Datamined Reaper of Souls Info: Affix Hardcaps?


More datamined infos have surfaced from that pre-alpha version of Reaper of Souls. Bear in mind that all these are from a very early version of RoS and changes can and will be made between this and what we see in the game.

The most interesting details seem to show that the devs have come to agree with long time fan theorizing that a lack of hard caps or breakpoints on gear in Diablo 3 is a big reason the item system feels so boring. (Read all about Breakpoints in Diablo 2.) With no caps or diminishing returns on the best affixes in D3C — CC, CD, and IAS — MOAR in those fields is always the best strategy, hence every character wants the same few affixes on all of their gear.

D3 still needs more variety and utility from other affixes, and seems to be getting them in RoS, but putting diminishing returns or hard caps on some stats (D2 had both on most useful stats) seems like a reasonable way to promote affix diversity and to open up the item game since players won’t seek just the same few stats on every piece of gear.

  • DiabloWikiCritical Hit Chance – *You may have a maximum of +40.00% Critical Hit Chance from items.
  • DiabloWikiCritical Hit Damage – *You may have a maximum of +250.00% Critical Hit Damage from items.
  • DiabloWikiAttack Speed – *You may have a maximum of +40.00% Attack Speed from items.
  • DiabloWikiMovement Speed – *You may have a maximum of +25.00% movement speed from items
  • Block Chance – *You may have a maximum of 75.00% Block Chance.
  • DiabloWikiGold Find – *You may have a maximum of +300.00% Gold Find.
  • DiabloWikiMagic Find – *You may have a maximum of +300.00% Magic Find.
  • Magic Find – *This increase is diminished for rare and legendary and set items.
  • You can directly boost all but one of those fields in the DiabloWikiParagon 2.0 system to add more on top of your item bonuses. There are two values that really stand out: 1) DiabloWikiCritical hit Damage capped at just 250% (+another 50% from Paragon Points) would be huge drop for most characters (you can get more than that just on a Manticore, Skorn, or many 2H weapons today), and 2) Block Chance capped at 75%? That’s about 50% higher than anyone has now!

    Currently shields go up to 20% and can increase up to 8% more from a Block increase affix on the shield, but that’s far from a common bonus and the vast majority of top quality rare shields (these are much sought in the Hardcore Auction House) have 15-20% blocking. And that’s about all characters have, since other gear that adds blocking % is virtually non-existent in D3C.

    +Blocking chance was initially (in some dev interviews from Gamescom) said to be amongst the fields that you could boost in Paragon 2.0, but it’s not amongst the fields in the DiabloWikiDefensive Tab in the recent datamined info. So where else are players supposed to get that much blocking%? Do shields in RoS go much higher than the 20% cap we see in D3C? Will shield blocking bonuses be found on other pieces of armor?

    And is this a general indication of the increased importance RoS will place on a bit slower and more defensive play style, as Wyatt Cheng keeps warning telling us?

    Tagged As: | Categories: Datamining, Diablo 3, Diablo 3 Expansions, Items, Paragon

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    1. These caps look good overall (no idea on the blocking, but new gear I suppose…)

      I was hoping to see something to counterbalance all the high DPS gear we saw in the previews.

    2. It is worth noting that:
      – If it talks about +250% FROM GEAR, that means that the total maximum without paragon bonus is 350%, since 100% is the baseline now.
      – Similarly, the game starts at 5% crit chance when you are “naked”, so it is actuall 45% before paragon bonuses apply. Which is a reasonable enough number, imho.

      Crusader-only shields can have much higher baselines, although that would not solve the issue of shields being totally worthless (i.e. what do you do to the other current shield types in the game? Nothing? Or just increase the block percentages?)

      In theory, I would sacrifices 30-40k from my buffed 200k dps with my WD if I could have a 40%~ block shield equipped that gave me some interesting buffs to play with (on top of all res, vit and int, ofc :P), so they could just buff everything and give better/more affix ranges.

      Or alternatively, modify shield as its own category when you equip a gem. So then you can have powerful bonuses similar to helms/weapons.

    3. So there’s one area rares will thrive which is MF, since MF on legendary items will be reduced. Interesting.

      This is the best change in the expansion. Less emphasis on stacking DPS to the sky, more emphasis on finding ways to improve efficiency in more creative ways (skills, legendary item affects). Less need for HP bloat difficulty modes to offer challenge. The only downside is that players won’t get to see enjoy seeing BIG numbers anymore. 😛 A simple but effective change.

      I don’t think this will slow combat down since difficulties are being completely overhauled (bye bye MP10) so naturally they’ll consider what kind of DPS players will have and balance HP against that to a point where it feels good to gain the maximum amount of power. I think Blizzard still knows players like to mow down huge swaths of enemies. Then again, the game is slowing down no matter what because of the nerf to WW-barbs. 😛

    4. Caps seems like a very artificial way to promote more stat diversity.
      And very unlike a loot based game imo, to tell people they can’t go all-in on specific stats (even if it should be a really bad choice to go all-in).

      Crit etc should be made less interesting for 80% of the skills, rather than this.

    5. “2) Block Chance capped at 75%? That’s about 50% higher than anyone has now!”

      You are forgetting about stormshield, they can have up to 34% bas block rate and have a +9% bonus on them, so max is 43%.(http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/stormshield)

      Thought it says a lot about the usefulness of shields that many people even those who play hardcore don’t know that.

    6. heavy diminishing returns is more appropriate imo. hard caps pretty much kills it for me. for example instead of 40Ì caps, make diminishing returns start to become heavy after 30Ì stacked from gear and we would still be able to stack more but it would make other stat more appealing for dps at this points.

      thats being said, those who value cc so much can still stack maybe up to 50% from gear with almost maxed cc and be happy about it knowing theres no hard number that says, no stop at this value.

      its not so much about the dps limitation thats bothers me but more to the fact that i cant freely build my char anymore. anyone that wanna build high cc char will all look he same with lame 40Ì instead of the variation of maybe 35-50%.

      idk if its appropriate to compare these caps with the defensive stats thats is all resist and armor. we can see diversity of ranging of AR and armor among players and this should be the same for other statthat need to be controlled.

      ps : ms should go for diminishing returns too imo. hardcaps is stupid.

      • Far as I can tell, building a CC character isn’t really a conscious choice. Everyone does it because it helps you kill stuff faster. There is never a situation you wouldn’t want CC on your character. Presently, if someone has 35 CC, they just haven’t gotten lucky with their drops.

        • good diminishing return would make someone that have high cc not benefit much from it that the dps upgrade pretty much ignorable. we can see this trend on gearing for defense, at 500-600 all resist the defensive bonus from this stat pretty much have small enough benefit to creatively make a decision. for example,instead of adding more AR we can build around AS for more effectiveness of LoH. of course this totally depends on the devs to balance and decide the curve of diminishing return.

          it would be a shame when at the end every good built char look like this :

          40CC, 250CD and 40AS. this would be okay though if reaching caps is near impossible, meaning the max trifecta roll at lvl70 item is heavily nerfed.

          • I would prefer diminishing returns too, and it would work on MF%. But how would it work with things like CC%, CHD, GF%, AS%, +run%? Are you supposing they show us one number and use another one behind our backs? I don’t think you thought that one threw. You can not use diminishing returns, its illogical.

          • Ya except the part where all resist and armor have diminishing returns. Stacking one makes the other worth more, but does not diminish anything.

            If you do the math, the EHP of stacking all resist, for example, is a linear straight line. It appears it is diminishing because the damage reduction number grows slower – this is misleading as every point of damage reduction is worth more than the point before it. In other words, 5% damage reduction gains at 90% is worth 5 times that same damage reduction at 50%. (you are taking 50% less damage at 90%, while only taking 10% less damage at 50%)

    7. im ok with all, just not with ias, its anyway really low, making it even lower is a big no no, why is it such a problem to have more than 3.00 aps

    8. Also some ring that gives block, forgot the name. Plus Helm of command. Resulting in a fairly high block chance.

      75% block chance doesn’t seem 50% higher than people have now. More like 75% higher to be honest.

    9. Love these changes , Caps are good way to stop trifectas from being the top and only sought items.
      Now you can even use Shields with your 1hander and not worry about losing 150-210% crit dmg , it might even increase your damage and survivability.

      You can now get different stats everywhere to reach as close as possible to those caps , I think we will see lower numbers on item slots from each affix to make it harder to reach the caps.

      I would say this is a good move , but only when we get Beta with Inferno and level 70s can we tell if it is a good move or if they screwed up , hope they won’t make the RoS beta just the demo from gamescom or that would be a slap in the face to the community , we want to give feedback on Inferno and Endgame balance not some network testing like they did in D3C Beta.

      • Actually it would make sense to make it easier to reach the caps by increasing the maximum amount of CC/CD/AS on each item because if they make it “harder” then capping trifecta would be pointless in the first place. The whole point of capping the trifecta is to hit that cap so that we can focus on using other affixes and legendary’s where the trifecta would other wise dominate.

    10. Looks like Move Speed might be getting buffed. +25% from items, and then another 10% from Paragon Points. So it’s not all slower paced I guess.

      As an aside, am I the only one who actually looks forward to weekly maintenance due to these info. leaks? 😛

    11. “[…] as Wyatt Cheng keeps warning/telling us?”

      Us? More like our grand-children, if this is moving at the same speed as the “making Thorns useful” plans he’s been philosophizing about for over a year now.

    12. Good idea indeed but i suppose they will need to rework monster HP and damage (life steal nerf) because it would be unplayable with those changes.

    13. This and the AH change are two big changes that tackle two big issues on multiple levels with rippling effects. Legendary’s values will be much greater now. We essentially will hit these caps with our gear and then we can focus on more interesting affixes that change our game play in more interesting ways whether its the new ways they are changing Thorns,Health Globes, Radius yard increase, Life Regeneration, Life Steal, Reduce cool down, and what ever other new affixes. Those don’t even include the affixes legendary’s can include so putting an easy cap to hit on the trifecta we can then actually use these legendary’s they’re coming out with other wise the trifecta affix would dominate no matter how cool of an affix the legendary’s have.

    14. @ TheDestructor

      So there’s one area rares will thrive which is MF, since MF on legendary items will be reduced. Interesting.

      Um, what? No. It obviously means it works like D2 MF where it has full effect on magics, reduced effect on rares, and still reduced on set/legendaries. It doesn’t mean the higher quality items have less mf on them.

      For example it might be 300 mf = 300 mf for determining magics, 225 for rares, 150 for sets/legendaries.

    15. That wouldn’t change anything.

      Seems like their goal just is to reduce the gap between no/less mf and full mf. Since legendary droprates is all that really matters from MF anyway now.

    16. QUOTE

      Ya except the part where all resist and armor have diminishing returns.  Stacking one makes the other worth more, but does not diminish anything.  
      
      If you do the math, the EHP of stacking all resist, for example, is a linear straight line.  It appears it is diminishing because the damage reduction number grows slower - this is misleading as every point of damage reduction is worth more than the point before it.  In other words, 5% damage reduction gains at 90% is worth 5 times that same damage reduction at 50%. (you are taking 50% less damage at 90%, while only taking 10% less damage at 50%)

      Makes sense, but 5% damage reduction will always reduce the amount of damage you take by 5% its just at 90% that number is 50% of the remaining damage.

    17. Diminishing returns should exist for only Armor.

      Hard caps for anything % based and resistances.

      No diminishing/caps on primary/base stats.

      That is the easiest way of doing this, people can stack armor for more EHP or health itself, resistances can be capped so damage incoming can be normalized to ensure that you don’t die in 2 hits assuming you can get close to resistance cap and a good amount of armor and health.

      Damage needed caps as it allows diversity in gearing and each item can potentially be amazing for a build.

      Welcome to me saying this when D3 was released, sadly, people and developers are retarded and don’t understand to listen to players.

    18. Hopefully blocking can return to completely negating damage rather than just reducing it.

    19. Depends on whether this is just a way to facilitate ilvl63 gear becoming obsolete or it being a real change.

      Then stat availability and amount could be still an issue, with many stats being available on too many items and there being too many stats to look for, making the gearing puzzle game IMO more chaotic than it needs to be.

    20. That would be total dick move from Blizzard. Put on those caps and, all gear we players worked towards is useless and we are back to MPower 1-3 again. Plus there is no possibility of strenght, res making up for the loss of Crit damage.
      Simply put, anything beyond MP5 would be imposssible.

      • Only if you assume that they will leave monster damage/health unchanged. I’d say that seems pretty unlikely at this point.

      • I’ve seen data mine stuff where they are removing the MP10, it’s like 3 different difficulties now. I think the days of linear DPS race is behind us. Sure, there will be a max DPS and max challenge mode, but it will be much easier to reach, and the emphasis will now be on what else you do with your character in regards to legendary affixes/skills after reaching damage caps.

      • You do realize that all the gear you worked for in D3C will instantly be useless when the expansion is released regardless if there are caps or not?

        • Nah, I am pretty sure my WW barb would steamroll whole RoS content in matter of 4-5 hours. That is why they are nerfing what they can, because there are people that invested fair amount of time and are far beyond any point of balancing. If you steamroll MP8, how much challenge would RoS on MP1 pose to you?

        • That’s pretty much what I was thinking, there’s no point keeping any current item for they mystic to item craft because all the new gear will shit all over it anyhoo. The rat race starts from scratch.

    21. I like caps on these things. Lets say you get a new iLevel 70 trifecta gloves and 2 other rings or something and you’re a high enough paragon level to max out all the AS/CD/CC stats. Now you have every other gear slot open for cool stuff. Perhaps you use character specific skill buff on a weapon, offhand and helm now. Perhaps you go for torns damage on more of your free spots now and change your build around to that. Etc. More build diversity comes if you can get AS/CD/CC caps in only 3 ilevel70 slots because now you can do w/e on the other slots. (Ideally… ppl will probably go for higher vit/ress/main-stat/etc in practise making everything I said pointless and incorrect)

    22. I hate to be the guy to keep beating the console drum, but you have to remember again that items that were never viable before will be able to scale up and possibly used by players in the end game. There are Legendaries that currently exist with +Block % on random slots (Kortur’s Brace I think is a belt that comes to mind). so if shield base block % goes up plus these affixes showing up all over random gear slots, it may be “easy” to see why this new cap was put in place.

      It also makes me speculate whether stat points will do some additional things now… Wasn’t it Dex that controlled block % in D2? Hm…

    23. W/ or w/o this change, they should change CC and IAS to ratings like armor/resist, or more accurately, like their WoW equivalents. And crit damage needs a hard, hard cap, flat out. There’s no other way to deal w/ it. So far, so good on the mechanical changes, but still need to clean stuff up. Especially main stat side effects like armor and dodge.

    24. No hard caps. Hard caps are a cop-out because they can’t figure out how to make any other stat as important as a damage stat. The hard cap is basically throwing up a white flag to the trifecta.

      Any ability to manipulate magic find via gear or paragon levels should be removed entirely. The drop rate should be set near or at the highest players could push the magic find, and that’s that. Players and Developers alike can’t complain about D2’s FCR being opaque then doing some hidden diminishing returns on Magic Find again. That’s counterproductive. If they want players to find items at roughly the same rate, then just make it so.

      This whole expansion is looking like a haphazard submission by the out-of-ideas committee.

      • There is literally no way to make a utility or even fun but not damage increasing affix compete with the holy trifecta. If they didn’t put a cap in, they might as well not bother with making interesting legendary items in the first place, because the only ones getting used are the ones with CC/IAS/CD on them, or the ones that mathematically increase your damage better than the trifecta does. They’d be painting themselves into a corner and limiting the amount creativity they could have in designing new legendary items when every new affix has to beat out the trifecta.

        And there isn’t much you can do about this dynamic but introduce caps. Because this is how players inevitably view the game: Does this affix boost my damage/keep me from dying? Everything else is secondary.

        And making a whole new set of affixes that are better than trifecta only exacerbates the problem, because then we’re still stuck in the boring land of stacking as many of the best damage increasing affixes as you can and it’s back to being a straight numbers game instead of crazy fun items game.

    25. “Players and Developers alike can’t complain about D2?s FCR being opaque”

      Thats a new one for me, is that like the “Enigma issue”, what most of the D2 players heard just recently about?

      Or are we talking about something like Jay’s “Stay a while and listen” peeve being fixed by having to id stuff one by one with a cast time? 🙂

    26. Current items will be available for upgrades via mystic in expansion.

      In order to find the “good” items one needs to survive through the new end game implemented, so no, current top end items will not be junk as speculated.

    27. QUOTE

      There is literally no way to make a utility or even fun but not damage increasing affix compete with the holy trifecta. If they didn't put a cap in, they might as well not bother with making interesting legendary items in the first place, because the only ones getting used are the ones with CC/IAS/CD on them, or the ones that mathematically increase your damage better than the trifecta does. They'd be painting themselves into a corner and limiting the amount creativity they could have in designing new legendary items when every new affix has to beat out the trifecta. 
      
      And there isn't much you can do about this dynamic but introduce caps. Because this is how players inevitably view the game: Does this affix boost my damage/keep me from dying? Everything else is secondary.
      
      And making a whole new set of affixes that are better than trifecta only exacerbates the problem, because then we're still stuck in the boring land of stacking as many of the best damage increasing affixes as you can and it's back to being a straight numbers game instead of crazy fun items game.

      No.
      The issue here isn’t that some dps stats are mathematically better than other dps stats.

      The problem is, it is the same best stats for all builds.
      Trifecta is just fine… if it was only the best dps stats for maybe 20% of the good builds.

      I agree that making survival or utility stats compete with dps stats is much more challenging though. Only real solutions there are
      1) Blur the lines between dps and non-dps stats. What if resistances etc. greatly increased the dmg on some skills?
      2) Greatly increase the penalty for dying, so people will have to focus more on survival if they want to succeed.

    28. “The problem is, it is the same best stats for all builds. Trifecta is just fine… if it was only the best dps stats for maybe 20% of the high-end builds.”

      I’m not sure what you mean here. I’d need some examples of how you would handle this.

      “I agree that making survival or utility stats compete with dps stats is much more challenging though. Only real solutions there are
      1) Blur the lines between dps and non-dps stats. What if resistances etc. greatly increased the dmg on some skills?
      2) Greatly increase the penalty for dying, so people will have to focus more on survival if they want to succeed.”

      I think this kind of solution gets very messy when you start to consider things like “Gold rains from the sky after a massacre bonus” or “The world map is always revealed.” It’s hard to tie that to anything or even compare it. I don’t want to give up thousands of DPS just so I can have gold rain from the sky, however, if a cap forced me to make a choice, I would probably wear it because it would make the game more interesting, if only slightly.

    29. We’ve mentioned this in other threads, but examples are simple – just replace certain effects with other effects. As I said in another thread:

      Wizard passive, “lolFIRE!” – Your critical hits with fire spells do no additional damage but instead cause all enemies in a 40 yard radius to burn for X00% of the fire damage dealt over 2 seconds. Instantly scales with CC but not at all with CD. You can pretty much create infinite things that work this way, benefiting only some stat agglomerations but not others, and let people go to town.

      I guess, put another way, trifecta is good because pretty much all skills (there are a few exceptions) benefit from trifecta stats more or less evenly, and even if it isn’t even, more is generally better rather than irrelevant. But start making some things irrelevant, while making other things matter a whole bunch, and you’ve got people not wanting a standard set of affixes on their gear anymore, as you’ll have people making “builds that work on crit” or “builds that work on crit damage” or “builds that work on fire resist” or what have you.

    30. I think this sucks. Can I be that blunt on this forum? If you’re self found, the way I have been for a long time, and you’re lucky enough, grind enough, to finally make it “over” their would-be caps, then you’re getting penalized. I vote no.

    31. QUOTE

      I think this kind of solution gets very messy when you start to consider things like "Gold rains from the sky after a massacre bonus" or "The world map is always revealed." It's hard to tie that to anything or even compare it. I don't want to give up thousands of DPS just so I can have gold rain from the sky, however, if a cap forced me to make a choice, I would probably wear it because it would make the game more interesting, if only slightly.
      Even with caps, you will now have to compare 'Gold rains from the sky' with other things like 'get an extra hydra'. Weird/fun effects will always lose out compared to nearly anything else in a min/max comparison. It is okay to have some legendary effects that are not for min/maxing, as long as it isnt all the effects (since people just ignore legendaries then).
      
      As for the diversification of stats, I'll quote my own response to what Ivan E wrote.
      
      
      I'd  throw in '
      CC stat is worth 20% more crit chance 
      (40% CC from items = 48%, ignoring the cap)
      . Dmg Radius  increase with pickup radius. The dmg dealt scales with dex
      ' or something like that as well. Might be too much for one skill, but hey, just as an example...
      
      How about another passive, or maybe a castable debuff/rune effect:
       
      Die in a Fire: 'Fire resist decreases 
      (not including what is gained from All resist)
       decreases enemy fire resistance
      '. 
      
      Spectral Blizzard (rune): 
      Enemies caught in your Spectral Blizzard  takes XX% extra DoT dmg from  for 4 seconds.  Enemies caught in the Blizzard slowed by 60% no matter the dmg type.
        % dmg is s scaling with strength. Which Dmg type is increased depends  on your current weapon dmg type. %slow is scaling with frost resist.
      
      Throw in Liquefy Meteor as your actual dmg skill for example - since all  the others above are just dmg increasers. It already benefits from  crit, it has extra DoT dmg. Meteor is a "heavy" spell thematically.  Maybe this particular Meteor rune could scale with str too.
      
      Trying to combine these skills that obviously benefit each other would  suddenly make you interested in crit chance, dex, str, fire resist and  pick up radius for increasing your DPS. Oh, and you would want your  weapon to deal fire dmg - maybe something that was changeable through  gems or the Mystic. 
      Some APoC Attack Speed in interaction would still be beneficial. 
      Depending on your other skill choices, you might be uninterested in crit dmg and int.
      
      

    32. QUOTE

      Current items can be upgraded via mystic in RoS.
      
      In order to find the "good" items one needs to survive through the new end game modes implemented.
      
      So NO, current top end items will not be junk as speculated. You will definitely need decent gear to pull through Act 5 and the new modes implemented to get the improved items. 
      
      In fact when expansion just hit, top end gear will be high in demand and prices will spike because players will be rushing to plow through the highest new modes to get the best loot. 
      
      You must be dreaming if you think new godly loot will fall down like rain.
      
      
      4787

      I was :'(

    33. Current items won’t be junk right away, but their value will diminish fast after patch 2.0. If loot 2.0 doesn’t replace current items, level 70 items will after RoS is released.

    34. A block cap is pretty silly considering right now blocking has very little affect at mitigating damage in general. The hardest hitting things in the game are elemental affixes which aren’t blockable anyway. Once you reach a certain threshold of all resist/armor/vitality there’s no real point stacking block.

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