to quit the game.
     
    I suspect this is a bug they are choosing not to fix or a cludge to (as others have said) equalize varying connection speeds.
     
    Why are single player people forced to play online and suffer these design hacks again?

  57. Really hoping Blizzard fixes this one. “Designed intentionally?”, probably just bad programming; and being too lazy to fix it this close to release. But it’s an ugly oversight and needs a hot fix.

  58. this just inspired me for a certain monk build, what should i say? i like it.

  59. It seemed fairly obvious to me that “hitlag” was not going away in the full version. If I play D3 the way Blizzards wants me to play, killing everything before it touches you and not rushing areas, I don’t really notice the problem. Once I’m down to my last sliver of health, and my health potion is on cool down, and my evasive movement skill is on cool down, and my mob control skill is on cool down, and I try to manually¬†maneuver¬†out of range of being attacked and get hit and killed, it will feel SHITTY. BUT there are¬†plenty¬†of “and”‘s there, so it will be completely avoidable in Normal difficulty I bet.

    I know it’s a online only game and I’m just going to have to deal latency (mine is 50-60ms SOLID right now in d3 beta btw) but I can’t help but wonder how different Diablo 3 would feel if I could just play solo offline.

    • Makes you wonder, if you could get an honest reply, what the REAL reason is for no single player.
      * Encouraging online play for the socialization?  Hmm Рwould rather they not tell me how to enjoy my free time.
      * To reduce amount of hacking?¬† Meh – we’ve already seen some hacks.¬† Don’t think it is going away sadly.
      * To allow for server-side-only maintenance, making patches easier to deploy?  Maybe.
      * To make it more difficult to play for free using illegal copies of the game?  BINGO.
       
      I don’t blame them for wanting to be paid for their product, but I wish single player was not sacrificed in order to meet that goal.

      • @Sir_Matas
         
        ¬†Funny thing is that i know a lot of ppl that wouldn’t have bought Diablo 2 if they hadn’t experienced it beforehand… and by a lot i mean everyone i know that plays/ed Diablo 2…

  60. Let me get this straight. The argument here is that you can’t simply walk out of a monsters range of attack once it starts?
    On side says to stay out of melee (if ranged) to avoid starting the animation that causes the hit. Other side says it’s not always that simply due to environment and mobs spawning under you. ¬†Right so far?
     
    Now browsing the skills on the character tabs  all ranged characters have an active dodge skill. Demon Hunter РVault , Witch doctor- Spirit walk and Wizard РTeleport. The two melee class differ in the fact that the Barbarian is set up to absorb(and reduce) damage and the Monk has actives and passives set up to dodge attacks. Both have active cool downs to either debuff enemies damage output or reduce incoming damage taken.
     
    Blizzard clearly gave each class a way to deal with avoiding damage. Simply walking out of range has never been an option in Diablo to begin with as MalmerDK has shown.
     
    Since I don‚Äôt have access to the beta can someone show the Demon Hunter vaulting away from an attack once triggered from melee range? If you can’t dodge using a skill designed for it then we have a problem and we should complain till its fixed. I know people mentioned King leoric as having a teleport attack that hits from all over can the Demon hunter (with proper timing) dodge with vault?

    • Achilly i have recently started up a diablo 2 posion necro and yes you can walk out of a monsters attack if he already starts to attack you if you do not belive me then i ask you to go and try it in act 1 vs fallens ect or any monster and you will see that i am correct

  61. I think it makes sense, but the animation looks really bad. Since it appears to be monster dependent, they could make changes to the animation so it makes more sense. A zombie could hit you twice in its animation, for instance, the first one would damage anyone who runs near a pack, catching ranged units, and the second one would damage anyone who stays near the pack. I just want the animation to make sense.

  62. I have mixed feelings about this i see why they do this but i deffiently disagree with this if the monster has a slow attack then you should have the right to TAKE advantage of it and abuse it so you can kill the monster the best way because all it is is microing and playing with skill basicly its all just comes down to strategy which im 100% for and thats why i edge to the side agenst this… I also think by doing this you take out a lot of strategy for the melee which is EXTREMLY wrong!

  63. Bashiok is known for making completely inaccurate statements… Fingers crossed.

  64. Distancing and range are one of the top concerns in nearly all combat scenarios. In boxing, for example, a rangy fighter’s goal is to strike but maintain the range from his opponent. Ex: Frazier vs Ali. Many fighters are ‘point-strikers’ who get and get out before the slower opponent is able to counter-strike.¬† The idea that controlling range is discarded is pretty lame, and is just a way for Blizzard to take away the skill requirement of a game and balance the game around scrubs.¬†

  65. Why not just have the attack animation start sooner, such as a creature anticipating you coming closer and striking you? Then it would be a bit more realistic and fun, I think.

  66. Horrid system.¬† Fighting two Grotesques in Inferno as a Wizard, they both start the animation to burst while I’m next to them.¬† Run half the screen away only to die when they both explode.¬† Yeah, great system. ūüôĄ

  67. you should fire the guy who designed it this way. “It‚Äôs intentional. We don‚Äôt want a game where the most effective way to play is to dodge in and out of enemy attacks. It‚Äôs not that difficult to do, and it‚Äôs just not a very fun way to play.” <– what the fuck is this bullshit? is the team really that fucking lazy and laughing while trying to make this into a great game. i dont think so. i'll say it again this is complete and utter bullshit for a $60 game…..shoot the staff and hire more competent people who actually know how to play the game.. not some retards that made it for the heck of it. if this is the staff u guys hired im really disappointed fan. diablo 3 like this isnt worth shit.

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