Demonic Essence Drop Rates Are Too Low/High?


Interesting conversations of late about the Demonic Essence Drop Rates now experienced in Diablo 3. Currently the odds of a DiabloWikiDemonic Essence dropping from an elite, a DiabloWikiGobby, a golden chest, or another qualifying game event is 15% on MP0, and it increases by 10% of the previous value at each higher DiabloWikiMonster Power level, up to a maximum chance of 38.9% on MP10. This is much less of an increase (with higher MP) than monster hit points, experience rewards, etc. So does that mean DEs should drop more in line with those other scale ups? Or are DEs fundamentally different in value and function and thus scarcity?

It’s worth debating, and a Blue reply to a “make moar DEs drop!” thread raises some issues for thought.

There are some upgrades that cannont be achieved without crafting at all, i’d like demonic essences to be guaranteed when killin every single elite monster in mp10. That’d be awesome.
Lylirra: Your post is pretty interesting, because most threads I’ve seen (both here and on other Diablo fan sites) typically say that Essences drop too frequently. I’m glad you created it, since it’s generated a lot of great debate on the topic.

Couple of questions for you so I can get a bit of context for where your feedback is coming from (anyone is welcome to chime in):

  • On what MP do you typically farm?
  • Do you usually just farm casually and pick up whatever Essences you acquire along the way, or do ever go out of your way to farm Essences specifically?
  • About how many Essences do you pick up in a session?
  • Do you use those Essences immediately, or are you a player that likes to stock up?
  • When it comes to crafting, is gold the limiting factor for you or are Essences?
  • How many Essences would you like to ideally see in a farming session, and why do you feel that amount would be better than what you see currently?
  • The key issue is the fact that DEs can’t be bought, sold, traded, or even given away. They therefore require play time, and while lots of gold can buy all the other mats, and uber gear that allows for faster killing, it still takes time to build up DEs, even on MP10. (In fact, DEs are faster farmed on lower MPs, since the monster hit points scale up much higher than the DE drop rates.)

    Demonic-essence-ground2It’s very much a rich vs. poor argument as well. Players with huge bank rolls generally think DEs should drop much more often and/or be tradable. It’s only logical; if you’ve got the gold to buy all the mats and pay for all the crafts you want, then the only thing limiting your crafted item production is the fact that DEs can’t be bought or found that quickly.

    On the other end of the economic spectrum, poorer players can easily build up far more DEs than they can afford to use. Mats cost money, crafts cost money, and if your goal or play style is being good enough for say, MP2, then you don’t really need uber gear and it’s not worth it spending thousands of crafts trying to perfectly optimize each of the five crafted item slots. Even if you could afford them.

    The larger issue, and one I think Blizzard’s devs embrace with their ongoing “reduce the impact of the Auction House” design theory, is the fact that DEs are the one aspect of Diablo 3’s item system where success can’t just be purchased. Players must play to earn DEs, and that puts a limit on how much crafting anyone can do. Sure, gold helps, and a player with a lot of gold (or RMAH $) can buy other great gear and thus increase their DE acquisition. But Demonic Essences do put a cap on any pay-to-win approach, since it’s impossible to simply charge 50,000 of them and craft all night.

    So what do you guys think about the overall DE drop rate, and is anyone arguing a balance point that’s not totally reflective of and beneficial to your current play style and economic strata?


    Demonic Essence drop rates should be:

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    1. I’m poor and self found. My limiting factor is gold when crafting, not DE. I am probably also in the minority.

      • Came here to post pretty much exactly this, leaving satisfied.

        I have probably hundreds of unused DEs now, since I accumulate enough gold for 1-2 crafts every play session, but probably 10-20 DEs.

      • Same here…I think my gold total is somewhere around 25-30 million. I don’t do much crafting but, being the pack rat that I am, I still scoop up any DE and TOS that drop.

      • Same here. Also, increase stack size.

      • I’ve been keeping mine in case they come up with a new use for it. I’ve got hundreds of them, and have used maybe 20, got equipment I liked, and now spend my gold on other things. NEW USE, not more or less.

    2. Make is scale. Generally people who play at higher MP probably aren’t limited by gold anyway, so tossing dozens at them seems fine. People at MP1 or lower, probably are fine with the low drops.

    3. I think it is fine since it keeps people playing and farming. If they made em too high people would start skipping them like they do rares and everyone would have a BIS crafted item. Especially in SC where having 100s of millions of gold is the norm and the cost of a craft is inconsequential.

    4. Drop rate is fine…I do wish they expanded the stack size up to 500 (or 1000!!) like the other crafting mats.

      • I can certainly agree with your second point(s). The fact that DEs are yellow in color also perplexes me. I guess we’ve all learned to watch for those, along with the (few?) other rare item types we pick up, but it still seems obviously they should be light blue like all the other crafting mats. And stack to 1000.

    5. I think they should call it Demon Essence because that denotes the essence of a demon, which sounds cool. Demonic Essence is simply an essence of questionable origin –a generic noun in context– that is demon-like– not cool.

    6. Low DE drop rates are not the main issue here…all the other BS constantly dropping not worth stop looting is…From whites to legendaries.

    7. I think the drop rate is fine. When I run out of DE, I don’t think “man i wish these dropped more often” I think “well, i’m an ass for not picking every single one up”.

      It is nice being required to put time into the game to earn DE. At least for now…

    8. “The key issue is the fact that DEs can’t be bought, sold, traded, or even given away. They therefore require play time, and while lots of gold can buy all the other mats, and uber gear that allows for faster killing, it still takes time to build up DEs, even on MP10. (In fact, DEs are faster farmed on lower MPs, since the monster hit points scale up much higher than the DE drop rates.)”

      No it isn’t. The core problem is that they’re supposed to reduce dependence on the auction house but really… they’re only a partial success at best.

      If you just play the game, not specifically farming for DEs you will acquire DEs faster than you acquire the gold for the 50-100k a pop crafts. You will perhaps be able to use 25-50% of the essences you acquire if you do nothing else with your gold.

      So how do you get the gold to even use all the essences you happen upon, much less if you start specifically farming for essences? Why, you get lucky sales on the AH. That’s the only way (other than credit cards… which also involve the AH, just the other AH).

      Conversely, if you are such a player in addition to not being limited by your gold supply at all you also need hundreds, thousands, or more attempts to get one decent item. The max farm rate is around 40/hour, and that’s with a top geared character doing VotA (on MP5, because efficiency). Someone with enough money to do thousands of crafts could play dozens of hours and get their crafts… or just use that money to directly buy what they want.

      The crafts are helpful to a point, it’s easy to get good shoulders as well as good bracers if you don’t need ias/ms. Amulets just seem a waste of resources to even attempt, as you can easily blow 10 mil and not even get a bifecta.

      But as is they manage to be too cheap, too expensive, too obtainable, and too unobtainable all at once to varying degrees for different people just because of the huge variance between people’s gold stacks.

      If I were to do it I’d do it like this:

      Current crafts as they are now, same cost.
      A second set of craft recipes, much more gold, but with significant quality weighting.
      A third set of craft recipes, crazy expensive (like millions, if not tens of millions per shot) but extreme quality weighting and junk mods like health globes and thorns cannot appear at all.

      That’s the only way you can even begin to make the system work for everyone.

    9. I’m happy with the drop rate, but I like some others above find myself gold limited. I have the DE but I can’t afford or don’t need to keep crafting right now. I’d love the option of transmuting DE into something else. Perhaps in to brimstones or some other crafting materials (something that isn’t BOA anymore so you can make some $$$ with some of the excess?)

      Also it makes no sense to only stack to 100, let them stack to 500 at least. My stash space is valueable!

    10. As someone who finds crafting the most boring aspect of the game and who sells the majority of crafting material I salvage, I hate the DEs. I’ve got about 400 of the bastards now and I cannot give them away. A larger stack of them would mean that I could keep them in case I want them later, or sell them if they later become sellable. And before you ask why do I bother picking them up, the answer is I’m a packrat.

    11. All crafting mats should stack more.
      I have 450DE, 700tears and it just takes space in my stash. I don’t have the heart to part with them and at the same time it just seems stupid that the stacks are limited to 100, 500 or whatever.

      I think the problem is with the drop rates on the pages of training. It’s too low.

    12. They should definitely stack to 1000 like other crafting materials, and I agree that they should be light blue as well. I have 100’s of DEs lying around because I simply pick them up much more frequently per session than I actually spend crafting anything. I keep picking them up – though not 100% of the time – for the same reasons a few others have mentioned: I expect (hope) that one day they will come up with at least another use for them and this way I’ll be ready.

    13. QUOTE

      They're about right.  I'd like to see much more drop at the higher MPs though, since those who play the high MP games can usually afford to craft.  Their drop rates should be the same or similar to the key drop rates.
      
      Also, for those who can't afford to craft and have am endless supply - make them vendor-able.  Give them a reasonable sell price (10-30k?) at vendors so those who could care less about crafting could put them to use.
      
      sent from my GalaxySIII
      
      While you're at it give ALL craft recipes a sell cost = 1 craft of that type so duplicate plans aren't worthless.

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